Steve Lansdown's "gut instinct" and some other quotes that might be of interest

[Jack Dawe]

A few weeks ago I quoted SL from a Post interview he gave in May, looking back at their decision to replace Cotts with LJ. Here's the bit that hints at his - and uncle Keith's - gut instinct that they had last January about Lee, an instinct they were persuaded to ignore by ...... well, I think he explains here:

 

SL: " Keith Dawe and myself had always been in contact with him, even during the time he was at Oldham and Barnsley. He had always been on our radar as somebody we might want to bring to the football club at some point in the future.

When the opportunity arose, we obviously thought of him and wondered whether it might not be a bit too soon for him.

He convinced us it would not be and gave an impressive interview."

 

So, Steve and Keith's gut instinct, that it might be "too soon" appears to have been correct. Worth listening to. But Lee "convinced" Steve and Keith otherwise, no surprise there, we have all - or many of us - been wowed by Lee's talk, and theory (less so by his practice). Interestingly though, on first meeting the press, on 8 Feb, Lee said:

 

LJ: "I've always wanted to manage Bristol City, but I never thought it would come this quickly."

 

So, that to me, is Lee's gut instinct there, pretty much in line with Steve and Keith's. And many, many City fans gut instinct was the same: has Lee done enough to have got this job on merit? Is he the best man we can get?

I think we all know the answer to that.

 

So, a lot of people thought it might be a touch too soon - just not yet; he might be a top coach in future but Bristol City now, in this league, needs someone more experienced and qualified - but a lot of "persuading" and "convincing" ruled the day, hoodwinked the gut instinct.

 

In that interview, the thoughts of "some City fans" about lack of Championship experience was put to Lee, and he referenced his relegation battle experience at Oldham, highlighting this:

 

LJ: "For me it's about the process and everybody sticking together. If you have that, it can be a powerful force."

 

Indeed. The converse must also be true, then: if you don't have everybody together, it can be a destructive, undermining force? You have to wonder if this is what we are missing right now, this togetherness? What "force" is holding sway in the dressing room right now?

 

 

Back in that May interview, SL stated that the decision to appoint a 34 year old with only L1 experience and only one full, completed season under his belt, from a midtable L1 club, to be:

 

SL: "bold and far sighted." 

 

Yes Steve, it was certainly "bold." Your gut instinct was telling you this a year ago. But what is your (and Keith's!) gut instinct telling you this morning? And is anything about Lee "convincing" you now??

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Apparently it always too soon for aspiring coaches/managers to come here yet others make a right go and have a modicum of success at other clubs, so when is it exactly time here? 

There's never a good time it seems, either they stick to the 'plan' they have now and gut it out for the long term benefit or they look for a more experienced man who probably won't buy into the clubs mandate and look for short term success with no long term reward... either way whatever happens, it doesn't work

 

[shelts]

It might be telling him we're not in the relegation places just yet and the run  could be quickly turned around. His belief in Lee could still be as strong as ever. 

[pongo88]

4 minutes ago, shelts said:

It might be telling him we're not in the relegation places just yet and the run  could be quickly turned around. His belief in Lee could still be as strong as ever. 

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

[Nomad]

[marmite]

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

[Guest]

I bet you Birmingham are/we're glad they didn't consider Gary Rowett too wet behind the ears after 18m at Burton being his sole experience. 

To be honest SL's instinct has rarely been right so it's surprising to suggest he should listen to it. 

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

9 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

All very true in hindsight and the ludicrous descriptions being banded about Like Taylor Moore being more like Bobby.

He seems very average to me as Caulker much more advanced at his age as doing the business on the actual pitch.

[Kid in the Riot]

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

[WhistleHappy]

Hmm, don't like to say it, but, it seems we're not too far from thinking the phrase..... 

'A Fool & His Money Are Soon Parted' ... has some relevance here.

[Jack Dawe]

51 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I bet you Birmingham are/we're glad they didn't consider Gary Rowett too wet behind the ears after 18m at Burton being his sole experience. 

To be honest SL's instinct has rarely been right so it's surprising to suggest he should listen to it. 

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

[Red-Robbo]

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

I think you have something there, Kid.

Another family trait evidently is an inability to manage under pressure.

Gary reacted by ranting and raving and hitting people.  I can't see Lee being like that, but it's clear he's withdrawn into his shell and is as tense as hell and that's communicated itself to the team who play as if they are terrified. 

