1bristolcity Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: I'm pleased so many of you are able to lay the blame at SL when there actually a board of directors (including a chairman) who are equally responsible. Why aren't they to blame as well? Because the buck stops with him, he is the maestro that decides on everything including appointing the first team coach. He I am afraid falls way short of understanding all things football, I have felt this for some time and is a view I am sure that is shared by the majority of City fans. He has given us a stadium that is now fit for purpose, not my ideal, but suits many. What we were crying out for was an experienced coach that knows football root and branch, of course those that could do a job here, that wanted to come but were overlooked by that old millstone that we have to endure, petty rivalry, old scores, and of course anything to do with Rovers, or anything else that has an Ancient Grudge imposed. Recruitment of successive managers has been a disaster, apart from a period with SC, not since GJ have we had anything that resembles a real coach that could manage selection and first team affairs in a proper footballing manner. I think LJ has a future, but this appointment came to him a bit too early in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: I think of it like a massive jigsaw. 2 or 3 years ago we just had the picture on the box. Now we've got a few corners and a little bit in the middle and can actually see what it might be when we're finished. TLDR - be careful what you wish for because for every Lansdown, who tries his best to do the right thing and sometimes gets it wrong, there's a Tan or an Allam who will gladly rip the soul from your club and change the colour of the shirt on your back for a few quid. I'd argue the the picture on the box was revealed a lot longer than 2 or 3 years ago. I recall SL describing the new stadium at a Q&A in a pub in London in the play-off season...which is what, 9 years ago? I think he outlined more or less all of the off the pitch developments we've seen recently. It's great that progress has been made off the pitch...but on the pitch? 9 years later? He's not delivered. The world of football has moved on, as have other clubs we'd have looked down on then. Making that observation is not the same as wishing him away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: TLDR - be careful what you wish for because for every Lansdown, who tries his best to do the right thing and sometimes gets it wrong, there's a Tan or an Allam who will gladly rip the soul from your club and change the colour of the shirt on your back for a few quid. I don't think there will be too many who disagree with what you say here. Its more down to do you genuinely believe he knows what he is doing regarding Football? I love the stadium and the financial security but lets be honest the gate isn't just about BCFC anymore is it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingswood red Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he should be immune from criticism. He's made mistakes over the years just like every other manager or chairman in football history. But theres a real case of 'be careful what you wish for'. It would be the most 'Bristol City' thing ever to hound out an English chairman who genuinely loves the club and wants it to succeed and welcome in some Qatari banker who talks the talk. Fans and managers of clubs up and down the land constantly point to Lansdown as a real asset and something to be grateful for - they can't all be wrong can they? Whilst I appreciate the point that without on pitch success, the off pitch stuff is irrelevant, it's very much a chicken and egg situation. How many clubs have actually genuinely achieved sustainable success with their off pitch affairs in a shambles? Would Brighton finally be reaping the rewards they are now if it weren't for their continued persistence with sorting out the off pitch affairs? It's taken several years for their labour to bear fruit and it wasn't without its share of struggle. It's easy to look at other teams as having an easy ride to success but it's rare. I think of it like a massive jigsaw. 2 or 3 years ago we just had the picture on the box. Now we've got a few corners and a little bit in the middle and can actually see what it might be when we're finished. Contrary to recent results there are signs of improvement on the pitch when taking a long term view. The Kodjia situation is one sign, the signing of Tomlin and Tammy another. Compare that to the sort of business we did last time we were fighting for championship survival (no not last season, the time before that!!) TLDR - be careful what you wish for because for every Lansdown, who tries his best to do the right thing and sometimes gets it wrong, there's a Tan or an Allam who will gladly rip the soul from your club and change the colour of the shirt on your back for a few quid. I agree with most of that but, if you use Brighton as an example, it's worth bearing in mind that they appointed a well proven manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Red Exile said: I'd argue the the picture on the box was revealed a lot longer than 2 or 3 years ago. I recall SL describing the new stadium at a Q&A in a pub in London in the play-off season...which is what, 9 years ago? I think he outlined more or less all of the off the pitch developments we've seen recently. It's great that progress has been made off the pitch...but on the pitch? 