Thousands of new fans, a positive future

[ashton_fan]

So our average home gate was 19,256 our highest since 1979/80 in Div 1. It just shows how whatever some people say on here more people want to watch BCFC than ever, we finished 11th in the table of attendances ahead of some big names like Fulham, Birmingham, Reading and Ipswich. All this in a season when we've struggled, it demonstrates the potential of our club. It will be interesting to see the club's accounts for this season, we'll probably still make a loss but I'm guessing it will be a lot less than previous seasons. 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

It will be interesting to see the club's accounts for this season, we'll probably still make a loss but I'm guessing it will be a lot less than previous seasons. 

Does the matchday admission actually make that much of an impact on our profit / loss?

[BRISTOL86]

I'm guessing matchday revenue is a surprisingly small amount of total. But more bums on seats is always a good thing. If we were competing at the right end and pricing is right we would easily get 25k a week. 

[Fordy62]

Just now, phantom said:

Does the matchday admission actually make that much of an impact on our profit / loss?

It must do musnt it? I can't imagine the number of stewards fluctuates massively dependent upon crowd size. Nor really the  number of staff employed. And given that two tickets probably pays for a member of staff, you'd think there's some good money made with the extra attendance. 

However, with the expenditure on wages - especially this year with the likes of Hegeler, Tomlin, O'Neil, I suspect the increased Gate is just a drop in the ocean. 

[cidered abroad]

I was intending this morning, to enter a new thread entitled "Wasted Opportunities" which while highlighting them, it was not intended as a negative post. So having seen this one, I'll use it and not create another.

Let's start with a response to Ashton Fan's initial post. It is of course, very pleasing that our average home gate has increased from 15,292 (2015-6) to 19,256, a 26% increase.

But how much of this is due to home support or the fact that we allowed more than a thousand more away fans into the Atyeo than in the previous season? Stats on that anyone?

Perhaps it is more relevant to look at Season Tickets sold and in which games did we get over 20,000.

We sold, reputedly, just over 14,000 ST's. But the first "Wasted Opportunity" is that because of a five month, 22 game utterly dismal run, our "Early Bird" sale is only 85% of what it was at the same time last season. I don't know the average ST price but let us assume that it is the adult cost of a South Stand seat at £350. That is a reduction of £750,000! Will those "lost" ST holders return or not?

Now to examine home attendances over 20,000. Villa and Newcastle were always going to be nailed on big gates. Reading (20,074) Wolves (20323) are over 20,00 because of the away support.

That leaves Blackburn and Birmingham. Significant match day price reductions for Blackburn, the same for Birmingham with the addition of a possibility that it could be a "win and stay up or lose and go down" game.

The point I'm making is that this was our "New Stadium" season when we should have really benefitted from "New Stadium" bounce. One wonders if we would have sold 18,000 ST's if the prices had been shaved by 5%. But recouped by what is spent on food and drink on a matchday at the ground. We'll never know because that opportunity is gone forever.

The playing side of the club is another "Wasted Opportunity". Most supporters would have happily settled for a mid table consolidation at this level. The signs were there until mid October. What went wrong, we'll never know because football clubs are not like M&S or Tesco who will analyse results and publish findings like "We sold less because ......" All we have had or will get is smoke screens and so on. But it is clear from some of the games, Huddersfield at home and Fulham and Brighton away, that when we set our minds to it, we are without doubt, good enough to be looking up at the top, rather than looking downwards at Rotherham and Wigan. With no disrespect to these or any other clubs, we are better financed, more stable and should not be down there. Senior management, players and coaches are all responsible for the shambles that existed from October until March.

A stable mid table position in January, February would have allowed the club to introduce the more promising Under 23 Academy players into the first team squad. Ten minutes away at Villa, half an hour at home to Burton, on the bench to see how different it is compared with reserve team football. What a "Wasted Opportunity" for the club and those who are being developed as the bedrock of our future. We could hardly complain if a very promising youngster of 18 or 18 years, decided not to accept another contract and found himself another club, who would give him chances to progress.

And to my final point. On Sunday, we had managed to get a home attendance of around 23,000 with lots of young children up in the top deck of the Lansdown Stand. I expect many of the very young ones were a bit blown away by the noise and atmosphere of a large crowd. (Not atmosphere as in singing/chanting/cheering. Just a lot of people) 

But how many of the adults and older children will be desperately keen to come back after that dismal performance. One shot on target. The majority of our players should have taken a deckchair on to the pitch with them. Tactics were again, to contain the opposition and then go flat out for the winner in the last twenty minutes. Pity the Brummies messed that up by scoring a goal early on and then producing an international quality performance of time wasting that exceeded the worst I've seen for a long time. Even if we had lost, if we had played with some more enthusiasm and flowing football instead of lethargic hoofball, many of them might have been clamouring to come back again early next season. And if I was SL, I would have placed a rocket under Ashton and Johnson that would have taken thim into orbit for their part in yet another "Wasted Opportunity".