[Chairman Mao]

there's only one gut instinct at the moment at BS3

 

and thats Tomlin's whenever he sees a curry house

[Davefevs]

@Jack Dawe nice post, and some good additions from the rest of you.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, marmite said:

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

It must be obvious to anyone who knows anything about football that all is not well at BCFC despite all the advantages we have .

 I sincerely hope that SL is brave enough to listen to those around him and let Lee go . 

I fear that it was a touch too soon for LJ. 

Perhaps he can come home as a hero in time but can we really wait whilst he learns his trade in one of the most competitive leagues in the world ? 

[1bristolcity]

If Lee is such an asset , what about standing him down for a bit, send him on some more coaching courses, or if possible work with an experienced coach, plainly he needs more training in coaching, the top Spanish coaches have to endure years of training. In this country we sack, move on to the next, and sack. The money that is wasted in paying up contracts is crazy, that money would be better invested in training.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

Indeed, but didn't that experience lead him to appoint a chief exec from within football because he didn't trust his own judgment? 

I get what you're saying, and I am a committed SL fan, but if I was him I'd probably act against my instinct too after those experiences 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

If Lee is such an asset , what about standing him down for a bit, send him on some more coaching courses, or if possible work with an experienced coach, plainly he needs more training in coaching, the top Spanish coaches have to endure years of training. In this country we sack, move on to the next, and sack. The money that is wasted in paying up contracts is crazy, that money would be better invested in training.

I get that, but it's always undermining if there's an admission of needing help or a 'secondment' needed. It would be hard to come back and win the dressing room or to have control after the calming influence goes and the first sign of bad form it would be 'he needs help'. 

Unfortunately I think there are only two ways. Sack or back in the market. We've gone with the latter, but I think the former is becoming, if it has not become, inevitable. As someone who wanted LJ to have time, I could not complain if he gets the chop and neither can he.

I still have the thread of hope that he'll come out the other side and so if he stays I'll continue to support and hope. I'm not offended by anyone calling me naive because I even suspect that in myself. Hence why if I was SL right now I'd sack. 

[Jack Dawe]

2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Indeed, but didn't that experience lead him to appoint a chief exec from within football because he didn't trust his own judgment? 

I get what you're saying, and I am a committed SL fan, but if I was him I'd probably act against my instinct too after those experiences 

Yes, I would guess he will give MA the floor - full rein - on the next appointment. Going for LJ suggests SL has run out of ideas on this. If MA's appointment fails, or one too many of them, SL finds a new chief exec (COO). That's my understanding of how it will be but I could be wildly wrong

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'll give you another SL quote I recall from a supporters Q and A about GJ: "Gary can be very persuasive". This was at the time that SL gave GJ an open chequebook for a host of crap signings inc loans.

So the persuasiveness must be a family trait. Not necessarily a bad trait to have in football management but given past experience with the other Johnson maybe SL should've trusted his gut instinct and not been persuaded otherwise.

Still, easy to say in hindsight.

Actually SL told us at one point that GJ didn't want to pay Crewe's price for Maynard but SL told him to go ahead so it worked both ways.

Doubtless he would be criticised if he refused to give managers money so he's on a hiding to nothing.

[glynriley]

2 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

As I have said before I don't blame Lee Johnson at all for wanting to manage a Club like City. Who wouldn't want this really! Problem being a young team needed experienced manager! Lee Has not found himself yet as a manager and our team was not strong enough to hold out while his does search!

Spot on. Who wouldn't want to work for an owner who backs his managers (with one or 2 exceptions) with bundles of cash?

An owner who allows his managers to go on long losing / non winning runs before pulling the trigger?

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

[1bristolcity]

11 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I get that, but it's always undermining if there's an admission of needing help or a 'secondment' needed. It would be hard to come back and win the dressing room or to have control after the calming influence goes and the first sign of bad form it would be 'he needs help'. 

Unfortunately I think there are only two ways. Sack or back in the market. We've gone with the latter, but I think the former is becoming, if it has not become, inevitable. As someone who wanted LJ to have time, I could not complain if he gets the chop and neither can he.

I still have the thread of hope that he'll come out the other side and so if he stays I'll continue to support and hope. I'm not offended by anyone calling me naive because I even suspect that in myself. Hence why if I was SL right now I'd sack. 

