AGENDA

[Chivs]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Correct, organised boycotts didn't happen although there were at least a couple of matches where the ACTUAL attendance versus the official one would have been very different. But as others have said he's here now come what may after doing a great job of turning his own mess around. Next season there is no mess to recover so he will be judged on what he does then. If people aren't calling for his head then that's good because we will be doing alright. Lose 16 in 20 like he did this season and he won't get a third chance however much the Benefactor wants him to succeed.

Due to counting ST people as attendant whether they are or not, every game ACTUAL attendance is different from the official one.

I always try to estimate attendance and usual get it nearish. The only time this year when I was way out (massively overestimated) was the Fleetwood game when of course ST tickets are not counted.

Perhaps the SAG should make themselves useful and tell us the real attendance each game. 

[NickJ]

50 minutes ago, Chivs said:

The "LJ out group" is minuscule.  But they do shout really loudly and constantly (though obviously not having an agenda at all).

How do I know this?  I base most of my views on City fans based on Ashton Gate atmospheres.  Simplistic?  Well, I don't think so.  The crowd mentality generally reflects the collective opinions.

So, what has the atmosphere at Ashton Gate been like?  Simply fantastic!  Even during our worse run.  There has barely been any "Johnson out".  The only (very) short period I can recall "Johnson out" was during the Rotherham game which we ironically went on to win.  We have had record attendances during this "awful Johnson out" period.

Perhaps the "Johnson out" few should pipe down and realise they are in a small minority.

 

47 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Again

(And personally I've put my thoughts on LJ on hold and think he deserves a chance to build on the latest upturn)

you are confusing  Support for the team

(And delight / relief at avoiding relegation) with support for LJ

I think you will find many still have concerns of varying degrees but are just happy we've found some form

Why is the golden question

 

22 minutes ago, Chivs said:

I'm not confusing anything.  Do you agree, even during the worst losing streak in our club's history, that Ashton Gate, by a huge majority, were not calling for Johnson's head?

Yet, meanwhile, a few of the usual suspects on here, were bleating on about "boycotts".  That, I might add, did not happen.

 

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You don't get the concept that supporters will virtually always get behind the team in the stadium but still have doubts of varying degrees from minor to complete 

Most supporters wouldn't actually care less if Basil Brush was the manager if the side was delivering decent results

 

8 minutes ago, Chivs said:

Do you have any thoughts on motherhood and apple pie?

And could you answer my question? Do you agree, even during the worst losing streak in our club's history, that Ashton Gate, by a huge majority, were not calling for Johnson's head?

 

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Vocally , no of course not

Maybe you can answer mine 

'Do you accept that not vocally calling for his head at AG does not automatically mean they do not have concerns to varying degrees about him (Some wanting him gone there and then) ?'

You seem to have some idea that everyone who has an opinion vocalises it at AG 

 

Just now, Chivs said:

Do you accept that not calling for him vocally means that people do not want him out?

As to your question, I imagine fans at ManUre have concerns about Mourinho to varying degrees.  What's your point?

@Chivs take me as an example.

I clearly do not think LJ is good enough.

But at the stadium I would never show criticism of the players and the manager, because no matter what we think, it is during the games that the players need our support.

A sizeable number agree and act likewise.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Chivs said:

Due to counting ST people as attendant whether they are or not, every game ACTUAL attendance is different from the official one.

I always try to estimate attendance and usual get it nearish. The only time this year when I was way out (massively overestimated) was the Fleetwood game when of course ST tickets are not counted.

Perhaps the SAG should make themselves useful and tell us the real attendance each game. 

Can't remember the game but there was a midweek game when I reckon the actual was below 15k.... by some margin!!!

[Red Exile]

32 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

As was the months of 'told you so' and 'I knew it was a bad appointment' from the other camp during the bad run - from posters who only ever post on here when the going is bad. 

We're all City fans. Let's draw a line under this season and get away from the 'us vs them' mentality. 

It'd be nice to go into next season with City fans being just City fans, not 'in' or 'out' supporters. 