So I really hope that SL and his senior management (the suits as many refer to them) do consider what can be done, to get this club to be so much more professional in it's outlook and operations. Off and on the field. To convey to everyone in the club, staff and players, that they must "sell the club" to the Bristol public, the fans and the supporters. the bigger the attendances, the better it will be for all. A club that gives 100% in effort off and on the field will get it back in bucketloads. One that goes through the motions like last Sunday will never achieve what it is aiming for. The choice for the Club is clear. Settle for a club that bounces between tiers two and three or one that wants to go places. 

At the moment, it looks too much like the Bristol City I've known all my life. One good year in ten! And I'm running out of time. The DWP are already praying for my early demise to use my pension for someone younger.

Roll on August.

 

 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I'm guessing matchday revenue is a surprisingly small amount of total. But more bums on seats is always a good thing. If we were competing at the right end and pricing is right we would easily get 25k a week. 

I think we all might be surprised at that.

Cheap products with high mark up and being served by young people on minimum wage in part time employment.

[View from the Dolman]

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

But how much of this is due to home support or the fact that we allowed more than a thousand more away fans into the Atyeo than in the previous season? Stats on that anyone?

Based on the Away Days stats pages on bcfc.co.uk for League games only...

15/16 away following average at Ashton Gate: 1038 (total away attendance: 23882)

16/17 away following average at Ashton Gate: 1370 (total away attendance: 31502)

So the 332 increase in average away following accounts for 8.38% of the overall average attendance increase of 3964.

[Ska Junkie]

Given the fully open facilities and the fans village (I assume they pay for the privilege?) I would really like to see the non ticket match day figures in comparison to our last season without all the bars and drink / food counters / lounges / executive boxes. Given the number of people milling around both inside and outside the stadium 2 hours before kick off ,plus all the corporate stuff, the figures must be very high in comparison to when we didn't have all these facilities?

[cidered abroad]

19 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Based on the Away Days stats pages on bcfc.co.uk for League games only...

15/16 away following average at Ashton Gate: 1038 (total away attendance: 23882)

16/17 away following average at Ashton Gate: 1370 (total away attendance: 31502)

So the 332 increase in average away following accounts for 8.38% of the overall average attendance increase of 3964.

Thanks for that. I'm a little surprised it's as low as that. But should I be when only the same Championship clubs fill it each season like Wolves, Reading, Brum, Cardiff plus the big relegated clubs. 

[Robbored]

Having a spanking newly redeveloped AG as made a huge difference to attendences. The external activities like the stage are fantastic additions and the concourse is well supplied with different outlets.

The matchday  experience these days is far better than it was just 2 years ago. 

I really like not having to stand in other people's piss when I use the urinals.........

[BRISTOL86]

49 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I think we all might be surprised at that.

Cheap products with high mark up and being served by young people on minimum wage in part time employment.

I meant as a total % of the revenue of a football club, I expect 'normal matchday' is relatively small compared to things like TV money, hospitality, corporate events etc. 

[cidered abroad]

21 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Having a spanking newly redeveloped AG as made a huge difference to attendences. The external activities like the stage are fantastic additions and the concourse is well supplied with different outlets.

The matchday  experience these days is far better than it was just 2 years ago. 

I really like not having to stand in other people's piss when I use the urinals.........

Depends on what you call huge. Weve gone from 14,000 average home in 2015-6 to 18,000 this season. It's good but not huge. Huge would have been a 24,000 average.

 Concentrate on what could have been done and could NOW be don, to make that increase bigger rather than trying to score points off me. I wasn't trying to be negative but pointing out where we let ourselves down by not doing better.

What would it have been if we'd shaved ST prices by 5% and if the Head Coach and/or players had not gone AWOL for five months?

[Mr Popodopolous]

To me the new stadium has accelerated a long term trend. Last 20 years we have absolutely been growing the fanbase- even in League One we averaged more in general than in past times in League One. It's all positive and it will be interesting to see how many come back. I took someone (who isn't even a City fan) to a game Sunday and despite the result he was quite impressed with the stadium, the occasion- he may well be back for a few games next season.

In more medium to long term, obviously the improvements on the pitch have been a key factor, more have stayed on. Opening up the East End to home fans again probably helped as well, that atmosphere, that feel, relaxed attitude to standing and language.

I am reasonably optimistic for the fanbase in the longrun though would be surprised if we hit 19k again. (Though on the flipside if we get a fair few big away followings that may push up the total numbers)?

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/bric.htm

It's not a perfect linear graph type thing but definitely it has been grown in 20 years or so.