9 years later? He's not delivered. The world of football has moved on, as have other clubs we'd have looked down on then. Making that observation is not the same as wishing him away... Yeah fair point. And like I said I'm not suggesting he should be immune from criticism as he has to be judged on his decisions. But I still don't like the 'what's he ever done for us' rhetoric that comes out when we're not doing well on the pitch. Can you imagine reading those comments if you're him after what you've personally put into the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, kingswood red said: I agree with most of that but, if you use Brighton as an example, it's worth bearing in mind that they appointed a well proven manager. They did, and crucially stuck with him when he didn't achieve a miracle at the first time of asking. Not suggesting there's any comparison with our own manager but another victory for stability over the merry-go-round approach of most clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poshtottie Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 I have received an email from a poster on here and apparently the moderators now have a deliberate mandate to merge all threads where LJ is discussed to supress the freedom we have talking about this. Some have complained of the space it takes up on the BB but isn't that the point... these are worry times at this FC... The moderators require rotation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, We live in hope said: I don't think there will be too many who disagree with what you say here. Its more down to do you genuinely believe he knows what he is doing regarding Football? I love the stadium and the financial security but lets be honest the gate isn't just about BCFC anymore is it! I think the footballing decisions being taken now are a lot better than they were. Ashton's influence perhaps? I just think it's easy to lose sight of it with how this seasons panned out Put simply there's no way on earth we'd have got the likes of Tomlin and Tammy here a few years ago. Ok Tomlin hasn't worked out thus far but rewind a few years and we were getting Nicky Hunt and John Akinde! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 A few points:- 1. Why do people think misguidedly that the alternative to SL is Armageddon.? This simply isn't the case 2. The Board is a complete sham. It is there because legally it has to be but there is little evidence it functions as a true Board should. 3. The business plan of BS is clearly failing as regards what happens on the pitch 4. Some of us believe that the identity of City will gradually be submerged into BS 5. The appointment of LJ, and the extension to his contract, can in the opinion of some of us only be explained by non football reasons 6. As regards the revamp of Ashton Gate rather than the brand new stadium promised is that problems of parking and access by public transport have not been, or can't be addressed. Look at Brighton and Colchester for examples of good planning for example. 7. SL oddly enough is not one of us as old HarrynDolman was. Harry would certainly have taken action over LJ. If he had appointed him in the first place. I remember Well from a few feet away fans would shout at Harry to tell him to get it sorted. He certainly did and got us to the old First Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Yeah fair point. And like I said I'm not suggesting he should be immune from criticism as he has to be judged on his decisions. But I still don't like the 'what's he ever done for us' rhetoric that comes out when we're not doing well on the pitch. Can you imagine reading those comments if you're him after what you've personally put into the club? I'm sure he, and his family, would be offended by some of the rhetoric...and indeed by the title of this thread! But the only reason I've posted anything at all on SL down the years is to try and articulate a notion that the relationship isn't one way...it's not simply him giving and us bowing and receiving with gratitude...or it shouldn't be. That doesn't help anyone, least of all SL to achieve what I believe he wants as much as we do. What's been needed are powerful and critical friends to SL who can help him make the right decisions. Off the pitch the stadium project appears, eventually, to have been well managed by people who know what they are doing. On the pitch it's usually a different story. I feel that supporters don't give themselves enough credit for what they contribute....which apart from their passion and energy is millions of pounds every year, money which represents at least as large a proportion of many disposable incomes as Steve's millions represent to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: A few points:- 1. Why do people think misguidedly that the alternative to SL is Armageddon.? This simply isn't the case True, but how many Bristolian Bristol City fans that are also, conveniently, billionaires do you know of? 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 2. The Board is a complete sham. It is there because legally it has to be but there is little evidence it functions as a true Board should. What do you expect from them? 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 3. The business plan of BS is clearly failing as regards what happens on the pitch Well, depends how you look at it. How long has 'Bristol Sport' been prominent? I think it really came to the fore in the double winning season. Since then, we've won two trophies, progressed a bit further than our median in cups, stayed up in this division and are halfway into our second Championship season. Not too bad really overall. 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 4. Some of us believe that the identity of City will gradually be submerged into BS What does this mean exactly? 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 5. The appointment of LJ, and the extension to his contract, can in the opinion of some of us only be explained by non football reasons That's a reasonable argument to make, but none of us know for sure - just speculation and opinion. 