Andre Gray banned for 4 games.

[Tipps69]

Am I the only one who think that he's been unfairly treated?

Fair enough what he has said / tweeted was wrong but it was a number of years ago while he was young & playing non-league football & was less well known but now someone else has chosen to trawl through his tweet history (or whatever it's called) & he has been found guilty of whatever it is that he's been found guilty of but it wasn't him who retweeted the post & he explained the situation behind the original tweet all those years ago.

How many people in the world have posted something on Twitter / Facebook / Instagram years ago & could now get in trouble for views they once held? Or how many of you have posted something in the past on your own pages that may of upset someone? Would you be happy for it to be dragged back up & for you to get sanctioned now for a view that you once had years ago?

I'm not necessarily banging on about freedom of speech but just the fact that I'm sure the majority of people in the world have said or shared their views in the past that they may not now agree with but why should they now get punished for those views? I suppose I may even agree with a punishment being dealt out if someone was then to still say they agreed with their views but when he has apologised & explained the circumstances & still gets punished, I'm sorry, I just think he's been mistreated & the punishment is out of order!!

[Bar BS3]

What is it that he's been banned for saying/Tweeting? 

[Lord Spandex]

5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What is it that he's been banned for saying/Tweeting? 

Here you are BS3.

 

The Burnley striker Andre Gray has apologised after homophobic tweets in which he appeared to condone killing gay people were shared on social media.

One of the messages, written in 2012 when Gray played for non-league Hinckley United, read: “Is it me or are there gays everywhere? #Burn #Die #Makesmesick”. That tweet, and others containing similar terms, were deleted on Saturday, soon after they started re-circulating online.

[Robin 101]

8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What is it that he's been banned for saying/Tweeting? 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/20/andre-gray-apologises-homophobic-tweet-gay

 

 

[Lord Spandex]

^^^^^^^ snap :laugh:.

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What is it that he's been banned for saying/Tweeting? 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1645870/andre-gray-under-attack-for-vile-and-disgusting-tweet-calling-for-gays-to-burn-and-die/ this article has a few examples..

Obviously the things he's said in the past are very bad. I'm not sure I agree with retrospective punishment though, he gave a good apology at the time and I think he was genuine. 

Not that it excuses him but he comes from a very poor background and knew people involved with crime.. his perspective on the world might be a bit different from the bright young players we're lucky enough to have here. 

[Tipps69]

12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1645870/andre-gray-under-attack-for-vile-and-disgusting-tweet-calling-for-gays-to-burn-and-die/ this article has a few examples..

Obviously the things he's said in the past are very bad. I'm not sure I agree with retrospective punishment though, he gave a good apology at the time and I think he was genuine. 

Not that it excuses him but he comes from a very poor background and knew people involved with crime.. his perspective on the world might be a bit different from the bright young players we're lucky enough to have here. 

That's what I'm saying, how many "normal" people (as in non-footballers) could be in trouble for things they've posted on social media in previous years but because their not famous it won't come to light (and rightly so in my eyes).

[Bar BS3]

22 minutes ago, Lord Spandex said:

Here you are BS3.

 

The Burnley striker Andre Gray has apologised after homophobic tweets in which he appeared to condone killing gay people were shared on social media.

One of the messages, written in 2012 when Gray played for non-league Hinckley United, read: “Is it me or are there gays everywhere? #Burn #Die #Makesmesick”. That tweet, and others containing similar terms, were deleted on Saturday, soon after they started re-circulating online.

 

22 minutes ago, Robin 101 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/20/andre-gray-apologises-homophobic-tweet-gay

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1645870/andre-gray-under-attack-for-vile-and-disgusting-tweet-calling-for-gays-to-burn-and-die/ this article has a few examples..

Obviously the things he's said in the past are very bad. I'm not sure I agree with retrospective punishment though, he gave a good apology at the time and I think he was genuine. 

Not that it excuses him but he comes from a very poor background and knew people involved with crime.. his perspective on the world might be a bit different from the bright young players we're lucky enough to have here. 

Thanks. I'd not heard anything about this before. 

Difficult one really. Of course what he posted was wrong. I'm not sure he should be banned 4 years later though. What does that achieve..?