@cidered abroad It is a rise of about 25% maybe a bit more...that's exceptional by any measure in one year. I know some is due to novelty of new ground but by any measure in one year it's exceptional.

Another interesting one- again highlighting the medium to long run gains- measured over a 5 year period from 2011-12 to last season.

http://www.efl.com/documents/efl-attendance-report-attendance-change-season-2015-16549-3547212.pdf

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

. And if I was SL, I would have placed a rocket under Ashton and Johnson that would have taken thim into orbit for their part in yet another "Wasted Opportunity".

So I really hope that SL and his senior management (the suits as many refer to them) do consider what can be done, to get this club to be so much more professional in it's outlook and operations. Off and on the field. T

 

Ashton is the COO of the Football Club (I think) so he is on the receiving end of a rocket as well as dishing one out. Progress is progress though and Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc Off the field, in particular, we are light years ahead of where we were a few years ago, mostly. 

[cidered abroad]

38 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Cidered abroad could have taken negativry to a new level. I imagine you are a spin doctor and I would hate to be a Corbynite if you were looking at labour policies!!

You could write a post three times as long on the subjects you raise if you wanted to be positive.

I tried to highlight where we are still operating like a local amateur club instead of a multi million £ modern business. The coach and players, for instance,while they do their best in a match(?) seem to be totally unaware that they are selling something that the public wants but that the product quality is not consistently good. I know we aren't M&S but not that different surely.

And I do not pretend to know all or any of the answers That's why I posted to give all of you, a chance to give me and the club the answers.

[Cov 77]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I was intending this morning, to enter a new thread entitled "Wasted Opportunities" which while highlighting them, it was not intended as a negative post. So having seen this one, I'll use it and not create another.

Let's start with a response to Ashton Fan's initial post. It is of course, very pleasing that our average home gate has increased from 15,292 (2015-6) to 19,256, a 26% increase.

But how much of this is due to home support or the fact that we allowed more than a thousand more away fans into the Atyeo than in the previous season? Stats on that anyone?

Perhaps it is more relevant to look at Season Tickets sold and in which games did we get over 20,000.

We sold, reputedly, just over 14,000 ST's. But the first "Wasted Opportunity" is that because of a five month, 22 game utterly dismal run, our "Early Bird" sale is only 85% of what it was at the same time last season. I don't know the average ST price but let us assume that it is the adult cost of a South Stand seat at £350. That is a reduction of £750,000! Will those "lost" ST holders return or not?

Now to examine home attendances over 20,000. Villa and Newcastle were always going to be nailed on big gates. Reading (20,074) Wolves (20323) are over 20,00 because of the away support.

That leaves Blackburn and Birmingham. Significant match day price reductions for Blackburn, the same for Birmingham with the addition of a possibility that it could be a "win and stay up or lose and go down" game.

The point I'm making is that this was our "New Stadium" season when we should have really benefitted from "New Stadium" bounce. One wonders if we would have sold 18,000 ST's if the prices had been shaved by 5%. But recouped by what is spent on food and drink on a matchday at the ground. We'll never know because that opportunity is gone forever.

The playing side of the club is another "Wasted Opportunity". Most supporters would have happily settled for a mid table consolidation at this level. The signs were there until mid October. What went wrong, we'll never know because football clubs are not like M&S or Tesco who will analyse results and publish findings like "We sold less because ......" All we have had or will get is smoke screens and so on. But it is clear from some of the games, Huddersfield at home and Fulham and Brighton away, that when we set our minds to it, we are without doubt, good enough to be looking up at the top, rather than looking downwards at Rotherham and Wigan. With no disrespect to these or any other clubs, we are better financed, more stable and should not be down there. Senior management, players and coaches are all responsible for the shambles that existed from October until March.

A stable mid table position in January, February would have allowed the club to introduce the more promising Under 23 Academy players into the first team squad. Ten minutes away at Villa, half an hour at home to Burton, on the bench to see how different it is compared with reserve team football. What a "Wasted Opportunity" for the club and those who are being developed as the bedrock of our future. We could hardly complain if a very promising youngster of 18 or 18 years, decided not to accept another contract and found himself another club, who would give him chances to progress.

And to my final point. On Sunday, we had managed to get a home attendance of around 23,000 with lots of young children up in the top deck of the Lansdown Stand. I expect many of the very young ones were a bit blown away by the noise and atmosphere of a large crowd. (Not atmosphere as in singing/chanting/cheering. Just a lot of people) 

But how many of the adults and older children will be desperately keen to come back after that dismal performance. One shot on target. The majority of our players should have taken a deckchair on to the pitch with them. Tactics were again, to contain the opposition and then go flat out for the winner in the last twenty minutes. Pity the Brummies messed that up by scoring a goal early on and then producing an international quality performance of time wasting that exceeded the worst I've seen for a long time. Even if we had lost, if we had played with some more enthusiasm and flowing football instead of lethargic hoofball, many of them might have been clamouring to come back again early next season. And if I was SL, I would have placed a rocket under Ashton and Johnson that would have taken thim into orbit for their part in yet another "Wasted Opportunity".

