So what were your thoughts ?

[Donkeeebles]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

He should have been screaming to push out, the MF were on top of the back 4. 

We had restricted Reading to long shots until Wilbs came on , there was obviously a little more room as Korey pushed into the 4. I get that LJ wanted the ball to stick a little but he'd have been better off giving Tomlin a run . He could have held it and ran with it, if we had had a DM on the bench we could have continued to clog the MF for space. Too many crazy decisions today.

Like I said I don't think we were allowed to push out because we kept giving the ball away

I agree Wilbs might not have been the right player, I'm not convinced Tomlin would be either though. At the time I did say I'd bring on Engvail and try to hit him down the channels. I do agree bringing Reid on for the injured O'Dowda was a strange one. 

We hadn't restricted them to long shots when Wilbs came on at all, they'd already scored once.

Anyway I'm not absolving LJ of any blame but I still feel he was let down by some players giving the ball away in the last 30 mins when they simply shouldn't 

[1960maaan]

13 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

Like I said I don't think we were allowed to push out because we kept giving the ball away

I agree Wilbs might not have been the right player, I'm not convinced Tomlin would be either though. At the time I did say I'd bring on Engvail and try to hit him down the channels. I do agree bringing Reid on for the injured O'Dowda was a strange one. 

We hadn't restricted them to long shots when Wilbs came on at all, they'd already scored once.

Anyway I'm not absolving LJ of any blame but I still feel he was let down by some players giving the ball away in the last 30 mins when they simply shouldn't 

Don't disagree at all, we've done this all year it's been glaringly obvious at times. 

I still think the first goal was the first time anyone had found space in the box, bad defending. Apart from that they hadn't created much until the changes,  it did feel like waiting for the inevitable though.

[Donkeeebles]

8 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Don't disagree at all, we've done this all year it's been glaringly obvious at times. 

I still think the first goal was the first time anyone had found space in the box, bad defending. Apart from that they hadn't created much until the changes,  it did feel like waiting for the inevitable though.

Yeah sorry I agree with that, I was trying to say that happened before Wilbs came on 

[Guest]

My thoughts?

On a personal note, I thought 2016 was a good year. I was starting to worry for musicians of a certain age. I'd like to win the lottery if possible this year because I think I deserve to retire.

Oh, and I'd like to see City win a couple of games soon just because all this 'sack LJ', "LJ out' stuff is getting a little tedious.

If we don't win by end of January, we are in the proverbial and LJ has to go. Until then... I'll hold my nerve.

[Trueredsupporter]

Brownhill and Bryan did well. but why and how has Lee Johnson spent eleven million to put ten men behind the ball and play counter attack at home????

[AppyDAZE]

I don't think I've seen this said tonight, and maybe because of our own predicament it isn't important.. I thought THEY were a really, really good side. And are gonna have a decent shout for promotion (probably via the P/Os . Loads of self-belief  even at 2-0. stuck to the their game plan. pass,  move fair play Reading

[robin_unreliant]

7 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

I don't think I've seen this said tonight, and maybe because of our own predicament it isn't important.. I thought THEY were a really, really good side. And are gonna have a decent shout for promotion (probably via the P/Os . Loads of self-belief  even at 2-0. stuck to the their game plan. pass,  move fair play Reading

First half they looked average and that is being generous. I think the difference was belief. They are on a winning run and believe they will turn it around. We made it easy for them 2nd half by surrendering 80% of the pitch to them. Wasn't impressed by their play at all and felt Lee threw away the game with poor subs. It looked like our players felt the same way as the crowd as soon as we let one in - we will throw this away. Was more our ineptitude than their quality.

[Dr Balls]

Have to agree with so much on this thread. LJ set us up to try not to concede & try to score on the break. With Tammy heroic up front  both Bryan & Brownhill did really well in midfield for 3/4 of the match, doing a lot of running down the Reading midfield. 3 against 2 in the middle worked but only as long as they didn't tire. But come 70 mins they were knackered & dropped back further and closed down less & less. All 3 of their goals came from that tiredness, exploited for the first 2 by the fresh legs of tiny Liam Kelly running into space. Also poor marking in central defence for the first 2 goals. Flint gave far too much space to the goal scorers on both occasions. Great in the air, less so when it's on the ground. Tried really hard to organise the defence & really cares but needs some central defensive quality next to him & fast.