Yep all you say is a potential issue, with dressing room etc...saving face, but what we do is plain wrong, it's a crazy merry go round with managers, nobody learns anything, that's why all the top coaches are not English. The FA need to set up coaching school, where any issues can be dealt with with retraining,, and even a chance to just cool off, as with the situation we have. Pembo is a good solid coach, I see nothing wrong with him having a bigger profile, but ego's will have to take a back seat. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

14 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

As I have said before I don't blame Lee Johnson at all for wanting to manage a Club like City. Who wouldn't want this really! Problem being a young team needed experienced manager! Lee Has not found himself yet as a manager and our team was not strong enough to hold out while his does search!

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

Yep, the manager job is surely the most important at any football club so why do we continue to shop in the bargain basement when the owner could afford a top one? I think I know why.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

I think the experience I'd be looking for if I was serious about getting to the Premier League would be a manager who has achieved promotion to it and/or managed in it.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the experience I'd be looking for if I was serious about getting to the Premier League would be a manager who has achieved promotion to it and/or managed in it.

Absolutely right

A Bruce , Hughton , if one such as become available you grab them while they are

[1bristolcity]

8 minutes ago, Poshtottie said:

Yes he is but BCFC is supposed to be a sleeping giant of a football Club so why don't people start acting like this and go after a manager with proven experience backed up with no other Success!

As I said we need to improve coaches I guess, rather then keep changing managers, when you think about it it's a crazy thing this football manager musical chairs. Success is built on long term stability, I give you Alex Ferguson.

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Depends how you term the word experience.. we've had 'experienced' managers at this level and they've failed also

Such as?

Apart from Cotterill and SOD (forget Coppells 1 game in charge) you probably have to go back to Denis Smith to find someone who has managed us at this level, with any experience of it.

Millen, McInnes, Johnson, Ward and Osman are, I think, the other managers we've had in the second tier since Smith none of whom had any experience at this level.

[1bristolcity]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Absolutely right

A Bruce , Hughton , if one such as become available you grab them while they are

Wouldn't want to come here.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, 1bristolcity said:

Wouldn't want to come here.

Possibly not when we are in this mess 

(Again )

 

What I'm saying is when we are 'ok'  with A N OTHER at the helm , and when ready to push on you wait for a Bruce type to fall on the market and you move quick

Hello Mr Bruce

Goodbye Mr A N Other

 

Ruthless ? Yes

Required to succeed - Likely

[Jack Dawe]

29 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

As I said we need to improve coaches I guess, rather then keep changing managers, when you think about it it's a crazy thing this football manager musical chairs. Success is built on long term stability, I give you Alex Ferguson.

A lovely thought - that Bristol City are so strong, so solid at this level of football, that we can afford to "improve" the Head Coach on the job. Alas, we are in no position to do this. In L1, maybe......

A young player can be "improved" in the U23s, through coaching, with substitute appearances, by going out on loan - all where his mistakes are not too costly, or at someone else's expense. But a Head Coach has no such luxury or alternatives; his mistakes are costly. And wide-reaching.

I cannot imagine the interview last Jan/Feb involved talk of Lee "learning on the job" and being given a chance to "improve" in the midst of a desperate relegation struggle. That is not the impression we were given at the time. We were told:

Lee was the outstanding candidate (MA)

He will take us forward (MA)

Lee has great ability (SL)

We are lucky to have Lee Johnson as our new Head Coach (SL).

I see a young, up-and-coming manager who has good experience under his belt (SL).

He is an in demand manager (SL).

I know him better than any manager we could have appointed (SL)***

We want somebody who can come in and make the football side of the club top-rate (SL)

I know Lee is good tactically (SL)

Lee might lack Championship experience, but you only have to look at his record.....he pushed them (Oldham) towards the play-offs.....on a not very big budget (SL)

The fact is, Lee will fit seamlessly into what we are trying to do here (SL)***

 

Then, in May:

We have made so much progress in the past few months, that I feel that we are going into the summer in a good place to take it forward (SL)

___________________________________________________________________________

 

I can find nothing about us "improving" Lee. We were in the sh1t when he arrived. He was brought here to "improve" us, and then "take it forward" this season. We were, undoubtedly, in a "good place to take it forward" both in the summer, and the autumn.

