England squad...

[Loco Rojo]

Same squad (majority), different manager, same predictable results -strong qualification, bottling when it matters.

Time to start looking for the next England manager.

Actually, thinking about it, instead of hiring endless England managers who pick the same bunch of over hyped turds, couldn't they just employ a robot and a clever algorithm to pick the same squad? Save a lot of money when the predictable sacking looms.

[I am the mole]

43 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

Same squad (majority), different manager, same predictable results -strong qualification, bottling when it matters.

Time to start looking for the next England manager.

Actually, thinking about it, instead of hiring endless England managers who pick the same bunch of over hyped turds, couldn't they just employ a robot and a clever algorithm to pick the same squad? Save a lot of money when the predictable sacking looms.

Who else is there to pick?

we haven't got a lot to choose from we been shafted by the fa and their lack of a plan from grass roots up! 

 

[Loco Rojo]

16 minutes ago, I am the mole said:

Who else is there to pick?

we haven't got a lot to choose from we been shafted by the fa and their lack of a plan from grass roots up! 

 

You make a good point but I wonder if anyone would ever take a gamble, make a serious point of intent and promote a large number of the under 21's. 

I know this would be a massive gamble but it's almost worth wiping the slate clean of the usual predictable squad that time and again demonstrate how poor they are when it matters. 

The other problem the FA need to sort out is the culture within football that there are no consequences for failure anymore. There doesn't seem to be any real pride in wearing the shirt anymore.

[Rob k]

8 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sorry but in the age of the £300,000 a week footballer a rallying cry like this doesn't cut the mustard with me any more. Pride is a two way street and until I see these overpaid prima donnas showing the same sort of "pride" you are asking us to show, I will struggle to get excited about it.

Frankly the last tournament exit felt like a breaking point for me.

Why's it always got to come down to money?

[Rob k]

5 minutes ago, cynic said:

Its not all about money, but that is a part of the problem and may well be at the root of it.

When you see egotistical thick heads like Joe Hart beating his chest and screaming out the national anthem for the benefit of those watching him rather than focusing on the game ahead (there is no way that he prepares for games properly), and when you see the disgraceful lack of commitment showed by multi-millionaires against lesser players who are genuinely proud to represent their country and show the required commitment to win a game, then it becomes very difficult to find any empathy and subsequent support for these distant players who seem more committed to promoting hair products and the like and enhancing their profiles than representing their country. Some are more interested in pushing videos of their new car or their mansion on social media 24 hours after getting back from a tournament where they let everyone down.

That doesn't apply to all of them of course but against a team like Iceland who were obviously bursting with pride at representing their country, there were several who let this country down and are now in the next squad to do it all over again. Rewarding failure and lack of commitment in representing my country doesn't sit well with me and some players needed to be dropped from representing England again and some younger, hungrier, players selected in their place.

That hasn't happened and the only thing that has changed is the name of the manager and he's now proven to me that he is just as weak and clueless as some of those before him and the only thing that will provoke real change is if we fail to qualify for the next crooked tournament and/or the crooked one after that. 

 

 

Well I'm fairly sure that there are multi millionaires that play for Germany and Portugal, Brazil etc and it doesn't affect them to much . In regards to joe Hart, don't we usually save our slagging for those that don't sing the anthem, they can't bloody win!

We are just not very good, it's as simple as that 

[ChippenhamRed]

58 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Why's it always got to come down to money?

It doesn't come down just to money but we are talking about "pride" and "roaring on the boys" (quotes from further up the thread). I think it is undeniable that the amount of money footballers now earn has changed the relationship between supporters and players, creating a greater expectation of performance levels from supporters to justify astronomical salaries, and weakening any sense of being "in it together". This is particularly heightened when said players perform catastrophically on a global stage, as seen very recently.

[Spoons]

12 hours ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Rashford is a difficult one, he's doing well for man Utd but only as cameo appearances. 

People were saying before euros take players who are playing for there clubs all the time. He's not doing that so can a place be justified on occasional sub appearances.

So if rashford doesn't get in squad because he's only playing cameo's what about joe hart?

