Jamie Mcallister and the u23 team (Merged)

[Berkshire Red]

Just looking on the website today I saw another match report from the u23 saying they lost again. 

Not that I particularly follow the youth squad, but is it worrying that we have brought in quite a few players for the youth team and talk about bringing through players from the youth academy, and yet the last time they won was against a team from the armed forces

[Phileas Fogg]

I think lots of the best u23s are out on loan. No idea if that's the case for the opposition we play but we are a worse side without Vyner, Morrell, O'Leary, Smith, McCoulsky etc 

[RedRaw]

These games are all about player development not necessarily winning games. They have to be competitive but ultimately if we produce 2/3 players per year for the first team squad, its done its job

 

[E.J.Thribb]

1) Lots of youth out on loan

2) It's the u-23's. 'Win at all costs' mentality isn't what's needed. 

[Monkeh]

when your best players aren't at the club you will struggle

It's like us to try and beat Ipswich say with O'Donnel, Flint, Tammy, Wilbraham Tomlin, O'neil, Magnisson, the new swidish lad(I will learn his name soon) all missing,

That's what Jamie has to put up with,

He's missing

O'Leary

Vyner, Garita, Burns, Harris, Dowling, Morrell, Difford and McCoulsky

[Welcome To The Jungle]

They could be making mistakes 'trying to do the right thing'. Rather they did that than played to win but learning nothing. 

[Lrrr]

The last 3 games we've lost have been against U23's sides of premier league clubs, the last two are defeats by 1 goal. I'd wait and see how they get on against sides of clubs of a similar size to us before being critical. As others have said we have a lot out on loan which would be difficult for them to get results and its about the process of developing them for the first team.

[Son of Fred]

All about development and playing formula right through the ranks-watched the U-18's v Palace,and although they lost the game was very impressed with how the lads pulled together,some lovely football at times-playing out from the back,certainly not hoofball....was impressed with the guy playing in the middle (8),useful....and the keeper-very assured/great positional sense for a youngster..huge guy,are they sure he's 'under 18 !!...

[And Its Smith]

The reasons have already been given above.  Watching against Palace it was literally men against boys.  We had one player who looked physically big enough for first team football.  They had about six.

Not saying physicality is everything but our team just looked tiny and like teenagers compared to Palace.

[Portland Bill]

I watched Clevedon u18's v WSM u 18's in the FA Youth cup last night. Some great football on display. Tinman and a couple other City coaches? we're there watching.

There was a blonde haired lad who played at the back for WSM who had an outstanding game, seriously impressive.

It wasn't until after the game that I found out he had recently been released by City!! The quality we have must be very very good if this lad got released!

 

 

[RedRock]

I know I'll get slated for this view.... but it's about developing a winning mentality. That breeds confidence, that means you'll have the confidence to develop and practice your skills. Losing mentality acts in reverse. Works in all aspects of life and professions. 

A national team containing the likes of Hart, Wilshire, Sterling, Henderson, Lallana, Berkley, et al ..all brought up to develop skills rather than win..... proves the point. We're getting it wrong. All froth no substance. Losers the lot of them. Not a hint of backbone, leadership, strength of character. Genuinely, don't think losing hurts them as much as it does the fans. 

Play to win. 

Over to you Cowshed.

 

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

I know I'll get slated for this view.... but it's about developing a winning mentality. That breeds confidence, that means you'll have the confidence to develop and practice your skills. Losing mentality acts in reverse. Works in all aspects of life and professions. 

A national team containing the likes of Hart, Wilshire, Sterling, Henderson, Lallana, Berkley, et al ..all brought up to develop skills rather than win..... proves the point. We're getting it wrong. All froth no substance. Losers the lot of them. Not a hint of backbone, leadership, strength of character. Genuinely, don't think losing hurts them as much as it does the fans. 

Play to win. 

Over to you Cowshed.

Obviously it's better if our u23 team win all their games. How do you get it right then? Keep all our best players in the side and win more, but not allow them to experience real men's senior football by going on loan? Catch 22.

I don't think the players you've mentioned are 'losers', lots of them are still young players who could have good careers.

 

[Port Said Red]

7 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

I know I'll get slated for this view.... but it's about developing a winning mentality. That breeds confidence, that means you'll have the confidence to develop and practice your skills. Losing mentality acts in reverse. Works in all aspects of life and professions. 