 

***My guess is these two quotes point us toward what most attracted SL to LJ, particularly following his difficulties with Cotterill.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Possibly not when we are in this mess 

(Again )

 

What I'm saying is when we are 'ok'  with A N OTHER at the helm , and when ready to push on you wait for a Bruce type to fall on the market and you move quick

Hello Mr Bruce

Goodbye Mr A N Other

 

Ruthless ? Yes

Required to succeed - Likely

Indeed Bob, this is what Southampton did to move forward, Adkins was doing a good job their, but the board identified Pochettino as the man that could take them even further and made the switch. 

[shelts]

3 hours ago, pongo88 said:

We're not in the relegation places just yet, by 2 points, but that's due to the cushion provided by the first 2-3 months of the season. If City had been playing really well then, I might be confident LJ could turn things around. Unfortunately, even when City was winning, the performances were variable to say the least. Matches were saved by Tammy's goals and / or a 30 minutes or so period of play when City played well. Throw in the fact that we've spent millions on Engall and Moore who can't get into the team, and Paterson and O'Dowda who look like powder puff players and LJ strategy seems non existent.  I really hope that SL looks back on the season as a whole and takes the necessary action

I wouldn't hold your breath. Last time I saw us play well was at home second half against Forest. Wilbs came on and we looked decent . 

[ontariored]

3 hours ago, marmite said:

Even if SL still believes LJ can turn things round and will be here for the long term, it must be obvious to the board that he is struggling big time. If LJ has to stay then get him some experienced help NOW!!. The guy is so far out of his depth. He needs some guidance and he needs it fast or we will sink like a stone.

 

 

Great post!!

[Xiled]

2 hours ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Indeed Bob, this is what Southampton did to move forward, Adkins was doing a good job their, but the board identified Pochettino as the man that could take them even further and made the switch. 

Huge, huge gamble! If a manager is doing okay (especially with our recent record) then taking a chance on an even better manager could backfire spectacularly. Pochettino couldn't even speak English when he arrived in Southampton, I can't see any club taking a chance like that unless the incumbent had already started burning bridges.

[Red Exile]

Two thoughts regarding comparisons in this thread:

1. when Alex Fergusson was appointed Man U. manager he was the winner of domestic leagues title, domestic and European cup competitions and had managed his national side at the World Cup...I'd suggest that that was a demonstrable track record of success with which to fend off doubters...LJ is some way off any of those achievements! 

2. Southampton are a club that have been playing in the top flight on and off for 50 years...and despite spectacular board upheavals in recent times and all sorts of woes they nonetheless attract people to run them who have the means and ambition to sustain top flight football. I'd love us to be more like Southampton, but for whatever reason Bristol City has none of that experience...and precious little evidence of that sort of ambition.

[Ivorguy]

The original poster's quote from SL tells everyone in what a horrendously amateur way this club is being run

I have been, and am, appalled as someone who has been in his career a CEO of a multi million pound company.

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

2. Southampton are a club that have been playing in the top flight on and off for 50 years...and despite spectacular board upheavals in recent times and all sorts of woes they nonetheless attract people to run them who have the means and ambition to sustain top flight football. I'd love us to be more like Southampton, but for whatever reason Bristol City has none of that experience...and precious little evidence of that sort of ambition.

I think that's the bit that kills me...the apparent lack of ambition...

Tinnion, Millen, McInnes, SOD, LJ.

Do ANY of those names smack you of "crikey this owner definitely wants to get his club into the top flight asap"?

Do they ****.

[Red Exile]

19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think that's the bit that kills me...the apparent lack of ambition...

And the problem, for me, and the bit that I lose patience with, is that the ambition is all words, words that the actions so singularly fail to match as @Jack Dawe's quotes so eloquently make clear...

[Engvall's Splinter]

6 hours ago, glynriley said:

Spot on. Who wouldn't want to work for an owner who backs his managers (with one or 2 exceptions) with bundles of cash?

An owner who allows his managers to go on long losing / non winning runs before pulling the trigger?

I'd imagine there are a good number of managers who'd love to work for Steve L. The unfathomable thing is why SL won't pay top dollar for a guy in the hot seat (Coppell aside) 

If,and almost certainly now, when, LJ is dumped, he has to go for the best man for the job, and pay the going rate.

