Football league propose 5 professional leagues of 20 teams

[redcityman]

9 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interested to know why so many are against Celtic and Rangers joining? It would have a terrible impact on Scottish football but I doubt that's the reason.

They are to two huge clubs that would really add something to the league - long trips for some, yes, but no further for northern teams than a trip to London and not much worse for us than visiting Newcastle.

Personally I would happily see them integrated, starting at League One level, and would look forward to potential trips there in the future.

Do you honestly think that we'd play either of those two clubs more than twice if that were to happen, given the fan base of both clubs I for one doubt they'd stay more than a season or two at most in each division before reaching top flight again, not much worse than travelling to newcastle! Only another 100 miles.

So we may get a large crowd for a league match against Scotland's finest and soon after no doubt the loss of another two places in the top flight lost to two team who are only here for the money, whoppee doo. 

[pongo88]

31 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interested to know why so many are against Celtic and Rangers joining? It would have a terrible impact on Scottish football but I doubt that's the reason.

They are to two huge clubs that would really add something to the league - long trips for some, yes, but no further for northern teams than a trip to London and not much worse for us than visiting Newcastle.

Personally I would happily see them integrated, starting at League One level, and would look forward to potential trips there in the future.

I agree with your logic in the second paragraph but it's a "no" for me. Being teams with a big fan base,  the extra TV money they would receive would enable them to quickly reach the top levels of the Premiership and be successful in English cup competitions.  This would make it more difficult for smaller English Premiership teams to be successful and / or avoid relegation. 

In addition, the Scotish Nationalists are still banging on about independence, and how awful those nasty people in England are. So why should English clubs and their supporters do anything to help Scotland?  Can you imagine the reaction from Scotland if an English club said please let us join you so that we can earn meggabucks at the expense of some of your Scottish clubs?

(Berwick Rangers don't count as they are not more than a big village team)

[Hello]

I'm not as against it. Would potentially mean less meaningless mid-table games at the end of the season.  The Championship would be even more competitive and if you are in the bottom divisions some of the games you lose in the league appear to be being made up in the Football League Trophy.

a 600 mile to Hartlepool on a Tuesday night or Carlisle to Plymouth benefits who exactly?

 

65 of the 72 have to vote for it so either the chances are slim or the clubs will actually think it will benefit them

[Hello]

45 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

thats why it won't go through, lesser clubs will miss the ticket revenue of a midweek game

that's not exactly right though as some games will be made up from the revamped FLT games and they will have to be played mid week as they are now surely

[ChippenhamRed]

28 minutes ago, redcityman said:

Do you honestly think that we'd play either of those two clubs more than twice if that were to happen, given the fan base of both clubs I for one doubt they'd stay more than a season or two at most in each division before reaching top flight again, not much worse than travelling to newcastle! Only another 100 miles.

So we may get a large crowd for a league match against Scotland's finest and soon after no doubt the loss of another two places in the top flight lost to two team who are only here for the money, whoppee doo. 

Bristol to Newcastle - 297 miles

Bristol to Glasgow - 371 miles.

74 miles further, another hour or so on the motorway. So yes, not that much further. But that's not really the point.

I didn't say we would play them more than twice but I take a broader view. I would like to see two big and historic clubs competing in our league structure. I would also argue that being a club with large attendances brings no guarantees of success in the modern era. Just look at Leeds, Newcastle and, in fact, Rangers themselves.

As for "only here for the money", I suspect their fans would see it as much more than just money. They would have meaningful fixtures on a far more regular basis.

[ChippenhamRed]

33 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with your logic in the second paragraph but it's a "no" for me. Being teams with a big fan base,  the extra TV money they would receive would enable them to quickly reach the top levels of the Premiership and be successful in English cup competitions.  This would make it more difficult for smaller English Premiership teams to be successful and / or avoid relegation. 

In addition, the Scotish Nationalists are still banging on about independence, and how awful those nasty people in England are. So why should English clubs and their supporters do anything to help Scotland?  Can you imagine the reaction from Scotland if an English club said please let us join you so that we can earn meggabucks at the expense of some of your Scottish clubs?

(Berwick Rangers don't count as they are not more than a big village team)

Sorry but I don't buy the Scottish nationalist argument at all. The precedent has already been set with Welsh clubs competing in the English leagues. Wales also has its own parliament. I see no difference.

