It's Our club Mr Lansdown

[Cowshed]

12 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

All I'm trying to understand Ivor is the definition of what a franchise really is. If we've been around for 120 years then how can we be a franchise of a company that's only been  around for 3 or 4 years ? 

In a normal franchise relationship the franchiser outsources its services and brands to others to use at a cost, and to create shared profits.

Bristol City are sharing Bristol Sports branding. There is an element of franchising present.

 

[pillred]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 15:21, Wanderingred said:

24 hours ago, the opening post would have got about 50 likes. We won our last game though so now its being torn to shreds!!

are you by any chance suggesting we are a fickle lot?

[Red-Robbo]

13 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Please be better informed before sounding off.  You are, of course, not alone in failing to understand the massive danger BS is or the antediluvian governance embraced by SL.

Those who agree with me are as unlikely to convince you and those who agree with you as you are us.  

We just have to agree we all want the very best for City but disagree about the current governance structure and long term aims of SL and BS

Time will tell which group got it right.  In many ways I would like to be proved wrong but I just don't honestly believe I will be

Whether he's right or wrong, IG,  it isn't a "franchise".

A franchise is the US sport model where the owner rather than the club owns the right to field a team in a league.

BS is a holding company for a number of different sport teams, and despite what Lansdown believes, that idea is not unique in English sport. 

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Please be better informed before sounding off.  You are, of course, not alone in failing to understand the massive danger BS is or the antediluvian governance embraced by SL.

Those who agree with me are as unlikely to convince you and those who agree with you as you are us.  

We just have to agree we all want the very best for City but disagree about the current governance structure and long term aims of SL and BS

Time will tell which group got it right.  In many ways I would like to be proved wrong but I just don't honestly believe I will be

May I ask in what respect you find the governance "antideluvian"? I think bringing several sports under one banner and cross marketing etc is very forward thinking, not outdated at all. Do you mean it in a different aspect or sense? 

[ChippenhamRed]

14 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Please be better informed before sounding off.  You are, of course, not alone in failing to understand the massive danger BS is or the antediluvian governance embraced by SL.

Those who agree with me are as unlikely to convince you and those who agree with you as you are us.  

We just have to agree we all want the very best for City but disagree about the current governance structure and long term aims of SL and BS

Time will tell which group got it right.  In many ways I would like to be proved wrong but I just don't honestly believe I will be

How incredibly arrogant to assume that people who don't share your opinion on Bristol Sport lack understanding.  It is simply your subjective opinion that BS presents a "massive danger", it is not an established fact.  It is not a failing of understanding in the rest of us not to share that opinion.

Thanks to the Bristol Sport model I have developed an affinity to the rugby club I didn't have before, and watched said rugby team whilst benefitting from a discounted ticket.  I've also started to take a passing interest in the basketball team.  None of this has diluted my interest in Bristol City FC, who still wear red shirts with the same badge and still play at Ashton Gate stadium with its John Atyeo Stand, it's Marina Dolman Way, and it's red seats.  Before Bristol Sport existed, we still appointed crap managers and we still suffered relegations.

Just because some of us are willing to embrace the Bristol Sport model and appreciate the benefits that it brings does not mean that we "fail to understand".  Maybe it just means we are a little more open minded to new ideas that, as far as I can tell, remain largely respectful to our heritage and do not mean our owner has suddenly evolved into some sort of evil dictator.

[Merrick's Marvels]

20 hours ago, SARJ said:

Well known gas head before buying City. Suggest you pop into Marlwood Secondary School near Severn Beach. Huge photo of him in there wearing a rovers top.

Sarj, whilst I'm of the opinion Lansdown is a prize numpty, what are the chances of there being a huge photo of him in a school he never went to?

Slim, I'd say.

He was educated at Thornbury Grammar, then Sheffield Poly.

[Cowshed]

Just now, ChippenhamRed said:

How incredibly arrogant to assume that people who don't share your opinion on Bristol Sport lack understanding.  It is simply your subjective opinion that BS presents a "massive danger", it is not an established fact.  It is not a failing of understanding in the rest of us not to share that opinion.

