Jamie Mcallister and the u23 team (Merged)

[old_eastender]

I see they lost again, don't seem to be doing very well at all under Mac, shame Wade Elliot was binned.

 

 

 

 

[Spoons]

Have you watched any games?? Some of the better players away on loan and like any new manger time is needed to settle in. 

Im sure wade lost more than he won?

also results not everything in u23 football

[Meh]

50 minutes ago, Spoons said:

also results not everything in u23 football

No I would imagine losing most games is doing them the world of good - buzzing !! 

These kids have grown up playing competitive football.

Wanting to win and be the best is their dream - losing week in and week out will affect them badly and will affect our chances of encouraging young talent to our club.

Tell SL and LJ that winning at this level is not everything - I would imagine they may disagree and I'm fairly sure if it continues the return of the mac will be shorter than anybody originally planned !!

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

No I would imagine losing most games is doing them the world of good - buzzing !! 

These kids have grown up playing competitive football.

Wanting to win and be the best is their dream - losing week in and week out will affect them badly and will affect our chances of encouraging young talent to our club.

Tell SL and LJ that winning at this level is not everything - I would imagine they may disagree and I'm fairly sure if it continues the return of the mac will be shorter than anybody originally planned !!

How do you think the first team would do with 8 of their best players missing?

 

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

No I would imagine losing most games is doing them the world of good - buzzing !! 

These kids have grown up playing competitive football.

Wanting to win and be the best is their dream - losing week in and week out will affect them badly and will affect our chances of encouraging young talent to our club.

Tell SL and LJ that winning at this level is not everything - I would imagine they may disagree and I'm fairly sure if it continues the return of the mac will be shorter than anybody originally planned !!

I think we are playing players who are a lot younger than the players they come up against, I think it will stand them in good stead when they mature and have been playing at this level for a couple of seasons.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

No I would imagine losing most games is doing them the world of good - buzzing !! 

These kids have grown up playing competitive football.

Wanting to win and be the best is their dream - losing week in and week out will affect them badly and will affect our chances of encouraging young talent to our club.

Tell SL and LJ that winning at this level is not everything - I would imagine they may disagree and I'm fairly sure if it continues the return of the mac will be shorter than anybody originally planned !!

Echoing how others have said really, we've loaned out lots of our best players. McCoulsky, Morrell, Vyner and a fair few others. Imagine the city side without Abraham, O'Neil and Flint etc; it's a far weaker proposition. 

I see your point about breeding a culture of winning, but at youth level the manager really can only work with what he's got.

I don't think anything can be read into Jamie McAllister just yet, Wade Elliot didn't win that much either! 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

No I would imagine losing most games is doing them the world of good - buzzing !! 

These kids have grown up playing competitive football.

Wanting to win and be the best is their dream - losing week in and week out will affect them badly and will affect our chances of encouraging young talent to our club.

Tell SL and LJ that winning at this level is not everything - I would imagine they may disagree and I'm fairly sure if it continues the return of the mac will be shorter than anybody originally planned !!

Teams like Barcelona have long worked on the basis performances matter more than results at youth levels.  Hasn't done them much harm.

[EmersonsRed]

I get the impression that LJ wanted rid of Wade Elliot early on in his reign. Also I have been largely critical of our academy for many years, personally don't think we have invested in the right ways, we still have youngsters being poached all around us, and, it would seem we have decided that with there being so many cat a/1 academies we have changed our tact towards looking for 18/19 year olds as opposed to younger players to come through our academy. 4/5 of our top U23 players are out on loan however... 

[Meh]

7 hours ago, Monkeh said:

How do you think the first team would do with 8 of their best players missing?

 

Ok as we have squad depth now and could put out a decent side - certainly if we were not picking up points consistently though we would all be concerned and I guarantee that as we fall down the table changes would be called for wouldn't they?

7 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I think we are playing players who are a lot younger than the players they come up against, I think it will stand them in good stead when they mature and have been playing at this level for a couple of seasons.

Or it will shatter their confidence and they may want away?

6 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Teams like Barcelona have long worked on the basis performances matter more than results at youth levels.  Hasn't done them much harm.

Have they? Do they win more than they lose? I would expect so which is a bit different than our situation currently wouldn't you say? 

 

I think as is common on this forum  the people quoting me to get their like quota up have missed my point - do you think I want us to fail or something? The point is that confidence will drop if we keep losing - we've all been young playing football - how would you feel irrespective of underlying reasons - gutted - fed up - maybe wishing you were somewhere else?