The substitutions & the bench both seem bizarre. Why only Bobby Reid as a central midfielder to come on? Why no Pack as well? It was obvious with these tactics that the central midfielders would likely need replacing with fresh legs. Also who was there with any experience who could replace a central defender injury other than Pack? Matthews may be a defender but central defender he is not!

Wilbraham could only come on to replace Tammy. As has been said going to 4-4-2 at that stage with the same tired midfield was frankly suicidal. And so it proved!

All so frustrating. There were bright points. Little probably played his best game of the season. Joe Bryan plays his best in central midfield. Brownhill has potential. Tammy is a star. On the other side, we obviously need cover at central defender yet we have let Moore go out on loan. Also bizarre. O'Dowda did nothing much & that has to be the softest penalty at AG in some time.

The reality is that football is a game of 90 minutes and we have perhaps played well for all 90 just once this season at Fulham. We scored our first 1st half goal at home from open play more than halfway through the season. We concede too many goals from 85 minutes onwards. We desperately need more experience throughout the team. The whole summer recruitment policy is currently looking questionable. Compare our team to Reading's and they were clearly more experienced. And the only City player who would make a starting 11 of a combined team of the 2 sides would be Tammy. And he will be gone at the end of the season.

Inexperienced manager, inexperienced players, some of whom probably aren't good enough at this level as it stands, we have no consistent formation or style, let alone first 11, and now we are in a relegation battle whilst on a truly horrific run of results. We aren't getting thumped by anyone but the reality is that we are still losing. And losing. And losing.

Something has to change. But LJ looks like he knows Lansdown will continue to support him at least for now. But the games against Cardiff & Forest have become huge 6-pointers. Lose those and perhaps even SL's patience will be tested. Certainly LJ is losing the support of the fans at an even more dramatic rate than Cotterill ever did.

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

First half they looked average and that is being generous. I think the difference was belief. They are on a winning run and believe they will turn it around. We made it easy for them 2nd half by surrenering 80% of the pitch to them. Wasn't impressed by their play at all and felt Lee threw away the game with poor subs.

fair play, but cannot agree. Nor does the table . 3rd in a tough tough league

[Fiale]

I did not think Reading looked great, then again nor did Brighton. What these teams do is the basics well, generally pretty good defensively and able to pass the ball across the back four. They make simple passes and probe until something opens up or the opposition makes a mistake. There was no... well what I would call flair, or brilliance about Reading just they did not give up possession to often, their passes found their targets more often than not so not putting themselves under pressure. The teams at the top bar Newcastle (and maybe Huddersfield who's play style i liked)  I would describe as reliable, nothing else. Surely that is something we can do, and build on.

 

 

[Olé]

I don’t know where to start. There are about 30 different threads on here saying the same thing. This looked like the most reasonable debate so I've decided to add my belated (insomnia driven) thoughts here.

The Wolves and Ipswich games seemed to make me a lot more prepared for that display, as I looked round at people howling their discontent and saying that was as bad as it gets. It wasn’t - it was a bit better than the efforts over Christmas, so there was your progress for the week, if you’re looking for crumbs of comfort! It was also spirited, given it was probably the last 14 that will still play for this manager.

Notwithstanding the now customary late collapse, I hope we’ve learned one thing once and for all - this is not a defensive problem. Flint, for all the garbage spouted by at least one genius on here, was an absolute warrior, and yet again threw himself at everything. Little played out of his skin. Goldbourne did a good job. The full backs looked as solid as they were at Ipswich (before LJ pulled them both off).

In midfield Bryan was oddly galvanised by the responsibility of central midfield and appeared more ready to affect the game positively, even if his touch and pass still sometimes deserted him. Brownhill was every bit as bright and willing and an example to the rest of the team as he was at Ipswich, even if he is still young and raw. And Freeman, continued to probe and work, as limited as he is by pace.