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

[EnclosureSurge]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

is that the ambition is all words, words that the actions so singularly fail to match

I'd go further than that, Lansdown's words about ambition (he has regularly mentioned us getting into the Premiership) are words backed up by, not even failed action, but such wrong decisions and incompetence. Very grateful for his money, but he should let someone else have ultimate say on things, someone with a long, successful football background.

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Port Pete said:

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

I think he was sacked because he couldn't get us out of the relegation zone for 5 months and seemed incapable of recruiting anyone, rather than as a result of his personality.

Agree with your last sentence mind....

[Engvall's Splinter]

21 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think he was sacked because he couldn't get us out of the relegation zone for 5 months and seemed incapable of recruiting anyone, rather than as a result of his personality.

Agree with your last sentence mind....

I don't dispute why SC was sacked. Results related ultimately which I agree. The character of Lansdowns appointments are what I'm referring too really. 

With past history, if Johnson was to go, it would most likely end up with Pemberton at the helm for an extended period, Millen returning or another likeable guy rather than one who's likely to drag us out the mire. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Port Pete said:

I don't dispute why SC was sacked. Results related ultimately which I agree. The character of Lansdowns appointments are what I'm referring too really. 

With past history, if Johnson was to go, it would most likely end up with Pemberton at the helm for an extended period, Millen returning or another likeable guy rather than one who's likely to drag us out the mire. 

To be honest, I think Pembo could probably get us enough points to stay clear of the drop. He improved Cotts' team just by doing the obvious things.

He'd be my this season choice if we haven't got anyone better lined up.

[Jack Dawe]

35 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

I'd go further than that, Lansdown's words about ambition (he has regularly mentioned us getting into the Premiership) are words backed up by, not even failed action, but such wrong decisions and incompetence. Very grateful for his money, but he should let someone else have ultimate say on things, someone with a long, successful football background.

To be fair to SL, that is why MA is here now, I believe? That's a step forward (fingers crossed). It's a lot to expect him to cover debt, revamp the ground and etc, etc, then back off completely and leave others to spend his and our dosh.

[EnclosureSurge]

8 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

To be fair to SL, that is why MA is here now, I believe? That's a step forward (fingers crossed). It's a lot to expect him to cover debt, revamp the ground and etc, etc, then back off completely and leave others to spend his and our dosh.

It's exactly what to expect. He can't be involved in every decision at Hargreaves Lansdown, esp ones about which he has no expertise. eg I doubt he chooses the operating systems on their IT kit, he'd get someone else to do that. If the IT system has a failure, i doubt he's the one to select the company to overhaul it. Similarly he has absolutely no football pedigree at all. He didn't know it existed till his son dragged him along. Yet he chooses the manager - not every time, but then the other blokes choosing the manager are not much good either. Keith "always knew" Cotts was gonna be a winner. Where's Keith when you need his all-knowingness?

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

It's exactly what to expect. He can't be involved in every decision at Hargreaves Lansdown, esp ones about which he has no expertise. eg I doubt he chooses the operating systems on their IT kit, he'd get someone else to do that. If the IT system has a failure, i doubt he's the one to select the company to overhaul it. Similarly he has absolutely no football pedigree at all. He didn't know it existed till his son dragged him along. Yet he chooses the manager - not every time, but then the other blokes choosing the manager are not much good either. Keith "always knew" Cotts was gonna be a winner. Where's Keith when you need his all-knowingness?

SL has 20 years experience on the inside of football now - that is some pedigree. 

Oh, and on another thread somewhere, you said we never see SL et al when we are doing sh1te - this is not true. December 2015 he was interviewed (it's on youtube somewhere) in which said, amongst other things, "we're doing okay" ! And something about expecting us to be "challenging at the other end of the table next season." Might be why he's giving it a miss this winter....

[EnclosureSurge]

1 minute ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL has 20 years experience on the inside of football now - that is some pedigree. 

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

8 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

SL's instinct now, in 2017, has the benefit of 20 years experience from the inside of football, which it didn't before (obviously). It is informed by experience now. It must have something to contribute to this tricky part of running a club

20 years experience and he still consistently drops humungous bollocks.

[Jack Dawe]

12 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

Never mind SL and all that. Go and post something cheerful and nostalgic on the Glyn Riley thread

[NickJ]

14 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

Agree with what you say and what is revealing about that interview is SL spends most of it talking through the various positions and where we need to strengthen and what sort of player we need to strengthen. Without once mentioning the person whose supposedly job that is, the manager.

