Steve Lansdown's "gut instinct" and some other quotes that might be of interest

[Jack Dawe]

A few weeks ago I quoted SL from a Post interview he gave in May, looking back at their decision to replace Cotts with LJ. Here's the bit that hints at his - and uncle Keith's - gut instinct that they had last January about Lee, an instinct they were persuaded to ignore by ...... well, I think he explains here:

 

SL: " Keith Dawe and myself had always been in contact with him, even during the time he was at Oldham and Barnsley. He had always been on our radar as somebody we might want to bring to the football club at some point in the future.

When the opportunity arose, we obviously thought of him and wondered whether it might not be a bit too soon for him.

He convinced us it would not be and gave an impressive interview."

 

So, Steve and Keith's gut instinct, that it might be "too soon" appears to have been correct. Worth listening to. But Lee "convinced" Steve and Keith otherwise, no surprise there, we have all - or many of us - been wowed by Lee's talk, and theory (less so by his practice). Interestingly though, on first meeting the press, on 8 Feb, Lee said:

 

LJ: "I've always wanted to manage Bristol City, but I never thought it would come this quickly."

 

So, that to me, is Lee's gut instinct there, pretty much in line with Steve and Keith's. And many, many City fans gut instinct was the same: has Lee done enough to have got this job on merit? Is he the best man we can get?

I think we all know the answer to that.

 

So, a lot of people thought it might be a touch too soon - just not yet; he might be a top coach in future but Bristol City now, in this league, needs someone more experienced and qualified - but a lot of "persuading" and "convincing" ruled the day, hoodwinked the gut instinct.

 

In that interview, the thoughts of "some City fans" about lack of Championship experience was put to Lee, and he referenced his relegation battle experience at Oldham, highlighting this:

 

LJ: "For me it's about the process and everybody sticking together. If you have that, it can be a powerful force."

 

Indeed. The converse must also be true, then: if you don't have everybody together, it can be a destructive, undermining force? You have to wonder if this is what we are missing right now, this togetherness? What "force" is holding sway in the dressing room right now?

 

 

Back in that May interview, SL stated that the decision to appoint a 34 year old with only L1 experience and only one full, completed season under his belt, from a midtable L1 club, to be:

 

SL: "bold and far sighted." 

 

Yes Steve, it was certainly "bold." Your gut instinct was telling you this a year ago. But what is your (and Keith's!) gut instinct telling you this morning? And is anything about Lee "convincing" you now??

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Apparently it always too soon for aspiring coaches/managers to come here yet others make a right go and have a modicum of success at other clubs, so when is it exactly time here? 

There's never a good time it seems, either they stick to the 'plan' they have now and gut it out for the long term benefit or they look for a more experienced man who probably won't buy into the clubs mandate and look for short term success with no long term reward... either way whatever happens, it doesn't work

 

[shelts]

It might be telling him we're not in the relegation places just yet and the run  could be quickly turned around. His belief in Lee could still be as strong as ever. 

[pongo88]

4 minutes ago, shelts said:

It might be telling him we're not in the relegation places just yet and the run  could be quickly turned around. His belief in Lee could still be as strong as ever. 

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

[Nomad]

[marmite]

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

[Guest]

I bet you Birmingham are/we're glad they didn't consider Gary Rowett too wet behind the ears after 18m at Burton being his sole experience. 

To be honest SL's instinct has rarely been right so it's surprising to suggest he should listen to it. 

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

9 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

All very true in hindsight and the ludicrous descriptions being banded about Like Taylor Moore being more like Bobby.

He seems very average to me as Caulker much more advanced at his age as doing the business on the actual pitch.

[Kid in the Riot]

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

[WhistleHappy]

Hmm, don't like to say it, but, it seems we're not too far from thinking the phrase..... 

'A Fool & His Money Are Soon Parted' ... has some relevance here.

[Jack Dawe]

51 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I bet you Birmingham are/we're glad they didn't consider Gary Rowett too wet behind the ears after 18m at Burton being his sole experience. 

To be honest SL's instinct has rarely been right so it's surprising to suggest he should listen to it. 

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

[Red-Robbo]

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

I think you have something there, Kid.

Another family trait evidently is an inability to manage under pressure.

Gary reacted by ranting and raving and hitting people.  I can't see Lee being like that, but it's clear he's withdrawn into his shell and is as tense as hell and that's communicated itself to the team who play as if they are terrified. 

