England Squad

[Die Hard Red]

Just now, JonDolman said:

Well our youth teams in recent years have been winning tournaments, so I don't see why we can't go much further in the future. Clearly that Iceland game was all down to terrible management by Hodgson. He didn't even bother to go and watch Iceland's previous game.

I admire your optimism Jon, but can't say I share it. Once those youngsters find themselves on £100,000+  a week and have to play under the next FA 'yes man' I'm sure they'll find a way to get outplayed by a team of committed minnows in future tournaments. 

[Judda]

It wasn't just the Iceland game. We were rubbish against the Welsh and the other team...

[Pickle Rick]

8 hours ago, BA14 RED said:

Phil Jones over Keane. I'd still have Rooney over Livermore too.

I'd have Skuse over Livermore.

[pillred]

6 hours ago, Red_Wizard said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39999869

 

Manchester United captain Wayne Rooney says he has "more or less" decided his future at the club.

Hmmmmmm or the club has made the decision for him?

I think he is a first class tool, stating when he will hang up his England boots, hopefully England make the decision earlier for him. An average footballer, who didn't live up to his potential.

 

 

I think that's a little harsh, but you are right he didn't turn out to be as good as I and a lot of people thought, but man united top ever goal scorer and England's is not a bad career.

[Lrrr]

England and Man Utd top scorer only gets you to being an 'average' footballer? It's similar to how people are still saying Harry Kane is a 1 season wonder after 3 good years in the premier league and back to back golden boots. 

[Fordy62]

My observations;

1. There must be really slim pickings if Jesse Lingard has been picked. Completely average. 

2. I wonder if we're still after Jesse Lingard. 

3. I can't wait to see how fat Wayne Rooney gets when he retires. I think he'll put Ricky Hatton to shame. 

4. I'd rather watch England Rugby than England Football. 

[Phileas Fogg]

13 hours ago, Red_Wizard said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39999869

 

Manchester United captain Wayne Rooney says he has "more or less" decided his future at the club.

Hmmmmmm or the club has made the decision for him?

I think he is a first class tool, stating when he will hang up his England boots, hopefully England make the decision earlier for him. An average footballer, who didn't live up to his potential.

 

 

A 'tool' that's England and United's record goal scorer. In addition, this week he's added the Europa League to his trophy haul (Champions league, 5x Prem, club World Cup, FA Cup, 3x league cup, champions league) all whilst you're posting about him being 'average' on OTIB.co.uk.

He quite clearly isn't 'average' just didn't fulfil his exceptional promise as a teenager. Maybe he peaked much sooner than most players. He was fully grown and filled out by 18 which is rare, maybe his body slowed down much quicker than normal players who mature later.

 

[Nicki's soulmate]

13 hours ago, CheddarReds said:

Think in some ways he's a victim of the media. Came onto the scene early making a huge impact and the fact he's taken a while to get the hang of his media handling made him an easy target. Easy to brand him as someone who's underperformed but he's England and Man United's highest ever goal scorer and he's won

Champions League x1
Europa League x1
Club World Cup x1
Prem x5
FA Cup x1
League Cup x3

and plenty of individual awards such as PFA player (young player and fans player) of the year, prem player of the year and been in Euro and FIFPRO XI's.

Get's my respect.

 

Yeah, but apart from that what's he done?

[downendcity]

53 minutes ago, Nicki's soulmate said:

Yeah, but apart from that what's he done?

It's amazing how, in this country, we can belittle the achievements of sporting stars so easily.

In Rooney's case, there is no denying his achievements, but what I think detracts in many people's eyes is Rooney himself. From the early revelations about his Granny hooker penchant, to his ultimatum with Fergie that he wanted to leave Man U because of the club's ambition ( he wanted reassurance about the club's ambition from the greatest ever manager and the most successful ever club?!) in order to secure a bumper pay deal.

He isn't the sharpest tool in the box and I think this causes some to begrudge him his achievements and wealth.

A great player - yes. As great as he could have been - no.

[Super]

Reckon Rooney will end up back at Everton.