Massive indicator of the problem and massive indicator of what went wrong in summer 2015 IMO.

[shelts]

Where would we be without the idiot that puts millions into a loss making venture. Thanks Steve  

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Engvall's Splinter said:

Here lies the problem though. The managers Lansdown have appointed (Bar Cotterill) have all been nice, friendly yes men. From Tinnion, Millen, McInnes etc. I can't imagine these guys were very confrontational or would challenge SL. SC would've and must likely rocked the boat too much. I believe we need someone with discipline, respect and experience. Johnson has little to none as a manager. 

Keith Dawe brought Cotterill in.

I really wish that people would remember this. Particularly when discussing Lansdown's managerial appointments.

[42nite]

So, when the job was advertised last (and subrequently given to Lee), Ashton said something along the lines of.....There were some surprising applicants....or something like that.

Do we have any idea who these people might have been?

[RedM]

We just seem to spend our time lurching from one project to the next, tighten our belts, spend, spend, spend, pillars, buying for the future, challenging for the Premier etc. First we want to be like Reading so we bring in Coppell, now we want the next Eddie Howe so we grab LeeJ. Why can't we just be ourselves. I really don't think we know what we want. #MakingBristolLost

[kevster3]

Because the board is a joke, and they are making us a laughing stock

[EnderMB]

13 hours ago, Engvall's Splinter said:

I don't dispute why SC was sacked. Results related ultimately which I agree. The character of Lansdowns appointments are what I'm referring too really. 

With past history, if Johnson was to go, it would most likely end up with Pemberton at the helm for an extended period, Millen returning or another likeable guy rather than one who's likely to drag us out the mire. 

This is because SL and the rest of the board want to do things their way, and to do so they need to hire someone that will do it this way.

The only manager that has been remotely successful, and actually our only manager (not head coach) since the GJ days is Cotterill, and the reason he was successful was because he was allowed to do things his way. He publicly stated that he didn't want to follow the three pillars, and he signed a number of older players alongside the youngsters we had picked up. Funnily enough, it took us from League 1 obscurity to walking the league. The last outspoken manager we had that worked to his own agenda  before Cotts? Gary Johnson.

This is why I don't want us to sack LJ. He's not the problem. The board is the problem. I don't trust our board to hire a capable manager, and until a solid Championship manager with experience in getting a side promoted AND an authoritarian side to them is available I think any change is a panicked one.

[chipdawg]

Hindsight is a marvellous thing, isn't it? And if we'd turned down LJ because of his lack of experience and he was still in charge of a Barnsley who are (I think) 8th, while we were struggling with <insert managers name here>, everyone would be raging because Lansdown hadn't been forward thinking enough

Undoubtedly something is not working with LJ and this football team right now. I'd rather the club keeps its head in the heat and now and trying to improve things (however that is achieved) rather than hand ringing and teeth gnashing about things that people may have said and thought a year ago

[Cowshed]

13 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

And if you read what I put earlier, I specified someone with long, successful football background. In no way does Lansdown's 20 years constitute a success. More than half his 20 years spent in the 3rd division, with all the money he has/he's sanctioned being spent? That's only success in a warped, backward Bristol way. 

And let's not start on what we've said before and raking over that. I think people would 'back me' for saying none of the club come out and say anything when things are like this. It's a fact. That one appearance by Lansdown listen to what he says and you can hear how stupid he is, frankly. "In many ways we've done ok. I think our players now have got the experience of being in the Championship". What, after less than half a season and in the bottom 3? Yes, Steve. He sounds like an infant talking about players - "we need a midfielder and you always need someone to stick it away in the back of the net" - he really should leave well alone. Thanks for the money, thanks for the unselfish help, but please let someone else have final say. His pedigree is poor.

)

Bristol City fans have by and large backed the direction Bristol City has been guided / taken over and merged into Bristol Sport. Mr Lansdown, forget the majority shareholder spiel is in control of everything, and is the that say. The projects any direction is his.

What is your alternative?