[Rob k]

7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It doesn't come down just to money but we are talking about "pride" and "roaring on the boys" (quotes from further up the thread). I think it is undeniable that the amount of money footballers now earn has changed the relationship between supporters and players, creating a greater expectation of performance levels from supporters to justify astronomical salaries, and weakening any sense of being "in it together". This is particularly heightened when said players perform catastrophically on a global stage, as seen very recently.

Well from my perch in Marseille I saw an estimated 70k English fans  who were proud enough to go get out to France with a chance to watch their country and everyone I spoke to had zero expectation from the tournament. Yes it was annoying to lose to Iceland but hey ho life goes on, England will still be the best supported side at the majority of other tournaments. 

Don't blame the footballers for their Salarys, if you want to blame anybody it's the people who pay for sky, and yes, I do have sky, but I have no issue with another mans wage. 

[wayne allisons tongues]

2 hours ago, Spoons said:

So if rashford doesn't get in squad because he's only playing cameo's what about joe hart?

He shouldn't play, 

Forster should start for playing each game. Plus for me Hart has made to many errors end of last season so should fight for his spot. 

If he signs for Torino and plays well then back in squad.

[stephenkibby.]

3 hours ago, Spoons said:

So if rashford doesn't get in squad because he's only playing cameo's what about joe hart?

It's a joke that Rashford is not in the squad. He did more in his 10 minute game time at the Euros than the rest of the forwards put together.

So he's not starting for Manu, so what? he would be for 17 other clubs in the league.

The same thing year after year, manager after manager. Playing for the now and not the future. I don't blame S.A by the way all he will be thinking about is winning the first qualifier. But this short sighted thinking has got nowhere in the last 30 years.Time to have along term goal for once.

How about the F.A growing some balls for once and saying to Sam we would like you to pick a young squad mainly from our quite successful under 21s because every time the superstars play were shite. But don't worry Sam even if we don't qualify your job's safe and you can take these boys through to the World Cup finals.

Pretty sure the country would get behind a young England team more than the bunch of pussies that has been selected to go through the same process every two years.

[RedRock]

18 hours ago, Sepp Blatter said:

People who say "I'm not interested in England anymore", "I hope we don't qualify" or "I've given up" are in the same league as those Bristolians who support Manchester United, Liverpool or Chelsea. Being English is a birth right and you should NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, turn your back on your country. Being English isn't just about winning, it's about pride. The players might not be the best, but to hell with it, that's when we as Englishmen step in to roar them on. 

Would you turn your back on City if they went through a bad patch? 

Disgrace 

As passionate about England as anyone mate. The FA's 'England bad patch' though has lasted 50 years. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again, they don't learn. Enough has been said about Roy and his predecessors. My last hope was that Sam, as a non FA-type, would come in and shake things up big time. Nope...same old. Walcott FFS!!!!!

Suppose the alternative view to the 'traitor' type argument for not caring passionately anymore is if you 'like failure and are happy to lap it up' why don't you go and support The Gas. A comfy fit for those who blindly follow diaster after disaster without protesting. 

If you think saying 'hard cheese lads, better luck in the next tournament' is going to work, with the same players and set up we're suddenly going to put the pride back in the shirt, then fine. To me, those players disgraced the shirt at the last tournament. They made my nation, my sport, a global laughing stock. No pride in that. The Welsh were pissing themselves at us. 

We don't need the 'same old', we need radical change. I'm not proud of supposedly having the best (hyped) league in the world which is rammed full of foreigners with a crappy national team as its consequence. No, I want the pinnacle of the England football pyramid to be the national team, not a Super Sunday on Sky. Until that happens I will boycott Sky and take only a passive interest in the FAs bungling attempts to create a national side worthy of representing my Country. 

So, yes I'm proud of England and proud of various England shirts but am I proud of the shirt 'our lads' wore at the Euro's? No... I think the players, manager, coaches and FA embarrassed it and our Country. Should we continue to passionately 'support' people who embarrass the shirt and our Country and say 'fine chaps, get on with it' - up to you. 