[Nicki's soulmate]

44 minutes ago, downendcity said:

It's amazing how, in this country, we can belittle the achievements of sporting stars so easily.

In Rooney's case, there is no denying his achievements, but what I think detracts in many people's eyes is Rooney himself. From the early revelations about his Granny hooker penchant, to his ultimatum with Fergie that he wanted to leave Man U because of the club's ambition ( he wanted reassurance about the club's ambition from the greatest ever manager and the most successful ever club?!) in order to secure a bumper pay deal.

He isn't the sharpest tool in the box and I think this causes some to begrudge him his achievements and wealth.

A great player - yes. As great as he could have been - no.

sorry mate, I must reign in my sarcasm

[Shtanley]

Rooney has 3 goals in last 6 starts. Defoe has 1 in 9. 

 

For those saying Rooney hadn't lived up to his potential are a bit silly imo, won every trophy possible and top scorer for England and Man U. Shame his career has got worse so early in his life though. I think a new club where he's playing all the time could help him improve again. 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Rooney has 3 goals in last 6 starts. Defoe has 1 in 9. 

 

For those saying Rooney hadn't lived up to his potential are a bit silly imo, won every trophy possible and top scorer for England and Man U. Shame his career has got worse so early in his life though. I think a new club where he's playing all the time could help him improve again. 

In my case, what I mean is that when he first broke through it looked like we genuinely had a player who had the potential to be top 3 in the world. He was phenomenal at times during Euro 2004. He was strong, a great dribbler, creative and inventive.

I think if he hadn't got injured, we might've won that tournament. We had such a strong squad and his form was amazing given his age.

He hasn't maintained that though, and in my opinion he never reached that level that his potential hinted he could reach. He's had a great career, and at times been one of the best forwards in the world. Just didn't quite live up to that amazing promise when he was a teenager.

 

[downendcity]

23 minutes ago, Nicki's soulmate said:

sorry mate, I must reign in my sarcasm

NS, I was agreeing with you not getting at you. 

Loads of people belittle Rooney for "underachieving", but do so because he can be a bit of a cock when he wants rather than looking at what he has achieved and won in his career.

 

[Shtanley]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

In my case, what I mean is that when he first broke through it looked like we genuinely had a player who had the potential to be top 3 in the world. He was phenomenal at times during Euro 2004. He was strong, a great dribbler, creative and inventive.

I think if he hadn't got injured, we might've won that tournament. We had such a strong squad and his form was amazing given his age.

He hasn't maintained that though, and in my opinion he never reached that level that his potential hinted he could reach. He's had a great career, and at times been one of the best forwards in the world. Just didn't quite live up to that amazing promise when he was a teenager.

 

So what was his potential? Greatest player in the history of football? People got excited as per usual. IMO the problem with Rooney was he was too talented to simply be a goalscorer. Owen, Shearer and Lineker could only score goals. Rio Ferdinand wrote a great passage about how Rooney was so good he basically taught himself all these different skills like coming deep playing switches working defensively. If he'd focused solely on playing up top and hadn't got injured he could be near Shearer's record. 

[stephenkibby.]

Just wish he would retire now, perhaps then by the end of the summer him and manu will be off our forum.

[Monkeh]

21 hours ago, Dunc said:

4 GKs, 5 CBs and 3 RBs... and 2 CMs. Dier is really a defender (though he's a decent holding midfielder) and Livermore is bang average. We're horribly short of anyone who can pass the ball in the middle of midfield.

Has Carrick retired from internationals? He should walk that team! Surprised Warde-Prowse isn't in there. Even Mark Noble could do a job.

to be fair Dunc, England are bang average

[Monkeh]

17 hours ago, downendcity said:

England and Man U's record goalscorer didn't reach his potential?

What he failed to do was maintain his level when he got to his late 20's. Look at Ronaldo. If anything he has got even better in the last few years and at the very least he sustained his exceptionally high standards right through. Rooney plateaued and in the last couple of years has definitely tailed off.

