ploppy Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Today showed that we have the ability and talent to dominate a good team away from home. We tore them a new one in the first half. We've also changed a good number of players since December. There were four players on the pitch at the end of the game who weren't here in 2016 in the midst of our losing run (five if you count Taylor who was subbed). We just don't seem to cope with the momentum shifts in games and tend to panic and make error after error. I noticed that Mark Little was very prone to that today but he's not alone. Apparently we employ a sports psychologist but I have absolutely no idea how he's earning his wage - this is one of the mentally weakest teams I've seen for a long time. I'm not sure how you can replicate "game management" on the training field - you can't create a sense of pressure using training different scenarios in training. Teams know (as well as our players I suspect) that if they score one against us it's the equivalent of opening the floodgates. How do you teach a team that crumbles so easily after one conceded goal to be mentally stronger? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, ploppy said: Today showed that we have the ability and talent to dominate a good team away from home. We tore them a new one in the first half. We've also changed a good number of players since December. There were four players on the pitch at the end of the game who weren't here in 2016 in the midst of our losing run (five if you count Taylor who was subbed). We just don't seem to cope with the momentum shifts in games and tend to panic and make error after error. I noticed that Mark Little was very prone to that today but he's not alone. Apparently we employ a sports psychologist but I have absolutely no idea how he's earning his wage - this is one of the mentally weakest teams at a long time. I'm not sure how you can replicate "game management" on the training field - you can't create a sense of pressure using training different scenarios in training. Teams know (as well as our players I suspect) that if they score one against us it's the equivalent of opening the floodgates. How do you teach a team that crumbles so easily after one conceded goal to be mentally stronger? Any ideas? I imagine you'd ordinarily change the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Yes - employ an inspiring, experienced leader who exudes confidence and can show them what to do in different scenarios. Look what's happened to the England rugby team once they employed someone who can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomad Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, ploppy said: Today showed that we have the ability and talent to dominate a good team away from home. We tore them a new one in the first half. We've also changed a good number of players since December. There were four players on the pitch at the end of the game who weren't here in 2016 in the midst of our losing run (five if you count Taylor who was subbed). We just don't seem to cope with the momentum shifts in games and tend to panic and make error after error. I noticed that Mark Little was very prone to that today but he's not alone. Apparently we employ a sports psychologist but I have absolutely no idea how he's earning his wage - this is one of the mentally weakest teams at a long time. I'm not sure how you can replicate "game management" on the training field - you can't create a sense of pressure using training different scenarios in training. Teams know (as well as our players I suspect) that if they score one against us it's the equivalent of opening the floodgates. How do you teach a team that crumbles so easily after one conceded goal to be mentally stronger? Any ideas? I think the answer lies in hypnosis - "you can defend, you will defend", "you can score 4, you will score 4", "you can save shots, you will save shots", "you won't retreat to the 18 yard line, you will press", "you can close wingers down and stop crosses, you will close wingers down and stop crosses", "you have flair, passion and guts, you will play with flair, passion and guts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploppy Posted February 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I do think that we need a more vocal manager from the sidelines. Whenever the tide turns against us ive noticed he tends to simply watch it happen rather than shouting instructions. The team looks a bit lost and he doesn't really do anything to reassure them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 The problem seemed to happen prior to the January transfer window, and after the january transfer window - so what's the common denominator? Is it the players? Nope, therefore it's either down to the coaching they're receiving or the tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, beaverface said: The problem seemed to happen prior to the January transfer window, and after the january transfer window - so what's the common denominator? Is it the players? Nope, therefore it's either down to the coaching they're receiving or the tactics. Probably both, but fitness, or lack of, seems the obvious place to start. For example if Magnusson and Reid are not picked even for the bench, and don't travel, why on a work day for them are they not training but, in Magnusson's case, attending a birthday party. Professional? I think not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, ploppy said: Today showed that we have the ability and talent to dominate a good team away from home. We tore them a new one in the first half. We've also changed a good number of players since December. There were four players on the pitch at the end of the game who weren't here in 2016 in the midst of our losing run (five if you count Taylor who was subbed). We just don't seem to cope with the momentum shifts in games and tend to panic and make error after error. I noticed that Mark Little was very prone to that today but he's not alone. Apparently we employ a sports psychologist