[ChippenhamRed]

9 hours ago, Rob k said:

Well from my perch in Marseille I saw an estimated 70k English fans  who were proud enough to go get out to France with a chance to watch their country and everyone I spoke to had zero expectation from the tournament. Yes it was annoying to lose to Iceland but hey ho life goes on, England will still be the best supported side at the majority of other tournaments. 

Don't blame the footballers for their Salarys, if you want to blame anybody it's the people who pay for sky, and yes, I do have sky, but I have no issue with another mans wage. 

Expectation of winning the tournament? Of course not. Expectation that we would beat a country with a population barely the size of Swindon? Absolutely yes. These same England fans you talk about famously booed the team off in South Africa, and there was certainly plenty of bad feeling after that Iceland performance. Just wait to see what the attendance is for the next home game.

And no I don't blame the players for their salaries, but it does create greater pressure and cause a disconnect with supporters nonetheless. 

[AshtonGreat]

Sam Allardyce's first England squad gives me no confidence that this guy will bring us any success. It's tiresome how none of them have the balls to do anything different. Harry effin Kane was abject at the Euros, and he's done nothing for Spurs this season. Ditto Delle Alli. Sturridge isn't much better. Where is the in-form and ever-reliable Jermain Defoe? And Marcus Rashford for crying out loud? Joe Hart shouldn't play for England again. And Rooney captain? Give me strength. Pep Guardiola showed balls when he dropped Joe Hart for his very first game at Man City, and now he's bought a new goalkeeper. That's what good managers do. England's set-up is rotten to the core.

[I am the mole]

36 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Sam Allardyce's first England squad gives me no confidence that this guy will bring us any success. It's tiresome how none of them have the balls to do anything different. Harry effin Kane was abject at the Euros, and he's done nothing for Spurs this season. Ditto Delle Alli. Sturridge isn't much better. Where is the in-form and ever-reliable Jermain Defoe? And Marcus Rashford for crying out loud? Joe Hart shouldn't play for England again. And Rooney captain? Give me strength. Pep Guardiola showed balls when he dropped Joe Hart for his very first game at Man City, and now he's bought a new goalkeeper. That's what good managers do. England's set-up is rotten to the core.

Sam Allardyce probably won't bring us success but the point is from the very very limited pool of players we got I don't think no one would!

It's down to the f.a to pull there finger out and do something about It more professional coaches running regional centres for excellence for kids up say 13 by then the best ones would have been picked off by academies anyway, 

More emphasis on learning basic  technical skills and then carrying it on through to players knowing exactly where they should be on the pitch at any given moment (atm watching kids football is like watching bees swarming round a moving pot of honey) 

Is Sam the answer long term defiantly not but then the answer long term is something much more fundamentally uprooting!

[AshtonGreat]

30 minutes ago, I am the mole said:

Sam Allardyce probably won't bring us success but the point is from the very very limited pool of players we got I don't think no one would!

It's down to the f.a to pull there finger out and do something about It more professional coaches running regional centres for excellence for kids up say 13 by then the best ones would have been picked off by academies anyway, 

More emphasis on learning basic  technical skills and then carrying it on through to players knowing exactly where they should be on the pitch at any given moment (atm watching kids football is like watching bees swarming round a moving pot of honey) 

Is Sam the answer long term defiantly not but then the answer long term is something much more fundamentally uprooting!

I get what you're saying, and agree that there's a more deep-rooted problem, but if there isn't a great deal of emphasis on the manager, why pay them such astronomical wages? Besides, having a limited pool doesn't explain why in-form players are being overlooked in favour of the likes of Kane and Rooney. Kane in particular was beyond awful at the Euros and needs a kick up the arse - exactly the effect that being dropped from the squad would have. Instead, the message they're being given is: play as crap as you like; your place is guaranteed. 

[I am the mole]

38 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I get what you're saying, and agree that there's a more deep-rooted problem, but if there isn't a great deal of emphasis on the manager, why pay them such astronomical wages? Besides, having a limited pool doesn't explain why in-form players are being overlooked in favour of the likes of Kane and Rooney. Kane in particular was beyond awful at the Euros and needs a kick up the arse - exactly the effect that being dropped from the squad would have. Instead, the message they're being given is: play as crap as you like; your place is guaranteed. 

