Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 4-5-1/4-3-3 hybrid. We can look again at replacing some next season or adding depth but until then how about: Giefer Little Wright Magnusson Bryan Brownhill O'Neil Smith Cotterill Djuric O'Dowda Now I know it doesn't have Tammy but we don't know when he will be back. Djuric is like Wilbraham stylistically- but much younger! Dunno how many full games in a demanding role Wilbs can play at his age at this level, despite how he played Saturday. Dropping Flint- hero for us, that great season- but maybe take him out the firing line. I think Hordur and Wright could work rather well, a good combination of stopper and ball player. Midfield- looks quite well balanced to me, Hegeler, Reid and Pack are more than decent options as backup but those who know the division best at this time. There are good range of options in that midfield though. I think this would suit us quite well but the one small problem is that Tammy as a lone striker in this format- unsure he would be all that good. Shame really as I think 4-3-3 could suit us really quite well, but you gotta fit him in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 If you look at our personnel, our weaknesses are: both full backs are shit at defending our centre halves struggle to cope with the better forwards in the division we haven't managed to use width to any real effect all season Because of this I'd play 532/352 - and you won't hear me say that often. ---------------------------Giefer---------------------------- -----------Wright--------Flint-----Magnusson---------- -Cotterill-----O'Neill---Smith---Hegeler---------Bryan- --------------------Tomlin-------Abraham------------------ Right now with confidence low and Tammy injured, Djuric and Taylor up front is probably a better bet. Maybe with Tomlin in the midfield at home - it's ridiculous that a player of his quality is left out. I think that team is strong in the middle, gets rid of the weak full backs and can probably keep a lot of possession. You could play Brownhill in the middle over Smith if he doesn't find his form. It also gives us a bit more margin for (inevitable) error in the back line with a left footer to the left of Flint and Wright on his right foot. I'd hope that meant less hoofing. All else aside though, what's far more important than formation and selection is that whatever ones are chosen, we don't ******* change them every game and every 30 minutes during a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'm not wedded to formations, more play what's in front of you and play to your strengths. Faffing around probably confuses the shit out of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 12 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: Well we had Bobby who is forward thinking. It was nice to see Korey get up the pitch as I think it suits him to play around the box with his good close control and eye for a short pass. O'Dowda and Cotterill make it work so much better as they sprint forward and back. I still have nightmares about Cardiff away where Korey and GON just sat next to each other and it caused Tomlin to drop deep as they didn't look forward and it isolated Tammy badly. Was refreshing to see Korey got the instruction to go forward. Funnily enough, it was shown as 4-1-4-1 which is the second time I remember it and we've played well both times. The other the first 70 min against Reading. Both times though we've conceded possession and we tired badly though. It's a formation i wouldn't mind seeing more of, especially with Tammy out. It requires two mobile and plucky midfielders though. Korey and Bobby were that. Joe and Josh I think could both play that as well. Leaving Pack, Hegeler and GON to play the holding role. We've got the midfielders for it. We've got two brilliant target man types we can utilise and with Cotterill on the right and O'Dowda on the left we get wingers who help going forward and defending. Just have to know when to make the substitutions. Spot on, Joe. LJ just needs to realise the difference between defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders and wingers and we actually have the men for the job. I remember that Cardiff nightmare - and others like it. Tomlin is another character who if you're not playing him in an advanced role, is totally wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 It's not unacceptable to change formation for certain games. I agree we need a best formation / lineup but 4-5-1 was surely wiser than 4-4-2 away to the league leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 9 hours ago, Nibor said: If you look at our personnel, our weaknesses are: both full backs are shit at defending our centre halves struggle to cope with the better forwards in the division we haven't managed to use width to any real effect all season Because of this I'd play 532/352 - and you won't hear me say that often. ---------------------------Giefer---------------------------- -----------Wright--------Flint-----Magnusson---------- -Cotterill-----O'Neill---Smith---Hegeler---------Bryan- --------------------Tomlin-------Abraham------------------ Right now with confidence low and Tammy injured, Djuric and Taylor up front is probably a better bet. Maybe with Tomlin in the midfield at home - it's ridiculous that a player of his quality is left out. I think that team is strong in the middle, gets rid of the weak full backs and can probably keep a lot of possession. You could play Brownhill in the middle over Smith if he doesn't find his form. It also gives us a bit more margin for (inevitable) error in the back line with a left footer to the left of Flint and Wright on his right foot. I'd hope that meant less hoofing. All else aside though, what's far more important than formation and selection is that whatever ones are chosen, we don't ******* change them every game and every 30 minutes during a game. Every time I've seen us play 3-5-2 in the championship, even under Cotterill, the wing back gets exposed with 2 on 1. The opposition then gets crosses in and score a number of goals. I don't think our