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 6. As regards the revamp of Ashton Gate rather than the brand new stadium promised is that problems of parking and access by public transport have not been, or can't be addressed. Look at Brighton and Colchester for examples of good planning for example. Out of our hands really. Was one of the disadvantages of staying at the AG site. We have to work with what we have as it's still a residential area with basic public transport. 14 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: 7. SL oddly enough is not one of us as old HarrynDolman was. Harry would certainly have taken action over LJ. If he had appointed him in the first place. I remember Well from a few feet away fans would shout at Harry to tell him to get it sorted. He certainly did and got us to the old First Division. Don't really understand this point. It would be a bit weird if SL was shouting 'SORT IT OUT JOHNSON (MIDGET)' don't you think? Nowadays, Chairman have to be more statesmanlike than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: True, but how many Bristolian Bristol City fans that are also, conveniently, billionaires do you know of? What do you expect from them? Well, depends how you look at it. How long has 'Bristol Sport' been prominent? I think it really came to the fore in the double winning season. Since then, we've won two trophies, progressed a bit further than our median in cups, stayed up in this division and are halfway into our second Championship season. Not too bad really overall. What does this mean exactly? That's a reasonable argument to make, but none of us know for sure - just speculation and opinion. Out of our hands really. Was one of the disadvantages of staying at the AG site. We have to work with what we have as it's still a residential area with basic public transport. Don't really understand this point. It would be a bit weird if SL was shouting 'SORT IT OUT JOHNSON (MIDGET)' don't you think? Nowadays, Chairman have to be more statesmanlike than that. Ours isn't. I wouldn't recognise him in a line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Don't really understand this point. It would be a bit weird if SL was shouting 'SORT IT OUT JOHNSON (MIDGET)' don't you think? Nowadays, Chairman have to be more statesmanlike than that. This really did conjure up a funny image ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 SL isn't immune from criticism, I agree with that to a point, however... What qualifies those who are criticising him to make some of the observations? Have they run football club (even at a youth level) and recorded sustained success? Have they been at a senior management level and appointed people to do a job they couldn't do and always got the result they wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: SL isn't immune from criticism, I agree with that to a point, however... What qualifies those who are criticising him to make some of the observations? Have they run football club (even at a youth level) and recorded sustained success? Have they been at a senior management level and appointed people to do a job they couldn't do and always got the result they wanted? If we applied that logic to everything, we wouldn't be able to criticise politicians or people in public office either. I don't think it really matters how 'qualified' people are are aren't, it's just a football forum and people are going to debate and critique everyone involved when we are doing badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted February 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: What qualifies those who are criticising him to make some of the observation I think you call it being a fan for many years and buying club merchandise and paying at the turnstiles and filling the tank up to go watch your team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: If we applied that logic to everything, we wouldn't be able to criticise politicians or people in public office either. I don't think it really matters how 'qualified' people are are aren't, it's just a football forum and people are going to debate and critique everyone involved when we are doing badly. I think though, a lot of people are giving the impression that they think running a successful football club is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: SL isn't immune from criticism, I agree with that to a point, however... What qualifies those who are criticising him to make some of the observations? Have they run football club (even at a youth level) and recorded sustained success? Have they been at a senior management level and appointed people to do a job they couldn't do and always got the result they wanted? Mine are indeed only observations, the observations of someone peering into the opaque world of decision making at BCFC, which let's face it, isn't easy to do. It's not always clear who decides what, and why decisions are made. That's not how the club is run. I've not run a football club at any level. But I have been a senior manager in the entertainment world where I rarely see people appointed to jobs they simply can't do...it's tough to get a chance and there are always more qualified candidates than there are jobs. When people are struggling they're coached to better or they swiftly depart. No sentiment, pretty brutal. But if people fail to get results it's as often because the whole concept is flawed, it's not usually for want of trying. As it happens I don't think the Bristol City project is flawed, but for whatever reason it seems to be hard to appoint people who can deliver on the pitch. SC was a notable exception...the right appointment for the job that needed to be done at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 10 hours ago, RumRed said: I think the thread name was the giveaway to be honest. I thought it was perhaps going to be the OP's St Valentines week declaration of his feelings of love for SL. Love is in the air this week, does he indeed live in hope? ... that's what I thought anyway, call me a hopelessly silly old romantic. if you must.