Agreed. In truth I think the tremendous home support throughout has been testament to the fact that we all want to be supportive of the side, the months of despair were, in my case at least, exactly that...despair! No "told you so", rather "what's going on and why is this guy proving so clueless?...and why's he still here?" The finish to the season has, if anything, deepened the mystery! But onwards and upwards...he's survived, let's hope he's learned something, I'll doubtless be at some Yeovil or Cheltenham or similar for a preseason match as excited as ever by the hope that a new season brings...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I've been reading a few (same predictable people) views that LJ should be replaced over the summer. 

Surely any club that replaced a manager who has just lost only 2 of his last 11 games, winning SIX with 3 draws, would be event more mental than one who doesn't sack their manager after a record run of defeats..?! 

To want LJ out at this moment in time strikes me as nothing more than an agenda and being unable to give credit where it's due it turning things around. 

Do some people really think that we (or any club on the planet) would be correct in replacing a manager who has just taken 21 points from their last 11 games..? 

 

By the same token what about the agenda of people defending a manager who took 16 points from 25 games which is over half of a season, spanning 5 complete months and blaming everybody from the fans, the players, bad luck, referees along the way?.

The bottom line it has nothing to do with what he has done and everything to with what he does between now and next October/December, no more excuses, no more bullshit and please do not make him out to be some sort of tactical genius, there have been a litany of glaringly huge mistakes this season that could have cost the club dearly and there will be no hiding place next season.

[Chivs]

4 minutes ago, NickJ said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Chivs take me as an example.

I clearly do not think LJ is good enough.

But at the stadium I would never show criticism of the players and the manager, because no matter what we think, it is during the games that the players need our support.

A sizeable number agree and act likewise.

That's very mature of you and to your credit for your loyalty to club and players when at AG.

However, are you saying that, unlike every other club in the history of the world,that Bristol City fans all have your maturity and choose not to boo/barrack the manager when they want him out?

Or is it simply that Bristol City fans do not want Johnson out? [Round 11 is approaching by the way...]

[yardy]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He's here because he wants to make a bloody good living at Football Management not some undying love for the football club. Just like the other 91 blokes in the football league....unless he had undying love for Barnsley and Oldham too? Put it another way if he has learned lessons to the extent that he gets us into the Premier League and Arsenal come knocking on his door what do you reckon he will do?

Of course as any young manager LJ is ambitious and if a big club came calling i am sure he would be off, no doubt about it.

My point is that he left Barnsley to come to a club with better potential and a team that he himself states that he loves!

[City Ben]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Of course he's here for the money, as are all footballers and managers, as is the Tesco check out assistant, as is the CEO at Apple, and if you think that's out of order, so be it.

He came here because we offered more than Barnsley, and in the unlikely event that another club offered more money, he'd be off again.

Course he has been under pressure, but to suggest as @yardy did that he is "City through and through", otherwise he would have walked away from a salary he could only otherwise dream of, is just nonsense bordering on cloud cuckoo.

I have not questioned his integrity BTW.

Your comment was he's in it "ONLY" for the money. It's the "only" bit that I took issue with. He needs to earn a wage, as we all do when we go to work. It's hard to have a pop at him for that. 

If your beef is with the absolute level of his pay (I don't know if it is or not), then your argument is with the free market, or potentially Steve Lansdown. It's not with LJ. 

I think he came here as he likes the club, we have more potential than Barnsley, and as a result he can get closer to achieving his goals with us. If he has another chance to take a material step up in his career, I would imagine that he'll be off again. But I don't think it would all be about money.

(By the way I would not suggest that a reason that he is at the club is that he's "City through and through" - sorry @Yardy, he clearly has a soft spot for us but personally I don't think that he'd turn down a potential step up just because of that.)

I mentioned integrity as, in my view, stating that LJ is only here for the money and that he would leave solely for more money - when he has said that he loves the club, is here to build something etc - does call his integrity in to question. Effectively calling him a liar. Maybe that's not what you meant. 

I may have missed something re the ill feeling towards him about money. As my posts might reveal, I don't get where you're coming from on this one at all. 

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Can people please stop using the word "Agenda". 

Nobody has one. They simply have a different opinion. Learn to live with it. 

It's been a massively divisive season - totally normal given the pattern of results. Are you surprised that opinions become polarised? 

Stop trying to place yourself above others. 

You've not read, or not understood my post then. 

Anyone who still adamantly wants LJ replaced, right now, can only hold that opinion by way of an agenda, given our excellent form over the last 11 games. 