Thanks to the Bristol Sport model I have developed an affinity to the rugby club I didn't have before, and watched said rugby team whilst benefitting from a discounted ticket.  I've also started to take a passing interest in the basketball team.  None of this has diluted my interest in Bristol City FC, who still wear red shirts with the same badge and still play at Ashton Gate stadium with its John Atyeo Stand, it's Marina Dolman Way, and it's red seats.  Before Bristol Sport existed, we still appointed crap managers and we still suffered relegations.

Just because some of us are willing to embrace the Bristol Sport model and appreciate the benefits that it brings does not mean that we "fail to understand".  Maybe it just means we are a little more open minded to new ideas that, as far as I can tell, remain largely respectful to our heritage and do not mean our owner has suddenly evolved into some sort of evil dictator.

Your interest in rugby could have been piqued by another model.  Obvious models. Bristol Sport has no obvious parallels in model, and certainly not Barcelona!

Our owner? Bristol City was once a club playing its own stadium, owned by fans, the Pride of the West, it is now something different.A fact is that fans (some) do not like Bristol Sport. That is damage to an increasing number.

And again the above is not necessary. BS could have remained a backroom operation. One person decides different. That is no club.

 

 

[Natchfever]

13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Sarj, whilst I'm of the opinion Lansdown is a prize numpty, what are the chances of there being a huge photo of him in a school he never went to?

Slim, I'd say.

He was educated at Thornbury Grammar, then Sheffield Poly.

Marlwood used to be Thornbury Grammar I believe.

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Marlwood used to be Thornbury Grammar I believe.

Yes, that rings a bell now Loon!

I stand corrected.

(But strictly speaking, Lansdown never went to a school called Marlwood, like I said !!)

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

On Sunday, April 09, 2017 at 16:12, Vincent Vega said:

Least they spend it though eh.

Hey! Those tents don't come cheap!

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

May I ask in what respect you find the governance "antideluvian"? I think bringing several sports under one banner and cross marketing etc is very forward thinking, not outdated at all. Do you mean it in a different aspect or sense? 

What I mean is no customer (fan)representation on the Board, no staff representation, no community representation.

A Board emasculated by having to get owner's ok

This is not a financial company but a community one or should be

 

 

 

[SARJ]

20 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah, he's behaved like a die hard Rovers fan, hasn't he..?! 

Not saying he has, just stating facts. To call him a 'genuine  City fan' as per the OP is not correct, as he was originally gas.

15 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Marlwood is in Alveston. Can't say I've ever heard of this photo before....

Kid in the Riot, as you have demonstrated on other posts, if what people say hasn't happened to you or been seen by you personally, then it can't be true. A very nasty trait that doesn't make for good forum debate. Is it at all conceivable that just because you may not have seen the photograph in question, that it might still exist regardless? I've never seen the photographs of the Queen's sister naked, but it's an accepted fact that they are out there somewhere.

 

I suggest you read the rest of the thread. The school changed names. There was at one point a photo of Lansdown there in Rover's attire. I believe he contributed some funds to the school or they named a hall/wing in his name or something. I am constantly reminded of this, on a daily basis, by gas head colleagues who went there or have the photos. 

Photos of Landown in Gas garb has been shared on this forum in bygone years also.

[Port Said Red]

33 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

What I mean is no customer (fan)representation on the Board, no staff representation, no community representation.

A Board emasculated by having to get owner's ok

This is not a financial company but a community one or should b

 

If the board is so emasculated why do you care about representation upon it? What decisions do you think would be different with said involvement. If you really think that Mr Lansdown doesn't deserve a final say on how his millions are spent, what is the alternative? I don't see queues of people looking to take us over or any guarantee that anyone else would act with more care for the fans/staff/community than the current incumbent.

[Kid in the Riot]

22 minutes ago, SARJ said:

Not saying he has, just stating facts. To call him a 'genuine  City fan' as per the OP is not correct, as he was originally gas.

