John Pemberton the best option?

[bcfcnick]

In my view he should be  given the job until the end of the season.

He passed a trial run as caretaker manager with flying colours.  He set up the team solidly and embraced all the roles in the job enthusiastically and very competently.  Just as he couldn't be  blamed for the reluctance to drop a failing 3-5-2 set-up under Cotts he can't be blamed for the current tinkering of formations and players under LJ.

The only question mark in my mind is that Cotts left a tight knit group of players that just needed switching from the stubborn 3-5-2 formation. It was a much easier group to takeover and manage.  Arguably the smaller squad was possibly stronger with Ayling & Baker in defence and Kodjia and a younger Wilbraham as strikers.  Last season it would have been easier to manage and keep players happy with game time and avoid the constant tinkering of formation and personnel we have seen under LJ. 

I still believe that Pemberton would get the best out of the current group and keep things simple, settled and solid.  I would also like to see Wade Elliot brought back in a supporting role and Dean Holden released as well to recreate the successful set-up that existed last time Pembo took the role.

All the out of work managers are without a job for a reason so it's a big risk even to go for an established name.  Pembo succeeded last time, knows the set-up and wouldn't need a settling in period.

I know some think LJ's extended contract would be an issue for SL but I'd imagine there would be a break clause and also if the club can splash out £3m plus for young players of the future who may not work out then SL should have no qualms on paying off a young manager who hasn't worked out at a much lesser amount than that wasted by Lee.  It's more likely his close personal relationship with Lee rather than a financial amount might delay what I think will be the inevitable parting. I really hoped LJ would succeed given his obvious passion and allegiance to the Club but it hasn't worked and SL has to act in the best interests of the Club.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

I like Pembo.... and yes I'd give him a contract til the end of the season, and may be tempted to extend it beyond that (if Pembo wants the job)

[Thatwasclose]

I don't think he will do any worse

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

7 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

In my view he should be  given the job until the end of the season.

He passed a trial run as caretaker manager with flying colours.  He set up the team solidly and embraced all the roles in the job enthusiastically and very competently.  Just as he couldn't be  blamed for the reluctance to drop a failing 3-5-2 set-up under Cotts he can't be blamed for the current tinkering of formations and players under LJ.

The only question mark in my mind is that Cotts left a tight knit group of players that just needed switching from the stubborn 3-5-2 formation. It was a much easier group to takeover and manage.  Arguably the smaller squad was possibly stronger with Ayling & Baker in defence and Kodjia and a younger Wilbraham as strikers.  Last season it would have been easier to manage and keep players happy with game time and avoid the constant tinkering of formation and personnel we have seen under LJ. 

I still believe that Pemberton would get the best out of the current group and keep things simple, settled and solid.  I would also like to see Wade Elliot brought back in a supporting role and Dean Holden released as well to recreate the successful set-up that existed last time Pembo took the role.

All the out of work managers are without a job for a reason so it's a big risk even to go for an established name.  Pembo succeeded last time, knows the set-up and wouldn't need a settling in period.

I know some think LJ's extended contract would be an issue for SL but I'd imagine there would be a break clause and also if the club can splash out £3m plus for young players of the future who may not work out then SL should have no qualms on paying off a young manager who hasn't worked out at a much lesser amount than that wasted by Lee.  It's more likely his close personal relationship with Lee rather than a financial amount might delay what I think will be the inevitable parting. I really hoped LJ would succeed given his obvious passion and allegiance to the Club but it hasn't worked and SL has to act in the best interests of the Club.

Yes.

[Spoons]

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

He didn't do too badly as number 1 last time

[Davefevs]

Just now, Spoons said:

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

Not if anything he suggests is over-ridden all of the time.

Players are fickle, a new manager can completely change their outlook.

