cidered abroad Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Below are copies of emails to and from the EFL about the allocation of a referee from Hartlepool, just under thirty miles from Newcastle for the match. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From:Sent: 21 August 2016 13:01To: Enquiries Subject: Referee Bristol City v Newcastle 20 August 2016 How can the choice of a referee from Hartlepool, which is thirty miles from Newcastle-upon-Tyne be considered as impartial / neutral? The fact that I think he was poor at his job is irrelevant. So will a referee from Bath be the match official when Bristol City play the return fixture at St James Park? Regards, ST holder at BCFC for 66 years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Enquiries <enquiries@efl.com>To: Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 11:14 AMSubject: RE: Referee Bristol City v Newcastle 20 August 2016 Hi, Thank you for your email. All referees declare whether they have any interest in any EFL teams (such as ever holding a season ticket for example) and as a result are excluded from refereeing those clubs. Referees in the modern game are scrutinised more closely than ever before to ensure integrity is maintained. Some referees do reside and officiate within the same or nearby county, but this can still often mean a trip of significant distance to a particular stadium/town/city. It would be impractical to ask all referees to travel large distances to officiate around the country. Again, appointments are scheduled based on practicalities and with personal declarations borne in mind. Ultimately EFL referees are appointed based on integrity and carry out their duties as per the rules and their training. We trust this answers your query. Thank you for contacting the EFL. Regards, Jessica Crook Supporter Services Department EFL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Jessica, Travel long distances? This was not a Newcastle home game, it was played in Bristol. So you allocated him to this match, knowing that he is the second farthest EFL Championship referee from Bristol. This gave him a 550 mile round trip when surely, and to eliminate any doubt whatsoever as to his neutrality, another referee more suitably located should have been allocated to this match. You, the EFL, clearly do not follow UEFA actions in allocating referees; for example, Mark Clattenburg would NOT have refereed this summer's European Nations Final if Wales had won through to it! Mark Clattenburg is not Welsh is he? A bit like neighbouring countries voting for each other in the Eurovision Song Contest? As I said, I and many near me in the stadium were not impressed at all with the standard of his refereeing. When someone said he came from Hartlepool, the fans could hardly believe it. To many of the Bristol crowd, Hartlepool would seem to be too close to Newcastle for comfort. I presume that for the return fixture at St James Park, the referee allocated will be either of those from Wiltshire or Hampshire, the most southerly and westerly counties of referees that are on the aforementioned list. Referees have a thankless task to perform but you, the EFL, have laid yourselves wide open for criticism on this one. Regards ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I deliberately did not raise any points from the game as these are matters of opinion. Just stuck to facts. The fact that I thought he "favoured" Newcastle is as I said irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 It's a small country with limited referees. He may have been poor but I'm sure the fact his house is near Newcastle didn't make a difference. In fact that's quite an accusation to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 No, I did not accuse him of anything. Just pointed out to EFL that having a ref from Newcastle's doorstep for a game at the other end of the country is not very bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Here is the list of referees for the Championship. Plenty more suitably placed for that game. Select Group 2 RefereesADCOCK, JG (James) – Nottinghamshire BANKES, P (Peter) - Merseyside BOND, D (Darren) - Lancashire COOTE, D (David) – West Yorkshire DAVIES, A (Andy) - Hampshire DUNCAN, S (Scott) - Northumberland ELTRINGHAM, G (Geoff) – Tyne & Wear HOOPER, SA (Simon) – Wiltshire HARRINGTON, T (Tony) - Cleveland KAVANAGH, (Chris) - Lancashire LANGFORD, O (Oliver) – West Midlands LININGTON, JJ (James) – Isle of Wight MADLEY, AJ (Andy) – West Yorkshire MARTIN, S (Stephen) - Staffordshire ROBINSON, T (Tim) – West Sussex SIMPSON, J (Jeremy) – Lancashire STROUD, KP (Keith) – Hampshire WOOLMER, KA (Andy) - NorthamptonshireRead more at http://www.efl.com/global/matchofficialslist.aspx#C2LPvd3dgE1FQqy5.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 23, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Surely the only issue is if he supports either Newcastle or dislikes City? If the EFL want to pee their money away on ridiculous expenses that is up to them - but it may be cheaper to fly him down then someone else to travel from another part of the country. We often have Ron Ganfield running the line for us, he lives in Weston, but has no interest in City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Last season, they removed Kevin Fried from the Leicester v Spurs game just because he lives in the Leicestershire area......and he is a declared Bristol City Fan. Should the same rule not have applied for our game on Saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 23, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, RedRaw said: Last season, they removed Kevin Fried from the Leicester v Spurs game just because he lives in the Leicestershire area......and he is a declared Bristol City Fan. Should the same rule not have applied for our game on Saturday? Interesting but expect the PL are a bit more "on the ball" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Living 30 miles away