We were by no means a 2-0 team that the score suggested, but relative to performances over Xmas, we did deserve some advantage for our new found purpose and fight. I was already planning how to come on here and give genuine credit to Lee Johnson for fighting out of a corner with an unusual team. But then all the same frailties of the last three months turned up at once in the final twenty minutes. 

Players sitting deeper and deeper, team getting narrower and narrower, distance between Tammy and the rest of the team getting larger and larger. Midfield turning back in on itself and no longer passing brightly, rather allowing Reading to play and hoping to curtail attacks in the final third - which to be fair Flint was doing.. until Reading realised we were giving them space to take the early shot, so took it.

I actually make LJ right with his comments after the game and that’s the first time I could say that in weeks. The team did put a shift in for 70 minutes and did then retreat, sitting deeper and deeper, no longer pressing and inviting the inevitable. Although what LJ doesn’t say is his substitutions appeared to hasten this demise. Wilbraham did not really affect the game and perhaps knows his days are numbered.

By going two up top for the final period we should have expected to take the game to Reading with a clear lead and occupy them rather than allow them to build pressure. For all the shrieking and howling, LJ was right. But the outcome was almost the polar opposite. Bryan switched to the left, the closest thing we’ve had to wingers (Freeman/O’Dowda) exited, and the team’s engine stalled.

LJ is in a world of bother but this game was NOT an example of it. This game actually makes a decent case that it’s the players that are ill equipped to play the game he wanted, and at the first adjustment to shape, lose all semblance of formation and purpose. That should really be on the players, although LJ’s inability to stop this lack of attacking shape is still a perennial problem of his own making.

This was a game only City could contrive to lose, such is the hole we have built ourselves and fragility of confidence. But we'll continue to lose until we build sustainable attacking football, committing players as a team, not the lightweight, individual-dependent shape we play with. We got lucky on the penalty and still didn’t create a lot of clear cut chances - as you won’t with one up top - and it eventually told.

A lot of people said it was the worst football at Ashton Gate in years. I was strangely more calm about it - it was better than the last two away games. The real problems are off the pitch. Buying a player like Moore, rarely playing him, slating him for a mistake and banishing him, along with several others alleged to have turned on the manager, speaks to bigger problems and inability to manage a squad.

The Engvall sarcasm is a bit of a cliche now, but not being able to bring him on as a change of pace to occupy Reading in that final 20, rather than an increasingly faded Wilbraham, said a lot about not just his credibility but Johnson’s options and the choices he is making. Tactically we are conservative and continue to underwhelm but the bigger issues are whether LJ can assemble a serious squad. 

O’Dowda was largely anonymous compared to the battling - but limited - Freeman, and the 13 that played, had the feeling of scraping the barrel in terms of quality and choice, which should not be the case after all the money LJ has spent. It makes me sceptical about this transfer window but it will be decisive - if he can’t bring in Championship ready quality OR his “tactics” don’t blossom, he’s finished. 

• Fielding 5 - As usual a few decent shots stopped but won’t be pleased
• Little 7 - Fought for everything and affected the game going forward and back in a way no full back has done this season yet
• Goldbourne 6 - Reasonably solid and purposeful but drifted out of the game later on when the shape changed and Bryan switched
• Matthews 6 - Not a centre back but what were you expecting - based on the meltdown when the team was named, did okay
• Flint 8 - It was like some of the unnecessary criticism had stung him, battled for and threw himself at everything and was a leader
• Smith 6 - A bit better taking responsibility as the sole defensive midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 and got stuck in, but drifted out of it late
• Brownhill 7 - Has limitations in terms of decision making and size, but displays the right attributes in terms of willingness to work
• Bryan 6 - Much improved given the responsibility of continual contribution in a central midfield role, more willing to attack and looks good when he does, sadly reverted to type when moved to left after the substitutions
• Freeman 6 - I like the guy as he just keeps trying, probably at his own ceiling in terms of ability and does not have the ability to do what I think LJ needs from him (beating players for pace, creating space for himself) but the poor guy is nothing if not willing
• O’Dowda 5 - Not the threat that we saw glimpses of early in the season. Lightweight and not enough of an individual threat that the game demanded. Another example of the failure by LJ to sign Championship ready players
• Abraham 6 - Continues to try hard in a shape that does not provide him any support or serious quality of chances, 4 goals in 3 poor games shows what a finisher he is if we can actually give him the requisite attacking support
• Subs - Reid 5 a few sensible touches playing out of defence but wasn’t a threat from the right; Wilbraham 4 never got into the game

