WECANDO Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw our players get into positions to defend corners last night (Also previous games). Our best aerial players, Flint, Moore and Pack all congregated around the penalty spot or close to our goal. Where were their threatening players? About 15 foot away getting ready to make runs to meet the corner kick coming over. So who do you put your money on to win the ball in the air. Maguire, Dawson and Davies running into meet the ball or our three rooted to the spot trying to jump upwards? Reverse the situation and Hull's defenders are tight on our big headers and prepared to block their runs. It also concerns me that our right back tucks in so close to the centre backs thereby leaving the opponents wide player bags of room to get the ball. Luckily the Blackburn player was slow and couldn't make use of the space. The Hull player did. That said, I was very encouraged by the performances of Engvall and Moore. Both pushing hard to start games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I paused Dawson's free header on Sky to see where the City defenders were. It looked as if they were zonal marking and the last they zonal marked they conceded two goals......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Zonal marking. I don't like it. I don't know why anybody thinks it's better than man to man marking, at set pieces. Mind you, if Joey had made a header and Pack hadn't been so flat footed, then both goals could/should have been stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 11 minutes ago, WECANDO said: I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw our players get into positions to defend corners last night (Also previous games). Our best aerial players, Flint, Moore and Pack all congregated around the penalty spot or close to our goal. Where were their threatening players? About 15 foot away getting ready to make runs to meet the corner kick coming over. So who do you put your money on to win the ball in the air. Maguire, Dawson and Davies running into meet the ball or our three rooted to the spot trying to jump upwards? Reverse the situation and Hull's defenders are tight on our big headers and prepared to block their runs. It also concerns me that our right back tucks in so close to the centre backs thereby leaving the opponents wide player bags of room to get the ball. Luckily the Blackburn player was slow and couldn't make use of the space. The Hull player did. That said, I was very encouraged by the performances of Engvall and Moore. Both pushing hard to start games. Full backs-one on each post-known danger men,someone to pick up their run and at the very least get in a challenge strong enough to make a goalscoring header unlikely-even if you don't get yer head to the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheddarReds Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I think refs have been told to keep an eye on pushing and pulling at corners, so I expect to see more teams try to use zonal marking at corners. There are arguments for it, Benitez used it at Liverpool, for example (who were twice best at defending set pieces in the premier league per season). It also can be useful (when properly executed, unlike us) if like us we have quite a few players on the smaller side. It's difficult to get right though and requires a lot of practice before it can be used effectively. Unfortunately for us we didn't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 A lot of the top coaches make their team zonal mark so can't be too bad a policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I was trying to decide earlier whether it's true/reasonable to say it's impossible to score from a corner unless the defensive team makes a mistake. Certainly I can't imagine Johnson'll be happy with the defending for either goal last night. I do think a bit too much gets made of the zonal vs man-to-man marking debate. Ultimately what's important is not which system is used but whether the defending team understand and feel comfortable with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatalist Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I was trying to decide earlier whether it's true/reasonable to say it's impossible to score from a corner unless the defensive team makes a mistake. Certainly I can't imagine Johnson'll be happy with the defending for either goal last night. I do think a bit too much gets made of the zonal vs man-to-man marking debate. Ultimately what's important is not which system is used but whether the defending team understand and feel comfortable with it. Oddly enough, Johnson said he wasn't unhappy, as "Hull always have a big team". He didn't mention that McGuire's goal was his first for Hull, so they are hardly scoring from corners every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I was trying to decide earlier whether it's true/reasonable to say it's impossible to score from a corner unless the defensive team makes a mistake. Certainly I can't imagine Johnson'll be happy with the defending for either goal last night. I do think a bit too much gets made of the zonal vs man-to-man marking debate. Ultimately what's important is not which system is used but whether the defending team understand and feel comfortable with it. Zonal marking can be very effective as long as the defenders know how it works. To get accustomed to it then it needs to be practiced on the training ground over and over so that it becomes an instinctive and natural way to defend set plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original OTIB Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 The small team thing is nonsense. One of our biggest weaknesses is not just zonal marking but also not attacking the ball. Pack (6' 2") is very guilty of this. Last night he did not attack the ball that Dawson (6' 2") did. Exactly the same for the Sheffield Wednesday corner goal. Go back further and you will see that he is a repeat offender in this regard. He simply does not get off the ground and attack the ball ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Call me old fashioned but I like man marking in the box with two fullbacks on either stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Acton