but I have absolutely no idea how he's earning his wage - this is one of the mentally weakest teams at a long time. I'm not sure how you can replicate "game management" on the training field - you can't create a sense of pressure using training different scenarios in training. Teams know (as well as our players I suspect) that if they score one against us it's the equivalent of opening the floodgates. How do you teach a team that crumbles so easily after one conceded goal to be mentally stronger? Any ideas? Employ a manager who is capable of coaching and employing a game plan when leading. I wonder how many other teams in professional football threw away a 3 goal lead today? It's unacceptable for a manager/coach who has 5 days a week to work on situations like today, to not be able to implement a plan when needed. Todays result is nothing except a complete failure, we had 3 points from an exceptional first half performance, but threw the game away. 2 points lost, just how valuable could they be at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Whatever it is there's every chance it will eventually drive Tammy around the bend or up the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 The OP is correct, I said this after LJ's record breaking league defeat, they say that a team mimics what it's manager was like as a player and City are weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 32 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: I imagine you'd ordinarily change the manager. I think this is a cheap line and doesn't actually address the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Employ a manager who is capable of coaching and employing a game plan when leading. I wonder how many other teams in professional football threw away a 3 goal lead today? It's unacceptable for a manager/coach who has 5 days a week to work on situations like today, to not be able to implement a plan when needed. Todays result is nothing except a complete failure, we had 3 points from an exceptional first half performance, but threw the game away. 2 points lost, just how valuable could they be at the end of the season. Well Derby were 3-0 down with a former England manager so does that mean LJ is as good as him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Employ a manager who is capable of coaching and employing a game plan when leading. I wonder how many other teams in professional football threw away a 3 goal lead today? It's unacceptable for a manager/coach who has 5 days a week to work on situations like today, to not be able to implement a plan when needed. Todays result is nothing except a complete failure, we had 3 points from an exceptional first half performance, but threw the game away. 2 points lost, just how valuable could they be at the end of the season. So what mistake did Johnson make in the 2nd half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Surely he realises that we are crap at defending a lead ( Sheffield Weds,Wolves,Reading,Cardiff) and perhaps it would be better to look for further goals until such time as the team has confidence and the mental strength to play in a more defensive manner. Seems wring to me to take both forwards off when they both have goals in them . If he (SL) must persist with LJ then get an experienced head that he respects along side him . Maybe his Dad ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 minute ago, mozo said: I think this is a cheap line and doesn't actually address the question. of course it answers the question. For over 4 months months now home and away going into the final quarter of games, we surrender the middle third of the pitch with usually inevitable consequences and it happened again today from a 3-0 winning position. So the question can only be why?, is it a tactic? or is it the players on their own initiative?. And then the next question is why hasn't it been eradicated in over 4 months?, whilst our old mate Warnock has managed it in the same time frame with far less resources? and coming in blind. We know we cannot sack the team so @Fordy62 was correct surely you change the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 It is psychological and a good manager works on that with his players.....but we see the same week in and week out so what does that tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Garlandinho Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 If we do have a sports psychologist he needs sacking along with the manager. I personally put these collapses down to the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, mozo said: So what mistake did Johnson make in the 2nd half? Not resigning on a high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, mozo said: So what mistake did Johnson make in the 2nd half? From my Derby supporting friend who was there... "couldn't believe it when you took Taylor off, his movement was causing us all sorts of problems, after he went off your lot offered nothing up front and just sat deeper & deeper"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonRobin Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, old_eastender said: From my Derby supporting friend who was there... "couldn't believe it when you took Taylor off, his movement was causing us all sorts of problems, after he went off your lot offered nothing up front and just sat deeper & deeper"... Part of this is great to read - Taylor could be a really good addition to the squad. His movement in the last two games have helped us create lots of opportunities...if we can find a way to squeeze Tomlin in the team with him and Tammy then I think we'll create lots. Taylor creates the space for Tammy to run in to and is then found by Tomlin. The real concerning point is that we are making the same mistakes time and again...after conceding leads recently to Reading and Cardiff by sitting back and inviting pressure we have done it again. We have to be more progressive and stop teams from attacking in vast numbers...that can only happen if we don't take all of our attacking threats off! But