Bar BS3 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I've been reading a few (same predictable people) views that LJ should be replaced over the summer. Surely any club that replaced a manager who has just lost only 2 of his last 11 games, winning SIX with 3 draws, would be event more mental than one who doesn't sack their manager after a record run of defeats..?! To want LJ out at this moment in time strikes me as nothing more than an agenda and being unable to give credit where it's due it turning things around. Do some people really think that we (or any club on the planet) would be correct in replacing a manager who has just taken 21 points from their last 11 games..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploppy Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Johnson out (just kidding he's fine by me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Any new manager we'd brought in would be hailed as a genius if they were to have achieved the same turnaround. In the last ten games we've lost less than Newcastle and Brighton. As someonce said, it's a funny old game . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Can people please stop using the word "Agenda". Nobody has one. They simply have a different opinion. Learn to live with it. It's been a massively divisive season - totally normal given the pattern of results. Are you surprised that opinions become polarised? Stop trying to place yourself above others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Did nooo get an agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globe Trotter Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 he won't be going anywhere. I think the city job came 2 years too early for him but maybe he's learning from his mistakes earlier in the season. We clearly have the quality of players to do well and thankfully LJ has stumbled upon his first choice starting team and has stopped the random formations / selections so next season who knows. Be interesting to see how we play without Tammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I've been reading a few (same predictable people) views that LJ should be replaced over the summer. Surely any club that replaced a manager who has just lost only 2 of his last 11 games, winning SIX with 3 draws, would be event more mental than one who doesn't sack their manager after a record run of defeats..?! To want LJ out at this moment in time strikes me as nothing more than an agenda and being unable to give credit where it's due it turning things around. Do some people really think that we (or any club on the planet) would be correct in replacing a manager who has just taken 21 points from their last 11 games..? Johnson still out for me and there is no agenda. Those 11 games you mention include lamentable performances against Brentford and Preston following which nearly everyone on here wanted him gone. Difficult to think we would have won yesterday had Brighton not been promoted earlier in the week, 4 of the 5 other wins came against lower half teams at home, while the other, other also at home, seemed to catch Huddersfield during a season end wobble, with 2 significant injuries to their team, one early during the game itself. I'm not suggesting we have been lucky in those 11 games because in fairness the losing run included many of the top teams, and so it all evens out over the season. I suppose if LJ had been luckier the easier games might have been more spread out and maybe then the losing run would never have happened. But the fact is, having spent £15m and in addition having probably the Championship's best loanee, we wet into the penultimate game not being certain of staying up. Johnson came to us with zero previous achievements and I still cannot get my head around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardy Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 For sure LJ has made mistakes but the guy deserves massive respect for seeing this through, the pressure on him and his family must of been immense. Lets hope he and us can learn from this and i hope LJ is the man to take us to the Premier league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I guess it depends who he is replaced with, and that he is successful. I think of Southampton when they replaced Nigel Adkins. LJ will be here a for a while more, but he will be under a lot more pressure next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicolin Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Look at it this way. LJ is a young manager and one that has learnt a lot about the championship this season , his players , himself ,the club and the fans. Yes he has made mistakes but we would rather have him, than having a manager , that's been sacked before and making the same mistakes before. Hopefully LJ will learn from those mistakes next season and beyond. We have some very exciting youngsters for next season,who will improve over the years to come , in game time and value. This is about the long term future and planning of the club. We can't just buy players for millions of pounds and not affect the clubs future . E.g. is Kodjia. Bought for a small amount of money and sold for a big profit. Yes we want to keep our best players but sometimes you have to cash in . As one door closes another opens for another youngster. So we will be there next season, cheering our team on and hoping to be in top half . Look at Blackburn, Wigan and Birmingham. Changed their managers and it hasn't helped them . COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR COYR PS Well done Lee , the players and for the board, for sticking with a bright young manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, yardy said: the guy deserves massive respect for seeing this through, the pressure on him and his family must of been immense. Oh come on. Yes the pressure of £10-20kpw into the bank account must be massive, a lesser person would have surely walked away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I've put some of my thoughts on hold because there are clearly a number of stories behind the scenes that may have affected this season As a result , and the fact that we've gone on a great run I think it would now be a real gamble to change the head coach.at this moment in time Continuity is undoubtedly beneficial (Needs to be positive continuity / the right man) My one caveat is - What no one on here knows is why the players suddenly upped a gear post Preston and what changed Without that answer , it is difficult to fully judge LJ and what part he played in the negative , or positive , or both , sides of that line My one concern is the possibility the players decided to up a gear themselves for a variety of reasons Im not saying that is or isn't the case but the hierarchy at AG need to know the answer as well as whose idea was it to go 4-4-2 and be consistent with selection Personally I believe that the behind closed doors 'meeting' the players / coaches had around the time of the Preston debacle ? Had a major influence