A national team containing the likes of Hart, Wilshire, Sterling, Henderson, Lallana, Berkley, et al ..all brought up to develop skills rather than win..... proves the point. We're getting it wrong. All froth no substance. Losers the lot of them. Not a hint of backbone, leadership, strength of character. Genuinely, don't think losing hurts them as much as it does the fans. 

Play to win. 

Over to you Cowshed.

 

 

 

If you can do that without bringing in the fear factor then fine. Jamie Mac alluded to it in his post match interview, there is no shame in "managing the game" especially towards the end of it.

 

McAllister told Bristol City Player HD: "The two goals we conceded were at the end of both halves so we’ve got to manage the game better.

"We have to understand what is required at that time of the game. We didn’t today and it cost us."

He added: “It’s all about the players recognising their mistakes and learning from them, and not letting them happen again.
Read more at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/we-must-manage-games-better-mcallister-3293195.aspx#JpSL2rkD5zXkk70I.99

[Monkeh]

19 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

I know I'll get slated for this view.... but it's about developing a winning mentality. That breeds confidence, that means you'll have the confidence to develop and practice your skills. Losing mentality acts in reverse. Works in all aspects of life and professions. 

A national team containing the likes of Hart, Wilshire, Sterling, Henderson, Lallana, Berkley, et al ..all brought up to develop skills rather than win..... proves the point. We're getting it wrong. All froth no substance. Losers the lot of them. Not a hint of backbone, leadership, strength of character. Genuinely, don't think losing hurts them as much as it does the fans. 

Play to win. 

Over to you Cowshed.

 

 

 

As applied to Rio lampard Gerard who were brought up to win at all costs 

makes no difference

[RedRock]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Obviously it's better if our u23 team win all their games. How do you get it right then? Keep all our best players in the side and win more, but not allow them to experience real men's senior football by going on loan? Catch 22.

I don't think the players you've mentioned are 'losers', lots of them are still young players who could have good careers.

 

All a matter of balance. Can't recall the last time our Under 23's won a competitive match. 

Bottom line is you enter leagues that you have the capability of winning.

If we need to farm people out to play 35 year old cloggers so be it... but to be fair to those left behind, don't leave them as cannon fodder for the development of 20-23 year olds from other Clubs. 

[RedRock]

8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

As applied to Rio lampard Gerard who were brought up to win at all costs 

makes no difference

I prefer to look at our legends of Gow, Hunter and the likes in the best era we ever had as a Club. I'd say they were 'win at all costs' sort of people. 

Name me one player in the current England team, indeed, entire squad who has a 'win at all costs' mentality. Therein, lies our problem. Not one player stepped up to the mark against Iceland and took responsibility to lead. Losing has been coached into their DNA. It's accepted. 

[Unan]

22 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

All a matter of balance. Can't recall the last time our Under 23's won a competitive match. 

Bottom line is you enter leagues that you have the capability of winning.

If we need to farm people out to play 35 year old cloggers so be it... but to be fair to those left behind, don't leave them as cannon fodder for the development of 20-23 year olds from other Clubs. 

With respect, I'm sure the club will have s better idea as what's best for their players.. I hope 

[RedRock]

55 minutes ago, Griffin said:

With respect, I'm sure the club will have s better idea as what's best for their players.. I hope 

So do I. Genuinely do. 

The Academy over the last 20+ years though, has hardly been a shinning light in producing a stream of first team talent. 

Jamie Mac, I hear, is a great bloke and LJ is cutting edge 'modernism' in football coaching. Whether that is sufficient to change things, time will tell. Think if they can't crack it, might as well give up with the concept and concentrate on unearthing another non- Academy product such as Kodjia or, better still, Vardey. 

[Robin1988]

9 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

The Academy over the last 20+ years though, has hardly been a shinning light in producing a stream of first team talent. 

Perhaps not, but Vyner, O'Leary, Bryan, Golbourne, Dowling and Morrell have all been in first-team squads in the past year, despite us not pulling up any trees since the U21 league came in a few years ago.

[Ray White]

3 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

They could be making mistakes 'trying to do the right thing'. Rather they did that than played to win but learning nothing. 