[bcfcnick]

 

4 minutes ago, Spoons said:

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

He was a key part of the Cotts coaching team and turned things around.   The long losing streak has coincided with LJ bringing in Dean Holden so it may well be that JP's influence has diminished.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, bcfcnick said:

 

He was a key part of the Cotts coaching team and turned things around.   The long losing streak has coincided with LJ bringing in Dean Holden so it may well be that JP's influence has diminished.

That might be true, rather than Holden's coaching itself being the reason.

[Spoons]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not if anything he suggests is over-ridden all of the time.

Players are fickle, a new manager can completely change their outlook.

I have time for your posts but don't pretend to know that what pembo suggests is over-ridden all the time?

[Spoons]

2 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

 

He was a key part of the Cotts coaching team and turned things around.   The long losing streak has coincided with LJ bringing in Dean Holden so it may well be that JP's influence has diminished.

So pembo gets all the credit and LJ and DH get the flak? 

Intresring

[Thatwasclose]

5 minutes ago, Spoons said:

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

I get your point but as no2 you can only do so much and your role is more executing no1s plans 

Id be happy with pembo because to me he has been through a number of regimes, already familiar with the players and club without the razzmatazz 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I have time for your posts but don't pretend to know that what pembo suggests is over-ridden all the time?

Nor me. 

I was just putting out a possibility, based on Cotts-regime, where as soon as he was sacked Pembo went 442.  That led me to think that Pembo must've have suggested a change to 442, but Cotts dismissed it.

when things ain't going well 2+2=5

[shelts]

Interesting he's been part of success and failure. Two managers now. Lots slagging of Dean Holden. Interesting Pembo seems bullet proof.   

[Inactive user]

27 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

In my view he should be  given the job until the end of the season.

He passed a trial run as caretaker manager with flying colours.  He set up the team solidly and embraced all the roles in the job enthusiastically and very competently.  Just as he couldn't be  blamed for the reluctance to drop a failing 3-5-2 set-up under Cotts he can't be blamed for the current tinkering of formations and players under LJ.

The only question mark in my mind is that Cotts left a tight knit group of players that just needed switching from the stubborn 3-5-2 formation. It was a much easier group to takeover and manage.  Arguably the smaller squad was possibly stronger with Ayling & Baker in defence and Kodjia and a younger Wilbraham as strikers.  Last season it would have been easier to manage and keep players happy with game time and avoid the constant tinkering of formation and personnel we have seen under LJ. 

I still believe that Pemberton would get the best out of the current group and keep things simple, settled and solid.  I would also like to see Wade Elliot brought back in a supporting role and Dean Holden released as well to recreate the successful set-up that existed last time Pembo took the role.

All the out of work managers are without a job for a reason so it's a big risk even to go for an established name.  Pembo succeeded last time, knows the set-up and wouldn't need a settling in period.

I know some think LJ's extended contract would be an issue for SL but I'd imagine there would be a break clause and also if the club can splash out £3m plus for young players of the future who may not work out then SL should have no qualms on paying off a young manager who hasn't worked out at a much lesser amount than that wasted by Lee.  It's more likely his close personal relationship with Lee rather than a financial amount might delay what I think will be the inevitable parting. I really hoped LJ would succeed given his obvious passion and allegiance to the Club but it hasn't worked and SL has to act in the best interests of the Club.

What job?  There's no vacancy.

[Davefevs]

I haven't slagged off Holden (not saying you're accusing me either), in fact I've defended him against the conspiracy theorists.  He's been brought in to help the forwards yet we are conceding more goals....yet he's the reason.

Good to both out on the pitch doing the warm-up again today.

[Phileas Fogg]

The scapegoating of Holden is nonsense. No one on here knows how good or bad his coaching is so it's pointless to tar him as responsible for the team's run.

No one seems to be mentioning that since he's arrived, despite being a defender, Tammy has started scoring again. 

Pemberton seems a great guy but it's a bit strange how he seems immune to any criticism at all. Not sure what I'd think of him as manager if LJ went, the dead cat bounce of Cotterill leaving can't be underestimated. If LJ goes, would rather see a new manager/head coach than one from our current coaching team who've been involved in our poor form.

