Thoughts on tonight

[bexhill reds]

Lots of interesting views, personally I thought Flint and Magnusson had too much to deal with last night, QPR's lad up front was useful in the air combined with the fact that we lost the ball too much in midfield which meant that they were constantly having to defend.

Like Cardiff, QPR packed the midfield and gave us little space, we've got to have an effective plan B, our passing last night was mostly inside our half with a couple of midfield interchanges, back out to the fullbacks, back to midfield, then to Flint or Magnusson with either a straight or angled hoof up front. Tammy is not a ball holding target man and Tomlin not a tricky beat the full back to the touchline winger.

I thought Matthews had a good game, looking very composed, and Brownhill did lots of closing work in midfield to try and link with Tammy.

Overall we got what we deserved last night, QPR had enough corners and half chances to have scored a couple more.

Interesting that Tammy walked straight off after the game with acknowledging the supporters, perhaps upset about losing the ball which set up their goal or the bollocking he got from Wilbs just before the end of the game when they both jumped for the same ball. I think he needs a break or some support up front, he's still a kid that's learning, and we don't need to burn him out.

 

[Son of Fred]

9 hours ago, RedDave said:

Agree on the passing but you can't lose every header as a centre back. He was used to launch their attacks.  Needs to learn how to get off the ground 

When Ekstrsnd is fit he has to play...again,when fit get Korey in alongside O'Neil.and of course we need another striking option,even when(or if) Engval is match ready..we shouldn't heap too much on Tammy's young shoulders as it could backfire on us.would even consider bringing Burns back I January,as well as a new face, just to add another mix to the bag..

[Garland-sweden]

Thanks for the report. Really hope a win saturday. Always Believe, COYR!!!

[Olé]

5 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Interesting that Tammy walked straight off after the game with acknowledging the supporters, perhaps upset about losing the ball which set up their goal or the bollocking he got from Wilbs just before the end of the game when they both jumped for the same ball. I think he needs a break or some support up front, he's still a kid that's learning, and we don't need to burn him out.

I also noticed after the goal he was very emotional and had a bit of an arm-waving rant at Joe Bryan, I was trying to work out from the body language what was going on, as Joe didn't put an arm round him I surmised Tammy wasn't being self critical and angry with himself, but was really having a go at Joe for reasons I couldn't pick up from the goal. Behaviour like that is out of character for Tammy and is a sign he is going to need emotional and physical breaks.

I had the exact same reaction as you after that incident and the Wilbraham one, if we're not careful we'll burn the lad out if we don't take the pressure of him to lead the line in every game. From what LJ has said before, Tammy sounds like the sort of player who will always want to play and need to play, and I wonder if that puts us in a tough position with his care and development because we don't want him simply complaining to Chelsea he's not been played.

[ExiledAjax]

10 hours ago, RedDave said:

Flint - 7 - won everything in the air which unfortunately wasn't loads as QPR exposed Magnusson all game

Magnusson - 4 - I think he lost every single header and was targeted throughout the game

I'd agree with the sentiment on here that this is a bit off.  After about ten minutes I said to the guy next to me that the defence was asking Magnusson to do the entire job.  He seemed to be playing left back, left-centre back and right-centre back with Bryan nowhere to be seen and Flint struggling.  Add to that Flint's woeful back pass and further great blocks from Magnusson - who's positioning and reading of runs is very good I think - and I'd probably just give them both a 6...because yes Flint was good in the air (although I'm sure i remember one or two lost battles).

As for other players.

Tomlin sometimes just sees a pass or a run that players like O'Dowda, Reid and Brownhill don't.  The problem is that Tomlin doesn't realise this and so still attempts that pass.  Several times last night he tried a cute ball for someone else to run onto - but they'd either checked their run or not even started it.  This lost us position and we were vulnerable on the counter.

O'Dowda was off last night.  The lad needs to run at people more often and use his obvious pace and power to overcome a slight technical deficiency.  I'd also love to see him shoot more often.  To be fair to him I thought their left back had a good game.

Having said that of their left back I thought we looked far more threatening once Tomlin and O'Dowda switched flanks.  Tomlin seemed to have more time on the ball and if he'd had a better final ball into the box then maybe some chances would have come.

In general we played better than on Friday but it was an incredibly flat game with little to excite the crowd from either side.  I wouldn't be surprised if we're 10th and QPR are 11th come May.

[RedM]

35 minutes ago, Olé said:

I also noticed after the goal he was very emotional and had a bit of an arm-waving rant at Joe Bryan, I was trying to work out from the body language what was going on, as Joe didn't put an arm round him I surmised Tammy wasn't being self critical and angry with himself, but was really having a go at Joe for reasons I couldn't pick up from the goal. Behaviour like that is out of character for Tammy and is a sign he is going to need emotional and physical breaks.

I had the exact same reaction as you after that incident and the Wilbraham one, if we're not careful we'll burn the lad out if we don't take the pressure of him to lead the line in every game. From what LJ has said before, Tammy sounds like the sort of player who will always want to play and need to play, and I wonder if that puts us in a tough position with his care and development because we don't want him simply complaining to Chelsea he's not been played.