It's a shame that someone from a minority himself carries such irrational hatred towards another. 

Ignorant, out of line and nasty, yes. Related to his football career, no. 

Even a legal case against him for incitement/hate campaigning or something would make more sense than a 4 game ban from playing football. Very odd. 

[Stortz]

5 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

That's what I'm saying, how many "normal" people (as in non-footballers) could be in trouble for things they've posted on social media in previous years but because their not famous it won't come to light (and rightly so in my eyes).

Err, normal people won't fall foul of the FA's rules will they?

As for not liking retrospective punishment, surely that's how our entire justice system works?!

[JasonM88]

Obviously the tweets are scummy as ****, however, he's been banned using a rule that wasn't in the rule book at the time of the offence. Can that happen? 

[Tipps69]

1 minute ago, Stortz said:

Err, normal people won't fall foul of the FA's rules will they?

As for not liking retrospective punishment, surely that's how our entire justice system works?!

But my point being is how would you react if years after you have posted some derogatory comments on YOUR social media page & it's all been forgotten but someone completely random to you or your job rehash that post & let's say your work decides to punish you by way of a fine or sacking you because they don't agree with your views, would you be happy?

And there's no need to try & be smart by saying normal people wouldn't fall foul of the FA's laws, there's plenty of jobs that have their own section that they must adhere too, like teachers, medical staff or transport operators (for example).

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Stortz said:

Err, normal people won't fall foul of the FA's rules will they?

As for not liking retrospective punishment, surely that's how our entire justice system works?!

This is an FA matter though not a justice one as it would be if he'd stolen a car 4 years ago. There's not much precedent for this which makes it tricky.

[Bar BS3]

24 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But my point being is how would you react if years after you have posted some derogatory comments on YOUR social media page & it's all been forgotten but someone completely random to you or your job rehash that post & let's say your work decides to punish you by way of a fine or sacking you because they don't agree with your views, would you be happy?

And there's no need to try & be smart by saying normal people wouldn't fall foul of the FA's laws, there's plenty of jobs that have their own section that they must adhere too, like teachers, medical staff or transport operators (for example).

In fairness, if someone found a tweet from one of my sons teachers from a few years ago, saying "I love touching up little children" then yes, I'd like to see them sacked for it. 

Different I know, but using your example....! 

[Big C]

I guess that's modern life for you. 20 years ago he may have said it to his circle of mates of which some may have offended, some may have laughed and some have been uncomfortable about it but the next day it would probably have all been forgotten. These days everybody wants to share everything with the entire world and therefore its always out there and can be dredge up to bite you in the bum

[DaveF]

16 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

In fairness, if someone found a tweet from one of my sons teachers from a few years ago, saying "I love touching up little children" then yes, I'd like to see them sacked for it. 

Different I know, but using your example....! 

Errr, just sliiiightly different...

[Tipps69]

20 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

In fairness, if someone found a tweet from one of my sons teachers from a few years ago, saying "I love touching up little children" then yes, I'd like to see them sacked for it. 

Different I know, but using your example....! 

I'd expect anyone who posts that to their social network page to be a) already be arrested & b) to of already had the living daylight beaten out of them, regardless of them now being famous or no.

Why has Andre Gray been made to pay for his derogatory post now he's a Premier League footballer? What makes it worse 4 years after he actually made the comments & has now apologised & explained where he was in his life (at the time).

The FA were still (technically) in charge of him while he was playing non-league football, he clearly hadn't deleted the post in those 4 years so it was available for anyone to read but they waited until he became a Premier League player before deciding to do something about it. Sorry but I just don't see how or why the FA have decided to take action 4 years after the offence occurred!!

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

I'd expect anyone who posts that to their social network page to be a) already arrested & b) to of already had the living daylight beaten out of them, regardless of them now being famous or no.

Why has Andre Gray been made to pay for his derogatory post now he's a Premier League footballer? What makes it worse 4 years after he actually made the comments & has now apologised & explained where he was in his life (at the time).