[Londoner]

1 hour ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Apparently it always too soon for aspiring coaches/managers to come here yet others make a right go and have a modicum of success at other clubs, so when is it exactly time here? 

There's never a good time it seems, either they stick to the 'plan' they have now and gut it out for the long term benefit or they look for a more experienced man who probably won't buy into the clubs mandate and look for short term success with no long term reward... either way whatever happens, it doesn't work

 

Give some examples re first paragraph

[Chairman Mao]

there's only one gut instinct at the moment at BS3

 

and thats Tomlin's whenever he sees a curry house

[Davefevs]

@Jack Dawe nice post, and some good additions from the rest of you.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

It must be obvious to anyone who knows anything about football that all is not well at BCFC despite all the advantages we have .

 I sincerely hope that SL is brave enough to listen to those around him and let Lee go . 

I fear that it was a touch too soon for LJ. 

Perhaps he can come home as a hero in time but can we really wait whilst he learns his trade in one of the most competitive leagues in the world ? 

[1bristolcity]

If Lee is such an asset , what about standing him down for a bit, send him on some more coaching courses, or if possible work with an experienced coach, plainly he needs more training in coaching, the top Spanish coaches have to endure years of training. In this country we sack, move on to the next, and sack. The money that is wasted in paying up contracts is crazy, that money would be better invested in training.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

Indeed, but didn't that experience lead him to appoint a chief exec from within football because he didn't trust his own judgment? 

I get what you're saying, and I am a committed SL fan, but if I was him I'd probably act against my instinct too after those experiences 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

If Lee is such an asset , what about standing him down for a bit, send him on some more coaching courses, or if possible work with an experienced coach, plainly he needs more training in coaching, the top Spanish coaches have to endure years of training. In this country we sack, move on to the next, and sack. The money that is wasted in paying up contracts is crazy, that money would be better invested in training.

I get that, but it's always undermining if there's an admission of needing help or a 'secondment' needed. It would be hard to come back and win the dressing room or to have control after the calming influence goes and the first sign of bad form it would be 'he needs help'. 

Unfortunately I think there are only two ways. Sack or back in the market. We've gone with the latter, but I think the former is becoming, if it has not become, inevitable. As someone who wanted LJ to have time, I could not complain if he gets the chop and neither can he.

I still have the thread of hope that he'll come out the other side and so if he stays I'll continue to support and hope. I'm not offended by anyone calling me naive because I even suspect that in myself. Hence why if I was SL right now I'd sack. 

[Jack Dawe]

2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Indeed, but didn't that experience lead him to appoint a chief exec from within football because he didn't trust his own judgment? 

I get what you're saying, and I am a committed SL fan, but if I was him I'd probably act against my instinct too after those experiences 

Yes, I would guess he will give MA the floor - full rein - on the next appointment. Going for LJ suggests SL has run out of ideas on this. If MA's appointment fails, or one too many of them, SL finds a new chief exec (COO). That's my understanding of how it will be but I could be wildly wrong

[Poshtottie]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

A few weeks ago I quoted SL from a Post interview he gave in May, looking back at their decision to replace Cotts with LJ. Here's the bit that hints at his - and uncle Keith's - gut instinct that they had last January about Lee, an instinct they were persuaded to ignore by ...... well, I think he explains here:

 

SL: " Keith Dawe and myself had always been in contact with him, even during the time he was at Oldham and Barnsley. He had always been on our radar as somebody we might want to bring to the football club at some point in the future.

When the opportunity arose, we obviously thought of him and wondered whether it might not be a bit too soon for him.

He convinced us it would not be and gave an impressive interview."

 

So, Steve and Keith's gut instinct, that it might be "too soon" appears to have been correct. Worth listening to. But Lee "convinced" Steve and Keith otherwise, no surprise there, we have all - or many of us - been wowed by Lee's talk, and theory (less so by his practice). Interestingly though, on first meeting the press, on 8 Feb, Lee said:

 

LJ: "I've always wanted to manage Bristol City, but I never thought it would come this quickly."

 

So, that to me, is Lee's gut instinct there, pretty much in line with Steve and Keith's. And many, many City fans gut instinct was the same: has Lee done enough to have got this job on merit? Is he the best man we can get?

I think we all know the answer to that.

