Hegeler

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

Surely Jens should be in centre mid where his class can influence and dictate the game.

For 150k upfront & 150k as the balance he looks possibly as one of our best signings ever for the amount of money we paid for him and the fact he looks a very decent player.

One of LJ's problems is the amount of players he plays out of position so why not get the best out of Jens & for the Team.

[WRERE]

Seeing as Magnusson has only just came back from an injury he's sort of forced to play him there. Once he's fit then Hegeler will be put into midfield.

[tts_city]

1 minute ago, WRERE said:

Seeing as Magnusson has only just came back from an injury he's sort of forced to play him there. Once he's fit then Hegeler will be put into midfield.

He hasnt been forced to put him there. he could have kept a 442 or 4131 or any of the other formations we have played with a back four this season (all of them i think ?) but no we have to go with a new formation of three at the back (which we dont have the wingbacks of decent quality for) just to confuse the players even more.

[Dr Balls]

Make Hegeler the captain on the pitch before he gets infected by the fear factor affecting too many of the other players and play him in midfield with GO'N. 

Not difficult!

[WRERE]

7 minutes ago, tts_city said:

He hasnt been forced to put him there. he could have kept a 442 or 4131 or any of the other formations we have played with a back four this season (all of them i think ?) but no we have to go with a new formation of three at the back (which we dont have the wingbacks of decent quality for) just to confuse the players even more.

We also don't have the quality wingers to play 4-4-2. We played 3 at the back vs Fleetwood and it's a system that the majority of the players have played with too , so it's not as if it's alien to them. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

17 minutes ago, WRERE said:

Seeing as Magnusson has only just came back from an injury he's sort of forced to play him there. Once he's fit then Hegeler will be put into midfield.

That is utter nonsense, the match after LJ signed a centre back and a much needed midfield upgrade our tactical genius decides to play with 3 centre backs and one of them is our much needed midfield upgrade and has it changed anything? has it ****, we still have a midfield unfit for purpose.

The idea about Magnusson being unfit is a smokescreen Wright could have played in a back 4 and Hegeler in midfield where we need him.

We were warned about LJ playing players out of position by Barnsley fans but arrogantly chose to ignore it and now we have seen it in action in it's most laughable and inexplainable form.

[Dr Balls]

6 minutes ago, WRERE said:

We also don't have the quality wingers to play 4-4-2. We played 3 at the back vs Fleetwood and it's a system that the majority of the players have played with too , so it's not as if it's alien to them. 

It is if you keep chopping and changing, and not playing players in their best positions.

Hegeler is clearly and naturally a midfielder. You only had to watch him run forward yesterday to see that. But no we plonk him in defence. Same thing happens to Joe Bryan and it's been no help to him at all.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, WRERE said:

We also don't have the quality wingers to play 4-4-2. We played 3 at the back vs Fleetwood and it's a system that the majority of the players have played with too , so it's not as if it's alien to them. 

We haven't played that system for over a year, so why start now? especially when most people have identified midfield as our major weakness.

And are you saying that LJ has taken this long into the season to workout he hasn't got quality wingers?, god help us.

 

[Abraham Romanovich]

10 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

We were warned about LJ playing players out of position by Barnsley fans but arrogantly chose to ignore it and now we have seen it in action in it's most laughable and inexplainable form.

All this talk about LJ playing players out of position is rubbish.
He played Frank Fielding in goal.

[simon uk]

2 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

All this talk about GJ playing players out of position is rubbish.
He played Frank Fielding in goal.

 

Hegeler would probably have done better.

[Top Robin]

2 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

All this talk about GJ playing players out of position is rubbish.
He played Frank Fielding in goal.

 

Not sure he's a keeper

[cidercity1987]

Hegeler looks great but sadly like ONeill Im sure he will sink to the level of those around him

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Hegeler looks great but sadly like ONeill Im sure he will sink to the level of those around him

Sadly probably true, the way it's going, especially if he keeps playing him at the back.

[WRERE]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

That is utter nonsense, the match after LJ signed a centre back and a much needed midfield upgrade our tactical genius decides to play with 3 centre backs and one of them is our much needed midfield upgrade and has it changed anything? has it ****, we still have a midfield unfit for purpose.

The idea about Magnusson being unfit is a smokescreen Wright could have played in a back 4 and Hegeler in midfield where we need him.

We were warned about LJ playing players out of position by Barnsley fans but arrogantly chose to ignore it and now we have seen it in action in it's most laughable and inexplainable form.

 

8 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

It is if you keep chopping and changing, and not playing players in their best positions.

