Dastardly and Muttley Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 "Man Utd almost sacked Alex Ferguson." We often hear this during runs when reasonably new managers get under pressure. Before my time, but I believe Alan Dicks was also subjected to similar and came through it. Maybe it's the added distance of living away from Bristol and only seeing the odd game, but I can see how the squad is being built and I hope that the players will turn it around so that by March this run is long forgotten. However, as LJ's appointment divided plenty at the time, can he come back from this groundswell of negativity even if results do turn the corner. What would it take to bring people back from the brink to allow LJ to "do a Ferguson/Dicks" and ride out this storm to become successful. I've deliberately not mentioned GJ's run as I feel that was under different circumstances. LJ's definitely getting more time than most because the club want him to succeed. Hopefully something can happen to change this mood and bring people back on board. This club is great when it's united, as with SC's double winning season. LJ needs to strive to create the same unity between fans and players. Something deep down in me says that he won't be able to win over a significant portion of the fan base whatever he does. Which, to me, is a shame as I believe he could be successful here in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: "Man Utd almost sacked Alex Ferguson." We often hear this during runs when reasonably new managers get under pressure. Before my time, but I believe Alan Dicks was also subjected to similar and came through it. Maybe it's the added distance of living away from Bristol and only seeing the odd game, but I can see how the squad is being built and I hope that the players will turn it around so that by March this run is long forgotten. However, as LJ's appointment divided plenty at the time, can he come back from this groundswell of negativity even if results do turn the corner. What would it take to bring people back from the brink to allow LJ to "do a Ferguson/Dicks" and ride out this storm to become successful. I've deliberately not mentioned GJ's run as I feel that was under different circumstances. LJ's definitely getting more time than most because the club want him to succeed. Hopefully something can happen to change this mood and bring people back on board. This club is great when it's united, as with SC's double winning season. LJ needs to strive to create the same unity between fans and players. Something deep down in me says that he won't be able to win over a significant portion of the fan base whatever he does. Which, to me, is a shame as I believe he could be successful here in the long run. I was watching games in the Alan Dicks era and the bad runs we had then never stretched to seven defeats on the bounce. In one paper today it says it equals the club record of straight losses in the league for us, I don't know if that's true or not but if it is and we lose another LJ will go into the record books for the wrong reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: "Man Utd almost sacked Alex Ferguson." We often hear this during runs when reasonably new managers get under pressure. Before my time, but I believe Alan Dicks was also subjected to similar and came through it. Maybe it's the added distance of living away from Bristol and only seeing the odd game, but I can see how the squad is being built and I hope that the players will turn it around so that by March this run is long forgotten. However, as LJ's appointment divided plenty at the time, can he come back from this groundswell of negativity even if results do turn the corner. What would it take to bring people back from the brink to allow LJ to "do a Ferguson/Dicks" and ride out this storm to become successful. I've deliberately not mentioned GJ's run as I feel that was under different circumstances. LJ's definitely getting more time than most because the club want him to succeed. Hopefully something can happen to change this mood and bring people back on board. This club is great when it's united, as with SC's double winning season. LJ needs to strive to create the same unity between fans and players. Something deep down in me says that he won't be able to win over a significant portion of the fan base whatever he does. Which, to me, is a shame as I believe he could be successful here in the long run. If you haven't seen the matches and the rank bad decisions, I am afraid you don't really know how terrible it has been. All the worst fears some on here had when he was appointed have been realised, while the warnings from Barnsley fans about LJ have turned out to be spot on. He needs to go to a lower league club and properly prove himself by achieving something. Hopefully he won't turn us into that lower league team in the meantime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastardly and Muttley Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Balls said: If you haven't seen the matches and the rank bad decisions, I am afraid you don't really know how terrible it has been. All the worst fears some on here had when he was appointed have been realised, while the warnings from Barnsley fans about LJ have turned out to be spot on. He needs to go to a lower league club and properly prove himself by achieving something. Hopefully he won't turn us into that lower league team in the meantime! If he did that, and proved successful there, could people see him coming back in 7/8 years time as an older and wiser version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: If he did that, and proved successful there, could people see him coming back in 7/8 years time as an older and wiser version? No. Don't go back. It never works as well. Ask Mourinho about the "Second Coming". It didn't end well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 He doesn't have to win over the fans. That will happen with a siccessful team on the pitch. He has to get the dressing room totally united and it is clear that this is not the case. He must stop putting round pegs in square holes. Best examples; Hegeler, who is a defensive midfielder, playing at RCB in a back three. Joe Bryan, LB instead of Left midfield, Callum O'Dowda as the number ten. FF and ROD in goal. Tomlin as a left winger. Another City shambles. "Always Believe" that if Bristol City can **** it up, they will with 100% certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastardly and Muttley Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Balls said: No. Don't go back. It never works as well. Ask Mourinho about the "Second Coming". It didn't end well! Not sure it's possible to be worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: If he did that, and proved successful there, could people see him coming back in 7/8 years time as an older and wiser version? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dastardly and Muttley Posted January 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, cidered abroad said: He doesn't have to win over the fans. That will happen with a siccessful team on the pitch. He has to get the dressing room totally united and it is clear that this is not the case. He must stop putting round pegs in square holes. Best examples; Hageler, who is a defensive midfielder, playing at RCB in a back three. Joe Bryan, LB instead of Left midfield, Callum O'Dowda as the number ten. FF and ROD in goal. Tomlin as a left winger. Another City shambles. "Always Believe" that if Bristol City can **** it up, they will with 100% certainty. Hegeler played at centre back in the Bundesliga. Bryan has never really made one position his own for a consistent length of time. Where else would you play FF & ROD? I'll give you Tomlin and O'Dowda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 The world of football is very different from the days of Dicks and Ferguson. In some ways I prefer Cotts's stubbornness re his formation, because he at least felt he'd recruited to play that well. As Cotts-fan I didn't agree with his petulance though. I've said in a few other posts, Johnson has started to go against his own principles: - formations - no high-pressing I wanted him to succeed, but we are allowing him to do his apprenticeship in the demanding Championship, without someone teaching him the ropes. He needs help, but I think that would undermine his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: Not sure it's possible to be worse! Fair point! But on that basis would you bring back any of other ex-managers - Alan Dicks excluded? Didn't work for Joe Jordan coming back did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRERE Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: No. Don't go back. It never works as well. Ask Mourinho about the "Second Coming". It didn't end well! Worked well for Eddie Howe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, WRERE said: Worked well for Eddie Howe. He never left as manager and came back as manager. Going from player to manager at the same club can work but you still need the right man. For example Kenny Dalglish vs Graham Souness at Liverpool springs to mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRERE Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Balls said: He never left as manager and came back as manager. Going from player to manager at the same club can work but you still need the right man. For example Kenny Dalglish vs Graham Souness at Liverpool springs to mind! He managed them for over 100 games before he left for Burnley then came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, JonDolman said: He won the league though so wasnt all bad!? True. But last season was clearly a case of not getting the best out of the players available to him. You only have to look at what happened after he left and what they are doing under Conte to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, WRERE said: He managed them for over 100 games before he left for Burnley then came back. Sorry you're right. Stand corrected. The exception that proves the rule?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southstandoriginal Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 The essential difference between Dicks and Johnson is that Dicks was never given a running start with a very generous transfer kitty like Johnson. He had to slowly build with youth team players and shrewd transfers like Drysdale and Gillies. Johnson has no such excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boss hogg Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: He doesn't have to win over the fans. That will happen with a siccessful team on the pitch. He has to get the dressing room totally united and it is clear that this is not the case. He must stop putting round pegs in square holes. Best examples; Hegeler, who is a defensive midfielder, playing at RCB in a back three. Joe Bryan, LB instead of Left midfield, Callum O'Dowda as the number ten. FF and ROD in goal. Tomlin as a left winger. Another City shambles. "Always Believe" that if Bristol City can **** it up, they will with 100% certainty. fair play mate you do talk sense , it does seem simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 LJ will never be loved at this club. He was a marmite appointment. Fair play to the fans being so patient with Lee. More fair play must go the players have managed to get away without any massive backlash from the fans, years ago it would've been massively different i can assure you. Before anyone says it i'm aware who picks the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: No. Don't go back. It never works as well. Ask Mourinho about the "Second Coming". It didn't end well! Didn't he win the league in his second spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said: Didn't he win the league in his second spell? Yes he did. By basically bringing back the players who won it for him before, particularly Drogba. But in the second season the wheels fell off spectacularly and he somewhat ruined his reputation at Stamford Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 In which case could we have kept GJ in 2010 and let him rebuild just one more time? With a clear out of the alleged disruptors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 It really annoys me how people always mention fergie and dicks getting time. Shock, football has changed a bit since the 70s and 80s. What was the last team in recent years to get success after giving a manager time? I can't think of any.. Nigel cough was given loads of time at Derby and failed. Football is