The FA were still (technically) in charge of him while he was playing non-league football, he clearly hadn't deleted the post in those 4 years so it was available for anyone to read but they waited until he became a Premier League player before deciding to do something about it. Sorry but I just don't see how or why the FA have decided to take action 4 years after the offence occurred!!

Very true and point well made. It's so the premier league/FA can do their bit for gay relations I guess. 

Maybe they just feel they couldn't ignore it after it had been bought back into people's view and is now more high profile. 

Imo this is more deserving of involvement from authorities than the ex Cardiff manager (name escapes me) who got into trouble for a racist joke text message sent between 2 people in private that got leaked. That was intrusive, whereas Gray put his comments out there into the public domain to cause offense. 

[Tipps69]

15 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Very true and point well made. It's so the premier league/FA can do their bit for gay relations I guess. 

Maybe they just feel they couldn't ignore it after it had been bought back into people's view and is now more high profile. 

Imo this is more deserving of involvement from authorities than the ex Cardiff manager (name escapes me) who got into trouble for a racist joke text message sent between 2 people in private that got leaked. That was intrusive, whereas Gray put his comments out there into the public domain to cause offense. 

Malky MacKay.........

I just thought the topic was something worth debating, I in no way condone what he did previously but how would City fans feel if Lee Tomlin or Aden Flint got done for similar for something that they said while playing for Peterborough or Swindon? Why should we be punished for it?

The same as why should Burnley be punished? Fine him, at least that way Burnley won't lose arguably their most influential player for 4 games for something that had nothing to do with Burnley. Their job is hard enough to try & stay in the division without losing their main goalscorer for so many games.

[East End Old Boy]

5 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

 Sorry but I just don't see how or why the FA have decided to take action 4 years after the offence occurred!!

Because he now has disposable income which the FA can take a share of!

[Benjam!n Ultra]

Funny how it all surfaced after he scored twice against Liverpool. 

[East End Old Boy]

6 minutes ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

Funny how it all surfaced after he scored twice against Liverpool. 

Come on, you know it's never "their" fault!

[daored]

Unfortunately it's the world we live in. I know if I had made such comments I would face disciplinary action. However, whilst I haven't, it would be unusual for someone to trawl through any such comments. One of the reasons apart from this forum I'm not on social media. 

Clearly based on his tweets he certainly had, maybe still does homophobic views. For me, it's more important to educate than punish. I'm surprised Burnley haven't appealed the punishment. Maybe there is more to this than has been disclosed?

[sglosbcfc]

Gray apologised and said he was a different character now. I think his 'punishment' should have been some hours representing the FA in some local schools speaking out against racism, homophobia, sexism and other forms of discriminatory behaviour. Banning him for four games just punishes Burnley and their fans and he wasn't even under Burnley's care when he tweeted that.

[reddogkev]

Very surprised Burnley accepted this.  They've now lost their major asset for a considerable amount of game time.  This was absolutely nothing to do with Burnley, and they are being most significantly punished.

Agree the player should be punished in some degree, irrespective of when the vile comments appeared - would've thought a suitable fine would be more appropriate.

[havanatopia]

Poor remarks said today or ten years ago; i would be mercillously tough by extracting as much money from his pay packet as possible and ensuring he hands it over to a relevant and deserving charity of the ilk he is remarking on. I would not ban him at all though. 

[redcityman]

7 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Gray apologised and said he was a different character now. I think his 'punishment' should have been some hours representing the FA in some local schools speaking out against racism, homophobia, sexism and other forms of discriminatory behaviour. Banning him for four games just punishes Burnley and their fans and he wasn't even under Burnley's care when he tweeted that.

Playing devils advocate here, imagine a guy commits a crime but isn't charged, cleans up his life and becomes a good family man, years later he ends up charged with said crime from his previous life and found guilty, should his children be punished for what he did when he was a different man?

 

I guess the moral of this story is to be wary of what you post on the internet, many a career is open to ruin by what people post online.

And for anyone who bemoans the fact he had a poor family etc, there are plenty of poor people living in deprived areas, doesnt make them ignorant people!

If anyone is to blame, blame his parents, as good manners and a civil tongue are absolutely free.

[spudski]

I'd quiet easily believe all these tweets have been taken out of context.