 

So, a lot of people thought it might be a touch too soon - just not yet; he might be a top coach in future but Bristol City now, in this league, needs someone more experienced and qualified - but a lot of "persuading" and "convincing" ruled the day, hoodwinked the gut instinct.

 

In that interview, the thoughts of "some City fans" about lack of Championship experience was put to Lee, and he referenced his relegation battle experience at Oldham, highlighting this:

 

LJ: "For me it's about the process and everybody sticking together. If you have that, it can be a powerful force."

 

Indeed. The converse must also be true, then: if you don't have everybody together, it can be a destructive, undermining force? You have to wonder if this is what we are missing right now, this togetherness? What "force" is holding sway in the dressing room right now?

 

 

Back in that May interview, SL stated that the decision to appoint a 34 year old with only L1 experience and only one full, completed season under his belt, from a midtable L1 club, to be:

 

SL: "bold and far sighted." 

 

Yes Steve, it was certainly "bold." Your gut instinct was telling you this a year ago. But what is your (and Keith's!) gut instinct telling you this morning? And is anything about Lee "convincing" you now??

 

As I have said before I don't blame Lee Johnson at all for wanting to manage a Club like City. Who wouldn't want this really! Problem being a young team needed experienced manager! Lee Has not found himself yet as a manager and our team was not strong enough to hold out while his does search!

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

Actually SL told us at one point that GJ didn't want to pay Crewe's price for Maynard but SL told him to go ahead so it worked both ways.

Doubtless he would be criticised if he refused to give managers money so he's on a hiding to nothing.

[glynriley]

2 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

As I have said before I don't blame Lee Johnson at all for wanting to manage a Club like City. Who wouldn't want this really! Problem being a young team needed experienced manager! Lee Has not found himself yet as a manager and our team was not strong enough to hold out while his does search!

Spot on. Who wouldn't want to work for an owner who backs his managers (with one or 2 exceptions) with bundles of cash?

An owner who allows his managers to go on long losing / non winning runs before pulling the trigger?

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

[1bristolcity]

11 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I get that, but it's always undermining if there's an admission of needing help or a 'secondment' needed. It would be hard to come back and win the dressing room or to have control after the calming influence goes and the first sign of bad form it would be 'he needs help'. 

Unfortunately I think there are only two ways. Sack or back in the market. We've gone with the latter, but I think the former is becoming, if it has not become, inevitable. As someone who wanted LJ to have time, I could not complain if he gets the chop and neither can he.

I still have the thread of hope that he'll come out the other side and so if he stays I'll continue to support and hope. I'm not offended by anyone calling me naive because I even suspect that in myself. Hence why if I was SL right now I'd sack. 

Yep all you say is a potential issue, with dressing room etc...saving face, but what we do is plain wrong, it's a crazy merry go round with managers, nobody learns anything, that's why all the top coaches are not English. The FA need to set up coaching school, where any issues can be dealt with with retraining,, and even a chance to just cool off, as with the situation we have. Pembo is a good solid coach, I see nothing wrong with him having a bigger profile, but ego's will have to take a back seat. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

14 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

As I have said before I don't blame Lee Johnson at all for wanting to manage a Club like City. Who wouldn't want this really! Problem being a young team needed experienced manager! Lee Has not found himself yet as a manager and our team was not strong enough to hold out while his does search!

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

[Poshtottie]

1 minute ago, 1bristolcity said:

Pembo is a good solid coach

Yes he is but BCFC is supposed to be a sleeping giant of a football Club so why don't people start acting like this and go after a manager with proven experience backed up with no other Success!

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

Yep, the manager job is surely the most important at any football club so why do we continue to shop in the bargain basement when the owner could afford a top one? I think I know why.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

I think the experience I'd be looking for if I was serious about getting to the Premier League would be a manager who has achieved promotion to it and/or managed in it.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the experience I'd be looking for if I was serious about getting to the Premier League would be a manager who has achieved promotion to it and/or managed in it.

Absolutely right

A Bruce , Hughton , if one such as become available you grab them while they are

[1bristolcity]

8 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

Yes he is but BCFC is supposed to be a sleeping giant of a football Club so why don't people start acting like this and go after a manager with proven experience backed up with no other Success!

As I said we need to improve coaches I guess, rather then keep changing managers, when you think about it it's a crazy thing this football manager musical chairs. Success is built on long term stability, I give you Alex Ferguson.