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The scapegoating of Holden is nonsense. No one on here knows how good or bad his coaching is so it's pointless to tar him as responsible for the team's run.

No one seems to be mentioning that since he's arrived, despite being a defender, Tammy has started scoring again. 

Pemberton seems a great guy but it's a bit strange how he seems immune to any criticism at all. Not sure what I'd think of him as manager if LJ went, the dead cat bounce of Cotterill leaving can't be underestimated. If LJ goes, would rather see a new manager/head coach than one from our current coaching team who've been involved in our poor form.

Took the words right out of my mouth 

[BobBobSuperBob]

31 minutes ago, Spoons said:

If LJ isn't the right man , then pembo isn't either! 

Hes been a key part of the coaching team and has to share some of the flak. 

Not if , as you'd expect he's working to Lees instructions / philosophy 

As with SC JP won't agree with everything Lee does and we don't know how much

[BobBobSuperBob]

15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The scapegoating of Holden is nonsense. No one on here knows how good or bad his coaching is so it's pointless to tar him as responsible for the team's run.

No one seems to be mentioning that since he's arrived, despite being a defender, Tammy has started scoring again. 

Pemberton seems a great guy but it's a bit strange how he seems immune to any criticism at all. Not sure what I'd think of him as manager if LJ went, the dead cat bounce of Cotterill leaving can't be underestimated. If LJ goes, would rather see a new manager/head coach than one from our current coaching team who've been involved in our poor form.

Think that may be a good valid point PF

If I was SL and pulled the trigger ,it may sound daft but it would depend on JPs popularity /respect amongst squad

If JP is respected / liked I'd give it to him on temp basis - your 'dead cat bounce' 

I think that bounce , with the squad we have would be enough to drag us thro the relegation fight we are very much in

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think that may be a good valid point PF

If I was SL and pulled the trigger ,it may sound daft but it would depend on JPs popularity /respect amongst squad

If JP is respected / liked I'd give it to him on temp basis - your 'dead cat bounce' 

I think that bounce , with the squad we have would be enough to drag us thro the relegation fight we are very much in

Agree.

I think he'd be a steady hand and I'd be interested to see what he'd do with our squad in the short term. Maybe we'd see a reinvigorated Tomlin and Gary O'Neill miraculously heals as if Pemberton changed the lucozade to holy water.. 

For me though, the dead cat bounce effect won't last forever and we might need some fresh ideas and eyes from the management side of things if LJ were to go.

I wouldn't be be surprised if our next manager is foreign. Can't see many jump out realistic suggestions from those currently in/out of work.

[Spoons]

10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not if , as you'd expect he's working to Lees instructions / philosophy 

As with SC JP won't agree with everything Lee does and we don't know how much

I very much doubt that pembo is a yes man. I'm finding it strange he's getting away with this Scott free when LJ and DH take majority of the stick.

[REDOXO]

35 minutes ago, shelts said:

Interesting he's been part of success and failure. Two managers now. Lots slagging of Dean Holden. Interesting Pembo seems bullet proof.   

Pembo is bullet proof after the SC debacle. Rightly or Wrongly, however the answer to the title question is Yes!

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Pembo is bullet proof after the SC debacle. Rightly or Wrongly, however the answer to the title question is Yes!

In the yes camp,  no problems sir. 

Dean Holden has managerial experience I would give it to him!!?

#tinhatsonwhoosh

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I very much doubt that pembo is a yes man. I'm finding it strange he's getting away with this Scott free when LJ and DH take majority of the stick.

Might not be a yes man but LJ has final say in everything -we don't know what happens 

If he was in disagreement with LJ what's he meant to do - go on Radio Bristol and say so ?

He may he %100behind everything LJ - he may think he's getting lots wrong - we don't know 

[REDOXO]

Just now, shelts said:

In the yes camp,  no problems sir. 

Dean Holden has managerial experience I would give it to him!!?