So I really hope that SL and his senior management (the suits as many refer to them) do consider what can be done, to get this club to be so much more professional in it's outlook and operations. Off and on the field. To convey to everyone in the club, staff and players, that they must "sell the club" to the Bristol public, the fans and the supporters. the bigger the attendances, the better it will be for all. A club that gives 100% in effort off and on the field will get it back in bucketloads. One that goes through the motions like last Sunday will never achieve what it is aiming for. The choice for the Club is clear. Settle for a club that bounces between tiers two and three or one that wants to go places. 

At the moment, it looks too much like the Bristol City I've known all my life. One good year in ten! And I'm running out of time. The DWP are already praying for my early demise to use my pension for someone younger.

Roll on August.

 

 

I'm glad it wasn't intended as a negative post 

[ashton_fan]

6 hours ago, phantom said:

Does the matchday admission actually make that much of an impact on our profit / loss?

Steve L reckoned with the stadium completion it should generate an extra £7m in matchday revenues. Under FFP we are allowed to lose £39m over 3 seasons, last season we lost £13.2M and in our last League 1 season we lost £9.5M. This season we have a much larger squad but he extra revenue should mean we come in at about £9M loss which would be well withing the FFP rules (I'm assuming on transfers our incomings and outgoings were about equal), so the extra matchday revenue should make a big difference. For teams in the Prem it's almost irrelevant with the TV income at over £100m per club but Championship clubs still rely on matchdays for the majority of their income I believe.

[Guest redandy1]

7 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

So our average home gate was 19,256 our highest since 1979/80 in Div 1. It just shows how whatever some people say on here more people want to watch BCFC than ever, we finished 11th in the table of attendances ahead of some big names like Fulham, Birmingham, Reading and Ipswich. All this in a season when we've struggled, it demonstrates the potential of our club. It will be interesting to see the club's accounts for this season, we'll probably still make a loss but I'm guessing it will be a lot less than previous seasons. 

As long as we don't struggle  again next season.

[Spoons]

Matchday takings must be up massively. Bigger crowds, massive hospitality crowds in now.

Sure I've seen m.kelly say that the amount of people using the stadium on matchdays are up massively . Seems loads of people eating or drinking that didn't in the old Ashton gate.

[hantsred]

4 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I meant as a total % of the revenue of a football club, I expect 'normal matchday' is relatively small compared to things like TV money, hospitality, corporate events etc. 

Last submitted accounts (end May 2016 http://www.bcfc.co.uk/club/annualaccounts.aspx), page 15, show matchday revenue and season tickets entries combined are 3.8 mil out of a turnover of 10.3 mil so not insignificant. A not unreasonable increase of say 25-30% for this years accounts would raise this to close to 5 mil. Add to this a net income in the millions from transfers last summer, a league cup run and corporate boxes, and I would say we should be very close to net positive. There will be some offset against the stadium work between May and August 2016.

[ChippenhamRed]

6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

We sold, reputedly, just over 14,000 ST's. But the first "Wasted Opportunity" is that because of a five month, 22 game utterly dismal run, our "Early Bird" sale is only 85% of what it was at the same time last season. I don't know the average ST price but let us assume that it is the adult cost of a South Stand seat at £350. That is a reduction of £750,000! Will those "lost" ST holders return or not?

Early bird sales were 95% compared to the same stage last season, not 85%.  So the reduction is far less than you are claiming.

http://mobile.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/season-card-sales-reach-11500-3692621.aspx

[Mad Cyril]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

 

I really like not having to stand in other people's piss when I use the urinals.........

So it is only your posts that take the piss? Ah that is a relief...

[Kodjias Wrist]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

The matchday  experience these days is far better than it was just 2 years ago. 

I really like not having to stand in other people's piss when I use the urinals.........

It's also a great viewing experience. I hated the williams because of the steel beams in the way. When we had Adomah and Murray bombing up the flank It was annoying.

[downendcity]

46 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Or someone could ask for all the areas that are vastly better than 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 yrs ago and also better than most Championship clubs but that would take far too long and isntthemoaning which this forum attracts

 At least this forum allows the club to puck up the minor improvements still possible.

Love this club and some most of those who support it!!

That's better!

[WhistleHappy]

5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

...

....I know we aren't M&S but not that different surely.....

 

Not M&S but you're right, 'initially'  not too different....

Years of supporting City (or any other football club for that matter) tends to inevitably turn most fans into S&M agony and ecstasy junkies..

It hurts so good 'sometimes' .. not often but sometimes we get a real buzz of a hit out of it and it is that unique buzz that is so bloody addictive.