is more likely to create a negative bias for Newcastle, in the same way a referee from Swindon is less likely to favour City despite the relative closeness to us. I am sure if anybody from the club had any concerns they would have been raised by now, not sure its necessary for a fan to hassle the customer service girl at the EFL about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, Buckeyed said: Living 30 miles away is more likely to create a negative bias for Newcastle, in the same way a referee from Swindon is less likely to favour City despite the relative closeness to us. I am sure if anybody from the club had any concerns they would have been raised by now, not sure its necessary for a fan to hassle the customer service girl at the EFL about it. I am sure its very necessary for someone to question this appointment, surely being from the northeast he will know these players quite well as they will be on his local TV nearly everyday. I am not saying he was directly bias but surely he could have been subconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 48 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Here is the list of referees for the Championship. Plenty more suitably placed for that game. Select Group 2 RefereesADCOCK, JG (James) – Nottinghamshire BANKES, P (Peter) - Merseyside BOND, D (Darren) - Lancashire COOTE, D (David) – West Yorkshire DAVIES, A (Andy) - Hampshire DUNCAN, S (Scott) - Northumberland ELTRINGHAM, G (Geoff) – Tyne & Wear HOOPER, SA (Simon) – Wiltshire HARRINGTON, T (Tony) - Cleveland KAVANAGH, (Chris) - Lancashire LANGFORD, O (Oliver) – West Midlands LININGTON, JJ (James) – Isle of Wight MADLEY, AJ (Andy) – West Yorkshire MARTIN, S (Stephen) - Staffordshire ROBINSON, T (Tim) – West Sussex SIMPSON, J (Jeremy) – Lancashire STROUD, KP (Keith) – Hampshire WOOLMER, KA (Andy) - NorthamptonshireRead more at http://www.efl.com/global/matchofficialslist.aspx#C2LPvd3dgE1FQqy5.99 In fact, from that list, he's the least suited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingcider Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, RumRed said: It's a small country with limited referees. He may have been poor but I'm sure the fact his house is near Newcastle didn't make a difference. In fact that's quite an accusation to make. How do you know it did not make a difference ? Pure conjecture. Living up there he could be influenced by family,friends etc. In my opinion it was a daft appointment as it leaves him and the E F L open to criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 What a load of balls. If you wish to make a valid complaint which questions the professional referee's integrity then do it properly and with evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 I don't think it matters where he comes from, any ref would've probably been in favour of Newcastle as they are a big club in this league. I'm sure the Villa will get the rub of the green over us as well. Big clubs always do, we've seen it all before... Although looking at the referees list, he probably is one of the least suited. I can see why the OP raised the point with the EFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky89 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Apparently he travelled with Newcastle due to the distance . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Have to say this looks like sour grapes. There were important decisions he made that could have gone our way, but that is always the case. Refs do have tough jobs, we have ones that have good games and ones that have bad games, always have, always will. If he did travel with the Newcastle team, I have to say I think that is a mistake in judgement, as much for how it looks as anything. It is a huge leap to suggest however that a ref is deliberately biased to one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 23, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, RumRed said: What a load of balls. If you wish to make a valid complaint which questions the professional referee's integrity then do it properly and with evidence. Completely agree, this is getting a bit embarrassing. It's like an opposition supporter saying we had an advantage if there was an official from Bath. Could be a city / Rovers fan, or have no interest in either. 1 hour ago, Dark Wood Covert said: I can see why the OP raised the point with the EFL Is it really the place for a supporter to raise this? Am 100% sure if either club had any concerns they would have raised it as soon as he was appointed. 51 minutes ago, cityexile said: If he did travel with the Newcastle team, I have to say I think that is a mistake in judgement, as much for how it looks as anything. This has to be absolute nonsense, Newcastle would no doubt have flown down at least on Friday, can't believe a referee would ever do that. There is absolutely no way a referee would ever travel on a team coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, phantom said: Completely agree, this is getting a bit embarrassing. It's like an opposition supporter saying we had an advantage if there was an official from Bath. Could be a city / Rovers fan, or have no interest in either. Is it really the place for a supporter to raise this? Am 100% sure if either club had any concerns they would have raised it as soon as he was appointed. This has to be absolute nonsense, Newcastle would no doubt have flown down at least on Friday, can't believe a referee would ever do that. There is absolutely no way a referee would ever travel on a team coach In the end its up to that supporter if he/she wants to vent their feelings or send an email, personally wouldn't do it myself as regardless the result stands and move on, each to their own I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Clarky89 said: Apparently he travelled with Newcastle due to the distance . . . . Utter bullshit mate Think you will find league rules state Referees and assistants have to travel