#tinhatsonwhoosh

Made my evening! :laugh:

[Ray White]

He was the best option at the time we appointed Johnson. I say this because we went for the cheap option in Johnson but still had to pay compensation. We should've just gone for the cheaper option then who had stopped the rot immediately by changing formation. Unfortunately that ship has sailed and now we need a proven manager.

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The scapegoating of Holden is nonsense. No one on here knows how good or bad his coaching is so it's pointless to tar him as responsible for the team's run.

No one seems to be mentioning that since he's arrived, despite being a defender, Tammy has started scoring again. 

Pemberton seems a great guy but it's a bit strange how he seems immune to any criticism at all. Not sure what I'd think of him as manager if LJ went, the dead cat bounce of Cotterill leaving can't be underestimated. If LJ goes, would rather see a new manager/head coach than one from our current coaching team who've been involved in our poor form.

Agree.

Think he is the logical caretaker but the new man should then decide if he stays beyond that.

[Red Exile]

What's needed is someone with experience of delivering success at Championship level. Pembo might be the loveliest man in the world for all I know, but he's no proven track record.

That said do I think SL will appoint a seasoned managerial pro?...I very much doubt it.

I've not been a fan of Warnock's sides down the years, and I think he discredits himself with his confrontational approach...but yesterday I sat behind the dugout for the first time since the new stand was opened...Warnock and his gnarled back room staff against LJ was men against boys I'm afraid. Warnock was part of a grizzled team cajoling and testing and making the very most of a pretty limited hand...transformed the game with his substitutions, kept his players believing to the end. All credit to him. That's what we need, someone with the experience to know how to transform things...much as it pains me to say it, my head says that we could do a lot worse that Neil Warnock...but my heart says lets appoint someone with more flair...and for that we may need to look overseas...

[Dr Balls]

32 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

What's needed is someone with experience of delivering success at Championship level. Pembo might be the loveliest man in the world for all I know, but he's no proven track record.

That said do I think SL will appoint a seasoned managerial pro?...I very much doubt it.

I've not been a fan of Warnock's sides down the years, and I think he discredits himself with his confrontational approach...but yesterday I sat behind the dugout for the first time since the new stand was opened...Warnock and his gnarled back room staff against LJ was men against boys I'm afraid. Warnock was part of a grizzled team cajoling and testing and making the very most of a pretty limited hand...transformed the game with his substitutions, kept his players believing to the end. All credit to him. That's what we need, someone with the experience to know how to transform things...much as it pains me to say it, we could do a lot worse that Neil Warnock.

Agree that we need an experienced manager but we aren't going to get Warnock. Or Holloway or any of the other gnarled old managers we love to bait, because they are already in jobs in this league, which they aren't going to leave right now.

However your assessment of men vs boys on the sideline is very apposite. Just like Reading's substitutions changed the game, so did Cardiff's. And if LJ has way of playing to always set up based on the opposition style of play, what really damns him is that he doesn't appear to respond to changes in the game with appropriate substitutions.

Going from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 by bringing on Wilbraham with 10-15 minutes to go, when we needed to stop Reading from scoring again, and Brownhill & Bryan were knackered from all their running and closing down, but then faced by fresh legs in midfield for Reading, was not just daft it was stupid. I know he might be our club captain and was brought on for experience but it completely destroyed our shape & set-up.

Yesterday Warnock brings on Junior Hoylett with 20 mins to go. Now he is a class wide player and always going to cause a right back problems but against a 3-5-2 with Little as wing back & Hegeler as right centre back it should have been clear that we needed to respond to manage him. So what did LJ do? Brought on Wilbraham for Djuric! Wrong call again.

LJ needs to go. Pemberton as a caretaker while we get in someone  experienced and relatively successful at this level seems fine. 

Unfortunately I think SL's general preference is for a"Yes man" (remember Cotterill was Dawe's contact & suggestion) so I do worry about Ashton suggesting someone from Europe who could be even more out of their depth than LJ in this situation.