Ok

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

And the rest of his time here (which is the majority) is play-off form. The issue I have with people focusing on LJ's tenure as purely the one negative run is that they ignore the rest to conveniently suit their own opinions, even when it is the majority of his time here that he's done extremely well and a run we recovered from months ago now. That's why there's no splitting from them, it doesn't suit their argument.

 

People with demanding expectations in this thread again claiming that the season was a 'disaster'. It certainly wasn't a success and there was one disastrous run but these people really need to reign in their expectations. 17th place where we are currently seems perfectly acceptable considering our resources and the squad we have. Again, maybe it's because the highs were so high and the lows were extremely low, but it seems some just can't let go of a bad run of results, which we've since recovered from in an extremely impressive fashion, and won't be as tolerable as they would be if our results had spread out in a more balanced manner, for whatever reason. I just find it very sad how people can be so single-minded.

 

We had one bad run of form, players and management were rightfully criticised. LJ and SL acknowledged that criticism was warranted. We recovered in incredible fashion. He's 35 years old, managing his first full season at this level so it was unlikely to be plain sailing throughout, we're Bristol City and usually in relegation battles. If we finish 17th or higher it's our 4th highest finish this turn of the century, so not a disaster, that's for sure. Get over it.

Get over what?

The facts are, notwithstanding the fact that a brilliant run at the end of the season got us out of a hole caused by a middle season crisis that at very best can be described as appalling, we will end up with 54-57 points from 46 matches this season. Nothing like promotion form. That's not selective analysis either, as it is based on playing every team in the division twice, and represents a below par score to me......maybe only 5-10 points below par. If we finish 15th after Sunday we are maybe a place or two below general expectations but if we finish 20th (unlikely but we "could" just as we "could" finish 15th) then we are a number of places below expectations for many fans this season.

The problem for many is that the one "bad run of form" lasted FOUR BLOODY MONTHS!! I stand by what I say, that won't be allowed to happen again and fans won't be anywhere near as tolerant if it does threaten to happen again. Progress for me next season would be to finish in the 10-14th bracket without the threat of relegation hanging over our heads. I don't see that as overly demanding at all and it is now up to Johnson, who we all know is staying, to deliver that or better.

So again, what do you want me to get over exactly?

[havanatopia]

40 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

It is isn`t it? I`m fast coming round to believing that had the consecutive defeats been spread out rather than coming all at one time we`d all be patting ourselves on the back after a season of consolidation.

Funny old game innit?

2, 3 or 5 points better off than last season; 

verb CONSOLIDATE:-

1. 1.
   make (something) physically stronger or more solid.

   "the first phase of the project is to consolidate the outside walls"

   •  
2. 2.

   combine (a number of things) into a single more effective or coherent whole.

   "all manufacturing activities have been consolidated in new premises"

   synonyms:

   combine, unite, merge, integrate, amalgamate, fuse, synthesize, bring together, unify "consolidate the results into an action plan"

   I am being a bit sardonic or facetious by reminding us both of the meaning of consolidate. I will be more direct; I think you are stretching the definition a bit !!

[JHAGa]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Get over what?

The facts are, notwithstanding the fact that a brilliant run at the end of the season got us out of a hole caused by a middle season crisis that at very best can be described as appalling, we will end up with 54-57 points from 46 matches this season. Nothing like promotion form. That's not selective analysis either, as it is based on playing every team in the division twice, and represents a below par score to me......maybe only 5-10 points below par. If we finish 15th after Sunday we are maybe a place or two below general expectations but if we finish 20th (unlikely but we "could" just as we "could" finish 15th) then we are a number of places below expectations for many fans this season.

The problem for many is that the one "bad run of form" lasted FOUR BLOODY MONTHS!! I stand by what I say, that won't be allowed to happen again and fans won't be anywhere near as tolerant if it does threaten to happen again. Progress for me next season would be to finish in the 10-14th bracket without the threat of relegation hanging over our heads. I don't see that as overly demanding at all and it is now up to Johnson, who we all know is staying, to deliver that or better.

So again, what do you want me to get over exactly?