Kid in the Riot, as you have demonstrated on other posts, if what people say hasn't happened to you or been seen by you personally, then it can't be true. A very nasty trait that doesn't make for good forum debate. Is it at all conceivable that just because you may not have seen the photograph in question, that it might still exist regardless? I've never seen the photographs of the Queen's sister naked, but it's an accepted fact that they are out there somewhere.

 

I suggest you read the rest of the thread. The school changed names. There was at one point a photo of Lansdown there in Rover's attire. I believe he contributed some funds to the school or they named a hall/wing in his name or something. I am constantly reminded of this, on a daily basis, by gas head colleagues who went there or have the photos. 

Photos of Landown in Gas garb has been shared on this forum in bygone years also.

Deary me, get over yourself pal. I was local to Marlwood for many years and know many people who attended that school and taught there (I went to the rival one FWIW) and I've never heard a mention of this - that's why I am so skeptical. Perhaps your gaseous little friends are telling you porkies...

You said there's a HUGE photo of him there, now you've changed your mind and are saying it was "there at one point". Make your mind up...it sounds like you haven't seen it and you don't even know where Marlwood is so I'm sensing a whiff of BS

[ashton_fan]

21 hours ago, NickJ said:

Relegated weeks ago.

Our entire season has been saved by a player that will not be here next.

Quite a sobering thought.

I would also cast doubt on the notion that LJ would have had the connections or pulling power to have had much to do with bringing Tammy here.

How come Tammy said what clinched it for him was LJ travelling to London to meet his parents? Give credit where it's due, LJ has made mistakes this season but done some good things as well.

[bs3]

On 4/9/2017 at 15:15, Bat Fastard said:

With their poultry connections, if we chose the Venky family, do you think they would bring back the chicken, leek and ham pies?  If so, it could swing my vote!

I was always a big fan of the chicken balti pies they used to sell.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, SARJ said:

Not saying he has, just stating facts. To call him a 'genuine  City fan' as per the OP is not correct, as he was originally gas.

Kid in the Riot, as you have demonstrated on other posts, if what people say hasn't happened to you or been seen by you personally, then it can't be true. A very nasty trait that doesn't make for good forum debate. Is it at all conceivable that just because you may not have seen the photograph in question, that it might still exist regardless? I've never seen the photographs of the Queen's sister naked, but it's an accepted fact that they are out there somewhere.

 

I suggest you read the rest of the thread. The school changed names. There was at one point a photo of Lansdown there in Rover's attire. I believe he contributed some funds to the school or they named a hall/wing in his name or something. I am constantly reminded of this, on a daily basis, by gas head colleagues who went there or have the photos. 

Photos of Landown in Gas garb has been shared on this forum in bygone years also.

Indeed.

No mystery that Lansdown was Rovers, he has been quite open about it in the past, and only apparently changed allegiance when they moved to Twerton.

Not a hanging offence, but I feel he is a little more dispassionate than most of the fanbase, and sees the football club as simply a constituent part of a sporting group that will now most likely provide his legacy via the rugby club.

Its all about opinions, but I can't consider him a "genuine" fan, and he almost certainly doesn't give a stuff what any fan thinks one way or the other. Its his club(s) operating out of his stadium after all.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

As others have said, we should be very careful what we wish for.

Of course many of us are very frustrated by what is going on at the club, it's desperately disappointing that we don't seem to be moving on and we seem reluctant to appoint a proven, successful manager.

But in terms of the ownership of our club, it could be much worse.

A Chinese brother and sister tried to buy Hull City last year, but the move was stopped by the Premier League who had serious concerns about the way the purchase deal was being structured.

So now the same brother and sister are trying to buy Reading and if they are successful with their purchase and Reading get promoted this season, the Premier League is saying they may block Reading's promotion so they wouldn't go up.

What a mess! These two Chinese siblings are obviously just desperate to buy an English club, any club, to which they wouldn't have any emotional commitment or bond, or any demonstrable loyalty, they just want to make some money.

Who knows, they could be great owners in terms of paying silly transfer fees and salaries for the best players and appointing a top notch coaching team, but where and how would it end? I'm not sure they'd be in it for the long term and what would happen then?