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Don't really understand this point. It would be a bit weird if SL was shouting 'SORT IT OUT JOHNSON (MIDGET)' don't you think? Nowadays, Chairman have to be more statesmanlike than that. Difficult position I guess... what options would a chairman/owner have in a situation like this?... Would tying up and displaying blunt thoughts on anonymous banners around the area be one way? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Thompson Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 How many fans do you think city have?. How many could care what division we are in but it's a nice day out at the stadium.I remember when crowds dipped below 4,000 and very few came forward to help. SL and the Board and the management team need more time to sort this out. Its easy to say sack LJ and the coaches. What then? Pay them millions Sign other manager? Who exactly do you expect to pay for all this.Perhaps the banner boys will buy SL out. In the meantime don't look a gift horse in the mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 I look forward to loads of rich City fans coming in and bailing the club out. Or even foreign investors who are interested. I'm sure there is a long queue...oh wait... I know SL has done things wrong but he keeps the club going and has built a great stadium. Until someone else comes in who is willing to help out etc then I can't see why you would get so excited about getting rid of him. The guy deserves a lot of praise for what he has done - he has at least tried by making funds available to get City towards the Prem etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Rich Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Ivorguy said: 7. SL oddly enough is not one of us as old HarrynDolman was. Harry would certainly have taken action over LJ. If he had appointed him in the first place. I remember Well from a few feet away fans would shout at Harry to tell him to get it sorted. He certainly did and got us to the old First Division. Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't that by sticking with a rookie manager for a significant amount of time? 7-8 years something like that I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 14 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: You've gone totally at a tangent there. Where, in any of my posts have I said there shouldn't be any debate about BS, or to only "blow smoke up their ass"? The OP made a comment having a dig at the fact LJ threads were being merged. Asking why he isn't capable of putting all points about LJ in one thread is perfectly reasonable. By all means debate about SL and BS, but the comment Neo made was valid and you haven't provided anything even close to a hint of a suggestion why it isn't. You've gone totally at a tangent there. Seems like a great way to get around town . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 11 hours ago, Bristol Rob said: I'm pleased so many of you are able to lay the blame at SL when there actually a board of directors (including a chairman) who are equally responsible. Why aren't they to blame as well? They're his appointments, like everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 10 hours ago, kingswood red said: I agree with most of that but, if you use Brighton as an example, it's worth bearing in mind that they appointed a well proven manager. Brighton & Hove Albion are the perfect example of what I thought our 'project' was going to look like when we were first told about it about 10 years or so ago. look at the increase in attendance, the real pickle they were in not too long ago, an example of how to go about things the right way. Heavy investment for sure but it's got them somewhere, I for one hope they win this league. Good club, run properly on, and off, the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, RumRed said: Brighton & Hove Albion are the perfect example of what I thought our 'project' was going to look like when we were first told about it about 10 years or so ago. look at the increase in attendance, the real pickle they were in not too long ago, an example of how to go about things the right way. Heavy investment for sure but it's got them somewhere, I for one hope they win this league. Good club, run properly on, and off, the pitch. They`ve made a few mistakes along the way (Hyppia) - not as many as us though. Interestingly I`ve just seen on Wiki that Paul Trollope is the assistant manager down there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: They`ve made a few mistakes along the way (Hyppia) - not as many as us though. Interestingly I`ve just seen on Wiki that Paul Trollope is the assistant manager down there now. Hyppia was a shocker! They seem to be achieving stuff in the 'right' way though compared to the state they were in. The AMEX has been massive for them, I like old school grounds myself but the way that they organise the special train services from the centre on match day (Brighton station is rammed when a night match is on but they pretty much have their own platform there) is pretty impressive, also direct link off the main coast road. good luck to them I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jars Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 I reckon that SL should appoint Mark McGhee as manager ex City and International experience with Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Til the day we get a doctors degree in football.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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