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

I feel that they were, in the main, cries from the heart by people despairing at how abysmally our side was performing and the inept response of the leadership at the club. Well, mine were! 

 

Ah right, I see. So "told you so" comments that you agree with are "cries from the heart" but "told you so" comments you don't agree with are "tedious posts". 

I get the picture. Ever considered aiming for objectivity?

[Red Exile]

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

You've not read, or not understood my post then. 

Anyone who still adamantly wants LJ replaced, right now, can only hold that opinion by way of an agenda, given our excellent form over the last 11 games. 

Not really...here's an opinion that suggests LJ should be replaced, right now..."What the club needs to progress is a manager with demonstrable experience of leading a side to the top of the Championship, of proven success at Championship level. Lee Johnson lacks that and whilst he's done a reasonable job there's insufficient evidence to suggest he's got what it takes. Therefore we need a new manager to move things on. And we need him now to start planning for next season." It's not a view I hold myself as it happens, but it wouldn't be evidence of an "agenda"...

 

[ricardob59]

One thing we know now is that LJ remains in charge going into next season..

Personally I don't think he's been the right appt from day one.. But that's SL' style - easy 'we do it my way' apps..

Yes I don't get to many games, so I can be accused of minimal reason to have an argument..

All I would say is that I find it strange that many fans are celebrating avoiding relegation as if it's a trophy 

Thank goodness after many a transfer window & eventually finding a winning solution we survived..

Sad that fans will be split going into 17/18 - But one thing for sure is that if we struggle early doors SL may act earlier - and bring in Millen  to assist young Lee..

Rossler would be my choice.. But for now we sit back & to see what gems MA & LJ have as Transfer targets... 

[JamesBCFC]

57 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

You don't get the concept that supporters will virtually always get behind the team in the stadium but still have doubts of varying degrees from minor to complete 

Most supporters wouldn't actually care less if Basil Brush was the manager if the side was delivering decent results

Having a doubt doesn't equate to wanting someone sacked either.

I had my own doubts, but never called for his head.

[Red Exile]

4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Ah right, I see. So "told you so" comments that you agree with are "cries from the heart" but "told you so" comments you don't agree with are "tedious posts". 

I get the picture. Ever considered aiming for objectivity?

Are opinions about football objective? I'm not sure they are. 

And am I saying that comments I don't agree with are "tedious"?...I'm not. What I find tedious is anyone saying "told you so"...that strikes me as simply argument for the sake of it. Not very interesting tbh, indeed tedious. By contrast there's been some incisive and interesting comment on what's been going wrong, and in defence of LJ...notably from Ole and Spudski...always worth reading that, whether agreed with or not.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Having a doubt doesn't equate to wanting someone sacked either.

I had my own doubts, but never called for his head.

Absolutely Doubts may have varied from nil to complete across the fan base , and did

I had severe doubts , and did

I still have doubts , but they are partially subject to certain questions we will never know the answers of , time will tell us more

[Leveller]

I think "he got us into this mess" (samo II) is open to debate, if you take a longer term view. When he arrived in early 2016 we were virtually bottom and he got us out of a mess, so that we finished, what, 17th?

This season we started well, had a terrible mid season (which nobody is denying or defending) and have had a better finish so that we are likely to end up, what, 17th?

So the mess, over 15 months, amounts to moving up from bottom, or thereabouts, to 17th and repeating that this season. Absolutely no progress this season is the main and justifiable complaint, particularly compared with Leeds, Fulham and Huddersfield. But those locked into "Johnson out" mode need to consider moving on from the mid season trauma.

My view has always been that I'd prefer to stick rather than twist if there is a chance the current manager can establish a track record. That, of course, can't yet be proven either way.

[NickJ]

17 minutes ago, Chivs said:

That's very mature of you and to your credit for your loyalty to club and players when at AG.

However, are you saying that, unlike every other club in the history of the world,that Bristol City fans all have your maturity and choose not to boo/barrack the manager when they want him out?

Or is it simply that Bristol City fans do not want Johnson out? [Round 11 is approaching by the way...]

That's a fair observation.

At Wigan, a small number of very young lads at the back started "Johnson Out" and were quickly shouted down.