[robinreliant]

7 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I was intending this morning, to enter a new thread entitled "Wasted Opportunities" which while highlighting them, it was not intended as a negative post. So having seen this one, I'll use it and not create another.

Let's start with a response to Ashton Fan's initial post. It is of course, very pleasing that our average home gate has increased from 15,292 (2015-6) to 19,256, a 26% increase.

But how much of this is due to home support or the fact that we allowed more than a thousand more away fans into the Atyeo than in the previous season? Stats on that anyone?

Perhaps it is more relevant to look at Season Tickets sold and in which games did we get over 20,000.

We sold, reputedly, just over 14,000 ST's. But the first "Wasted Opportunity" is that because of a five month, 22 game utterly dismal run, our "Early Bird" sale is only 85% of what it was at the same time last season. I don't know the average ST price but let us assume that it is the adult cost of a South Stand seat at £350. That is a reduction of £750,000! Will those "lost" ST holders return or not?

Now to examine home attendances over 20,000. Villa and Newcastle were always going to be nailed on big gates. Reading (20,074) Wolves (20323) are over 20,00 because of the away support.

That leaves Blackburn and Birmingham. Significant match day price reductions for Blackburn, the same for Birmingham with the addition of a possibility that it could be a "win and stay up or lose and go down" game.

The point I'm making is that this was our "New Stadium" season when we should have really benefitted from "New Stadium" bounce. One wonders if we would have sold 18,000 ST's if the prices had been shaved by 5%. But recouped by what is spent on food and drink on a matchday at the ground. We'll never know because that opportunity is gone forever.

The playing side of the club is another "Wasted Opportunity". Most supporters would have happily settled for a mid table consolidation at this level. The signs were there until mid October. What went wrong, we'll never know because football clubs are not like M&S or Tesco who will analyse results and publish findings like "We sold less because ......" All we have had or will get is smoke screens and so on. But it is clear from some of the games, Huddersfield at home and Fulham and Brighton away, that when we set our minds to it, we are without doubt, good enough to be looking up at the top, rather than looking downwards at Rotherham and Wigan. With no disrespect to these or any other clubs, we are better financed, more stable and should not be down there. Senior management, players and coaches are all responsible for the shambles that existed from October until March.

A stable mid table position in January, February would have allowed the club to introduce the more promising Under 23 Academy players into the first team squad. Ten minutes away at Villa, half an hour at home to Burton, on the bench to see how different it is compared with reserve team football. What a "Wasted Opportunity" for the club and those who are being developed as the bedrock of our future. We could hardly complain if a very promising youngster of 18 or 18 years, decided not to accept another contract and found himself another club, who would give him chances to progress.

And to my final point. On Sunday, we had managed to get a home attendance of around 23,000 with lots of young children up in the top deck of the Lansdown Stand. I expect many of the very young ones were a bit blown away by the noise and atmosphere of a large crowd. (Not atmosphere as in singing/chanting/cheering. Just a lot of people) 

But how many of the adults and older children will be desperately keen to come back after that dismal performance. One shot on target. The majority of our players should have taken a deckchair on to the pitch with them. Tactics were again, to contain the opposition and then go flat out for the winner in the last twenty minutes. Pity the Brummies messed that up by scoring a goal early on and then producing an international quality performance of time wasting that exceeded the worst I've seen for a long time. Even if we had lost, if we had played with some more enthusiasm and flowing football instead of lethargic hoofball, many of them might have been clamouring to come back again early next season. And if I was SL, I would have placed a rocket under Ashton and Johnson that would have taken thim into orbit for their part in yet another "Wasted Opportunity".

So I really hope that SL and his senior management (the suits as many refer to them) do consider what can be done, to get this club to be so much more professional in it's outlook and operations. Off and on the field. To convey to everyone in the club, staff and players, that they must "sell the club" to the Bristol public, the fans and the supporters. the bigger the attendances, the better it will be for all. A club that gives 100% in effort off and on the field will get it back in bucketloads. One that goes through the motions like last Sunday will never achieve what it is aiming for. The choice for the Club is clear. Settle for a club that bounces between tiers two and three or one that wants to go places. 

At the moment, it looks too much like the Bristol City I've known all my life. One good year in ten! And I'm running out of time. The DWP are already praying for my early demise to use my pension for someone younger.

Roll on August.

 

 

Many of us fans would like to put a rocket under Ashton and Johnson after that performance on Sunday. None of the players came through with any credit. And as for the last sentence I'm in the same boat mate. My times running out to and my patience did a long time ago. I'm still a supporter but I look at the ground it's new facilities which are all very well and good but is it still the City I supported when I was a boy ? No it's not and I'm finding it very difficult to bridge that gap between then and now.

Ahhh I feel better now I've got that off my chest. Like you say roll on August.