Would anyone be happy for SL to sell to someone like that? 

[Red-Robbo]

Lansdown has spoken about not particularly being interested in football, until Jon made him go along at City in the 90s. He played rugby at grammar school, not football. 

He may well have been a nominal Gas fan as a kid, because Thornbury is mainly blue, but to call him an "avid fan" of them seems to be stretching it a bit. Avid fans don't change their affiliation. If City went out of business, and Rovers were the only team in Bristol I'd go and watch Yeovil - or whatever phoenix club would emerge in south Bristol.....

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, SARJ said:

Not saying he has, just stating facts. To call him a 'genuine  City fan' as per the OP is not correct, as he was originally gas.

 

I think he is just generally a fan of Bristol sport 

[ChippenhamRed]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Your interest in rugby could have been piqued by another model.  Obvious models. Bristol Sport has no obvious parallels in model, and certainly not Barcelona!

Our owner? Bristol City was once a club playing its own stadium, owned by fans, the Pride of the West, it is now something different.A fact is that fans (some) do not like Bristol Sport. That is damage to an increasing number.

And again the above is not necessary. BS could have remained a backroom operation. One person decides different. That is no club.

 

 

Why only adopt a model that has an "obvious parallel"?  Why only do what is "necessary"?  What is so offensive about trying something new and different?  Nothing new was ever achieved by only doing what's been done before.

Pride of the West?  One third tier title in 60 years and an out-of-date stadium.  At least Lansdown has been able to do something about the latter.

I see no problem in new and innovative approaches to putting Bristol on the sporting map - especially Bristol City FC - as long as they remain largely respectful to our history and heritage.  And since none of the important fundamentals have changed - the name of the club, the name of the stadium, the colour, the badge - then I really don't see the issue at all.

[Cowshed]

38 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Why only adopt a model that has an "obvious parallel"?  Why only do what is "necessary"?  What is so offensive about trying something new and different?  Nothing new was ever achieved by only doing what's been done before.

Pride of the West?  One third tier title in 60 years and an out-of-date stadium.  At least Lansdown has been able to do something about the latter.

I see no problem in new and innovative approaches to putting Bristol on the sporting map - especially Bristol City FC - as long as they remain largely respectful to our history and heritage.  And since none of the important fundamentals have changed - the name of the club, the name of the stadium, the colour, the badge - then I really don't see the issue at all.

Why only adopt a model that has an "obvious parallel"? Because best practice, excellence are things to aspire to. Mr Lansdown has removed the elements of accountability/democracy and supporter involvement .. And that did not require a unnecessary brand either.

Real innovation would be to re-engage BCFC with elements of fandom it is losing. Methodology employed by German clubs instantly springs to mind - Red Bull excepted.. Clubs there had no need to create Bristol Sports. BS are not necessary.

 

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

In a normal franchise relationship the franchiser outsources its services and brands to others to use at a cost, and to create shared profits.

Bristol City are sharing Bristol Sports branding. There is an element of franchising present.

 

Ah ok thanks it makes sense now . 

[Ivorguy]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

If the board is so emasculated why do you care about representation upon it? What decisions do you think would be different with said involvement. If you really think that Mr Lansdown doesn't deserve a final say on how his millions are spent, what is the alternative? I don't see queues of people looking to take us over or any guarantee that anyone else would act with more care for the fans/staff/community than the current incumbent.

I am seeking a different governance model in it's entirety. I do not approve of such a dated Victorian model akin to the old mill owner model.  My grandfather operated such a model in Bristol in the 19th century. It is not fit for purpose in 21st century, especially of a community based enterprise.

If we look at Germany or elsewhere on the continent we can see far better and far more community focussed models. 

Am confident the SL model will not, cannot survive, long term.  My abiding worry is that when BS does hit the buffers that it doesn't take City with it.

[Port Said Red]

4 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I am seeking a different governance model in it's entirety. I do not approve of such a dated Victorian model akin to the old mill owner model.  My grandfather operated such a model in Bristol in the 19th century. It is not fit for purpose in 21st century, especially of a community based enterprise.