Hopefully Sam is just going to give them chance work within in perameters and perform or ship out until they can!

[AshtonGreat]

36 minutes ago, I am the mole said:

Hopefully Sam is just going to give them chance work within in perameters and perform or ship out until they can!

Hopefully - but I won't hold my breath. It's an old boys' club and always has been

[Coxy27]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

Hopefully - but I won't hold my breath. It's an old boys' club and always has been

It certainly was a 'Roy's Boys' club under Hodgson. Can't really judge what the future will be like before a ball is kicked though.

[AshtonGreat]

15 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

It certainly was a 'Roy's Boys' club under Hodgson. Can't really judge what the future will be like before a ball is kicked though.

Well it's not boding well from Sam's first squad

[Coxy27]

4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Well it's not boding well from Sam's first squad

Yeah, but who realistically, would you pick?

I honestly don't think there are too many players that could be in the squad that aren't.

[EnderMB]

I don't know why we spout the same stuff about club form versus perceived ability. Both approaches have been proven to not work by our previous two managers. Capello picked people in form, and it led to some ridiculous call-ups that never should have happened. Hodgson picked based on club form and we ended up with a team that couldn't follow direction.

Big Sam isn't going to change anything yet, because he doesn't know who can play in his style. What I think he will succeed at, where others have failed, is building a solid system after a year, and not forcing talented youngsters into the squad. Rashford is a great player, but as the golden generation have showed, chucking too many youngsters into the national team only disillusions them. The Euros probably did a great job of bringing down the young talent in the squad, and Big Sam will have to repair their trust.

[Rob k]

6 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Expectation of winning the tournament? Of course not. Expectation that we would beat a country with a population barely the size of Swindon? Absolutely yes. These same England fans you talk about famously booed the team off in South Africa, and there was certainly plenty of bad feeling after that Iceland performance. Just wait to see what the attendance is for the next home game.

And no I don't blame the players for their salaries, but it does create greater pressure and cause a disconnect with supporters nonetheless. 

There has been 3 premier league games since the Euros!! Give him a chance,

I don't see much wrong in terms of pick with the squad, let's see what it's like in a years time 

[SecretSam]

On 8/29/2016 at 08:45, Sepp Blatter said:

People who say "I'm not interested in England anymore", "I hope we don't qualify" or "I've given up" are in the same league as those Bristolians who support Manchester United, Liverpool or Chelsea. Being English is a birth right and you should NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, turn your back on your country. Being English isn't just about winning, it's about pride. The players might not be the best, but to hell with it, that's when we as Englishmen step in to roar them on. 

Would you turn your back on City if they went through a bad patch? 

Disgrace 

Frankly, bollocks.  A mate of mine (Arsenal fan) asked which would I take: Premier League or England winning a trophy?  Absolute no brainer.  I couldn't give a rat's arse about England.  And I can confirm that having attended an England friendly, the atmosphere was more poisonous than any City game I've been to since the mid-80s.

Don't accuse me of a lack of 'patriotism' because I won't support a bunch of over-paid, over-rated and frankly useless players whose sole reason for appearing is to secure the next Shampoo sponsorship deal.  Being a patriot is about more than banging out "3 Lions" and the Great Escape tune, in concert with that ******* awful England "band".

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, Coxy27 said:

Yeah, but who realistically, would you pick?

I honestly don't think there are too many players that could be in the squad that aren't.

Rashford and Defoe up top, for a start. Rooney should really have hung up his international boots after Euro 2016. He's had enough chances now

[SARJ]

I've always been a sensible optimist when it comes to England football. Every major tournament, hopes are built up then torn straight back down. This Euros, with young lions at the helm, genuinely thought we could have done well. But oh how wrong I was - yet again.