[CyderInACan]

8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sorry but I don't buy the Scottish nationalist argument at all. The precedent has already been set with Welsh clubs competing in the English leagues. Wales also has its own parliament. I see no difference.

But  there's no compelling movement towards Welsh independence is there. And it's an Assembly, not a Parliament. 

[Taylor10]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Leave it alone.

Always good to try and look to improve but the football league is fine as it is and one of the strengths of football in this country. 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Interested to know why so many are against Celtic and Rangers joining? It would have a terrible impact on Scottish football but I doubt that's the reason.

They are to two huge clubs that would really add something to the league - long trips for some, yes, but no further for northern teams than a trip to London and not much worse for us than visiting Newcastle.

Personally I would happily see them integrated, starting at League One level, and would look forward to potential trips there in the future.

no no no no,

If celtic and rangers want to join the english leagues they have to start at the bottom of the pile or the same league hereford/wimbledon started in at the very least

[Monkeh]

31 minutes ago, Hello said:

that's not exactly right though as some games will be made up from the revamped FLT games and they will have to be played mid week as they are now surely

but Peter, look at the crowds for those FLT games, your mob struggle to get to 2k and we've got as low as 5k to those games, its not worth it at all

[Barrs Court Red]

Scottish clubs won't be joining, no danger of that.

B teams from the Prem are a real danger though. I wonder isn't there will now be a stricter criteria for league membership, making it harder for the additional 8 clubs to be made up from the non-league.

 

[Monkeh]

12 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sorry but I don't buy the Scottish nationalist argument at all. The precedent has already been set with Welsh clubs competing in the English leagues. Wales also has its own parliament. I see no difference.

yes it is, Wales don't want to leave the uk scotland does, wales while having their own parlament is still ruled by west minster thats what scotland want rid of,

[Hello]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

but Peter, look at the crowds for those FLT games, your mob struggle to get to 2k and we've got as low as 5k to those games, its not worth it at all

yeah but if people are bothered about the potential loss of league games, why not turn up for the cup games?

you can't argue about having less games and not turn up to the ones you have surely?

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Hello said:

yeah but if people are bothered about the potential loss of league games, why not turn up for the cup games?

you can't argue about having less games and not turn up to the ones you have surely?

if cup games were covered by season tickets more would turn up, but for 99% of clubs they aren't, 

With less games prices won't drop they will stay the same at the very least meaning you are paying more for the same product

[Hello]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

if cup games were covered by season tickets more would turn up, but for 99% of clubs they aren't, 

With less games prices won't drop they will stay the same at the very least meaning you are paying more for the same product

depending on the format of the FLT, perhaps clubs could include the 2 or 3 games in their season ticket.

 

if the games don't generate that much anyway.

 

All depends on the details of the plans, but I am not totally against it. does 15th v 14th at the end of the season generate that great a crowd and make money?

 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

16 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

But  there's no compelling movement towards Welsh independence is there. And it's an Assembly, not a Parliament. 

Assembly, Parliament, call it what you want, it's still devolved government.

11 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

yes it is, Wales don't want to leave the uk scotland does, wales while having their own parlament is still ruled by west minster thats what scotland want rid of,

No, Scotland does not want to leave.  Scotland voted on independence only last year and chose to stay.  So, a minority - albeit a large one - want independence. 

The Welsh Assembly includes a significant number of Plaid Cymru members, so there is also a minority of Welsh people who want independence.

So I don't see how the independence issue is of any relevance at all when you cannot make any formal distinction between the two countries.  It is besides the point.

[pongo88]

35 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sorry but I don't buy the Scottish nationalist argument at all. The precedent has already been set with Welsh clubs competing in the English leagues. Wales also has its own parliament. I see no difference.

The difference is the Welch teams such as Swansea are already playing in English leagues. Celtic and Rangers want to join English leagues for only one reason - money. As I said, can you imagine the reaction in Scotland if an English club wanted to join a Scottish league purely to make money at the expense of Scottish clubs?

[Blagdon red]

There's a very short online survey on this from AL3 (Against League 3):

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1SEBo9t5u4p-v8UMUmhpdR4WgHwbuZnCcSpE5s8oHtCQ/viewform

[Monkeh]

24 minutes ago, Hello said:

depending on the format of the FLT, perhaps clubs could include the 2 or 3 games in their season ticket.