Is that you Sean??

[archie andrews]

2 hours ago, Ray White said:

Is that you Sean??

stupid question.....

[Robin 101]

If the club cared about U23 results or thought players could make significant progress playing U23 games then we wouldnt have (Rightly) sent so many youngsters out on loan. The fact Johnson would rather have our kids at Frome or Weston than playing U23 football tells you everything about our priorities.

The moment the club starts valuing the U23 league is the moment i'll start caring about their results.

 

[And Its Smith]

8 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

I know I'll get slated for this view.... but it's about developing a winning mentality. That breeds confidence, that means you'll have the confidence to develop and practice your skills. Losing mentality acts in reverse. Works in all aspects of life and professions. 

A national team containing the likes of Hart, Wilshire, Sterling, Henderson, Lallana, Berkley, et al ..all brought up to develop skills rather than win..... proves the point. We're getting it wrong. All froth no substance. Losers the lot of them. Not a hint of backbone, leadership, strength of character. Genuinely, don't think losing hurts them as much as it does the fans. 

Play to win. 

Over to you Cowshed.

 

 

 

Are Spanish, Brazilian, German and Argentinan youth players bought up with that philosophy?

Geniune question.  If the answer is yes then you have a point.  If it's no then you don't. 

[RedRock]

7 hours ago, RedDave said:

Are Spanish, Brazilian, German and Argentinan youth players bought up with that philosophy?

Geniune question.  If the answer is yes then you have a point.  If it's no then you don't. 

Yes. 

Thank you for my point.

Adding African, rest of South and Central Anerica is deserved of another point.

[Monkeh]

10 hours ago, Robin 101 said:

If the club cared about U23 results or thought players could make significant progress playing U23 games then we wouldnt have (Rightly) sent so many youngsters out on loan. The fact Johnson would rather have our kids at Frome or Weston than playing U23 football tells you everything about our priorities.

The moment the club starts valuing the U23 league is the moment i'll start caring about their results.

 

sorry you are talking shit, he does value it, but its better these lad play mens football with more physicality then against other kid, They care about player development not the results in a league that means next to **** all, would you rather produce another bryan and reid or win the under 23 league for "Bragging" rights?

[Robin 101]

6 hours ago, Monkeh said:

sorry you are talking shit, he does value it, but its better these lad play mens football with more physicality then against other kid, They care about player development not the results in a league that means next to **** all, would you rather produce another bryan and reid or win the under 23 league for "Bragging" rights?

Dont really see where we disagree. u23 is entirely for development and id rather the players were out on loan playing mens football. What I meant was id be worried by results in the u23 league if we had all of our best young players playing in that league.

I dont mean that the club doesnt value the U23 squad only that results arent that important to them and therefore I dont really worry about them either.

Where excactly am I talking shit?

[And Its Smith]

6 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

Yes. 

Thank you for my point.

Adding African, rest of South and Central Anerica is deserved of another point.

How do you know?

[Cowshed]

The answer is no Red Dave. Spanish academies and u16 - U21 teams do not employ a win at all costs mentality. Does anybody really think they would suddenly go "stick the big men up top and lets go 2-3-5 and chuck it in the mixer?

Spain has a national strategy -fidelity strategy. It is based on nurturing technique and is based on patience, not solely results. The Spanish highly technical, possession-based game is not created by win at all costs.

[cityboy]

I think I read somewhere that we tend to bump players up an age group to give them more experience, which could also explain why our teams results may not always look the best. The players will no doubt benefit greatly from playing in the next age group up though, so it's a good thing rather than a focus on results only 

[Natchfever]

8 hours ago, Monkeh said:

sorry you are talking shit, he does value it, but its better these lad play mens football with more physicality then against other kid, They care about player development not the results in a league that means next to **** all, would you rather produce another bryan and reid or win the under 23 league for "Bragging" rights?

Frome and Weston really isn't a very good standard for a professional to be playing in but can someone tell me the average age of our under 23 side and if you're a proper brainbox the age of the opposition teams we have been failing against? The reason I ask is that if it is U23 rather than U21 then presumably there are some full grown men on the pitch who should be able to offer all the physicality needed ? That being said im sure LJ and JMc know exactly who should be shipped out and the reasons for doing it.