 

I've now given up as far as England are concerned. No pride, no passion, and losing to Iceland this Euros was just a step too far for me to bear. I wish Big Sam and the boys all the best, genuinely do, and I'd never slag the team off or say 'hope they lose' etc. But I've lost all optimism and interest. Next major tournament I'll be expecting last 16 tops and nothing more, which is pathetic really seeing as we're the home of the greatest league in the world. And apart from the odd news highlights, I won't be watching friendlies or qualifiers. As someone else said, I'm sick of seeing us beat Moldova or Lichtenstein 3 nil and thinking we're great, only to get embarrassed on the world stage when it counts.

 

As for the poster who suggested not supporting the national team means you're not proud to be English, you are very wrong sir. You won't mean anyone as proud to be English/British as myself. I'm also an amateur boxer who always enters the ring draped in a St George flag. But as for the national team I'm ashamed of them. Vardy and co can f*** off home to a shopping spree with their WAGS, just like they did after getting humiliated by Iceland.

[Cowshed]

I am the mole. Interesting post - "It's down to the f.a to pull there finger out and do something about It more professional coaches running regional centres for excellence for kids up say 13 by then the best ones would have been picked off by academies anyway"

It is also something Bristol City could do. There is land at Ashton Vale.

Some of the Bristol City community trust training sessions are not ran by professional coaches. Striving for excellence should start with all kids who want to play football. In Iceland or Spain or many Countries  coaches minus badges are not allowed to coach children. 

[RedRock]

19 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I am the mole. Interesting post - "It's down to the f.a to pull there finger out and do something about It more professional coaches running regional centres for excellence for kids up say 13 by then the best ones would have been picked off by academies anyway"

It is also something Bristol City could do. There is land at Ashton Vale.

Some of the Bristol City community trust training sessions are not ran by professional coaches. Striving for excellence should start with all kids who want to play football. In Iceland or Spain or many Countries  coaches minus badges are not allowed to coach children. 

No. I tell you what.... stuff the SoD-like FA philosophy of 'our fundamental principle in developing a team and style of play  is possession based football'. **** it and **** them. Start thinking about the 'here and now' rather than a glittering future that never arrives you cretins (but can justify eye-watering salaries of an army of administrators).

What I'd do now is develop a new squad, England A, and develop a team philosophy. Select players based on their ability to play in a position (that's a radical thought isn't it!) and who have a real passion to improve themselves and win. Win games, win trophies. When we've blended a team of winners promote the lot of them to the first team and chuck out the perpetual losers and bottlers than inhabit the present England squad, 

You know what, Flint and Joe wouldn't be far off that England A squad. 

 

[Cowshed]

"No. I tell you what.... stuff the ..."

Yes that is exactly what has been happening for decades.

Without advanced technique and the tactical flexibility it provides England saunter through the qualifiers v Slovakia etc then? Lose against the first team that is not mediocre. Next comes the hand wriniging, the accusations they get paid too much, don't care, wear headphones, don't sing the anthem, but the strategy (?) behind failure changes little.

That is England.

Manchester United spent more on Paul Pogba than England as a nation does coaching its kids nationally to the standards the Germans, Spanish or that powerhouse Iceland follow.

Fail to prepare, prepare to be England ..

[RedRock]

More coaching, better coaching..... more money ......play like Brazil, Holland, Spain (or whoever won the last tournament)..... possession football blah, blah ... 50 years of absolute trophy-less crap and well beyond tiresome. Delivered a bunch of Wilshires, Oxeyed-Chamberlains, Walcott's and other similar nothing-footballer lightweights who win ***** all. They don't know how to win FFS. 

Now time for the 'professors of football'  to step aside from their obscenely paid jobs, junk their computers, charts and weasel words and philosophies and get back to a basics ... having a team full of winners is what counts. 

Who did we appoint Greenwood instead of Clough? ..... Yep, a technical manager rather than someone who could motivate and knew how to win. Afraid the philosophers have used all their time up and delivered absolute junk. 

 

 

[Cowshed]

Yes Moor2sea "back to basics". Pass and move. Left foot right foot. Do it better. Do it faster. England do neither better. England struggle with faster full stop. Fundamentally it is what the Germans and Spanish do.

"More coaching, better coaching..... more money ..." Yes. Equal the French, Germans, Spanish and the Icelandic conquers of England.