a now business, this romantic notion that managers should be able to play poorly and lose loads of games in the hope that they may be good one day is naive bordering on stupid in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: The world of football is very different from the days of Dicks and Ferguson. In some ways I prefer Cotts's stubbornness re his formation, because he at least felt he'd recruited to play that well. As Cotts-fan I didn't agree with his petulance though. It's funny how refusal to change a system and team was Cotterill's downfall and Lee Johnson is failing because of too many changes. There has to be a happy medium. Lessons from history although interesting don't tell us much about our current plight. Too many variables to draw comparisons. Two things stand out for me this time. - The club has spent a lot of money this season and that should have given us more than a relegation battle. - Capitulating against Reading and Cardiff show that the players are not mentally confident. They need to look at the dugout and see someone who instills confidence. I think they see LJ as someone who confuses them rather than inspiring them. We should not have lost to Cardiff. They were awful and didn't even have the derby mentality that I expected to see. Until we fell apart and they smelled blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Couldn't agree more @Xiled. Once Djuric had held off Bamba a couple of times it spread thru Cardiff's team that they wouldn't win the physical battle, and they were there for the taking, offering very little except the odd long throw. We rightly took the lead on the balance of play and retook it following the pen. I still can't believe we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redandy Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: "Man Utd almost sacked Alex Ferguson." We often hear this during runs when reasonably new managers get under pressure. Before my time, but I believe Alan Dicks was also subjected to similar and came through it. Maybe it's the added distance of living away from Bristol and only seeing the odd game, but I can see how the squad is being built and I hope that the players will turn it around so that by March this run is long forgotten. However, as LJ's appointment divided plenty at the time, can he come back from this groundswell of negativity even if results do turn the corner. What would it take to bring people back from the brink to allow LJ to "do a Ferguson/Dicks" and ride out this storm to become successful. I've deliberately not mentioned GJ's run as I feel that was under different circumstances. LJ's definitely getting more time than most because the club want him to succeed. Hopefully something can happen to change this mood and bring people back on board. This club is great when it's united, as with SC's double winning season. LJ needs to strive to create the same unity between fans and players. Something deep down in me says that he won't be able to win over a significant portion of the fan base whatever he does. Which, to me, is a shame as I believe he could be successful here in the long run. Can you tell me what LJ has done on the pitch to suggest he could be successful in the long term. Because from what I have seen he could be hear until the next century and still be as poor as he is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Dr Balls said: He never left as manager and came back as manager. Going from player to manager at the same club can work but you still need the right man. For example Kenny Dalglish vs Graham Souness at Liverpool springs to mind! Yes he did Went to Burnley but wanted to return to Bournemouth for family reasons (Have a feeling his Mum may have been very ill) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: In which case could we have kept GJ in 2010 and let him rebuild just one more time? With a clear out of the alleged disruptors? What I said at the time and since If there was ever a time to back the manager and show players the door that was it Mr Lansdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said: "Man Utd almost sacked Alex Ferguson." We often hear this during runs when reasonably new managers get under pressure. Before my time, but I believe Alan Dicks was also subjected to similar and came through it. Maybe it's the added distance of living away from Bristol and only seeing the odd game, but I can see how the squad is being built and I hope that the players will turn it around so that by March this run is long forgotten. However, as LJ's appointment divided plenty at the time, can he come back from this groundswell of negativity even if results do turn the corner. What would it take to bring people back from the brink to allow LJ to "do a Ferguson/Dicks" and ride out this storm to become successful. I've deliberately not mentioned GJ's run as I feel that was under different circumstances. LJ's definitely getting more time than most because the club want him to succeed. Hopefully something can happen to change this mood and bring people back on board. This club is great when it's united, as with SC's double winning season. LJ needs to strive to create the same unity between fans and players. Something deep down in me says that he won't be able to win over a significant portion of the fan base whatever he does. Which, to me, is a shame as I believe he could be successful here in the long run. Think the very first thing he needs to do is (And forget about the fans or any player / fan 'unity' - that will come from performances / results ) to try and get the players, or at least some of them , back on board If he can't ,and I'm wholly unconvinced he can ( I hear more about some unhappy squad members again post yesterday) I think we are in real trouble Our only other hope is that the players get it together as a group and sort it themselves in spite of , rather than because of , LJ IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: What I said at the time and since If there was ever a time to back the manager and show players the door that was it Mr Lansdown Sometimes I do wish we had. Would it have panned out anything much worse than the subsequent years between then and Cotts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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