Hegeler is clearly and naturally a midfielder. You only had to watch him run forward yesterday to see that. But no we plonk him in defence. Same thing happens to Joe Bryan and it's been no help to him at all.

The systems we've been using haven't been working , so what's wrong with changing it and trying something else? There have been people on here saying we should go to a 3-5-2 and now we've tried it and not got a result we should stop using it? Hegeler's played his last 2 games at Hertha as a centre half , so it's not out of position is it? It's a position he's played a lot in his career. And what do you mean about Bryan? Again , there were posters on here raving about how well he played in centre midfield the other week and last season. 

 

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

We haven't played that system for over a year, so why start now? especially when most people have identified midfield as our major weakness.

And are you saying that LJ has taken this long into the season to workout he hasn't got quality wingers?, god help us.

 

We've changed to a 3-5-2 in games a few times and I imagine that players are trained when they train the shape during the week for the upcoming games. Maybe we should've bought some wingers when the window was shut or something. Or LJ should've looked into his crystal ball after our great start to see that Patterson was just in form and isn't actually great. And that guy Freeman who everyone said is shit and doesn't cut it apparently now shouldn't be sold. 

[Dr Balls]

9 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Hegeler looks great but sadly like ONeill Im sure he will sink to the level of those around him

That well known effect called "The curse of Ashton Gate" where we buy a good player and manage to ruin him until the point where he is s*it and his career is destroyed. It has happened so many times you do start to wonder...

[boss hogg]

49 minutes ago, Derek from Nailsea said:

Surely Jens should be in centre mid where his class can influence and dictate the game.

For 150k upfront & 150k as the balance he looks possibly as one of our best signings ever for the amount of money we paid for him and the fact he looks a very decent player.

One of LJ's problems is the amount of players he plays out of position so why not get the best out of Jens & for the Team.

need to enjoy watching jens, he wont be here long.

[Dr Balls]

7 minutes ago, boss hogg said:

need to enjoy watching jens, he wont be here long.

Not if we are in League 1! The fire sale of damaged goods sold at s loss will be even bigger than the last time we went down...

[boss hogg]

Just now, Dr Balls said:

Not if we are in League 1! The fire sale of damaged goods sold at s loss will be even bigger than the last time we went down...

exactly .

[Fiale]

39 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Make Hegeler the captain on the pitch before he gets infected by the fear factor affecting too many of the other players and play him in midfield with GO'N. 

Not difficult!

 

Captain at our club seems meaningless, Pack, Korey, O'Neil - it just seem to be given to CM regardless..

[samo II]

All this talk about not having the players for 442 - of course we have.

They might not be our best players, but maybe we're focusing too much on trying to fit in our 'best' players instead of playing our best team?  And let's be honest; LJ has no compunction playing players out of position anyway...

Below is a list of players who could play each 442 position without being miles out of their comfort zone;

Centre backs - two from Flint, Mags, Wright, Vyner, Hegeler 

Right back; Little, Vyner, Brownhill (LJ has played him there; not ideal but there it is)

Left back; Bryan (though I think he lacks the defensive sense to do this at Championship-level; see Cardiff's second goal yesterday), Golbourne, Kelly (don't put a man on the bench if your not willing to play them in my eyes; counting him)

Defensive central mid; Brownhill, GON, Hegeler, Pack

Attacking midfielder; Tomlin, Reid, Brownhill (versatile lad TBF), Patterson (apparently, if his Fleetwood sub showing is to be believed; though prefer him elsewhere)

Right mid; Patterson, Brownhill (again, I know...), O'Dowda (played right side many times for Oxford), Tomlin (far from ideal, but if he can apparently play wide left, this isn't a stretch), Burns (yes; might be back off on loan, but like with Vyner - is out player, and can't understand why his development might trump our need)

Left mid; Bryan (his best position for me; he's not a Championship left back, I don't care what LJ says), O'Dowda, Tomlin (again; hardly ideal, but he's certainly played there)

Forwards - two from; Engvall (the man, the mystery...), Tammy, Wilbs, Djuric, Burns

Maybe we're thin in some positions, and we'd field a side with areas that would be weak for this level, but I refuse to accept you couldn't field a 442, with cover for most roles involved in it on the bench.

Someone said elsewhere 'KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid', and I firmly believe just playing players in some system (doesn't have to be 442) where they know their position and roles and we could improve results.

Don't see it happening though.

 

Edit/Note: didn't even include Freeman (clearly off), any injured players (Matthews, Smith) or players we've sent out on loan who are playing league football currently at various levels (Garita, Di G, Moore) - all increase or would increase our options.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, WRERE said:

We've changed to a 3-5-2 in games a few times and I imagine that players are trained when they train the shape during the week for the upcoming games. Maybe we should've bought some wingers when the window was shut or something. Or LJ should've looked into his crystal ball after our great start to see that Patterson was just in form and isn't actually great. And that guy Freeman who everyone said is shit and doesn't cut it apparently now shouldn't be sold. 