[havanatopia]

On 22/01/2017 at 19:02, Jack Dawe said:

So, Steve and Keith's gut instinct, that it might be "too soon" appears to have been correct. Worth listening to. But Lee "convinced" Steve and Keith otherwise, no surprise there, we have all - or many of us - been wowed by Lee's talk, and theory (less so by his practice). Interestingly though, on first meeting the press, on 8 Feb, Lee said:

Have we? I have always found his interviews tedious and full of boring cliches. It actually annoys me when he keeps saying 'like i said' referring to something he has said earlier in the interview and there is me often trying to test my own memory; usually i cannot remember him having said anything the same earlier, or at least rarely. 

Remarkable that SL and KD were wowed by him at interview. I am blown away such experienced business people were. I think if they were thinking 'do we or don't we' and then they made their final decision based on gut instinct it tells us that they may, just may, have made the biggest and most expensive blunder based on a bubbling stomach. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

50 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Have we? I have always found his interviews tedious and full of boring cliches. It actually annoys me when he keeps saying 'like i said' referring to something he has said earlier in the interview and there is me often trying to test my own memory; usually i cannot remember him having said anything the same earlier, or at least rarely. 

Remarkable that SL and KD were wowed by him at interview. I am blown away such experienced business people were. I think if they were thinking 'do we or don't we' and then they made their final decision based on gut instinct it tells us that they may, just may, have made the biggest and most expensive blunder based on a bubbling stomach. 

No, t'other way round.

The OP's point is that Lansdown is on record as saying his gut instinct was telling him it was too early in Johnson's career to appoint him but he was persuaded otherwise by the candidate's gift of the gab (a family trait) at interview.

Whereas a clear-sighted, analytical understanding of:

* City's historic struggles at this level

* The type of manager who historically delivers success at this level (if all the talk of delivering Premiership football is to be taken seriously)

* Johnson's bang average managerial record

would have made it obvious that his gut instinct was correct. 

[EnclosureSurge]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City fans have by and large backed the direction Bristol City has been guided / taken over and merged into Bristol Sport. Mr Lansdown, forget the majority shareholder spiel is in control of everything, and is the that say. The projects any direction is his.

What is your alternative?

Forgive me, Cowshed, I'm just trying to make sure I get your question - what's the alternative to Bristol Sport? Lansdown? The project?

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Forgive me, Cowshed, I'm just trying to make sure I get your question - what's the alternative to Bristol Sport? Lansdown? The project?

And all roads lead to Mr Lansdown.Bristol Sport, BCFC, Bristol City holdings is in effect Mr Lansdown.

What would your alternative be?  Different ownership models? Mr Lansdown acquiescence of control and influence? 

[EnclosureSurge]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

And all roads lead to Mr Lansdown.Bristol Sport, BCFC, Bristol City holdings is in effect Mr Lansdown.

What would your alternative be?  Different ownership models? Mr Lansdown acquiescence of control and influence? 

My alternative is Lansdown leaves us his money and walks away or at least lets an experienced football person do what he's doing (whatever that is, money aside). We don't all have to love Lansdown unconditionally. I certainly don't.

[Cowshed]

Just now, EnclosureSurge said:

My alternative is Lansdown leaves us his money and walks away or at least lets an experienced football person do what he's doing (whatever that is, money aside). We don't all have to love Lansdown unconditionally. I certainly don't.

Mr Lansdown owns the stadium, there are loans of millions (twenty million?) to the FC repayable to Mr Lansdown ... It is hard to identify what us is as fan ownership of shares in all these tentacles is negligible.

There is a real case of fans have made this bed, which is why I asked the question of what the alternatives are.

 

 

[paulcityfan]

2 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

My alternative is Lansdown leaves us his money and walks away or at least lets an experienced football person do what he's doing (whatever that is, money aside). We don't all have to love Lansdown unconditionally. I certainly don't.

Hmm I tend to agree.  I have posted more in the last few days than in months of being on this forum instead of just watching others but because it makes me want to burst now.  I have supported passionately this club for 39 years now.  The serfs cannot speak against the master of the kingdom it seems.  Well back in the day it didn't matter - we just screamed for the team. 

Steve Landsown has manipulated Bristol City FC into a corporate entity (that is Bristol Holdings trading as Bristol Sport) that he owns thus making him even richer in the long term. The club doesn't even own Ashton Gate anymore. £20m-30m whatever it is in the longer term is peanuts investment when you are in his position.  I cannot really take any more of the subservient 'where would we be without SL stuff' .  The cronyism has now exposed the real situation more than ever before to a wider audience.

Believe me we would still be a fantastic club and you cannot crystal ball what else may have occurred