 

I agree with him, when rooney started he had all the tools to be the best striker in the world, he never became that, he should of been mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo, but he isn't,

Not to say he hasn't been a fantastic player, but he still should of been better

[Super]

8 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Who cares. Waste of time.

You could just ignore the thread.

[Nicki's soulmate]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

NS, I was agreeing with you not getting at you. 

Loads of people belittle Rooney for "underachieving", but do so because he can be a bit of a cock when he wants rather than looking at what he has achieved and won in his career.

 

No problem mate

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

So what was his potential? Greatest player in the history of football? People got excited as per usual. IMO the problem with Rooney was he was too talented to simply be a goalscorer. Owen, Shearer and Lineker could only score goals. Rio Ferdinand wrote a great passage about how Rooney was so good he basically taught himself all these different skills like coming deep playing switches working defensively. If he'd focused solely on playing up top and hadn't got injured he could be near Shearer's record. 

Shearer could 'only score goals' 

Couldn't lead the line , hold the ball up or anything else eh 

Never created plenty of chances for teammates or anything

  

[Cowshed]

On 5/25/2017 at 16:32, BanburyRed said:

They're just a let down, a complete let down. Look at the last tournament, went through qualifying undeated (not that that was too difficult given the group opposition), comes to the tournament and same old story - flatter to deceive. Absolutely capitulated against Iceland, no desire, no plan A let alone plan B, complete lack of leadership both on the pitch and from the manager, your best striker taking corners, lack of shape, structure etc.....i don't want to go on.

England need to have a proper rethink about how it wants to play the game, style, tempo, shape, formation etc then pick the players to suit rather than the other way around. Round pegs, round holes.

Quite how Jordan Pickford is not in this selection is a mystery, he's pretty much kept Sunderland up for as long as he could almost on his own, apart from a blunder against Swansea...he's been head and shoulders the best keeper this season.

Other than dropping Rooney, Southgate won't do anything revolutionary or ground breaking, just another safe pair of hands for the FA, not a winner.

What could he do? 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, Shtanley said:

So what was his potential? Greatest player in the history of football? People got excited as per usual.

I don't think after Euro 2004 it was unreasonable to think if he carried on with that scary form he could potentially be a top 3 player in world football at some stage (same sort of bracket as Messi / Ronaldo / Suarez / Neymar / Ibrahimovic etc have been over last few years). I don't think he's ever reached that level.

 

[BanburyRed]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

What could he do? 

 

Well, he could explain why he's picked Butland over Pickford? No disrespect to Jack but he's been out injured for most of the season whilst Jordan has been nothing short of phenomenal for Sunderland.

The young lad McQueen at Southampton.

Jake Livermore? Give me a break. Where's Ross Barkley? Drinkwater? Ward-Prowse?

And absolutely no disrespect to Jermain, who not only has busted a gut on the pitch for Sunderland but has shown a heart of gold off the pitch with Bradley Lowey, but really? What are we learning? Tammy deserves a chance in there. In a struggling team, knocking in goals almost for fun, an exemplary attitude.

Too many old guard, too many who have performed badly and let the manager, the team, the fans, the country down.

Except we'll get some defeats along the way, no bad thing, always learn more from defeat than victory. Kick on.

Just a few things he could do.

[Cowshed]

13 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Well, he could explain why he's picked Butland over Pickford? No disrespect to Jack but he's been out injured for most of the season whilst Jordan has been nothing short of phenomenal for Sunderland.

The young lad McQueen at Southampton.

Jake Livermore? Give me a break. Where's Ross Barkley? Drinkwater?

And absolutely no disrespect to Jermain, who not only has busted a gut on the pitch for Sunderland but has shown a heart of gold off the pitch with Bradley Lowey, but really? What are we learning? Tammy deserves a chance in there. In a struggling team, knocking in goals almost for fun, an exemplary attitude.

Too many old guard, too many who have performed badly and let the manager, the team, the fans, the country down.

Except we'll get some defeats along the way, no bad thing, always learn more from defeat than victory. Kick on.