if LJ was the one behind these things and finally realising LT wasn't good for the side , etc - good , let's see how we move forwards If none of these were his ideas I'd still have massive concerns In reality we will never know but as I've said SL and MA certainly need to know that answer Without doubt we will run with Lee and I hope with moving some on and some quality Championship ready signings we can stabilise properly in this league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 So many times over the years I've seen City managers - and LJ was certainly guilty of this on many occasions over this season - pick a team and formation specifically to counter opponents. What went so well under Cotts in our promotion season was that our formation never changed - we just let teams worry about countering us. LJ reverted to 442 and hasn't changed, whether playing Brighton or Blackburn, Huddersfield or Burton. Managers should, IMO always pick a team to play how they want them to play and not be deferential to their opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, kiwicolin said: Look at Blackburn, Wigan and Birmingham. Changed their managers and it hasn't helped them . Just as a factual correction. Blackburn have won more than they have lost since Mowbray was appointed. Wigan's win percentage has increased since sacking their manager. So it has helped, just maybe too late in both cases. Birmingham didn't change their manager because they were fighting relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardy Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, NickJ said: Oh come on. Yes the pressure of £10-20kpw into the bank account must be massive, a lesser person would have surely walked away from it. Bit harsh that pal, you think LJ is here just for the money? The strain and pressure put on his family when most of Bristol hates you must have been unbearable for him and his family......hell even his dad has had health problems! For the record i was in the Johnson out camp but now he has come through this he deserves another shot, hopefully he will be a better manager after all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwicolin Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Just now, NickJ said: Just as a factual correction. Blackburn have won more than they have lost since Mowbray was appointed. Wigan's win percentage has increased since sacking their manager. So it has helped, just maybe too late in both cases. Birmingham didn't change their manager because they were fighting relegation. But it still hasn't helped them, has it. We are safe. They are not . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, NickJ said: Johnson still out for me and there is no agenda. Those 11 games you mention include lamentable performances against Brentford and Preston following which nearly everyone on here wanted him gone. Difficult to think we would have won yesterday had Brighton not been promoted earlier in the week, 4 of the 5 other wins came against lower half teams at home, while the other, other also at home, seemed to catch Huddersfield during a season end wobble, with 2 significant injuries to their team, one early during the game itself. I'm not suggesting we have been lucky in those 11 games because in fairness the losing run included many of the top teams, and so it all evens out over the season. I suppose if LJ had been luckier the easier games might have been more spread out and maybe then the losing run would never have happened. But the fact is, having spent £15m and in addition having probably the Championship's best loanee, we wet into the penultimate game not being certain of staying up. Johnson came to us with zero previous achievements and I still cannot get my head around that. Yea bugger us for losing two games in the last 11. Forget that Brentford beat Leeds 2-0 and Derby 4-0 in the weeks after and that Preston were chasing a playoff spot. The LJ out group(and it's a tiny one) can only go to the money spent argument. It was a rough 20-25 game stretch. The man could've went but he didn't. Him having zero achievements means nothing. Tammy came to us with no achievements but don't see anyone saying he shouldn't have started all season. It was a horrible stretch but we've still secured 54 points in the championship and can secure 57. That's not a bad first championship season. Back to the money, most of it was spent on young players for the club to improve. That will only benefit us next season and beyond. The current group have shown they can develop players. Tammy, O'Dowda, Brownhill, Paterson, Bryan and even McCoulskey are all better players now compared to August. To place all blame on LJ is silly. When do Tomlin, GON, Matthews and Golbourne get some blame? 4 players with vast experience and wages who never showed up and didn't lead by example. Tough for any manager to get the beat from a team when 4 players you were counting on don't show up. Then he also had to sell his star striker a week before the deadline. Now im not saying he shouldn't have pressure on him, he should. He's turned it around though and shown he's capable of learning on the job. He got lucky SL is patient and took the extra chance. Everyone has shown up at a job with no achievements at some point in their life but you learn and get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 What's becoming tedious is the daily "told you so post" from those who wanted LJ to be given more time when many of us had lost patience. It was an abysmal season by and large. Few if anyone will look back on it with fondness! The manager lost the faith of a significant number of die hard fans. He'll struggle to win it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, yardy said: Bit harsh that pal, you think LJ is here just for the money? Yes of course. Why do you think he is here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Red Exile said: What's becoming tedious is the daily "told you so post" from those who wanted LJ to be given more time when many of us had lost patience. It was an abysmal season by and large. Few if anyone will look back on it with fondness! The manager lost the faith of a significant number of die hard fans. He'll struggle to win it back. True. The only measure for some (and self selected vindication) is staying up. We're now all wrong because we stayed up apparently. That now appears to be proof to some that LJ is the man. It's not really enough is it. Its not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardy Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Just now, NickJ said: Yes of course. Why do you think he is here? Well i don't think he is here for the money, hasn't he got enough money and houses? He is here because he's City through and through and he can see the massive potential this club has..