Red Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Fatalist said: Oddly enough, Johnson said he wasn't unhappy, as "Hull always have a big team". He didn't mention that McGuire's goal was his first for Hull, so they are hardly scoring from corners every week. I was a really poor goal to give away,none of our defenders were any where near him.As for R.O.D he just stood there like a madam tussouds waxwork,made no effort to save at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted October 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Alan Dicks. I believe City did that later in the game. Someone running and jumping will always get up higher than someone standing still and then jumping. It's easy to block the opposing teams runs if your stood by them. That's what Hull did to City. Pack doesn't seem to be getting so much height these days. Can't get over how good Wilbs is. He was pretty sluggish in towards the end of Cotterells time but now he's aggressive and gets around. Had a good game against Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityred exile Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 3 hours ago, Alan Dicks said: Call me old fashioned but I like man marking in the box with two fullbacks on either stick That's what we are all taught at a young age , it amazes me that not longer seems important or used any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Alan Dicks said: Call me old fashioned but I like man marking in the box with two fullbacks on either stick It's not old fashioned, it's correct. Leave a short quick player up front so they keep two back, one on each post, and with the taker you have enough for man marking for the rest of them. Doing it any other way is plain wrong and modern coaches are guilty of over thinking this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I've got no history of football marking but when I played I always man marked and I'm a firm believer in it. Mark up, be strong and win your aerial battle or at least put them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandare 1966 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Keeper no ware for the first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 16 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: Zonal marking. I don't like it. I don't know why anybody thinks it's better than man to man marking, at set pieces. Mind you, if Joey had made a header and Pack hadn't been so flat footed, then both goals could/should have been stopped. Pretty sure when done right zonal is far more effective- didn't the Arsenal "Invincibles" team use zonal marking? If the linesman or referee were competent the first goal wouldn't have counted regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Poor defending also Fielding should of saved the first one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Super said: Poor defending also Fielding should of saved the first one Bit harsh on Frankie, considering he wasn't in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 10 hours ago, Nibor said: It's not old fashioned, it's correct. Leave a short quick player up front so they keep two back, one on each post, and with the taker you have enough for man marking for the rest of them. Doing it any other way is plain wrong and modern coaches are guilty of over thinking this. Sorry mate I disagree, if you're so ******* good at making these decisions why are you not getting paid thousands a week. Obviously it's not the best way to defend corners or the likes of Mourinho and Pep would do it. So rarely are corners defended like that anymore and there's a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Super said: Poor defending also Fielding should of saved the first one Nah, that one was all Jamo's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 8 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: Nah, that one was all Jamo's fault. No way was it the keepers fault. Nicky Hunt should have done a lot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 28 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Bit harsh on Frankie, considering he wasn't in the squad. I will give myself a few.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 10 hours ago, Nibor said: It's not old fashioned, it's correct. Leave a short quick player up front so they keep two back, one on each post, and with the taker you have enough for man marking for the rest of them. Doing it any other way is plain wrong and modern coaches are guilty of over thinking this. I don't know how you can so confidently say that with your chest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Super said: Poor defending also Fielding should of saved the first one He would have to have had very, very, very, long arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Having watched the second goal v Hull a obvious question would be what zones are City's players defending? The Hull player scores from - The centre of the goal/penalty spot. No player was defending that space. That is not zonal marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 It wasn't the tactics, the teams changes or the zonal marking at fault for the second goal. Somebody made a mistake and fell asleep on the job. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Dawsons goal is down to a tactical flaws. He does nothing special to run to the penalty spot. No obvious bending of runs, no blockers, nothing. Run into space dead centre , bang .. That is not zonal marking. That is a team not knowing what it is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I have to admit to be firmly in the camp that prefers man to man marking over zonal marking. While I wouldn't disagree that either can be effective when working well, the zonal system provides for a more likely mismatch in the penalty area than the dedicated man to man system. I note that most football pundits are now decrying the fall in standards of defending across the major European leagues, which they seem to be laying at the door of the rigid desire for centre backs (some best described as lumbering) to bring the ball out of defence, and zonal marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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