Excuses and more excuses, 2 or 3 more games playing with a back 4 will have made little or no difference to the shit that we find ourselves in, but bolstering an absolutely shitty midfield might have.

He signed Patterson and every week plays players out of their natural positions and virtually every week he tinkers with the team, the buck stops with him and whether we like it or not a manager needs to have hindsight it's part of the job description, we as fans do not need that hindsight.

He has lost the plot is probably out of his depth and that is showing in his post match interviews, he is now doing his impression of any of our last 10 managers in their death throes.

One last thought to ponder, you mentioned our great start and points wise it truly was a great start, but I see now that many people are actually saying, "do you know what?, we didn't actually play that well", maybe the signs were there and we and LJ were carried away with the euphoria, take Fulham away out of the equation and who else have we beaten comfortably?

[Robbored]

I've seen him twice now and both times he's been very impressed. He looks very comfortable on the ball with a touch of class. He's made a couple of powerful runs with the ball already.

He's played in defence and midfield in Germany so I imagine LJ doesn't know yet where to play Hegeler.

As already stated by others I like to see him as a defensive midfielder in the position currently occupied by Pack.

[pillred]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Excuses and more excuses, 2 or 3 more games playing with a back 4 will have made little or no difference to the shit that we find ourselves in, but bolstering an absolutely shitty midfield might have.

He signed Patterson and every week plays players out of their natural positions and virtually every week he tinkers with the team, the buck stops with him and whether we like it or not a manager needs to have hindsight it's part of the job description, we as fans do not need that hindsight.

He has lost the plot is probably out of his depth and that is showing in his post match interviews, he is now doing his impression of any of our last 10 managers in their death throes.

One last thought to ponder, you mentioned our great start and points wise it truly was a great start, but I see now that many people are actually saying, "do you know what?, we didn't actually play that well", maybe the signs were there and we and LJ were carried away with the euphoria, take Fulham away out of the equation and who else have we beaten comfortably?

at last people are realizing that maybe lee is not as good as we had hoped its a shame people say we have had some bad luck only losing by 1 goal etc but come on nobody is that UNLUCKY!!

[Dr Balls]

11 minutes ago, pillred said:

at last people are realizing that maybe lee is not as good as we had hoped its a shame people say we have had some bad luck only losing by 1 goal etc but come on nobody is that UNLUCKY!!

Oh I don't know. I have been buying prize draw tickets for years and never win anything. Yesterday my mate & I both had tickets with the first 4 numbers for the £770 prize. Mine ended in 0, his in 2. And the winning ticket ended in 1!!! Do you think LJ had the winning ticket???

[Jack Dawe]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I've seen him twice now and both times he's been very impressed. 

I'm sure he was, old chap. Who wouldn't be (other than GrahamC)?

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Oh I don't know. I have been buying prize draw tickets for years and never win anything. Yesterday my mate & I both had tickets with the first 4 numbers for the £770 prize. Mine ended in 0, his in 2. And the winning ticket ended in 1!!! Do you think LJ had the winning ticket???

probably not!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

Oh I don't know. I have been buying prize draw tickets for years and never win anything. Yesterday my mate & I both had tickets with the first 4 numbers for the £770 prize. Mine ended in 0, his in 2. And the winning ticket ended in 1!!! Do you think LJ had the winning ticket???

if he did he probably put the ticket in his shirt pocket and put it out for Scot to wash.

Another square ticket in a round hole.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Not if we are in League 1! The fire sale of damaged goods sold at s loss will be even bigger than the last time we went down...

Don't agree with that. With the exception of Engval and possibly O'Dowda - who'd likely stay and could easily have a good year and earn his value back anyway -I think they'd all hold their value.  

[Dr Balls]

10 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Don't agree with that. With the exception of Engval and possibly O'Dowda - who'd likely stay and could easily have a good year and earn his value back anyway -I think they'd all hold their value.  

Really? Not very likely tbh. Damaged goods that we could no longer afford, who want away anyway. If I was an opposition manager I would be looking to strike a hard bargain knowing in that situation the buyer is in top position.

[CotswoldRed]

1 hour ago, WRERE said:

Seeing as Magnusson has only just came back from an injury he's sort of forced to play him there. Once he's fit then Hegeler will be put into midfield.

When you play players out of position on their league debuts you're kind of telling the others who might normally play there that you've utterly lost faith in their ability.