[1960maaan]

4 hours ago, Olé said:

O’Dowda was largely anonymous compared to the battling - but limited - Freeman, and the 13 that played, had the feeling of scraping the barrel in terms of quality and choice, which should not be the case after all the money LJ has spent. It makes me sceptical about this transfer window but it will be decisive - if he can’t bring in Championship ready quality OR his “tactics” don’t blossom, he’s finished. 

• Fielding 5 - As usual a few decent shots stopped but won’t be pleased
• Little 7 - Fought for everything and affected the game going forward and back in a way no full back has done this season yet
• Goldbourne 6 - Reasonably solid and purposeful but drifted out of the game later on when the shape changed and Bryan switched
• Matthews 6 - Not a centre back but what were you expecting - based on the meltdown when the team was named, did okay
• Flint 8 - It was like some of the unnecessary criticism had stung him, battled for and threw himself at everything and was a leader
• Smith 6 - A bit better taking responsibility as the sole defensive midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 and got stuck in, but drifted out of it late
• Brownhill 7 - Has limitations in terms of decision making and size, but displays the right attributes in terms of willingness to work
• Bryan 6 - Much improved given the responsibility of continual contribution in a central midfield role, more willing to attack and looks good when he does, sadly reverted to type when moved to left after the substitutions
• Freeman 6 - I like the guy as he just keeps trying, probably at his own ceiling in terms of ability and does not have the ability to do what I think LJ needs from him (beating players for pace, creating space for himself) but the poor guy is nothing if not willing
• O’Dowda 5 - Not the threat that we saw glimpses of early in the season. Lightweight and not enough of an individual threat that the game demanded. Another example of the failure by LJ to sign Championship ready players
• Abraham 6 - Continues to try hard in a shape that does not provide him any support or serious quality of chances, 4 goals in 3 poor games shows what a finisher he is if we can actually give him the requisite attacking support
• Subs - Reid 5 a few sensible touches playing out of defence but wasn’t a threat from the right; Wilbraham 4 never got into the game

I agree with a lot of what you say, just a couple of points. 

Odowda seemed under instruction to watch the Reading wide men, really worked hard keeping an eye on their overlap. I guess LJ was worried about covering Little.

I thought Smith was poor again, almost gave another goal away and gets caught in possession regularly. Part of his game in L1 and even up to his injury, was being able to hold the ball and turn away from a challenge. Now he seems to have been found out, seems to panic and it leads to a poor pass or being tackled.

I don't get the Freeman supporters, I don't see he contributes much of anything.  Now I defend that by saying I try and bite my tongue and not critisise too much as I realise it's easy to get a blind spot with players( in my mates eyes Bryan never does anything any good), he did look a little better on the left, but I wouldn't have him in the team. There is something there, but does not contribute enough for me.

I keep coming back to LJ and his team choices, did Moore upset him? Where was Pack ? Unfit RB at CB ? That's before the bizarre subs. 

Massive lack of confidence that is obvious, how we get out of that ???????

[adamski]

Basicly we got lucky twice, if Reading had not handed us the first and the ref the second there was no way that line up was going to score. But this is not about one match it's about how that little *w*t has drained the confidence and spark from the team over the past months by immature and crass strategy, coach or manager he's incapable of anything other than a couple of empty sound bites and cliches. If he worked for Hargreaves Landsdown he'd have been on his bike with no reference weeks ago!

[Olé]

7 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Odowda seemed under instruction to watch the Reading wide men, really worked hard keeping an eye on their overlap. I guess LJ was worried about covering Little.

Fair point, I was a little harsh on O'Dowda, but I'm so frustrated with how LJ sets the team up - with 1 up front and the rest of the team barely crossing the half way line, you need someone in the midfield (presumably the wingers) to play with a pace and directness to take on opponents and get behind the defence.

