Big Red Rich Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Will this be playing on SC'S mind do you think? Irrespective of the fact they are related, we could easily have binned off Gary (one poster in particular was very vocal that we should!) & we all know what he went on to achieve. So looking back to that spell, what was so different to now? I can't remember to much about it personally. We're we showing much more promise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Gary had been here 5 minutes. LJ has been here some time and is achieving this with his players and his style of play after spending millions. I can't see any similarity, other than the surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Gary's losing run was with an awful team that lost 7-1 to Swansea. Lee's losing run is with a team costing millions who were rightfully 5th at one stage. Gary's showed real signs of progress towards the end of the run, ours now just gets worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, Big Red Rich said: Will this be playing on SC'S mind do you think? Irrespective of the fact they are related, we could easily have binned off Gary (one poster in particular was very vocal that we should!) & we all know what he went on to achieve. So looking back to that spell, what was so different to now? I can't remember to much about it personally. We're we showing much more promise? Great thought process Rich. What was different? Well in his desperation Johnson senior was cycling in literally whoever could breathe and was available in the loan market on a weekly basis - from memory the likes of James Quinn from Peterborough - and it was a team for whom Bas Savage would be considered an upgrade. Johnson junior on the other hand has spent Premier League money on a years worth of scouted footballers designed to enhance our team - I don't want to rattle out the cliches but: more money than every other City manager in history put together, more money than top division teams in many countries etc But you raise an interesting comparison. If Lansdown is hesitating because he thinks Lee is in a similarly transitional phase trying to get the right players in and being let down by wasters and low quality lower division footballers, he has either got his eyes closed at games, or is collecting credit card points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, Big Red Rich said: Will this be playing on SC'S mind do you think? Irrespective of the fact they are related, we could easily have binned off Gary (one poster in particular was very vocal that we should!) & we all know what he went on to achieve. So looking back to that spell, what was so different to now? I can't remember to much about it personally. We're we showing much more promise? As others have said, it was a new manager trying to exert a grip on a squad that had spiralled out of control. LJ has primarily brought in his own players. 8 of the starters and all 3 subs were players he has signed so that cannot be an excuse. I actually think, had we not conceded the penalty against Cardiff, we might have recorded a win with an improved performance. Similarly I gather there were signs of improvement against Reading. What worried me yesterday, especially in the first half, was how much worse we looked than we did in the first half of the Cardiff game (which given we were nothing more than competent, organised and workmanlike was hardly a massively high bar to overcome). Yesterday was not just a defeat but a step backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 There is no comparison. GJ had inherited about 3 managers' worth of players, had been here two months and had a promotion winning track record. LJ has been here a year, (as Rob F says) has spent an absolute fortune in fees and wages and has no track record at all. He should be gone by tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: As others have said, it was a new manager trying to exert a grip on a squad that had spiralled out of control. LJ has primarily brought in his own players. 8 of the starters and all 3 subs were players he has signed so that cannot be an excuse. I actually think, had we not conceded the penalty against Cardiff, we might have recorded a win with an improved performance. Similarly I gather there were signs of improvement against Reading. What worried me yesterday, especially in the first half, was how much worse we looked than we did in the first half of the Cardiff game (which given we were nothing more than competent, organised and workmanlike was hardly a massively high bar to overcome). Yesterday was not just a defeat but a step backwards. As ( and @Olé likewisel) somebody who respects your views and opinions That is a massive concern and should be the final straw for SL & Mark Ashton if ever one was needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Towards the end of GJs streak we started to see progress. The last 20 minutes of Chesterfield the fans rallied the team. A decent and very unfortunate performance v Bradford and then the following Saturday we turned it on against Huddlesfield and never really looked back. Under LJ we seem to be going the other way. The first few defeats were unfortunate perhaps. The last few have been dire and that's with the addition of 3-4 new players as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, GrahamC said: There is no comparison. GJ had inherited about 3 managers' worth of players, had been here two months and had a promotion winning track record. LJ has been here a year, (as Rob F says) has spent an absolute fortune in fees and wages and has no track record at all. He should be gone by tomorrow morning. GJ was essentially waging war on the dressing room in order to impose some kind of authority on what was a completely chaotic environment, as the nightclub arrests stood in evidence to. As @Olésaid; he basically flooded the squad with low quality loan signings, and challenged any of the players already here with any sense of pride to rise up and show him they were more than just wasters. I'm convinced that the mentality that got us to the play off final two and a half years later was born from that conflict. But GJ was 'fresh off the boat', and I don't think anyone can say that at the time we didn't need the sort of 'tough love' that he brought in. The background to LJ's run is completely different. He took over a thin squad that had experienced recent success (albeit at a lower level), that had just been bolstered by a several signings (Golbourne, Pierce, Gladwin, Tomlin), and after keeping us up has seen an incredible level of investment. He has then had a summer and six months with the squad, and yet we are looking less and less able to compete; this isn't a club in crisis in any place except on the pitch. He has to step aside or be removed; I fully believe we have the foundations of not just a reasonable Championship side, but a progressive Championship club set-up - the missing ingredient is a Championship head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Gary also had Managerial Experience and some credibility having brought Yeovil into , and established in the Football League Oh and had been an International Manager too Meanwhile Lee has visited Barcelona , A&E , The Army , and been in a 4-4-2 article and ................. ........... ........... Similar ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, samo II said: He has then had a summer and six months with the squad, and yet we are looking less and less able to compete; this isn't a club in crisis in any place except on the pitch. Ding ding ding we have a winner. I would also note, as commented to friends after the game, that LJ is not our manager, he was recruited