 

That wasn't addressed to you specifically but it does apply to your post too. It's the people that can't get over the bad run of form (yes, we know it was terrible but it's in the past now, SL and LJ acknowledged criticism was warranted, we went on to respond to it very well) and opt to focus on it and ignore everything else LJ has done here. Your post stated you have an issue with those who split the season into parts but it's just looking at the bigger picture. He did a good job last season, a good job at the start of this season and a good job ending it. Instead of complete focus on just the negative run people also recognise that he's done a good job here for the majority of his time, it's just the lows were extremely low. And again, the run was terrible, criticism was warranted, just as credit is due for when LJ has got things right.

 

Hopefully lessons will have been learned and experience gathered from this season. As I've said numerous times, you learn the most in the testing times and I'm sure LJ and the players will benefit from a full year's experience at this level together going into next season.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

28 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

2, 3 or 5 points better off than last season; 

verb CONSOLIDATE:-

1. 1.
   make (something) physically stronger or more solid.

   "the first phase of the project is to consolidate the outside walls"

   •  
2. 2.

   combine (a number of things) into a single more effective or coherent whole.

   "all manufacturing activities have been consolidated in new premises"

   synonyms:

   combine, unite, merge, integrate, amalgamate, fuse, synthesize, bring together, unify "consolidate the results into an action plan"

   I am being a bit sardonic or facetious by reminding us both of the meaning of consolidate. I will be more direct; I think you are stretching the definition a bit !!

Yeah probably! I really mean I suppose that a lot of the unpleasantness (if you can call it that, probably I`m being a bit generous there too!) wouldn`t have happened if we`d won a couple, lost a couple, won one, lost or drawn two rather than it all coming all at once in one disastrous period.

[Kid in the Riot]

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

[RumRed]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

 I would not trust him with another window and I'd be certainly happy if he went before spending yet more money.

The season has been shambolic and LJ is only getting the plaudits now because of a good few results at the end of the season, a time when we all know the form book goes out the window.

Anyone who can't see this season as an unmitigated disaster will not ever view it as it appears to others.

Troubling. 

 

[JHAGa]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

Nothing successful about this season but nothing amiss in stating that 17th position in the Championship is acceptable for us and that we started and have ended the season very well. One very bad run in the middle doesn't make that not the truth. Claiming otherwise is revisionism. And nobody is said anything got in the way of us winning the league.

Just now, RumRed said:

 I would not trust him with another window and I'd be certainly happy if he went before spending yet more money.

The season has been shambolic and LJ is only getting the plaudits now because of a good few results at the end of the season, a time when we all know the form book goes out the window.

Anyone who can't see this season as an unmitigated disaster will not ever view it as it appears to others.

Troubling. 

 

 

Let's be fair, it was people like yourself who were saying you wouldn't trust LJ to keep us up and he did it. Again, 'shambolic' and 'disaster' are most certainly not words I'd use to describe the season as a whole. The poor run of form we went on, absolutely. Not the overall season though. People seem to have very high expectations of the club when we're in a respectable position for the club in terms of its overall history and in a very competitive division. We spent money in the summer, I'm sure you will say, but we lost a key player without a replacement until January. Our net spend was £0. We finished 18th last season, we will finish between 15th-19th this season. Nothing shocking there. We could have done better, we could have done worse. Lessons will have been learned and that seems to have been demonstrated by our recent run. Unless you opt to give no credit to the management and claim it was because 'the form book goes out of the window at the end of the season', whatever that means.

[P'head Red]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

I don't think anyone is saying this season has been fine, it hasn't, we have underachieved. 

What needs to be looked at is what casued us to slump into that horrible run of form, and also what changed to get us out of it. Was LJ the casue of both? I think so, but the blame isn't all his. 

What's paramount right now is that we've managed to stay in the championship, something that looked unlikely not too long ago. 

People have been very quick to (rightly so) accuse the manager when we've been poor, so why doesn't he deserve credit for when we do well, the last 5 games for example.

What sort of message would it send to the players, and any future managers by the way, if SL was to give LJ the boot now that he's got us out of the mess he got us in? Not a very good one i imagine. 

Sure, if a similar run of form occurs next season I too will want to see him gone, but it would be a terrible decision to sack him now. 

[ChippenhamRed]

46 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

There are a variety of views on this thread, but most of them are moderate, and most recognise that overall the season has ultimately been a disappointment.

What you are claiming here is clearly not the consensus view and you know it.

[ChippenhamRed]

59 minutes ago, RumRed said:

 I would not trust him with another window and I'd be certainly happy if he went before spending yet more money.