wing backs are good enough and I am not sure our centre halves are quick enough to help out there. Saw it at Newcastle when Magnusson come on. We saw the game out but poor Callum was on his own against Ritchie and Yedlin time and time again. I don't think it's a great formation for this league. It leaves you outnumbered against wingers which is probably the deepest and most talented position in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 17 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: That tactic didn't really work for Cotterill, did it? I have no problem Lee's frequent formation changes - you see it all the time in the PL. Thinking players are more flexible position-wise than they are gives me more cause for concern. I often think that Johnson has little grasp on players' strengths and weaknesses. I think a problem Coach's and managers have, that we don't, is that they see the players every day in training. They see the players progression, what they can do without the match day pressure on. When they see this...they give a player a chance. We've seen it a couple times recently. LJ mentioned that Matthews had worked hard in training to get his fitness back again. That O'dowda was amazing in training, but a 'bit of a rabbit' in headlights when it came to match day. What they do in training, can obviously effect what a Coach thinks when choosing his match day squad. If you were to purely judge players on what they have done over 90 mins on match day, and not see what goes on in training, then the likelihood is that you would never choose to play them again. Matthews for example...must be bloody amazing in training...because match day's he's been worse than useless on most occasions. The same goes for players on match day...Magners has been tremendous for us...we question why he was dropped etc. Then the whole coaching staff will analyse the opposition stats, and footage and scout reports...we don't see that either...so it often baffles us why certain players have been chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: Every time I've seen us play 3-5-2 in the championship, even under Cotterill, the wing back gets exposed with 2 on 1. The opposition then gets crosses in and score a number of goals. I don't think our wing backs are good enough and I am not sure our centre halves are quick enough to help out there. Saw it at Newcastle when Magnusson come on. We saw the game out but poor Callum was on his own against Ritchie and Yedlin time and time again. I don't think it's a great formation for this league. It leaves you outnumbered against wingers which is probably the deepest and most talented position in the league. I don't like it much but it is hard to imagine we could concede more goals from play on the wing than we are currently with the two worst defending full backs I can remember seeing in a City shirt and I've been watching since the 80s. I don't like this as a formation generally but it is the only way with the current squad we can get the better players into the XI and leave the likes of Golbourne, Little, Vyner and Matthews out and that has to be the priority. How we got through January without signing a full back is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, spudski said: I think a problem Coach's and managers have, that we don't, is that they see the players every day in training. They see the players progression, what they can do without the match day pressure on. When they see this...they give a player a chance. We've seen it a couple times recently. LJ mentioned that Matthews had worked hard in training to get his fitness back again. That O'dowda was amazing in training, but a 'bit of a rabbit' in headlights when it came to match day. What they do in training, can obviously effect what a Coach thinks when choosing his match day squad. If you were to purely judge players on what they have done over 90 mins on match day, and not see what goes on in training, then the likelihood is that you would never choose to play them again. Matthews for example...must be bloody amazing in training...because match day's he's been worse than useless on most occasions. The same goes for players on match day...Magners has been tremendous for us...we question why he was dropped etc. Then the whole coaching staff will analyse the opposition stats, and footage and scout reports...we don't see that either...so it often baffles us why certain players have been chosen. Quite right, Spud. Playing Wilbs as a lone striker looked like madness to me before the Newcastle game. But I have to give it to Johnson, he must have seen enough to know the old campaigner was ready to put in a bloody good shift. We do have to trust coaches and managers over such matters. At the same time, we don't want players who "train well" but lose it in the spotlight of the real deal being selected: the sad case of a certain Mr L Fontaine springs to mind there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 10 hours ago, Nibor said: If you look at our personnel, our weaknesses are: both full backs are shit at defending our centre halves struggle to cope with the better forwards in the division we haven't managed to use width to any real effect all season Because of this I'd play 532/352 - and you won't hear me say that often. ---------------------------Giefer---------------------------- -----------Wright--------Flint-----Magnusson---------- -Cotterill-----O'Neill---Smith---Hegeler---------Bryan- --------------------Tomlin-------Abraham------------------ Right now with confidence low and Tammy injured, Djuric and Taylor up front is probably a better bet. Maybe with Tomlin in the midfield at home - it's ridiculous that a player of his quality is left out. I think that team is strong in the middle, gets rid of the weak full backs and can probably keep a lot of possession. You could play Brownhill in the middle over Smith if he doesn't find his form. It also gives us a bit more margin for (inevitable) error in the back line with a left footer to the left of Flint and Wright on his right foot. I'd hope that meant less hoofing. All else aside