if we are going to sit back then we have to apply much more pressure on the ball and close down the opponents and stop the balls being either threaded through or simple crosses coming in to the box. Our team is so used to conceding now that when we sit back I think they expect to concede otherwise they'd be throwing themselves in front of crosses or shots...I just don't see that enough. Perhaps that is part of the mindset the OP talks about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, mozo said: Well Derby were 3-0 down with a former England manager so does that mean LJ is as good as him? No. One manager was clever enough tactically to completely change his game plan when he had to, the other wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 If you got leaders on and off the pitch you don't have to worry about shrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: of course it answers the question. For over 4 months months now home and away going into the final quarter of games, we surrender the middle third of the pitch with usually inevitable consequences and it happened again today from a 3-0 winning position. So the question can only be why?, is it a tactic? or is it the players on their own initiative?. And then the next question is why hasn't it been eradicated in over 4 months?, whilst our old mate Warnock has managed it in the same time frame with far less resources? and coming in blind. We know we cannot sack the team so @Fordy62 was correct surely you change the manager. LJ 'has' sacked half the team over the season E's, and bought nearly another one in. It's no coincidence that the same thing keeps happening though. So, as you say, it all comes back to the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, mozo said: So what mistake did Johnson make in the 2nd half? It's not just the 2nd half though is it. He has 5 days a week ( 6 if needed) to work with the team on a game plan to protect a lead. The good managers come up with game plans to protect a 1-0 lead, he hasn't got one to protect a 3 goal lead. Cardiff,Reading and now Derby, how many warnings did he need before today? Ps, I wasn't at the game so haven't watched the second half, but I, like you and everyone else, knew we would not win that game when 3-0 up, that's the scary thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Said this in another thread but I think it's confidence not psychological ( crap run and not defending leads in other games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes7 Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 I listened to his post match interview, he said we were dropping too deep so brought on Milan, failed to mention he took off 2 strikers, in sorry he's just clueless all the hard work of first half is undone, what does he work on in the week like someone else said because it can't be on stopping dropping deep, it's pretty said that even 3-0 we can't see out a game, one other thing that really winds me up, when we defend a corner he never leaves anyone up field so what happens the ball gets cleared and then comes straight back at us, in all my time watching football teams always leave one player upfield except for it seems Johnsons team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 It's clear where the problem is, at least 16 points lost within the final third of games, we don't have a working game management plan, how long does it take to implement one FFS. Warnock has managed it in double quick time. October 18: Queens Park Rangers (a) Lost in the last quarter. 22: Blackburn Rovers (h) 29: Barnsley (a) Dropped 2 points last minute. November 5: Brighton (h) 19: Birmingham City (a) Lost in the last quarter. 26: Reading (a) December 3: Ipswich Town (h) 10: Huddersfield Town (a) 13: Brentford (h) Lost in last quarter. 17: Preston North End (h) Lost 5 minutes from end. 26: Wolverhampton Wanderers (a) Lost 5 minutes from end. 31: Ipswich Town (a) Lost 4 minutes from the end. January 2: Reading (h) Lost from a 2 goal lead conceding 2 goals in the final 6 minutes. 14: Cardiff City (h) Lost after leading twice and conceding 2 goals in the final 6 minutes. 21: Nottingham Forest (a) Lost in the last quarter. 31: Sheffield Wednesday (h) February 4: Rotherham United (h) 11: Derby County (a) Lost a 3 goal lead and conceded 2 of the 3 goals in the final quarter of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAGa Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Fordy62 said: I imagine you'd ordinarily change the manager. Yeah, because it's worked every other time we've replaced past managers... Oh wait, only one time, but the club didn't back him in the transfer market and we sacked him after his first bad run. LJ sets us up well more often than not, players just usually lose composure after conceding one goal. Look at our GD, that's a big clue. Certainly not a manager out of his depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, JHAGa said: Yeah, because it's worked every other time we've replaced past managers... Oh wait, only one time, but the club didn't back him in the transfer market and we sacked him after his first bad run. LJ sets us up well more often than not, players just usually lose composure after conceding one goal. Look at our GD, that's a big clue. Certainly not a manager out of his depth. i'm sorry the above stats tell a different story, he has not successfully implemented a game management plan in over 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, redapple said: Surely he realises that we are crap at defending a lead ( Sheffield Weds,Wolves,Reading,Cardiff) and perhaps it would be better to look for further goals until such time as the team has confidence and the mental strength to play in a more defensive manner. Seems wring to me to take both forwards off when they both have goals in them . If he (SL) must persist with LJ then get an experienced head that he respects along side him . Maybe his Dad ? …and Uncle Pete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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