In All Honesty

[1bristolcity]

26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And.....another cynic would say that with Juniors dad recovering in hospital City put on the best performance of the season so far..........

That's a tad cynical, and is it so bad you cannot call them by there names, Johnson, his Dad is having heart problems, he has to be concerned, nothing to do with matters on the pitch.

[GrahamC]

34 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And.....another cynic would say that with Juniors dad recovering in hospital City put on the best performance of the season so far..........

Either that or a complete idiot.

Please be upstanding for the Mayor of Simpleton..

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Either that or a complete idiot.

Please be upstanding for the Mayor of Simpleton..

Or a true cynic.

[Aizoon]

8 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

We have all seen the rumours, we all read the conspiracy theories and the apparent posts from insiders telling us how split this dressing room is and many of us have chosen to believe them.

In a thread last week I was asked to defend my position in saying that I felt that this was either untrue or exaggerated to undermine the Manager, I said that the only thing I had to go on was the performances on the pitch. I have seen teams in the past that were not trying, not interested or genuinely disillusioned with the Management and it is not a pretty sight, but for all our failings recently, I hadn't seen that this season.

My question to those who think that there is disunity in this squad, honestly, can you really sit there, hand on heart and tell us that last night was the performance of a team that wasn't behind their Manager and committed to the cause?

Two questions there. Commited - yes. Behind manager - maybe...

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Or a true cynic.

So are you seriously suggesting that the players gave their best display of the season last night because the head coach's father has had a heart issue?

Like so much you post this is so incredibly simplistic, but having read the nonsense that you believed at the Senior Reds meeting the other day about "bad luck" and "karma" being the reason that we went into the 38th game of the season in 22nd place last night, perhaps on reflection it is no surprise..

Fancy selling me your cow for these 5 magic beans?

[Jack Dawe]

44 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I think that is far more a case of him actually being pretty stupid, (even by average footballer standards) than anything else.

Seven intelligence "modalities" Graham:

 

Musical-rhythmic-harmonic  (see Section 82)

Visual-spatial (Tammy still developing this....)

Verbal-linguistic (Lee Johnson?)

Logical-mathematical (SL?)

Bodily-kinesthetic (Lee Tomlin?)

Interpersonal (this is what the fairer sex do, tbf)

Intrapersonal (not sure?)

Naturalistic (wtf? No idea)

 

It goes without saying, Logical-mathematical is not my "skill-set"

[grove park city]

8 hours ago, Up The City! said:

 

I've never been overly concerned about relegation because I saw a team that's trying, a team playing for their manager and believed at some point the performances we were putting in we would be rewarded for.

We are not out of it yet but as I said weeks ago I believe we will survive comfortably.

 

Glad to be proved wrong fantastic performance.

[TRL]

9 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

We have all seen the rumours, we all read the conspiracy theories and the apparent posts from insiders telling us how split this dressing room is and many of us have chosen to believe them.

In a thread last week I was asked to defend my position in saying that I felt that this was either untrue or exaggerated to undermine the Manager, I said that the only thing I had to go on was the performances on the pitch. I have seen teams in the past that were not trying, not interested or genuinely disillusioned with the Management and it is not a pretty sight, but for all our failings recently, I hadn't seen that this season.

My question to those who think that there is disunity in this squad, honestly, can you really sit there, hand on heart and tell us that last night was the performance of a team that wasn't behind their Manager and committed to the cause?

Well going on Bryan's comments potentially yes. If those cracks have healed after the realisation of being in the bottom 3 has hit home great.

 

But there are undertones of something not right. One good game has to be followed up by more good games, then we will see.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

So are you seriously suggesting that the players gave their best display of the season last night because the head coach's father has had a heart issue?

Like so much you post this is so incredibly simplistic, but having read the nonsense that you believed at the Senior Reds meeting the other day about "bad luck" and "karma" being the reason that we went into the 38th game of the season in 22nd place last night, 

Nothing to do with GJ being in hospital with a heart problem but a cynic would say that because of GJ influence on Juniors thinking, his absence - for whatever reason - coincided with the best performance and win of the season.

Not even you Graham can dispute that City for large periods of the season had bugger all go their way. Refereeing mistakes, which have been acknowledged by the referee association and losing so many games by the odd goal. Unlike Huddersfield, City have not been on the end of a 4-0 drubbing all season.

At Wigan the luck began to change and last night everything went City's way including their CB missing through illness and Hogg getting stretchered off. Add to that a dodgy penalty award in our favour an we benefitted greatly by those changes in fortune.

Now I call very significant change karma and got told by some smart arse that's not the proper use of the word karma........

[Monkeh]

16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Nothing to do with GJ being in hospital with a heart problem but a cynic would say that because of GJ influence on Juniors thinking, his absence - for whatever reason - coincided with the best performance and win of the season.