[cidered abroad]

Just now, robinreliant said:

Many of us fans would like to put a rocket under Ashton and Johnson after that performance on Sunday. None of the players came through with any credit. And as for the last sentence I'm in the same boat mate. My times running out to and my patience did a long time ago. I'm still a supporter but I look at the ground it's new facilities which are all very well and good but is it still the City I supported when I was a boy ? No it's not and I'm finding it very difficult to bridge that gap between then and now.

Ahhh I feel better now I've got that off my chest. Like you say roll on August.

It cannot be the same as when we started but I still get the buzz starting a day before a game. Or at least I did until it went tits up for five months. Somehow we dragged ourselves out of the brown stuff in time to stay up. I like the new stadium very much although it bears nil resemblance to AG in 1950. At least I can find a toilet at half time and not have pee soaking my leather soles for 90 minutes on a windswept terrace.

[ChippenhamRed]

57 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I stopped reading this when you put the reduction on early bird sales purely down to the bad run.

We went on a worse run last season. Someone put the numbers on another thread but it was roughly this- Cotterill 26 games 4 wins. Johnsons bad run: 26 games 5 wins.

Also, I am one of those who got an early bird ST last year but am not this time and it has absolutely nothing to do with results this season.

@cidered abroad has also got his facts completely wrong - sales are down 5%, not 15%, a far less significant difference that can be explained by many reasons, including natural variation, no new stadium novelty factor, and the fact that our Championship status had only just been secured. Not just poor results.

[BRISTOL86]

2 hours ago, hantsred said:

Last submitted accounts (end May 2016 http://www.bcfc.co.uk/club/annualaccounts.aspx), page 15, show matchday revenue and season tickets entries combined are 3.8 mil out of a turnover of 10.3 mil so not insignificant. A not unreasonable increase of say 25-30% for this years accounts would raise this to close to 5 mil. Add to this a net income in the millions from transfers last summer, a league cup run and corporate boxes, and I would say we should be very close to net positive. There will be some offset against the stadium work between May and August 2016.

Not insignificant no but it means that only around 1/3 of our income was earned because of football matches. I'm guessing the next accounts will see that be an even lower percentage - since completion of the stadium we must be making much more out of corporate type events and so on. 

[pillred]

8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Depends on what you call huge. Weve gone from 14,000 average home in 2015-6 to 18,000 this season. It's good but not huge. Huge would have been a 24,000 average.

 Concentrate on what could have been done and could NOW be don, to make that increase bigger rather than trying to score points off me. I wasn't trying to be negative but pointing out where we let ourselves down by not doing better.

What would it have been if we'd shaved ST prices by 5% and if the Head Coach and/or players had not gone AWOL for five months?

19256 average this season.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

I stopped reading this when you put the reduction on early bird sales purely down to the bad run.

We went on a worse run last season. Someone put the numbers on another thread but it was roughly this- Cotterill 26 games 4 wins. Johnsons bad run: 26 games 5 wins.

Also, I am one of those who got an early bird ST last year but am not this time and it has absolutely nothing to do with results this season.

also he said we had around 23,000 sunday when it was well over 25,000.

[dunsteral]

He actually said we had 23000 HOME supporters, the 25000 included the away fans.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

22 minutes ago, pillred said:

also he said we had around 23,000 sunday when it was well over 25,000.

He meant 23,000 home fans.

 

[cidered abroad]

24 minutes ago, pillred said:

19256 average this season.

1,300 of the average are the away fans. Hence the reference to 18,000.

So I got a statistic wrong? 85% or 95%. Why is it not 105%?

Johnsons dreadful run isn't worse than Cotterills. But do we have to have this every season? We had one good year in League One with Cotts but every other year since 2010 has been spent fighting relegation. Some on here appear to be content with that. I'm not.

An average gate of over 19,000 is very good but think what it would have been if we had continued gathering points like the first eleven games and flirting with play offs instead.

[ChippenhamRed]

11 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

1,300 of the average are the away fans. Hence the reference to 18,000.

So I got a statistic wrong? 85% or 95%. Why is it not 105%?

Johnsons dreadful run isn't worse than Cotterills. But do we have to have this every season? We had one good year in League One with Cotts but every other year since 2010 has been spent fighting relegation. Some on here appear to be content with that. I'm not.

An average gate of over 19,000 is very good but think what it would have been if we had continued gathering points like the first eleven games and flirting with play offs instead.

I'm not sure what your point is. Who has said they are content with that?

It's fairly obvious why the figure is not 105% - we've had a poor season, and the new stadium novelty factor is less of a pull second time around. The Birmingham attendance pretty effectively put to bed the suggestion that people are "staying away" - a tiny number if so.