 

if the games don't generate that much anyway.

 

All depends on the details of the plans, but I am not totally against it. does 15th v 14th at the end of the season generate that great a crowd and make money?

 

 

18th vs 19th generated a crowd of 15754 ( a sell out) this season so yes

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

There's a very short online survey on this from AL3 (Against League 3):

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1SEBo9t5u4p-v8UMUmhpdR4WgHwbuZnCcSpE5s8oHtCQ/viewform

doesnt work mate

[Blagdon red]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

doesnt work mate

Try linking from here:

(The previous link probably didn't work, as I'd already completed the survey and I expect it only allows one response from each IP address)

[Monkeh]

31 minutes ago, Hello said:

 

[Monkeh]

thats better balgdon

[Dave]

The financial arguments here appear very weak. 4 less home games, so are season tickets reduced in price by about 15%, thus meaning players wages being reduced by about 15%.

or do season tickets remain the same price thus increasing cost per game, so players wages can remain the same. However, this may reduce the number of people buying a season ticket, as less value for money.

City are just about to increase the revenue generating capacity of Ashton Gate, through their ground redevelopments. This proposal will reduce the matchday revenues by about 15%.

Remember a current Championship Club are guaranteed no home cup matches.

Also, some of the best atmospheres at Ashton Gate are for night games, so a reduction in these will be sad, and this sudden concern about fans having to travel will disappear when SKY are trying to find something to show on a Wednesday night.

So I would vote no, and I think most of the Clubs will as well.

[phantom]

14 hours ago, Monkeh said:

its a prem idea and a way to get b teams in through the back door,

some of it has merit I'll admit but i'm really not keen on the structure

Premier league have stated they have had no involvement in this and accept these discussions will take place without any input from themselves

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

14 hours ago, Doozerchris said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the league structure as it is, it really makes my piss boil that some clueless nobody wants to try and make themselves look important.  I like midweek games , i like the Saturday,  Tuesday,  Saturday of the championship. ..Dear Football league,   leave it the **** alone 

 

Agree, just change for change sake. leave it alone, nothing wrong with the present system. In fact, in effect we have a five tier system already,  as national league winners get auto promotion to the FL.

[Chris]

10 minutes ago, phantom said:

Premier league have stated they have had no involvement in this and accept these discussions will take place without any input from themselves

Quote from the Telegraph:

"The plans unveiled were drawn up following talks between FA chief executive Martin Glenn, Premier League executive chairman Richard Scudamore and Football League chief executive Shaun Harvey."

So you are correct in saying no Prem teams, but I'm sure our own Mr. Scudamore knows what they want and is representing that in discussions!

[ChippenhamRed]

44 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The difference is the Welch teams such as Swansea are already playing in English leagues. Celtic and Rangers want to join English leagues for only one reason - money. As I said, can you imagine the reaction in Scotland if an English club wanted to join a Scottish league purely to make money at the expense of Scottish clubs?

The problem with your argument is that Celtic and Rangers playing in the English leagues would be far more damaging to Scottish football than it would the English game.  In fact overall I would say it would benefit the English game to have them here.  Certainly you could expect big crowds at Ashton Gate for both sides, for example.

I would also suggest the Welsh clubs joined us in the first place was for much the same reasons.  "They're already here" isn't an argument against including Scottish teams.

[Barrs Court Red]

13 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The problem with your argument is that Celtic and Rangers playing in the English leagues would be far more damaging to Scottish football than it would the English game.  In fact overall I would say it would benefit the English game to have them here.  Certainly you could expect big crowds at Ashton Gate for both sides, for example.

I would also suggest the Welsh clubs joined us in the first place was for much the same reasons.  "They're already here" isn't an argument against including Scottish teams.

There wasn't a Welsh league when they joined was there? It makes a huge difference.

[Roadrunner]

Premier B teams to join

A winters break

No FA Cup replays

Move FA Cup to mid week games

No league mid week games

Less games.

NO.NO.NO.NO.NO.NO.

If that want to improve it go back to a Div 1 North and South.

Less travelling for fans and teams = bigger crowds.