Just a few things he could do.

Its an interesting topic.

Mr Southgate has added a few ideas like playing through the thirds from very deep with defenders splitting very wide and prepared to take the ball under pressure, and a commitment to using John Stones to play out. 

In general Mr Southgate has been bringing in new players, but it is hard to see how he can do anything revolutionary or ground breaking. He does not have the players.

England need to have a proper rethink about how it wants to play the game, style, tempo, shape, formation ... I would agree but that is out of the hands of Mr Southgate and requires agreement of EPL,FA and academies and clubs to a collective aim  ... Long way off.

 

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Well, he could explain why he's picked Butland over Pickford? No disrespect to Jack but he's been out injured for most of the season whilst Jordan has been nothing short of phenomenal for Sunderland.

The young lad McQueen at Southampton.

Jake Livermore? Give me a break. Where's Ross Barkley? Drinkwater?

And absolutely no disrespect to Jermain, who not only has busted a gut on the pitch for Sunderland but has shown a heart of gold off the pitch with Bradley Lowey, but really? What are we learning? Tammy deserves a chance in there. In a struggling team, knocking in goals almost for fun, an exemplary attitude.

Too many old guard, too many who have performed badly and let the manager, the team, the fans, the country down.

Except we'll get some defeats along the way, no bad thing, always learn more from defeat than victory. Kick on.

Just a few things he could do.

He really doesn't, he's only just moved up to U21's level and they have european championships this summer, allow him to prove himself at U21's level consistently before moving him up. If he's at a premier league club next season and performing then think about including him. I wouldn't have him over Defoe, second highest English scoring striker last season in the premier league and scored in his last appearance, while he's still capable then keep picking him. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

42 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Well, he could explain why he's picked Butland over Pickford? No disrespect to Jack but he's been out injured for most of the season whilst Jordan has been nothing short of phenomenal for Sunderland.

The young lad McQueen at Southampton.

Jake Livermore? Give me a break. Where's Ross Barkley? Drinkwater? Ward-Prowse?

And absolutely no disrespect to Jermain, who not only has busted a gut on the pitch for Sunderland but has shown a heart of gold off the pitch with Bradley Lowey, but really? What are we learning? Tammy deserves a chance in there. In a struggling team, knocking in goals almost for fun, an exemplary attitude.

Too many old guard, too many who have performed badly and let the manager, the team, the fans, the country down.

Except we'll get some defeats along the way, no bad thing, always learn more from defeat than victory. Kick on.

Just a few things he could do.

Wants Pickford to play in U21 Euro Finals rather than sit around as a bystander

Same reason he picked 4 keepers - as he said he didn't want to be messing Pickford and U21s around if a keeper was injured

Dont fear - if Pickford stays on course him and Butland will e competing the No 1 jersey

Plenty of time , if he's the real deal, which he looks

 

[BanburyRed]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

He really doesn't, he's only just moved up to U21's level and they have european championships this summer, allow him to prove himself at U21's level consistently before moving him up. If he's at a premier league club next season and performing then think about including him. I wouldn't have him over Defoe, second highest English scoring striker last season in the premier league and scored in his last appearance, while he's still capable then keep picking him. 

Kane and Abraham up front? I'd have that any day.

[Lrrr]

22 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Kane and Abraham up front? I'd have that any day.

Now? He's had 1 season playing in the championship! Looking ahead there's promise for it, equally however Rashford has proven himself at premier league level if you're giving a younger player a chance. 

[BanburyRed]

17 minutes ago, hodge said:

Now? He's had 1 season playing in the championship! Looking ahead there's promise for it, equally however Rashford has proven himself at premier league level if you're giving a younger player a chance. 

Yup, right now. There's something about Rashford that i just don't get the press hysteria about him. No doubt he's got talent. Almost like he's trying too hard, flicks, kicks etc, keeping the ball and dribbling and losing it when he should be giving it, the simple 5yd pass etc...last England game when he came on, made an impact but lost the ball easily, took the wrong option....

Hey, what do i know?!