Interesting observations on Tammy, I wasn't there but in no way doubt your observations. I'm thinking of course Tammy wants to play, but it's part of his learning that he really doesn't recognise yet when he needs to rest, recover and recouperate, both mentally and physically. This is down to Lee as manager and his staff. I doubt if they have been in this situation either. They are dealing with a hugely talented young player on loan from a massive club, they have yo do right by him, his club and of course Bristol City who have become very reliant on him.

It's a difficult set of cards to play as there is seemingly not so many options to shuffle the pack regarding strikers, so a learning curve for all concerned whilst dealing with expectations from fans.

[Ashtonwurzel]

We have to have more that one style of play and be able to switch formations quickly. The season has gone well up to now but other sides have had time to work out our style of play and likely formation for the start of every game. As has been said previous if teams stand off us and give us time to play a nice high tempo short passing game then we will at times shred teams but even bang average sides (Cardiff and QPR) can shut us down easily with a high pressure game, our players bar maybe Tomlin and O'Neil struggle to cope when put under intense pressure on the ball.

LJ has done well in changing things later in games but we need to be more flexible and adaptable form the start of games and therefore impose ourselves on the opposition from the get go rather than fire fighting mid way through the game.

Am confident this will happen though.

[And Its Smith]

8 hours ago, Benni said:

NO, he should have been aware of the player behind him and be ready to stop the ball going past him, which he didn't. He was too busy doing nothing.

Reid missed a great chance to make it 1-0 and he got a 6, Tammy missed a great chance and lost the ball in midfield which cost us the goal, and eventually the match and he got a 6. Magnusson lost headers but didn't have anything to do with the goal, he got a 4. You're talking out of your arse, that's my point.

Try going to the game before criticising someone's opinion of the game.

[mattjtsmith]

I think actually our weakness is getting wide. I'm sure in an ideal world we would have Tomlin CAM with two wide men either side. The problem we have is a lot of quality CM (GON, MP, BR, KS) and a lot of quality CAM (LT, LF, JP) but not a lot of naturally wide players. That's why I think COD got a decent amount of time on the ball first half. Teams know we're central and overload that area to stop us playing our game. I think JP has potential as does COD but LF just not good enough in those wide positions and actually this is the place we need to strengthen. Naturally wide players will give more chance for the likes of little and Bryan to overlap as well, which they can do really well

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, mattjtsmith said:

I think actually our weakness is getting wide. I'm sure in an ideal world we would have Tomlin CAM with two wide men either side. The problem we have is a lot of quality CM (GON, MP, BR, KS) and a lot of quality CAM (LT, LF, JP) but not a lot of naturally wide players. That's why I think COD got a decent amount of time on the ball first half. Teams know we're central and overload that area to stop us playing our game. I think JP has potential as does COD but LF just not good enough in those wide positions and actually this is the place we need to strengthen. Naturally wide players will give more chance for the likes of little and Bryan to overlap as well, which they can do really well

Good points.  I think it's clear we were trying to get the ball wide last night, then cross it in for Tammy/Wilbs to nick the goal.  Trouble was Tomlin was wasted out there - in my opinion in that situation he should be hovering in the D waiting for the rebound.  Bryan has a decent cross in him but he can't push forward when he's been told he's the left back.

Do you have any idea who you might like us to sign in those wide positions?  January approaches rapidly.

[Puckle_red]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

I also noticed after the goal he was very emotional and had a bit of an arm-waving rant at Joe Bryan, I was trying to work out from the body language what was going on, as Joe didn't put an arm round him I surmised Tammy wasn't being self critical and angry with himself, but was really having a go at Joe for reasons I couldn't pick up from the goal. Behaviour like that is out of character for Tammy and is a sign he is going to need emotional and physical breaks.

I had the exact same reaction as you after that incident and the Wilbraham one, if we're not careful we'll burn the lad out if we don't take the pressure of him to lead the line in every game. From what LJ has said before, Tammy sounds like the sort of player who will always want to play and need to play, and I wonder if that puts us in a tough position with his care and development because we don't want him simply complaining to Chelsea he's not been played.

That rant of Tammy's wasn't at JB. It was in response to Pemberton suggesting in no uncertain terms that he shouldn't have given the ball away in a poor area. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

I also noticed after the goal he was very emotional and had a bit of an arm-waving rant at Joe Bryan, I was trying to work out from the body language what was going on, as Joe didn't put an arm round him I surmised Tammy wasn't being self critical and angry with himself, but was really having a go at Joe for reasons I couldn't pick up from the goal. Behaviour like that is out of character for Tammy and is a sign he is going to need emotional and physical breaks.

I had the exact same reaction as you after that incident and the Wilbraham one, if we're not careful we'll burn the lad out if we don't take the pressure of him to lead the line in every game. From what LJ has said before, Tammy sounds like the sort of player who will always want to play and need to play, and I wonder if that puts us in a tough position with his care and development because we don't want him simply complaining to Chelsea he's not been played.