Not even you Graham can dispute that City for large periods of the season had bugger all go their way. Refereeing mistakes, which have been acknowledged by the referee association and losing so many games by the odd goal. Unlike Huddersfield, City have not been on the end of a 4-0 drubbing all season.

At Wigan the luck began to change and last night everything went City's way including their CB missing through illness and Hogg getting stretchered off. Add to that a dodgy penalty award in our favour an we benefitted greatly by those changes in fortune.

Now I call very significant change karma and got told by some smart arse that's not the proper use of the word karma........

You talk so much shit and your hatred of Johnson just goes to new lengths,

 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

You talk so much shit and your hatred of Johnson just goes to new lengths,

 

Z z z z z z z z z z z 

Thankfully, Ive never "hated" anyone mate.

[RedEyez]

I might be thinking into this abit much but does anyone else think that a few players played out of their skins to put themselves in the shop window due to being live on sky? 

[Tom Fleuriot]

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

I

Everyone with half a brain will be eternally grateful to the owner for his investment, that is not the point. I would like nothing better for City to get to the Premier League but I think we can do it better, faster and more sustainably without Lee Johnson. And I think the only way people will accept him after this season's debacle is for him to get us promoted next year. Nothing less will now be acceptable; and he has created that discord. 

I would have thought a strong end to the season and strong mid table (pushing for playoffs) next season will be enough for City fans to stop clamoring for his head,  as long as he builds on it the following season. But he certainly needs more than a 4-0 win in front of the Sky cameras. 

[RumRed]

9 minutes ago, LeeTomlin10 said:

I might be thinking into this abit much but does anyone else think that a few players played out of their skins to put themselves in the shop window due to being live on sky? 

I had the same thought last night, however this is the Chamionship with scouts at every game.  I'm sure with our losing streak, and the still real threat of relegation, clubs will be keeping a watchful eye on our squad and not just because we're on the telly.

[RedEyez]

6 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I had the same thought last night, however this is the Chamionship with scouts at every game.  I'm sure with our losing streak, and the still real threat of relegation, clubs will be keeping a watchful eye on our squad and not just because we're on the telly.

I recorded the game at home and watched it when i got back from the gate. It was Tomlins celebration that triggered the thought, pointing at his name on the back of his shirt almost like a "come and get me" plea . 

Hopefully im wrong and it was just generic Tomlin arrogance!! 

[MarcusX]

I said it a while ago in the midst of the bad run, and I've said it since. COnfidence is a massive thing, and something you just cannot understand unless you've played the game at a level that matters (its the same in park football / sunday football to an extent but people just dont care as much about the results)

When you are on a run like we were it is so difficult to drag yourself out of it. You need that bit of luck, a game to go your way that you win or draw when you probably didnt deserve to and it can be enough to give you a boost.

Last night showed a team that are all playing for each other, and with a new found confidence it seemed. Maybe it was the released pressure of a "nothing" game, as in no one expected anything but a drubbing last night.

I believe these last few games is the turning of the corner and we will go on to stay up now. As for next season, I think it still leaves a question as to whether LJ is the right man but we will say. A clear out in the dressing room and his infamous third window and we might see what he's really capable of?

[GrahamC]

37 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Nothing to do with GJ being in hospital with a heart problem but a cynic would say that because of GJ influence on Juniors thinking, his absence - for whatever reason - coincided with the best performance and win of the season.

Not even you Graham can dispute that City for large periods of the season had bugger all go their way. Refereeing mistakes, which have been acknowledged by the referee association and losing so many games by the odd goal. Unlike Huddersfield, City have not been on the end of a 4-0 drubbing all season.

At Wigan the luck began to change and last night everything went City's way including their CB missing through illness and Hogg getting stretchered off. Add to that a dodgy penalty award in our favour an we benefitted greatly by those changes in fortune.

Now I call very significant change karma and got told by some smart arse that's not the proper use of the word karma........

Utter bollocks.

Since Christmas alone we have been awarded 3 soft penalties at home (Reading, Burton & again last night).

It is definitely not the officials fault that we weren't then good enough to defend a two goal lead for the final 20 minutes v Reading or that we missed from the spot v Burton. Nor that Cardiff's manager made substitutions that won him a game from a losing position at AG whereas ours made ones that lost us it.

I genuinely don't buy all this "we have been consistently hard done by by the officials" horseshit, the disallowed Burton goal aside (which I think the ref then tried to atone for by giving us a very soft penalty) I think we have had a pretty even deal.

What I have regularly seen though is a disorganised, constantly changing line up (and formation) which has contributed far, far more to our dismal results than some fairy story that you choose to believe that we have had mistake after mistake go against us by the match day officials.

To be honest though I don't know why I'm even bothering to argue with you, seeing as you appear to see life though the eyes of a seven year old..