If we look at Germany or elsewhere on the continent we can see far better and far more community focussed models. 

Am confident the SL model will not, cannot survive, long term.  My abiding worry is that when BS does hit the buffers that it doesn't take City with it.

In your humble opinion. I don't think the way this club is governed as private enterprise is any of your concern, if you don't like the way it is run you can sit back and watch it die. What works in Germany may not work here, for a start we would have to look at removing the milllions of pounds of debt so we could start with a clean slate, or perhaps you feel the "community" will supply that instead of SL? If you compare clubs in this country who operate in the same financial market I don't think you will find we are run any more or less autonomously than many other clubs. 
Bournemouth tried living as a community run club but only really achieved success when they sold out to a large investor. You might like to think that we live outside the finances of football like some sort of anarcho syndicalist commune, but I don't think it's any more realistic than a benign Communist Government. SL's idea is to bring in as many revenue streams as possible and as such he IS trying to engage with the community to supply services they need.

[1953]

Can someone please explain to me what possible relevance it is who the hell SL supported when he was a kid? Do you imagine the Venkys were lifelong Blackburn fans? If some foreign consortium took over here (God forbid) they aren't going to have grown up listening to the Wurzels and having the teats on their bottles dipped in Thatchers. So give the guy a break. He's local and obviously is doing what he feels is his best to raise the sporting facilities in the City, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for that.  

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, 1953 said:

Can someone please explain to me what possible relevance it is who the hell SL supported when he was a kid? Do you imagine the Venkys were lifelong Blackburn fans? If some foreign consortium took over here (God forbid) they aren't going to have grown up listening to the Wurzels and having the teats on their bottles dipped in Thatchers. So give the guy a break. He's local and obviously is doing what he feels is his best to raise the sporting facilities in the City, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for that.  

He has been quoted as saying he used to follow both clubs but put his time into City when his son became a fan. 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Lansdown has spoken about not particularly being interested in football, until Jon made him go along at City in the 90s. He played rugby at grammar school, not football. 

He may well have been a nominal Gas fan as a kid, because Thornbury is mainly blue, but to call him an "avid fan" of them seems to be stretching it a bit. 

Thornbury mainly blue!! You must be having a laugh. Having grown up there I can tell you the gas are a rare a breed there as they are throughout Bristol.

I'd say it was 70/30 City at worst whilst I lived there.

 

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

In your humble opinion. I don't think the way this club is governed as private enterprise is any of your concern, if you don't like the way it is run you can sit back and watch it die. What works in Germany may not work here, for a start we would have to look at removing the milllions of pounds of debt so we could start with a clean slate, or perhaps you feel the "community" will supply that instead of SL? If you compare clubs in this country who operate in the same financial market I don't think you will find we are run any more or less autonomously than many other clubs. 
Bournemouth tried living as a community run club but only really achieved success when they sold out to a large investor. You might like to think that we live outside the finances of football like some sort of anarcho syndicalist commune, but I don't think it's any more realistic than a benign Communist Government. SL's idea is to bring in as many revenue streams as possible and as such he IS trying to engage with the community to supply services they need.

I don't believe we shall ever agree on this issue as we are so apart in our thinking.

For both our sakes I hope City is around in another 100 years with a new generation of fans, including our own descendants,  who will enjoy the sort of success my grandfather enjoyed over 100 years ago when he watched City narrowly lose in a Cup Final

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Thornbury mainly blue!! You must be having a laugh. Having grown up there I can tell you the gas are a rare a breed there as they are throughout Bristol.

I'd say it was 70/30 City at worst whilst I lived there.

 

Not in my experience. I had two university friends from Thornbury (well, one from Tockington to be precise) both Gas. 

Being a bit older than you, the situation may have changed over the years, I guess. Nonetheless, one bank holiday pub crawl in Thornbury is the only occasion I have ever been threatened with being filled in by angry Gasheads after laughing at some particularly woeful defeat they'd suffered.