And if I'm a young decent player at club X and I hear 3 other clubs who I have no affinity with want me, would myself, my agent and family consider a lot of things including emphasis on perceived performances in making my choice? Yes I would. On that basis would City seem the best option? Doubtful I would suggest ??

[Cowshed]

Nothing to do with getting up a like quota Neo but Barcelona do operate teams outside of the first XI in the manner described. Win, lose , draw its about development. In another thread I pointed out that they do not go four up top with a big man to chuck it up to in an effort to get a result. It may be not be the best parallel as development models abroad normally play 4-3-3 season long as this requires players to demonstrate more flexibility in an effort to create long term gains v winning today.

[fergie1919]

End of the day I think people need to be patient, these are young men just coming into the under 23 level. Talking from experience. It can take a good 6 months for boys to get up to that level. Once it hits the under 23 it's a completely different level. Plus the fact there is a new manager. To be honest. First thing first you are wanting the boys to be playing good positive football and be confident on the ball. That will bring the boys on more and the winning will take care of itself. It's still development football. The better the first team do also the higher the profile of the club and the better calibrate of young players the club can attract from afar. I know people like to see only local players in the team but that's the way it's going these days. 

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

Or it will shatter their confidence and they may want away?

Thats where the coaching staff come in, they have to keep emphasising that the result is not the important thing, pointing out deficiencies they can work on at this point, i.e. things that are not about physicality but about the understanding of the game and the mental approach. They have to show them where they are improving and where they will improve once they are "big boys".

When I was at school the kids that played for the team weren't the most talented in their age group they were the biggest. The ones who got disheartened were the ones who were smaller for their age, I often wonder how many talented players were lost because they were born in February or March as opposed to September.

[Major Isewater]

13 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Thats where the coaching staff come in, they have to keep emphasising that the result is not the important thing, pointing out deficiencies they can work on at this point, i.e. things that are not about physicality but about the understanding of the game and the mental approach. They have to show them where they are improving and where they will improve once they are "big boys".

When I was at school the kids that played for the team weren't the most talented in their age group they were the biggest. The ones who got disheartened were the ones who were smaller for their age, I often wonder how many talented players were lost because they were born in February or March as opposed to September.

I was born in April and if it was n't for that I could have been a top player .

[spudski]

@Major Isewater 1st by any chance Major? ;-)

[Ian M]

Things might also improve a bit when we get our 2nd assistant first team coach in and free up Lee to do the work with the Academy groups that he wants to.

[Major Isewater]

29 minutes ago, spudski said:

@Major Isewater 1st by any chance Major? ;-)

That would have been nice but alas no . 

[Berkshire Red]

While I can see people's point about the best of the youth being out on loan, surely all these other clubs do the same? I find it difficult to believe that if all these teams we lose to have better and older players than ours sat in there u23 team that no one would be trying to bring them in on loan? 

Also when the teams get invited to join the youth league, I don't think the club would have accepted entry to its current league unless they thought they could be competitive. So the fact they keep losinlg is something to be concerned about

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, city2015 said:

While I can see people's point about the best of the youth being out on loan, surely all these other clubs do the same? I find it difficult to believe that if all these teams we lose to have better and older players than ours sat in there u23 team that no one would be trying to bring them in on loan? 

Also when the teams get invited to join the youth league, I don't think the club would have accepted entry to its current league unless they thought they could be competitive. So the fact they keep losinlg is something to be concerned about

We're barely out of August, it takes time at youth level. 

On a deeper level though we always seem to do reasonably poorly at youth level. This indicates endemic problems at youth level probably dating back years to last time we were in this league. We haven't had proper coaches, youth scouting or any sort of ethos at youth level for several years.

As a result we're playing catch up with the likes of Palace, Southampton and even Cardiff who've had a good youth system in place for a long time.

People need to be patient, our youth setup is in good hands with Tinnion etc and we're finally getting to where we should be with scouting. It's scandalous we let other sides steal a march on us within Bristol/Somerset/Gloucester - Southampton had a satellite academy in Bath somehow which was plucking good players from mid-Somerset which is well within our range. 

City, in my experience, had a bit of a bad rep for academy level. Players got injured from overtraining too much at a young age and I know of parents who picked Rovers over City for their kids in years gone by. There's even a youth academy based in Keynsham - the name escapes me - which some parents have even chosen over us. Luckily I think we're clawing this back now but we've been a bit negligent until the last couple of years.