I don't though think maturity comes into it to a significant extent. I think most fans, old or young, mature or otherwise, would be very reluctant to  engage in anti-player or anti-manager chants during a game, it just would not feel right unless under extreme circumstances.

At most games, even where we have lost and performed badly, the support has been good during the game and the fans have just melted away afterwards. But despite that many do feel he should have gone.

 

15 minutes ago, City Ben said:

Your comment was he's in it "ONLY" for the money. It's the "only" bit that I took issue with. He needs to earn a wage, as we all do when we go to work. It's hard to have a pop at him for that. 

If your beef is with the absolute level of his pay (I don't know if it is or not), then your argument is with the free market, or potentially Steve Lansdown. It's not with LJ. 

I think he came here as he likes the club, we have more potential than Barnsley, and as a result he can get closer to achieving his goals with us. If he has another chance to take a material step up in his career, I would imagine that he'll be off again. But I don't think it would all be about money.

(By the way I would not suggest that a reason that he is at the club is that he's "City through and through" - sorry @Yardy, he clearly has a soft spot for us but personally I don't think that he'd turn down a potential step up just because of that.)

I mentioned integrity as, in my view, stating that LJ is only here for the money and that he would leave solely for more money - when he has said that he loves the club, is here to build something etc - does call his integrity in to question. Effectively calling him a liar. Maybe that's not what you meant. 

I may have missed something re the ill feeling towards him about money. As my posts might reveal, I don't get where you're coming from on this one at all. 

If you are focusing on the one one word "ONLY" I was loose with my wording and did not mean exactly that, although I did not expect to be taken so literally. Clearly, in choosing employment, you will be influenced by where your family lives, where you are familiar with, working conditions and so on. But in the main, most people will be influenced by money.

I don't believe for one minute that he "loves the club", in the same way that the fans do. It's a glib thing to say IMO. That is not the same as calling him a liar or questioning his integrity.

[City Ben]

Just now, NickJ said:

If you are focusing on the one one word "ONLY" I was loose with my wording and did not mean exactly that, although I did not expect to be taken so literally. Clearly, in choosing employment, you will be influenced by where your family lives, where you are familiar with, working conditions and so on. But in the main, most people will be influenced by money.

I don't believe for one minute that he "loves the club", in the same way that the fans do. It's a glib thing to say IMO. That is not the same as calling him a liar or questioning his integrity.

Well fair enough then, and I do agree with the sentiment. No matter how loyal anyone is, how much "love" they have, it's only natural they'll move on (in any walk of life) if a better opportunity comes along.

[chipdawg]

Young, inexperienced manager in being very inconsistent shocker!

I'm very surprised Johnson survived the dark days, but I don't really see the logic in getting rid of him given what the club stuck by him through. As someone else said, he probably got the city job 2 or 3 years early and he's been a bit out of his depth. What we need to see is that he's learnt some lessons. If he's making the same mistakes next season that he made this, then he needs to go sharpish. If the good LJ starts to out weigh the bad, we'll have a seriously good manager on our hands. If...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

20 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You've not read, or not understood my post then. 

Anyone who still adamantly wants LJ replaced, right now, can only hold that opinion by way of an agenda, given our excellent form over the last 11 games. 

And you cannot ignore the 25 games/5 month/16 point period.

if what you are trying to imply that the last 11 games is the standard that LJ is capable of then of course so is the 25 games/5 month/16 point standard, you cannot have it both ways.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Leveller said:

I think "he got us into this mess" is open to debate, if you take a longer term view. When he arrived in early 2016 we were virtually bottom and he got us out of a mess, so that we finished, what, 17th?

This season we started well, had a terrible mid season (which nobody is denying or defending) and have had a better finish so that we are likely to end up, what, 17th?

So the mess, over 15 months, amounts to moving up from bottom, or thereabouts, to 17th and repeating that this season. Absolutely no progress this season is the main and justifiable complaint, particularly compared with Leeds, Fulham and Huddersfield. But those locked into "Johnson out" mode need to consider moving on from the mid season trauma.

My view has always been that I'd prefer to stick rather than twist if there is a chance the current manager can establish a track record. That, of course, can't yet be proven either way.

A track record of P61 W25 D12 L24 seems pretty decent to me.