I think most accept that 95% is a very good effort under the circumstances, and 2-3% of that could be explained by natural variation in the numbers year-on-year, unrelated to events at the club. 85% would suggest a more significant drop-off in support, which appeared to be the thrust of your argument. Hence it needed to be pointed out that you got it wrong.

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, phantom said:

Does the matchday admission actually make that much of an impact on our profit / loss?

 

5 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Steve L reckoned with the stadium completion it should generate an extra £7m in matchday revenues. Under FFP we are allowed to lose £39m over 3 seasons, last season we lost £13.2M and in our last League 1 season we lost £9.5M. This season we have a much larger squad but he extra revenue should mean we come in at about £9M loss which would be well withing the FFP rules (I'm assuming on transfers our incomings and outgoings were about equal), so the extra matchday revenue should make a big difference. For teams in the Prem it's almost irrelevant with the TV income at over £100m per club but Championship clubs still rely on matchdays for the majority of their income I believe.

Yeah, seem to recall SL claiming that averaging 20k per home game equating to £7-10m in increased revenues.

 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

24 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

An average gate of over 19,000 is very good but think what it would have been if we had continued gathering points like the first eleven games and flirting with play offs instead.

The average certainly would've been higher.

Really happy we sold out for the final match, I know the prices were good and it was Tammys last game but it was still an impressive crowd. Didn't notice too many problems before or during the game despite the large attendance and potential traffic issues either. 

The fact it was a pretty meaningless game for us makes me excited for a season when we do actually compete at the right end of a division. Average home crowds of 23/24k are not out of reach for us.

 

[robinreliant]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

It cannot be the same as when we started but I still get the buzz starting a day before a game. Or at least I did until it went tits up for five months. Somehow we dragged ourselves out of the brown stuff in time to stay up. I like the new stadium very much although it bears nil resemblance to AG in 1950. At least I can find a toilet at half time and not have pee soaking my leather soles for 90 minutes on a windswept terrace.

Yep too many memories including those toilets. They were abysmal weren't they. I'm feeling the effects of the Sunday disappointment. I never could stand Birmingham and all we needed was a goal to send them down. I would have got some satisfaction from that.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

He meant 23,000 home fans.

 

fair enough, not that clear, well to me anyway.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

The average certainly would've been higher.

Really happy we sold out for the final match, I know the prices were good and it was Tammys last game but it was still an impressive crowd. Didn't notice too many problems before or during the game despite the large attendance and potential traffic issues either. 

The fact it was a pretty meaningless game for us makes me excited for a season when we do actually compete at the right end of a division. Average home crowds of 23/24k are not out of reach for us.

 

It was certainly a wow moment coming into the stadium and seeing the stands all looking full, it was an impressive sight!

[Judda]

We also have to remember that we have a very high no of under 12 season tickets. 50 quid. 

Brilliant idea because it's fans for the future but they're not all paying the  £400 odd that we are..... yet! 

[ZiderEyed]

18 minutes ago, pillred said:

It was certainly a wow moment coming into the stadium and seeing the stands all looking full, it was an impressive sight!

Definitely was, hopefully a vision of the future. Made I dead prowed seeing 25,000 city fans packed to the rafters.

[ZiderEyed]

3 minutes ago, Judda said:

We also have to remember that we have a very high no of under 12 season tickets. 50 quid. 

Brilliant idea because it's fans for the future but they're not all paying the  £400 odd that we are..... yet! 

Any idea about the demographic of season ticket holders? Just how many U12's are there? Sly how they get 'em hooked with the 50 quid cheap tickets and then they can't get out of paying the 400 we do!

[Judda]

Just now, ZiderEyed said:

Any idea about the demographic of season ticket holders? Just how many U12's are there? Sly how they get 'em hooked with the 50 quid cheap tickets and then they can't get out of paying the 400 we do!

I can't remember the exact figure but have a feeling it was something like 15%

Not great for now but brill for 10 years from now....

[ZiderEyed]

Just now, Judda said:

I can't remember the exact figure but have a feeling it was something like 15%

Not great for now but brill for 10 years from now....

Not bad that, glad we're getting youngsters in to the Gate.

[Judda]

Innit. Will make a difference for years to come. ...

[CyderInACan]

5 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Any idea about the demographic of season ticket holders? Just how many U12's are there? Sly how they get 'em hooked with the 50 quid cheap tickets and then they can't get out of paying the 400 we do!

Aren't the prices staggered once you reach 12? I don't think you jump from £50 straight to adult prices. 

[RedM]

Would be interesting to know in future how many fans started off at the £50 tickets and actually stick with the club and progress into handing over £400. I'd still rather even it out a bit and offer reductions on  the standard adult prices, attract adults as well as the kids.

Pile it high and sell 'em cheap. We all saw how good the stadium looked on Sunday, even if the game dampened any atmosphere. It's just a shame that we won't see that too often I don't think.