though, what's far more important than formation and selection is that whatever ones are chosen, we don't ******* change them every game and every 30 minutes during a game. I like that setup, also think Bryan as a wingback would be more productive than as a left back with potential for growth too. Only snag I can see is that under Cotts it didn't quite work out with a 3-5-2- though we had some good games but overall it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 34 minutes ago, Nibor said: I don't like it much but it is hard to imagine we could concede more goals from play on the wing than we are currently with the two worst defending full backs I can remember seeing in a City shirt and I've been watching since the 80s. I don't like this as a formation generally but it is the only way with the current squad we can get the better players into the XI and leave the likes of Golbourne, Little, Vyner and Matthews out and that has to be the priority. How we got through January without signing a full back is beyond me. That I can't argue with. Maybe if it was a 5-4-1 but many would go mental at that. Formations are silly though. You can be attacking in any formation just have to be willing to commit those bodies forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Quite right, Spud. Playing Wilbs as a lone striker looked like madness to me before the Newcastle game. But I have to give it to Johnson, he must have seen enough to know the old campaigner was ready to put in a bloody good shift. We do have to trust coaches and managers over such matters. At the same time, we don't want players who "train well" but lose it in the spotlight of the real deal being selected: the sad case of a certain Mr L Fontaine springs to mind there. Wasn't there on Saturday. The formation said 4141, my question is did Wilbs get isolated? I suspect not, in that Reid and Smith tried to get around him. The very brief stacking highlights indicate he wasn't a lonesome attacker. What are others views who were there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 hours ago, Davefevs said: Wasn't there on Saturday. The formation said 4141, my question is did Wilbs get isolated? I suspect not, in that Reid and Smith tried to get around him. The very brief stacking highlights indicate he wasn't a lonesome attacker. What are others views who were there? Yeh it was either Reid, Smith or O'Neil who joined the attack. But no matter what either Smith or O'Neil sat in if the other had joined the attack. Both very disciplined. I also liked the fact who ever it was from midfield in the attack, O'Neil/ Smith/ Reid, they all worked their arse off to get back in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, ForeverRes said: Yeh it was either Reid, Smith or O'Neil who joined the attack. But no matter what either Smith or O'Neil sat in if the other had joined the attack. Both very disciplined. I also liked the fact who ever it was from midfield in the attack, O'Neil/ Smith/ Reid, they all worked their arse off to get back in ! Thanks, shows what a bit of desire to join up and discipline for one to stay home can achieve. How many on here have said get rid of Korey in the summer. We jump to conclusions / opinions far too easily. The bloke played 1/3 of last season with a ankle injury and went through the pain barrier for us...gradually his performances got dragged down. He had his op, but had struggled to get fully fit, further affecting his oerformance. By the same token I'm not gonna jump in and say "Korey is back", but he deserves the rest of this season and a proper pre-season to get back and warm us with his energy and passion next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Thanks, shows what a bit of desire to join up and discipline for one to stay home can achieve. How many on here have said get rid of Korey in the summer. We jump to conclusions / opinions far too easily. The bloke played 1/3 of last season with a ankle injury and went through the pain barrier for us...gradually his performances got dragged down. He had his op, but had struggled to get fully fit, further affecting his oerformance. By the same token I'm not gonna jump in and say "Korey is back", but he deserves the rest of this season and a proper pre-season to get back and warm us with his energy and passion next season. Well said If he can get back to his best - right up there as one of the very best in our squad IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 36 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Well said If he can get back to his best - right up there as one of the very best in our squad IMHO Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 If he could regain fitness and towards his best - Would also be My skipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: If he could regain fitness and towards his best - Would also be My skipper His absence has been notable; delighted he's back, and think getting as many minutes out of him as we can over the next 13 games could be vital for our survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Nibor said: I don't like it much but it is hard to imagine we could concede more goals from play on the wing than we are currently with the two worst defending full backs I can remember seeing in a City shirt and I've been watching since the 80s. I don't like this as a formation generally but it is the only way with the current squad we can get the better players into the XI and leave the likes of Golbourne, Little, Vyner and Matthews out and that has to be the priority. How we got through January without signing a full back is beyond me. Have you got a selective memory? Nicky Hunt, Brian Mitchell, Marvin Harriott are better than Mark Little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 9 hours ago, cidered abroad said: Have you got a selective memory? Nicky Hunt, Brian Mitchell, Marvin Harriott are better than Mark Little? No, but I'm talking about the two of them at the same time and defending only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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