That may not include yesterdays game, in which case add one to the 'P' and 'W' columns.

If it includes yesterdays game then his average record would eqauate to a 65.6 point season (round up to 66)

The lowest place team that can reach 66 points this year is 10th.

If it doesn't include last nights game then he averages 66.8 points a season, round up to 67 and that is a minumum of 9th this season.

 

Numbers taken from managerstats.co.uk

[Red Exile]

10 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I think "he got us into this mess" is open to debate, if you take a longer term view. When he arrived in early 2016 we were virtually bottom and he got us out of a mess, so that we finished, what, 17th?

This season we started well, had a terrible mid season (which nobody is denying or defending) and have had a better finish so that we are likely to end up, what, 17th?

So the mess, over 15 months, amounts to moving up from bottom, or thereabouts, to 17th and repeating that this season. Absolutely no progress this season is the main and justifiable complaint, particularly compared with Leeds, Fulham and Huddersfield. But those locked into "Johnson out" mode need to consider moving on from the mid season trauma.

My view has always been that I'd prefer to stick rather than twist if there is a chance the current manager can establish a track record. That, of course, can't yet be proven either way.

All very fair points.

Your last observation gets to the heart of the whole split in opinion, I'd say. Namely, does one think that the current manager can establish a track record, or not? With hindsight we'll know the answer, but for much of this season I looked at him on the touchline, or listened to him after matches and thought I saw and heard a chap to whom things were happening, not someone making them happen. I still feel like that. Might he turn out to be just what we need? Only time will tell. If I'm proven wrong I won't mind in the least.

[Leveller]

17 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Are opinions about football objective? I'm not sure they are. 

And am I saying that comments I don't agree with are "tedious"?...I'm not. What I find tedious is anyone saying "told you so"...that strikes me as simply argument for the sake of it. Not very interesting tbh, indeed tedious. By contrast there's been some incisive and interesting comment on what's been going wrong, and in defence of LJ...notably from Ole and Spudski...always worth reading that, whether agreed with or not.

But were there actually any posts that said "told you so" without any other discussion, or have you just characterised them that way because you disagree with them? My feeling is that the "Johnson out" posts have been in general more toxic, personally unpleasant and so on, than those disagreeing.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, kiwicolin said:

Yes he has made mistakes but we would rather have him, than having a manager , that's been sacked before and making the same mistakes before..

You can't talk on behalf of everyone, not everyone agrees with you...

[samo II]

15 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I think "he got us into this mess" (samo II) is open to debate, if you take a longer term view. When he arrived in early 2016 we were virtually bottom and he got us out of a mess, so that we finished, what, 17th?

This season we started well, had a terrible mid season (which nobody is denying or defending) and have had a better finish so that we are likely to end up, what, 17th?

So the mess, over 15 months, amounts to moving up from bottom, or thereabouts, to 17th and repeating that this season. Absolutely no progress this season is the main and justifiable complaint, particularly compared with Leeds, Fulham and Huddersfield. But those locked into "Johnson out" mode need to consider moving on from the mid season trauma.

My view has always been that I'd prefer to stick rather than twist if there is a chance the current manager can establish a track record. That, of course, can't yet be proven either way.

While I don't quite subscribe to the idea he turned us from dead in the water to safe last year (we'd done a fair amount of sovel-work on stopping the Tory by the Ipswich match), I don't think you're wrong, and maybe I'm being overly hard on him.

I do think LJ and coaching team will (or at least should) have learned a lot this season, and I cannot deny that since Pembo left and Macca came in, we have improved immensely, and while this may be coincidence (and is no slight on Pembo who I'll be forever grateful to as a fan), so this has me hoping that we have turned a corner, and can move on from here.

I do think that as a fan base we are right to be slightly sceptical of LJ still; the boom/bust nature of our form isn't something that in a division as tough as this will allow for progress - I joked yesterday I want to see us play like we have against Brighton every week next year, but I do think we'll have to apply the same skill and determination game by game is we want to move forward. 

End of the day; LJ is here, is going nowhere and we just have to hope SL's faith and patience is rewarded - because if he does, it will be good for the club, which is all that matters.

[054123]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yea bugger us for losing two games in the last 11. Forget that Brentford beat Leeds 2-0 and Derby 4-0 in the weeks after and that Preston were chasing a playoff spot. 