[Robin1988]

9 hours ago, Nibor said:

I haven't seen any lack of effort on the pitch, just confusion and lack of confidence stemming from change after change after change.  Tonight was far better, with a balanced side and a clear direction to press high up the pitch.  We also got a lot of breaks tonight we haven't had recently.

Season summer up in one paragraph. Chopping and changing constantly doesn't work, breeds confusion, and hits morale. The fact they're still playing for LJ after all this says more about the group in the dressing room than it does about him, really.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

We have all seen the rumours, we all read the conspiracy theories and the apparent posts from insiders telling us how split this dressing room is and many of us have chosen to believe them.

In a thread last week I was asked to defend my position in saying that I felt that this was either untrue or exaggerated to undermine the Manager, I said that the only thing I had to go on was the performances on the pitch. I have seen teams in the past that were not trying, not interested or genuinely disillusioned with the Management and it is not a pretty sight, but for all our failings recently, I hadn't seen that this season.

My question to those who think that there is disunity in this squad, honestly, can you really sit there, hand on heart and tell us that last night was the performance of a team that wasn't behind their Manager and committed to the cause?

My question to those who think that there may not be disunity in this squad, honestly, can you really sit there, hand on heart and tell us that last night was the performance of a team that suddenly realised the gravity of our situation and could see the fatted calf about to be slaughtered?.

You don't know and neither almost certainly does anybody else on here, what I do know is when things are going wrong (especially over a long 5 month period) and home truths are being bandied around in dressing rooms that will always be a recipe for disunity and ego's of players who cannot accept even with documentary evidence that they made a mistake.

 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Utter bollocks.

Since Christmas alone we have been awarded 3 soft penalties at home (Reading, Burton & again last night).

It is definitely not the officials fault that we weren't then good enough to defend a two goal lead for the final 20 minutes v Reading or that we missed from the spot v Burton. Nor that Cardiff's manager made substitutions that won him a game from a losing position at AG whereas ours made ones that lost us it.

What I have regularly seen though is a disorganised, constantly changing line up (and formation) which has contributed

You are missing the point I Making Graham.......

That said I agree with the two points above, particularly the second one.

Junior has chopped and changed the players and the formation far too frequently and that effects the individual players performances. To me that's an obvious flaw of tinkering so much.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

I still can't get my head around why tonight was so good and the last few months so bad. 

Flint said we had a game plan. LJ said tonight we executed the game plan. Tomlin said we trained very hard all week.  

Those statements confuse me even more. Why only this match did we get it right?

Sky commentator who spoke to an unnamed Board member said LJ wanted Pemberton out in the summer but was overruled.  Was that the problem?

The same Sky commentator said when mentioning MA that he was a Board member.  I suspect he spoke with MA. That makes sense.  So perhaps the problem was Pemberton/Johnson chemistry, or perhaps Pemberton was fouling up pre match training. 

Anyone got a better explanation? Clearly something has changed, and not merely Lady Luck.  

For those on here saying nothing wrong in dressing room Sky clearly said Tomlin and Johnson had clashed, and added, these things happen. Clash over  training/coaching? Pemberton?

We will never be told. So we have to hope that whatever disarray there has been behind the scenes it is now resolved 

Re the Pemberton bit, I posted something about good cop / bad cop a little while back.  Typically your Assistant Manager is good cop and the manager bad cop, e.g. Players on the fringe or being left out will go to the Assistant Tom Ian when they'd never go directly to the boss.  I in no way blame Holden's coaching or buy the conspiracy theory that results went down when he arrived.  What I did say is that it may have upset the equilibrium of that good cop / bad cop relationship, e.g. Would players go to Holden knowing he was a Johnson appontment?  I've no idea, but I posed the question.

By the same token, I'm not going to say the recent upturn is because Pembo has gone.  To some, that must mean he's the bad apple.

Perhaps the good cop / bad cop equilibrium has been restored, it more a case of players knowing exactly where they stand, who they can trust etc.

 

Back to the OP.

Lets not get carried away by 1 or 2 (or 4 if you like) games.  The next 8 game losing streak could be around the corner!  Hopefully not.  As for the player / manager relationship, you need to remember professional players are 'immature' - they'd let you wipe their arse if you would.  They are fickle.  Do you expect a group of players to go out on front of 55k at NUFC or in front of Sky cameras, and not give that little bit extra?    Not all players are like that, but in the brutality of the Championship, a couple of players not pulling their weight can have a dramatic effect on a mid-table side, dragging them down.  The manager needs to identify and stop this.  Of course it's conjecture by me, but I think some players have not bust a gut every week because of how they've been treated.

LJ seems to have stumbled on a group of 13/14 that are regularly playing, and it is starting to bear results.  Long may it continue.  It's taken him too long to find that though.