as head coach. Odd therefore that after a year almost to a man every one of our players looks worse, less aware of their role, less able to contribute or affect a game of football. That's quite some going from someone brought in to a structure ultimately to deliver progress and development from the playing squad. You could make a case only that Bobby Reid has developed in the past year, and the Head Coach appears to have dispensed with him altogether! The alarm bells should have been going off the minute the "Head Coach", who in his own words hired Holden to give the coaches "more time to work with the players" they had, instead told the club the answer to his own problems was to spend lots more money and buy more players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 18 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Gary also had Managerial Experience and some credibility having brought Yeovil into , and established in the Football League Oh and had been an International Manager too Meanwhile Lee has visited Barcelona , A&E , The Army , and been in a 4-4-2 article and ................. ........... ........... Similar ......... GJ had won the Conference and then League Two, that is a winning track record, so many of us (not all!) were supportive of him, believing he could get it right. We were also at a real low as a club post the Swansea hammering and many thought that further chopping and changing simply made no sense. It is a bit like the Steve Bruce, Ross McCormack issue going on at the moment, Villa fans will support Bruce for calling out McCormack over his fitness and attitude because firstly Bruce is a serial Championship promotion winner and secondly they know it is a "one off". Someone with far less credibility (like LJ) doing this more often simply loses any respect they ever had.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, Tomarse said: Towards the end of GJs streak we started to see progress. The last 20 minutes of Chesterfield the fans rallied the team. A decent and very unfortunate performance v Bradford and then the following Saturday we turned it on against Huddlesfield and never really looked back. Under LJ we seem to be going the other way. The first few defeats were unfortunate perhaps. The last few have been dire and that's with the addition of 3-4 new players as well. You are right Tom. I must admit I had to look this up but the reaction to the 7 match losing run under GJ was that we then went six games undefeated (4 wins). There is not a snowball's chance in hell we will now do that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Thing is...the only reason anyone connects GJ and LJ as managers is their family relationship...I accept that's as close a relationship as you're likely to find in professional football but there is zero correlation between their respective managerial experiences prior to joining Bristol City or their demonstrable qualifications to lead and manage players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Olé said: Ding ding ding we have a winner. I would also note, as commented to friends after the game, that LJ is not our manager, he was recruited as head coach. Odd therefore that after a year almost to a man every one of our players looks worse, less aware of their role, less able to contribute or affect a game of football. That's quite some going from someone brought in to a structure ultimately to deliver progress and development from the playing squad. You could make a case only that Bobby Reid has developed in the past year, and the Head Coach appears to have dispensed with him altogether! The alarm bells should have been going off the minute the "Head Coach", who in his own words hired Holden to give the coaches "more time to work with the players" they had, instead told the club the answer to his own problems was to spend lots more money and buy more players. My only hope is that the whole 'head coach not manager' thing means that when it comes to dispensing with LJ, the transition is smoother, as he's just a part of a ongoing team, not the lynchpin for the whole project. But I'm not sure it will be that simple. The appointment of Holden has added 'his man' to the coaching staff, complicating the situation that made sense when it was Pembo in at number two - like Millen, JP was the old head who kept continuity, but I worry that is now diluted. Equally; hearing Ashton say he sat in on the video reviews of matched in his recent interview scared the living shit out of me - for me that sounds far, far too much like the job of a director of football, not a chief exec, who needs distance from both the players and coaching staff, as he needs to be the one to pull the trigger on them, if circumstances dictate it. As I say; it's a 'hope', not an expectation, but would like Ashton to show the type of ruthlessness 'suits' like he is tend to keep in their locker. I'd be even more concerned than I am already if it turns out we can't even appoint a executive who has cold enough blood to to the unpleasant but required 'wetwork' in times of crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Big Red Rich said: Will this be playing on SC'S mind do you think? Irrespective of the fact they are related, we could easily have binned off Gary (one poster in particular was very vocal that we should!) & we all know what he went on to achieve. So looking back to that spell, what was so different to now? I can't remember to much about it personally. We're we showing much more promise? GJ and Cotts are related? #mindblown Can't imagine Cotts would give a shite really. He might be laughing inwardly at our current demise but I doubt it. Probably thinking what he'd have done with the millions given to LJ that he wasn't privy to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, samo II said: My only hope is that the whole 'head coach not manager' thing means that when it comes to dispensing with LJ, the transition is smoother, as he's just a part of a ongoing team, not the lynchpin for the whole project. But I'm not sure it will be that simple. The appointment of Holden has added 'his man' to the coaching staff, complicating the situation that made sense when it was Pembo in at number two - like Millen, JP was the old head who kept continuity, but I worry that is now diluted. Equally; hearing Ashton say he sat in on the video reviews of matched in his recent interview scared the living shit out of me - for me that sounds far, far too much like the job of a director of football, not a chief exec, who needs distance from both the players and coaching staff, as he needs to be the one to pull the trigger on them, if circumstances dictate it. As I say; it's a 'hope', not an expectation, but would like Ashton to show the type of ruthlessness 'suits' like he is tend to keep in their locker. I'd be even more concerned than I am already if it turns out we can't even appoint a executive who has cold enough blood to to the unpleasant but required 'wetwork' in times of crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Big Red Rich said: Will this be playing on SC'S mind do you think? Irrespective of the fact they are related, we could easily have binned off Gary (one poster in particular was very vocal that we should!) & we all know what he went on to achieve. So looking back to that spell, what was so different to now? I can't remember to much about it personally. We're we showing much more promise? Gary Johnson had to contend with the fall-out from a major incident on October 12th 2005, that reached its conclusion 11 months later: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/5306506.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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