The LJ out group(and it's a tiny one) can only go to the money spent argument. It was a rough 20-25 game stretch. The man could've went but he didn't. Him having zero achievements means nothing. Tammy came to us with no achievements but don't see anyone saying he shouldn't have started all season. It was a horrible stretch but we've still secured 54 points in the championship and can secure 57. That's not a bad first championship season.

Back to the money, most of it was spent on young players for the club to improve. That will only benefit us next season and beyond. The current group have shown they can develop players. Tammy, O'Dowda, Brownhill, Paterson, Bryan and even McCoulskey are all better players now compared to August. To place all blame on LJ is silly. When do Tomlin, GON, Matthews and Golbourne get some blame? 4 players with vast experience and wages who never showed up and didn't lead by example. Tough for any manager to get the beat from a team when 4 players you were counting on don't show up. Then he also had to sell his star striker a week before the deadline. 

Now im not saying he shouldn't have pressure on him, he should. He's turned it around though and shown he's capable of learning on the job. He got lucky SL is patient and took the extra chance. Everyone has shown up at a job with no achievements at some point in their life but you learn and get better. 

What a dire season. Let's hope next season is better or we'll be battle relegation again.

[Dorset_Cider]

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Any new manager we'd brought in would be hailed as a genius if they were to have achieved the same turnaround. In the last ten games we've lost less than Newcastle and Brighton. 

As someonce said, it's a funny old game . . . 

What about the rest of the season?

The man....... is 'Not' a genius.

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Leveller said:

But were there actually any posts that said "told you so" without any other discussion, or have you just characterised them that way because you disagree with them? My feeling is that the "Johnson out" posts have been in general more toxic, personally unpleasant and so on, than those disagreeing.

Well, all I can say is that how we see these things must relate to our starting positions, because from my perspective the forum was for months full of posters who offered no persuasive argument whatsoever, absolutely none, for their support of LJ but appeared, to me, to be revelling in winding up people despairing at where he was taking us. 

Clearly you saw it differently! That's probably the delight of OTIB, but hopefully that's all in the past...for at least 6 months...and we can move on to transfer rumours...

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

Johnson still out for me and there is no agenda.

Those 11 games you mention include lamentable performances against Brentford and Preston following which nearly everyone on here wanted him gone.

Difficult to think we would have won yesterday had Brighton not been promoted earlier in the week, 4 of the 5 other wins came against lower half teams at home, while the other, other also at home, seemed to catch Huddersfield during a season end wobble, with 2 significant injuries to their team, one early during the game itself.

I'm not suggesting we have been lucky in those 11 games because in fairness the losing run included many of the top teams, and so it all evens out over the season. I suppose if LJ had been luckier the easier games might have been more spread out and maybe then the losing run would never have happened.

But the fact is, having spent £15m and in addition having probably the Championship's best loanee, we wet into the penultimate game not being certain of staying up.

Johnson came to us with zero previous achievements and I still cannot get my head around that.

I think you've probably managed to prove the case against yourself .

LJ may have been the right appointment at the wrong time. And he might only be here through the pig-headedness of the owner. But he done enough for 'nearly everyone' to conceed that he deserves another year in the job (which he will get whether anyone likes it or not).

Expectations may be lowered next year, and how we do will be influenced by how we fill our obvious weak positions (main striker, right back - other opinions available). But I'm still dreaming of a Championship win 2017/18 and I'll be sticking my fiver on us regardless of whether I get better odds than the 12-1 I got for this season.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Sleepy1968 said:

I think you've probably managed to prove the case against yourself .

LJ may have been the right appointment at the wrong time. And he might only be here through the pig-headedness of the owner.

But he done enough for 'nearly everyone' to conceed that he deserves another year in the job (which he will get whether anyone likes it or not).

Expectations may be lowered next year, and how we do will be influenced by how we fill our obvious weak positions (main striker, right back - other opinions available). But I'm still dreaming of a Championship win 2017/18 and I'll be sticking my fiver on us regardless of whether I get better odds than the 12-1 I got for this season.

 

Think there's plenty that wouldn't agree with that at all

Fully prepared to give him a chance but another year regardless of results - no chance