The season has been shambolic and LJ is only getting the plaudits now because of a good few results at the end of the season, a time when we all know the form book goes out the window.

Anyone who can't see this season as an unmitigated disaster will not ever view it as it appears to others.

Troubling. 

 

If being 17th - a few places below the mid table finish most expected and qualifying us to start The Championship on zero points in August alongside everyone else - is an "unmitigated disaster", what would relegation have been? 

[RumRed]

Just now, ChippenhamRed said:

If being 17th - a few places below the mid table finish most expected and qualifying us to start The Championship on zero points in August alongside everyone else - is an "unmitigated disaster", what would relegation have been? 

Unacceptable

[P'head Red]

10 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Unacceptable

On a scale of amazing to unmitigated disaster i'd say unacceptable was quite mild. 

[ChippenhamRed]

12 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Unacceptable

Titanic sinks = unacceptable

Titanic hits iceberg but stays afloat and everyone survives = unmitigated disaster

[RumRed]

Just now, P'head Red said:

On a scale of amazing to unmitigated disaster i'd say unacceptable was quite mild. 

The problem was the way the season was sold to us prior to a ball being kicked. 

I still feel that we have the worst of both worlds, Premier corporate BS whilst fighting relegation to Div 3.

I have no problem with standing on a terrace in Div 4 as long as it feels like 'our' club, I am not a trophy hunter but can we make our mind up what we are?

Are we a 'big' club spending money to get to the Prem or are we happy to be in a lower division without bloody hashtags on the shirt?

It is time to shit or get off the pot as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RumRed]

Just now, ChippenhamRed said:

Titanic sinks = unacceptable

Titanic hits iceberg but stays afloat and everyone survives = unmitigated disaster

Semantics of language, but in my understanding of english you have summed that up correctly.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Unbelievable amount of revisionism going on in this thread and the forum in general.

Apparently this season has been fine, some brilliant football has been played and just "one run of bad form" has got in the way of us winning the league by the sounds of it?

That's ok then.

Astonishing.

 Haven't seen anyone say that this season has been fine, so keep it real.  People are just pointing out that it has been a season of four quarters, two of them good, two of the bad.  Happily, we've finished on a high.

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

If being 17th - a few places below the mid table finish most expected and qualifying us to start The Championship on zero points in August alongside everyone else - is an "unmitigated disaster", what would relegation have been? 

What you are claiming here is not a fair reflection of our season, and you know it.

Safety secured with a game to go tells a different story to the one of jolly mid-table happiness you are trying to portray.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

What you are claiming here is not a fair reflection of our season, and you know it.

Safety secured with a game to go tells a different story to the one of jolly mid-table happiness you are trying to portray.

I am claiming that we are 17th and that 17th is only a few places below the mid table finish most predicted. Which part of that is not true?

Not trying to portray jollyness of any sort. It's been enormously worrying until very recently, no one is denying that. But ultimately our league position shows fairly mild underachievement, not "unmitigated disaster". The season must be judged in its entirety and ultimately, recovering to finish 17th having been in the relegation zone is no more or less successful than being in the top half and then fading to 17th spot.

[BCFC Rich]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

What you are claiming here is not a fair reflection of our season, and you know it.

Safety secured with a game to go tells a different story to the one of jolly mid-table happiness you are trying to portray.

 

True, but also not the disaster others make out. Two defeats in place of 2 wins and we'd be relying on GD to be outside relegation. Two wins in place of defeats and we'd be level with Derby in 9th (probably just behind due to GD). The league is just incredibly tight and that's why there is a split - because those who doubt him feel we have been lucky with some wins and those who think he has the potential think we have been unlucky with some defeats.

Personally, I think he deserves the start of next season. The end of season form cannot be faulted. You just have to decide whether you focus on the 1/3 of LJ's games mid season or the other 2/3's. Which reflects his management more? And I totally understand people seeing the 22 games as the truth but I would argue that there is enough in the other games to warrant him getting a chance. 

[pillred]

54 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

 Haven't seen anyone say that this season has been fine, so keep it real.  People are just pointing out that it has been a season of four quarters, two of them good, two of the bad.  Happily, we've finished on a high.

yes a bit like grabbing a draw in stoppage time, it somehow feels like a win, it feels better to have finished well, but it cant disguise the fact with how many players we signed and our habit of building up the supporters expectations it has been a big let down.