When he says 'Everywhere'...I bet he means in the media and on TV etc.

And I'd bet it wasn't 'Gay people he hated'...but the constant media fascination, of putting the like of Pete Burns in the public eye.

They are not your average Gay person...you wouldn't know an average gay person if they were sat next to you at the Gate. They look and speak normal like everyone else.

The problem the Gay community have is how it's portrayed in the media and on TV.

You are bombarded with overtly sexual people, often a 'Cartoon' of themselves....mincing about in a manner that used to have 'shock value'...as in 'look at me, look at me'.

It doesn't help 'their cause' of being 'excepted'.

If you want to be 'excepted'...then stop forcing it in peoples face....in a provocative manner. How is society meant to take them seriously, if all you see is the 'extreme end of the spectrum'. Blokes mincing about in heels, make up etc...is not your average gay bloke...so why bombard the TV with such like...or when marching with 'Gay Pride' do the same? In fact if gay people want to be 'excepted' stop making yourselves 'different'...why march and have 'Gay pride'...it makes them stand out as different. In the same way as if I marched in 'Straight and Proud of it'...

I know lads who aren't haters of gay people...but they are haters of seeing what I've mentioned all the time. It 'boils their piss' a phrase I heard recently by one of them.

Forcing people and telling them they Have too except something, just makes them resent it even more...especially when the extreme is often portrayed.

Funnily these lads drink with a gay lad and have no problem with him, because he's just one of the lads. If he minced into the pub being loud and extrovert and in your face looking like Pete Burns, it might be different though. In the same way, they get pissed off with the local girl, who walks in looking like a hooker and is loud and brash...'in a look at me' sort of way....needing all the attention.

Just my experience...

 

[alexukhc]

Horrible man, good player

[sglosbcfc]

Spud ski, you mean accepted not excepted. You make some valid points, some people dislike 'over the top' people whether they are gay or not. It is dangerous territory but of course gay people are very prominent in the media in the same way Jews are very prominent in certain professions. Allowing for all of that, Gray's tweets could not be allowed to pass without censure. I just think the 4 game ban is unfair and doing some work to tackle discriminatory behaviour would be much more worthwhile.

[Tipps69]

34 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Gray apologised and said he was a different character now. I think his 'punishment' should have been some hours representing the FA in some local schools speaking out against racism, homophobia, sexism and other forms of discriminatory behaviour. Banning him for four games just punishes Burnley and their fans and he wasn't even under Burnley's care when he tweeted that.

 

29 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Very surprised Burnley accepted this.  They've now lost their major asset for a considerable amount of game time.  This was absolutely nothing to do with Burnley, and they are being most significantly punished.

Agree the player should be punished in some degree, irrespective of when the vile comments appeared - would've thought a suitable fine would be more appropriate.

I think along with his ban he has to attend some form of lessons to teach him / re-educate him (something along those lines).

As for appealing his punishment, I think that was done when he chose a personal hearing into the matter but to me, that is two separate things, he appealed against the charges by apologising & explaining the circumstances. The FA threw that out & have now given him his punishment which it seems like he & Burnley has to accept with no further appeal / plea which again seems unfair to me!!

23 minutes ago, redcityman said:

Playing devils advocate here, imagine a guy commits a crime but isn't charged, cleans up his life and becomes a good family man, years later he ends up charged with said crime from his previous life and found guilty, should his children be punished for what he did when he was a different man?

But there is a difference between causing a criminal offence (assault of any sort etc) & saying bad words & then getting done for it years down the line.

As an example (and maybe a bad one), if you get caught speeding, the laws that be have 14 days to bring action against you, so why is there no limit to someone saying nasty things years ago when they were "a different person"?

I could maybe understand it if he had made a personal attack against someone but it seems like this was a general comment so was not aimed at any one person in particular.

Years ago when I was a young lad (back in the 80's), there was lots of comments / jokes made about AIDS, it was because people were uneducated but as soon as more people understood everything about AIDS it was unacceptable to carry on with the same comments / jokes & I don't remember anyone ever being pulled up for it over the years & I include many high profile comedians who used to use such material in their acts.........