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 When clubs reach a level at which they feel some of their players are out of their depth, they have no qualms about releasing those players immediately....it has always surprised me that they don't seem to do the same with managers. I advocated replacing Cotts (with our eternal thanks) after the League One winning season because he quite simply isn't a championship manager in my opinion. The ugly word 'agenda' has been wrongly over-used on here this season by those who disagree that LJ should be replaced. I don't believe any supporters have an 'agenda' against him, but there are a fair few on here who have been extremely frustrated that this season has been so awful. Our Head Coach admitted in April that he didn't know what he was doing and we scraped over the survival line with one game to go. Hardly a season and a record to use as a 'told you so' rant at fellow fans who still don't think LJ is the right man to lead a City team in the championship. Of course we are all relieved that we have just about held onto our second tier status - but there weren't many 'told you so' LJ supporters on here after the Brentford and PNE games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, NickJ said: Johnson still out for me and there is no agenda. Those 11 games you mention include lamentable performances against Brentford and Preston following which nearly everyone on here wanted him gone. Difficult to think we would have won yesterday had Brighton not been promoted earlier in the week, 4 of the 5 other wins came against lower half teams at home, while the other, other also at home, seemed to catch Huddersfield during a season end wobble, with 2 significant injuries to their team, one early during the game itself. I'm not suggesting we have been lucky in those 11 games because in fairness the losing run included many of the top teams, and so it all evens out over the season. I suppose if LJ had been luckier the easier games might have been more spread out and maybe then the losing run would never have happened. But the fact is, having spent £15m and in addition having probably the Championship's best loanee, we wet into the penultimate game not being certain of staying up. Johnson came to us with zero previous achievements and I still cannot get my head around that. You made some very convincing reasons to suggest he was unlucky with that losing run, and also credited him with the latest winning run, but prefer to focus on his lack of experience when he was appointed. But that is more of a manifesto of reasons to retain him rather than you 'non-agenda to sack him...very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, yardy said: Well i don't think he is here for the money, hasn't he got enough money and houses? He is here because he's City through and through and he can see the massive potential this club has..... Not while he's here it hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Ben Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, NickJ said: Not while he's here it hasn't. I think it's fine to question LJ's tactics, selections, man management, dodgy beard... whatever. Go for your life. But I don't think it's fair to question his motivation or integrity. I think he's here because he's a motivated and ambitious young coach who wants to achieve personal success in his career as a manager. I don't know why you'd suggest he's only here for the money and I think that's a bit out of order. And on the pressure point, just because he earns a lot more than most of us on here doesn't mean he's immune from pressure. You think the CEO of Apple feels no pressure because he earns a lot of money? Quite the opposite, he gets paid that money to deal with the insane amount of pressure. It's not correct to say that more money = less impacted by pressure. The two are not linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: The LJ out group(and it's a tiny one) can only go to the money spent argument. Him having zero achievements means nothing. Tammy came to us with no achievements but don't see anyone saying he shouldn't have started all season. Then he also had to sell his star striker a week before the deadline. Joe, I've enjoyed debating stuff with you this season, but I've picked out a couple of a points from your post.... Claiming that you know the views and opinions of our entire fanbase doesn't add any strength to your arguments. How do you know the 'LJ out group' is 'tiny' ? I'm pretty sure you haven't canvassed the opinions of roughly 45,000 people so would love to know how you have come to that conclusion. Tammy was 18 when he joined us, of course he had no 'achievements' but he is a player, there are over thirty of those, so calculated gambles can be taken....with one Head Coach you can't afford to take such risks....you can't say 'have a rest son, it's just not working for you at the moment, we're gonna try someone new in your position for the next game..' And I thought it was pretty well known that LJ didn't 'have to sell' Kodjia, the decision was left to him and MA, having said that though, I fully appreciate that JK's head was well and truly turned by the Villa approach and we couldn't have turned down that sort of money. But good luck to Kodjia, he kept us up with loads of goals and moved on giving us a huge profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 56 minutes ago, David Brent said: Did nooo get an agenda Hahahahaha. Brilliant. Especially given your username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 What I know is relief that we are back on for the Europa league four years from now.. Will I have to change me passport post article 51?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, Red Exile said: What's becoming tedious is the daily "told you so post" from those who wanted LJ to be given more time when many of us had lost patience. It was an abysmal season by and large. Few if anyone will look back on it with fondness! The manager lost the faith of a significant number of die hard fans. He'll struggle to win it back. Exactly this for me. Can some explain to me how this season has been anything other than a complete disaster? Staying up was the absolute minimum requirement yet some people are hailing it as a massive cause for celebration. Do we give johnson another year and hope he doesn't **** it up again, or actually get a manager with a history of pushing clubs forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said: So many times over the years I've seen City managers - and LJ was certainly guilty of this on many occasions over this season - pick a team and formation specifically to counter opponents. What went so well under Cotts in our promotion season was that our formation never changed - we just let teams worry about countering us. LJ reverted to 442 and hasn't changed, whether playing Brighton or Blackburn, Huddersfield or Burton. Managers should, IMO always pick a team to play how they want them to play and not be deferential to their opposition. Wise words. When it comes down to it, it's as simple as pick in-form players and play them in their best positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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