I remember O'Dowda making a number of such runs on the opening day of the season and almost needing to be kicked up in the air by Wigan to stop him, so he has it in his locker. Clearly confidence is now low, but I just don't see the point of playing O'Dowda in a team with 1 up front, and asking him to tuck in.

Freeman is odd because what you say is probably true, but this season he is the only player who gets the ball and looks to do something resembling getting over the halfway line and actually going at a full back. It doesn't often come off and he normally turns back, but the intent is there and I credit him for that.

By the way, your point about O'Dowda's work on the opposition raises another important point: we're not a team that is only loses by one goal because 'we're better than our form', we're a team that deliberately sits all its players in behind the opposition to reduce their chances, with little or no attacking strategy.

[RobintheRed Red]

11 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Brownhill and Bryan did well. but why and how has Lee Johnson spent eleven million to put ten men behind the ball and play counter attack at home????

Hes a deadman walking

[Fiale]

27 minutes ago, Olé said:

Fair point, I was a little harsh on O'Dowda, but I'm so frustrated with how LJ sets the team up - with 1 up front and the rest of the team barely crossing the half way line, you need someone in the midfield (presumably the wingers) to play with a pace and directness to take on opponents and get behind the defence.

I remember O'Dowda making a number of such runs on the opening day of the season and almost needing to be kicked up in the air by Wigan to stop him, so he has it in his locker. Clearly confidence is now low, but I just don't see the point of playing O'Dowda in a team with 1 up front, and asking him to tuck in.

Freeman is odd because what you say is probably true, but this season he is the only player who gets the ball and looks to do something resembling getting over the halfway line and actually going at a full back. It doesn't often come off and he normally turns back, but the intent is there and I credit him for that.

By the way, your point about O'Dowda's work on the opposition raises another important point: we're not a team that is only loses by one goal because 'we're better than our form', we're a team that deliberately sits all its players in behind the opposition to reduce their chances, with little or no attacking strategy.

 

The only conclusion is that it's what the players are instructed to do. Do not push forward breaking the shape, make sure there is someone moving to cover your position, don't lose the ball - is there a better option on ?  by the time you have checked all that of your list to attack the moment has gone.. we did attack more early in the season before the players had been coached in our teams way to play... seeing as our attacking play has become less and less over time, then it has to be what they are being coached.

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, Olé said:

Fair point, I was a little harsh on O'Dowda, but I'm so frustrated with how LJ sets the team up - with 1 up front and the rest of the team barely crossing the half way line, you need someone in the midfield (presumably the wingers) to play with a pace and directness to take on opponents and get behind the defence.

I remember O'Dowda making a number of such runs on the opening day of the season and almost needing to be kicked up in the air by Wigan to stop him, so he has it in his locker. Clearly confidence is now low, but I just don't see the point of playing O'Dowda in a team with 1 up front, and asking him to tuck in.

Freeman is odd because what you say is probably true, but this season he is the only player who gets the ball and looks to do something resembling getting over the halfway line and actually going at a full back. It doesn't often come off and he normally turns back, but the intent is there and I credit him for that.

By the way, your point about O'Dowda's work on the opposition raises another important point: we're not a team that is only loses by one goal because 'we're better than our form', we're a team that deliberately sits all its players in behind the opposition to reduce their chances, with little or no attacking strategy.

This is a very good and important point. For all those (and I include myself in this) who have said we're close as we're only losing by the odd goal. There is a reason, we are not hard to beat but we are hard to score lots against. This is the polar opposite to life under Cott's and his gung ho style, sadly the end result is exactly the same ....... no points !

[BigAl&Toby]

16 hours ago, Fiale said:

When I heard the team news, well it just screamed "Cannot afford to Lose"  4 across the back, 3 central (defensive) midfielders (one of who LJ thinks is on course to be a PremierLeague LB) Matthews as CB, 2 actual wingers in O'Dowda and Freeman. Where were the goals going to come from in that team ? Lee could not afford to lose so set up shop early on, pressing, letting them have no space. Reading had almost all the possession throughout the match, but we got a lucky break, a timid shot from Bryan that the keeper sends rebounding into the path of Tammy. ! nil up... and now the team/tactics look like they make sense, we just need to defend.... for a hell of a long time, but Reading for all their nice passing and movement created nothing and we go into half time thinking... brave selection Lee, but you may have just done it.

