Nogbad the Bad Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 49 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: Note the comment made by Lee that some players had accepted a draw. If not lack of talent, wrong temperament in sense of not trying, then wrong temperament/judgement in accepting a draw. As I said all will be revealed tomorrow. Possibly no changes at all if some have been given a rocket. Still think Ekstrand is more likely than not to be our number 5 by end of season, with eventually Moore as back up. As ever a matter of opinions although the only one that counts is Lee's and the coaching staff COYR. A big bounce back tomorrow Perhaps that's the message his substitutions put across, starting with Golbourne, and he didn't rectify this, as he could and should have done, by giving direct instructions for the subs. to pass on. LJ has to hold his hands up on this one imo. He's often got it right with his subs. and tactics, but he must take his share of the blame for the 10 v 10 fiasco. To publicly criticise players in the immediate aftermath, justified or not, only compounds his own errors on the night, which the players will be aware of as much as anybody else. Perhaps his own tactics and substitutions - after O'Neil was sent off - put City in some disarray, allowed Wednesday the freedom of the park, and were in fact a big factor in the ensuing defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 Tomlin was substituted after GON was sent off. This is my opinion was the right call, it helped sure things up and was forward thinking - given we didn't want Lee to get another booking and we potentially have both him and GON suspended on Saturday. I think you can talk about subs, but I put the defeat down to inexperience. The Wednesday crowd took the roof off and one or two of our boys couldn't cope. You cannot even begin to blame tactics or subs for the spill ROD just should never have made for 2-2, swinging the momentum firmly Wednesday's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 29 minutes ago, Monkeh said: it's sends the message that, this is a tight game hold on to the lead, it was when o'donnel dropped his clanger the problems started to happen, Nether of us were at the game however so we can only speculate, but one things for sure, if he brought on an attacker for o'neil and we lost 3-2 we be having the discussion about us NOT shutting up shop, We were away from home against a good Wednesday side and lost It didn't have to be a defender or attacker. Surely what was needed was a similar player to O'Neil, a respected leader figure, an experienced battler to re-motivate the team and help reorganise it for the 10 v 10. Why not just bring on Korey Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Perhaps that's the message his substitutions put across, starting with Golbourne, and he didn't rectify this, as he could and should have done, by giving direct instructions for the subs. to pass on. LJ has to hold his hands up on this one imo. He's often got it right with his subs. and tactics, but he must take his share of the blame for the 10 v 10 fiasco. To publicly criticise players in the immediate aftermath, justified or not, only compounds his own errors on the night, which the players will be aware of as much as anybody else. Perhaps his own tactics and substitutions - after O'Neil was sent off - put City in some disarray, allowed Wednesday the freedom of the park, and were in fact a big factor in the ensuing defeat. what errors was that then, we were 2-0 up only for our players to make 4 mistakes which cost us the game, if the players didn't **** up we would of won 3-1 with 11 men on the field, How can johnson be blamed for Tomlin missing the pen, flint making a mistake o'donnel making a mistake and o'neil being reckless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: It didn't have to be a defender or attacker. Surely what was needed was a similar player to O'Neil, a respected leader figure, an experienced battler to re-motivate the team and help reorganise it for the 10 v 10. Why not just bring on Korey Smith? Fitness? Maybe he had 20 minutes in him but not 30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 17 hours ago, Flint says No said: In the international break we had so many good posts saying positive things about players e.g O'Donnell may be the best goalkeeper in the league, Flint and Tomlins premier league quality just to name a few. Now after the Sheffield Wednesday game we have negative comments saying that Flint is a liability, O'Donnell's terrible and should be dropped, Tomlin's not scored enough goals so far. Can we please give our players some respect that they need to push on in the league I know it can be frustrating when we lose but can everyone please calm ourselves down. Now let's cheer on the City and give our boys some massive support for Saturday COYR Anyone who thinks Flint is premier league quality needs to think if football is the game for them.....he would be brutally exposed in the prem. some people even mentioned he could go onto play for England. dont get me wrong fantastic servant to us and been a real part of our recent success but this is most definitely his level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: Anyone who thinks Flint is premier league quality needs to think if football is the game for them.....he would be brutally exposed in the prem. some people even mentioned he could go onto play for England. dont get me wrong fantastic servant to us and been a real part of our recent success but this is most definitely his level flint could play in the prem but he'd need someone like Stones along side him to stop his weaknesses being exposed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Monkeh said: what errors was that then, we were 2-0 up only for our players to make 4 mistakes which cost us the game, if the players didn't **** up we would of won 3-1 with 11 men on the field, How can johnson be blamed for Tomlin missing the pen, flint making a mistake o'donnel making a mistake and o'neil being reckless? I specifically said ' LJ has often got it right with his subs. and tactics, but he must take his share of the blame for the 10 v 10 fiasco'. He got it spot on up until O'Neil was sent off, his response both tactically, and his substitutions, are certainly open to question after that. City came under huge pressure, and mistakes followed, but could the manager perhaps have done more with his substitutions and tactics to alleviate that? You obviously don't think so, I beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 13 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: Fitness? Maybe he had 20 minutes in him but not 30? Yep, possibly, but fit for 20 but not for 30 seems a very fine dividing line to judge and he ended up playing 23/24 with the added time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 Well as someone who was actually at the game I don't blame Johnson's substitutions for why we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 19 minutes ago, bearded_red said: Well as someone who was actually at the game I don't blame Johnson's substitutions for why we lost. Not sure anyone's said that, and the little criticism he is getting is with the caveat that his substitutions have worked many times before and no manager gets it right every time. I've said LJ's substitutions and tactics after the sending off (the tactics and formation being spot on in the first half) clearly didn't work and, with the full 3 to play with against Carvahal's nought, that indicates he should take a share of the blame. Do think he made the right substitutions and tactical changes to at least give us our best chance of holding our own in the 10 v 10, or will he, at least privately, be reproaching himself that this time he got a number of things wrong? With strong criticism of individual players being thrown around all over the place, it's fair and reasonable that we also look at the managers' performance on the night, and note that on this occasion neither his post O'Neil substitutions or tactics were beneficial, and therefore he should take his share of the responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said: It's understandable if fans criticise Flint for the last couple of games. Although he's not played badly overall he has been notably involved in several goals conceded, and is an obvious target for blame for disappointed supporters, especially those who only see the 'highlights' However, to suggest he may be one who 'crumbled' or hid away, that his temperament or determination is somehow suspect, is one of the most absurd things I've ever seen on this forum. Things certainly didn't go his way against Rotherham and Wednesday, but there's absolutely no doubt that Flint will always give 100% for the duration, and will never shirk from being at the heart of the action. I find it baffling any supporter who has watched Flint for the last couple of years could possibly question his attitude - his character is not in question and to intimate otherwise is frankly laughable. You're absolutely right NTB and people have to understand that Flint and City suffered huge slices of bad luck at Rotherham and Wednesday, which exacerbated the unforced errors. We need more leaders on the pitch and a stronger mentality in order to close out games. To date we have been over reliant on O'Neill to carry the heavy water and Saturday will be a test of maturity as much as ability. I back us to tick both boxes and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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