[RedM]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Aren't the prices staggered once you reach 12? I don't think you jump from £50 straight to adult prices. 

Right up to 25 there is increments I believe. 

[CyderInACan]

44 minutes ago, RedM said:

Would be interesting to know in future how many fans started off at the £50 tickets and actually stick with the club and progress into handing over £400. I'd still rather even it out a bit and offer reductions on  the standard adult prices, attract adults as well as the kids.

Pile it high and sell 'em cheap. We all saw how good the stadium looked on Sunday, even if the game dampened any atmosphere. It's just a shame that we won't see that too often I don't think.

I seriously think that 25k crowds will be limited to the odd "big game" next year as if there are three 25k gates in a row, then Bristol Sport have committed to paying for a residents matchday parking scheme (or similar) in the area immediately surrounding AG. It's not clear if this is *just* City games or both City & Bris (in which case there'd never be 25k crowds yet anyway) but it's clearly not in the club's interest to have to pay for this scheme so they can afford to pick and choose which games the entire UL is open for thus never reaching the threshold agreed. 

Parking around AG is one of the biggest grumbles on the local Facebook groups and the local NIMBYs need very little provocation to moan about it; however City/BS seem to have struck a deal with the Council that is completely in the club's favour and unlikely to realistically happen unless we ever reach the Prem. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

28 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I seriously think that 25k crowds will be limited to the odd "big game" next year as if there are three 25k gates in a row, then Bristol Sport have committed to paying for a residents matchday parking scheme (or similar) in the area immediately surrounding AG. It's not clear if this is *just* City games or both City & Bris (in which case there'd never be 25k crowds yet anyway) but it's clearly not in the club's interest to have to pay for this scheme so they can afford to pick and choose which games the entire UL is open for thus never reaching the threshold agreed. 

Parking around AG is one of the biggest grumbles on the local Facebook groups and the local NIMBYs need very little provocation to moan about it; however City/BS seem to have struck a deal with the Council that is completely in the club's favour and unlikely to realistically happen unless we ever reach the Prem. 

Interesting - hadn't heard that before re residents parking

If that ever kicks in would be a real problem for Club IMHO as I simply don't know how you'd expect 25000 to get there 

A whole rethink about transport , use of P&R etc would be needed in that case ,IMHO

Getting there is the one negative / outstanding headache in attending AG 

Tbf I don't know the answer

[RedM]

I wasn't aware of the residents parking thing either. So it's in the best interest to keep the attendances low, interesting.

I suppose if they do pay for a scheme then only residents can park on the roads, but then the club will have to provide reliable, safe and financially viable ways of fans getting to the ground. I did think Brighton had a good scheme, you paid  a levy on your ticket which gave you free travel to and from the game from miles around, train, buses and  park and ride schemes were covered I believe. 

[CyderInACan]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting - hadn't heard that before re residents parking

If that ever kicks in would be a real problem for Club IMHO as I simply don't know how you'd expect 25000 to get there 

A whole rethink about transport , use of P&R etc would be needed in that case ,IMHO

Getting there is the one negative / outstanding headache in attending AG 

Tbf I don't know the answer

 

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I wasn't aware of the residents parking thing either. So it's in the best interest to keep the attendances low, interesting.

I suppose if they do pay for a scheme then only residents can park on the roads, but then the club will have to provide reliable, safe and financially viable ways of fans getting to the ground. I did think Brighton had a good scheme, you paid  a levy on your ticket which gave you free travel to and from the game from miles around, train, buses and  park and ride schemes were covered I believe. 

Isn't the solution already there - the Park & Ride, Metrobus & the land at AV sitting there doing nothing? Wouldn't a joined-up approach utilise all of the above (whilst still lobbying and making a credible business case for the station at Baron's Close, @Tomarse knows more about this than me) to alleviate the pressure on the local vicinity & beyond. It's in Bristol Sport's best interests to get as many people to and from AG without driving as possible, for myriad reasons. 

How you can have a Park & Ride practically next to the stadium that can't be used to visit it is typical. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

 

Isn't the solution already there - the Park & Ride, Metrobus & the land at AV sitting there doing nothing? Wouldn't a joined-up approach utilise all of the above (whilst still lobbying and making a credible business case for the station at Baron's Close, @Tomarse knows more about this than me) to alleviate the pressure on the local vicinity & beyond. It's in Bristol Sport's best interests to get as many people to and from AG without driving as possible, for myriad reasons. 

How you can have a Park & Ride practically next to the stadium that can't be used to visit it is typical. 

Is there any feasibility (Legal Chance) that AV could be utilised for a large P&R ? Leased to Council or whoever on non match days for Nailse / Clevedon / Portishead commuters / shoppers) and used as a paid park on much days

I have no clue about planning and all the issues

does anyone know if this would be a feasibility ?