 

2nd half, and O'Dowda wins a pretty soft penalty, but hey about time right. Taammy scores, and Reading still produce nothing. O'Dowda gets injured and now things start to go wrong, within a short time we go from Reading not being able to break down our team that's packing midfield, to subbing a injured O'Dowda and Freeman. We now have no wingers, and are playing a 4-4-2 and Reading are now bossing the midfield and creating chances...  1...... 2...... 3  it was all so inevitable, for 30 minutes the whole team pretty much just sat in our half, no pressing, no challenges, the few times we won the ball we lopped it long to Wilbs hoping he could hold it up. Why we did not stick to the dour but working tactic 4-1-4-1 that just smothered Reading I have no idea, yes it was not pretty, but it was effective. Suddenly our defence are under constant attack, and as we all know they cannot cope as proven all season, we took away their safety screen, and left them to do what they have done all season... concede soft goals.

 

So brave tactics LJ - it almost worked, sadly you beat yourself in the end with the changes. 

I'll nail my colours to the mast. I was delighted when SC was given the boot. He'd taken us as far as he could.

We were at Charlton when LJ sat next to SL. LJ kept us up and we started to play well and with belief.

We started this season well - too well - and some started to dream. Since Cardiff we've become unstuck. That can't continue. For 70 odd minutes on Saturday it looked like we were finding some form.

Brownhill was superb. Freeman looked strong. Little played the best I've seen for some time.

Then an injury and a couple of substitutions that allowed Reading back in the game. They started to control midfield, we sat deep and sadly weren't (and with the current team, never will be) strong enough to defend or absorb that sort of pressure.

The subs that came on needed to be as like for like as possible. Sadly they weren't and we paid the price.

[Marlborough Red]

Like all around me I was baffled by the Team selection yesterday.  LJ stuck with starting with 1 up front at home again  and left our most creative player on the bench. Our England international young CB Moore on loan at Radio Bristol and Matthews picked out of position at  CB. Seems to me LJ picked a side to defend and hold out for a 0-0 draw. This was a home match for Christ's sake , the total lack of ambition is telling the side they are not good enough to go out and win  Why does LJ insist on picking a different Team according to the opposition rather than playing his best side  aiming to attack the opposition and score goals, particularly at home. The bumper crowd deserved more , why not give it a go, attack the opposition  and try to win the game

Reading -not Barcelona, given 72 % possession and we wonder why we lose the game.Not surprisingly Tammy again isolated up front and few, if any, good chances created . Got lucky with a goalkeeping error and dodgy penalty (at last ) to go 2 up. Crowd right behind the Team and it looked like we might hold to get the win we all crave until more baffling substitutions handed even more possession to the opposition. Winger off injured , winger on the bench not brought on. A time surely for Tomlin to come on , hold up the play and provide some respite for our beleaguered defence. Another winger off , Wilbs comes on but is singularly ineffective . Why have a youthful Envail on the bench if he is not going to play . Must wonder why he was bought if a 37 year old is constantly picked ahead of him in every match .We seemed to have everybody inc Tammy behind the ball with no outlet when we did eventually get hold of the ball-long punts to nobody handing possession straight back to Reading.

No attacking threat whatsoever in the 2nd half , looked like a training exercise for the last 20 minutes- Forwards v Defence -only one outcome possible in that scenario -the defence never wins!

LJ will probably tell us that Fleetwood are a good and talented side ,playing well and a real threat. On that basis expect another team selected to thwart the opposition - as opposed to an all out attacking formation designed to create chances,score plenty of goals, and get through to the 4th round. We shall see !

 

[Major Isewater]

19 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

What pees me off is that Reading get a manager who can play a good game, whereas we get one who can talk one. 

And frankly most on here thought that Reading were taking a big gamble with Stam .

If We had employed him it would have gone chest up .

What is it about our club ?