I get the impression with him that he's not as laid back as he seems. To me he seems very driven and ambitious (I guess you have to be if you have real ambitions of 'making it' at a club like Chelsea.)

There's also been a few hints from LJ that perhaps he has a bit of an ego. Comments to the effect of 'we'll need to keep his feet on the ground' etc. Just what I picked up from them. Again, I guess it's a by-product of having your formative years in such a cut-throat competitive environment but being very successful.

He's had a very demanding year without much of a break, there's definitely a risk of him burning out or losing a bit of form. If that happens, I hope we're prepared. We still look a bit light in striker options to me.

[Fiale]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

I also noticed after the goal he was very emotional and had a bit of an arm-waving rant at Joe Bryan, I was trying to work out from the body language what was going on, as Joe didn't put an arm round him I surmised Tammy wasn't being self critical and angry with himself, but was really having a go at Joe for reasons I couldn't pick up from the goal. Behaviour like that is out of character for Tammy and is a sign he is going to need emotional and physical breaks.

I had the exact same reaction as you after that incident and the Wilbraham one, if we're not careful we'll burn the lad out if we don't take the pressure of him to lead the line in every game. From what LJ has said before, Tammy sounds like the sort of player who will always want to play and need to play, and I wonder if that puts us in a tough position with his care and development because we don't want him simply complaining to Chelsea he's not been played.

I posted the pictures in the matchday thread but it's basically this

 

 

Bryan is the player bottom left I think, he was top right of the picture but tore down the line to give an attacking option - Tammy lost the ball though, and the QPR player had all that space to use as Bryan was out of position. It was 3 QPR players v's Mags and ?O'Neil? .. with our and QPR players rushing in to support/close down... not sure if it was Tammys fault for not passing, or Joes for leaving his position

 

with amazing photoshopping

 

[bexhill reds]

We've got to keep Tammy in perspective here, he's obviously hugely talented and can go on to be a top player. He's had an amazing start to his career in senior football, but he's still learning and now he is learning about some of the darker arts of the professional game, not necessarily overly physical kicked up in the air stuff, but the little bits of shirt pulling, arm holding, nudges and bumps that all escape under an official's radar, but serve to stop him from being as effective. Sol Bamba did an excellent job on him at Cardiff, and the 2 QPR centre backs did likewise last night, so you can sense why he might have got himself so upset. I suspect as added pressure he would have wanted to put on a show for watching family, friends and Chelsea staff for what effectively would have been a home game for him last night.

I don't think we are currently playing to his strengths, he is strong, he can head the ball and but he is very quick from a standing start and has great close control, we need to get the ball to his feet so he can turn his centre half or play in behind them for him to run onto, but he is not going to win a header against 2 centre halves and hold the ball up for the midfield to catch up, which seemed to be last night's fare.

Like other posters have said based on the last 2 games we need to get wider, personally I would put JB in as a left winger with SG in as left back, and stick with O'Dowda on the other flank, he at least on occasion tried to beat his man last night, but he has enough raw pace to be able to run on to wide through balls. Getting balls in from the by line for Tammy to run onto would make him much more effective and create the space for Tomlin to do his thing.

Hopefully the coaching team and senior pro's will have a word with the lad and maybe run through a match video with him pointing out the good and the bad. Our future is definately bright.

[Lanterne Rouge]

I didn`t go last night but picking through all the comments from those that did it seems Adam Matthews had a fairly good game which can only be a positive to take away from the match.

Am I reading it right that he did look much improved?

[Coppello]

13 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I didn`t go last night but picking through all the comments from those that did it seems Adam Matthews had a fairly good game which can only be a positive to take away from the match.

Am I reading it right that he did look much improved?

Yeah, he looked very good and was probably my MOM. He is the polar opposite of Mark Little, more composed on the ball but didn't seem to want to bomb forward yesterday.

[Coppello]

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I get the impression with him that he's not as laid back as he seems. To me he seems very driven and ambitious (I guess you have to be if you have real ambitions of 'making it' at a club like Chelsea.)

There's also been a few hints from LJ that perhaps he has a bit of an ego. Comments to the effect of 'we'll need to keep his feet on the ground' etc. Just what I picked up from them. Again, I guess it's a by-product of having your formative years in such a cut-throat competitive environment but being very successful.

He's had a very demanding year without much of a break, there's definitely a risk of him burning out or losing a bit of form. If that happens, I hope we're prepared. We still look a bit light in striker options to me.

I don't want to slate Tammy as he is obviously very talented and its unfair to criticise him after having an off day which all strikers have. However, watching him warm up yesterday he didn't really look up for the game. During the running drills he was plodding along behind the rest of the group, making no effort to accelerate or keep up with the rest of the group. It was a similar story when stretching and doing a few passing drills. 

I understand that he has been ill in the build up to the game and maybe he didn't want to wear himself out pre game or Johnson told him to take it easy. Perhaps going through this dry patch (of two games!) will keep the lad hungry and may act as a slight wake up call that perhaps the Championship isn't as easy as he has been finding it. Like I said, I don't want to slate Tammy as has brought so much to the table since joining but I hope he keeps the same desire throughout the whole season.