to and from the ground together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 23, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said: In the end its up to that supporter if he/she wants to vent their feelings or send an email, personally wouldn't do it myself as regardless the result stands and move on, each to their own I suppose Just imagine their inbox on a Monday morning if every supporter was "venting their feelings" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 33 minutes ago, phantom said: This has to be absolute nonsense, Newcastle would no doubt have flown down at least on Friday, can't believe a referee would ever do that. There is absolutely no way a referee would ever travel on a team coach Newcastle flew down on Friday night, as per the Twitter account of one of their players (Mbemba, the CB). I have no idea how the ref travelled but seeing as he had a huge journey and Easyjet flights are pretty cheap it would not surprise me to find he was on the same flight. I do find his selection for our game totally baffling, Newcastle's official website says he regularly referees their reserves because of his proximity to them and in his entire league career he has never previously refereed a match involving a side from the North East. Whether through subconscious bias due to them being an ex Prem team or not in my opinion he did not referee the game the same way for both sides.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southmead Red Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, RedRaw said: Last season, they removed Kevin Fried from the Leicester v Spurs game just because he lives in the Leicestershire area......and he is a declared Bristol City Fan. Should the same rule not have applied for our game on Saturday? In 2007, Kevin Friend refereed us at Wolves!!! He was, I thought, biased towards Wolves! We drew 1-1, but being there, it was not obvious he was a fan of ours! Maybe trying to hard to please the people that knew! The game that forced Johnson (thankfully not) to show his a** in Burtons window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Agree it doesn't make sense to appoint a ref with a longer distance to travel, as stated in the EFL reply. And I agree the ref was bad. But, can we please stop questioning the integrity of the ref. I'm sure if he felt it to be a conflict of interest he would inform the football league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 They used to not allocate too `local` refs to high profile/derby games in case disgruntled `fans` took it on themselves to put their windows in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Andy082005 said: Utter bullshit mate Think you will find league rules state Referees and assistants have to travel to and from the ground together. How does that work with a referee from Hartlepool (Tony Harrington), an assistant from Kent (Darren Blunden), an assistant from Nottinghamshire (Mark Jones) and a fourth official from Worcestershire (John Law)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sheene Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Andy082005 said: Utter bullshit mate Think you will find league rules state Referees and assistants have to travel to and from the ground together. Don't think so. All officials travel separately to either the ground in the football league or a nearby hotel in the premier league where they are collected and driven to the ground. The reason for this is because if they travelled together and they were involved in an accident or their car broke down we wouldn't get any officials. If they travel separately and one has a problem the other three still cover the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 minute ago, View from the Dolman said: How does that work with a referee from Hartlepool (Tony Harrington), an assistant from Kent (Darren Blunden), an assistant from Nottinghamshire (Mark Jones) and a fourth official from Worcestershire (John Law)? Im fairly certain they get put up the night before in a hotel A ref a year ago got fined and suspended for something like 2 weeks, as he made his own way back after a game as he went to a concert or a show or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Barry Sheene said: Don't think so. All officials travel separately to either the ground in the football league or a nearby hotel in the premier league where they are collected and driven to the ground. The reason for this is because if they travelled together and they were involved in an accident or their car broke down we wouldn't get any officials. If they travel separately and one has a problem the other three still cover the game Yeah I just posted they all get put up in a hotel and hav to travel to the ground together. There is no way a referee would travel down with the club of one of the teams he was refereeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sheene Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Andy082005 said: Yeah I just posted they all get put up in a hotel and hav to travel to the ground together. There is no way a referee would travel down with the club of one of the teams he was refereeing. You're correct Andy that no referee would travel with a football team that they are about referee . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Andy082005 said: Im fairly certain they get put up the night before in a hotel A ref a year ago got fined and suspended for something like 2 weeks, as he made his own way back after a game as he went to a concert or a show or something. Correct. Mark Clattenburg - Eddie Sheeran concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Hartlepool is closer to Middlesbrough. He's much more likely to be a Boro fan than have any interest in Newcastle. Smoggies hate Geordies (and vice versa). It's like saying a ref from Swindon would be biased towards us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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