Son of Fred Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Super said: So english football isnt that great either then? Looks like one night in the tender care of the Royal Marines tired the wee lads out. Should'v been the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps instead..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 47 minutes ago, BA14 RED said: Hart should have been dropped after the Euros. Embarassingly overrated. Hart's not to blame. England deserved no more than they got going in with such a negative midfield, that saw the most creative player Adam Llanana stuck on the left wing and two defensive carthorses in Dier and Livermore. That, plus our lack of international quality centre backs will always hamper England. We will win the group and qualify, but don't expect too much in Russia if we continue with this type of line-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, Super said: So english football isnt that great either then? Scottish football is shite as I said before. When was the last time Scotland reached an international tournament? 20+ years ago? They just don't have the enough quality - end of. England haven't lost a qualification match in 35 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, BanburyRed said: Dier & Livermore as holding midfielders? Jeez. No creativity. Need to find a route for Barkley. Hart past his best, needs to be moved on now. Young Pickford should be between the sticks. No question. Defoe on 90+5? What's the point?? Same old, same old. Yawn. Glad somebody else highlighted this Two holding midfielders against Scotland - Really ? ....... Really ? We need to take a leaf out the Cricket side and go on the front foot ( Only thing I disagree with you on is Barkley who needs to buck his ideas up if he's ever going to fulfil his potential ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, BanburyRed said: Dier & Livermore as holding midfielders? Jeez. No creativity. Need to find a route for Barkley. Hart past his best, needs to be moved on now. Young Pickford should be between the sticks. No question. Defoe on 90+5? What's the point?? Same old, same old. Yawn. Agree about finding a place for Barkley. On the goalkeeper issue, Jack Butland is in my opinion our best option, just hope he can stay injury free now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, Robbored said: Scottish football is shite as I said before. When was the last time Scotland reached an international tournament? 20+ years ago? They just don't have the enough quality - end of. England haven't lost a qualification match in 35 games. And have won 5 out of the last 15 in tournament football. We dont have the quality either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 Joe Hart is simply awful. Two copies of the Bale free kick. He just can't get there England had a bag full of chances and Lalana really, it was right on your head son. Still there we are got out of jail thankfully and we are in course to fail at another tournament. Happy Days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malago Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 What pissed me off was the complete lack of passion. The Scots are a mediocre team, but they ran their socks off particularly Griffiths. I thought our performance was lazy, full of couldn't care less flicks and misplaced passes. The U20 team has shown 1000% more application, but I expect their heads will be turned by money and false praise by the time they reach the full team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, Malago said: What pissed me off was the complete lack of passion. The Scots are a mediocre team, but they ran their socks off particularly Griffiths. I thought our performance was lazy, full of couldn't care less flicks and misplaced passes. The U20 team has shown 1000% more application, but I expect their heads will be turned by money and false praise by the time they reach the full team. Look at Hart's reaction after both free kicks - just swigging from his water bottle like he couldn't care less, no doubt spending his next head n shoulders commercial money. Compare to Griffiths reaction at the final whistle, on his knees distraught. It meant something. Like i said in an earlier post - same old, same old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malago Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Robbored said: Scottish football is shite as I said before. When was the last time Scotland reached an international tournament? 20+ years ago? They just don't have the enough quality - end of. England haven't lost a qualification match in 35 games. Only because the seeding system guarantees we play piss poor opposition. I don't know if there are degrees of shiteness, but if there is, we are only one notch of shiteness above the Scots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, BanburyRed said: Look at Hart's reaction after both free kicks - just swigging from his water bottle like he couldn't care less, no doubt spending his next head n shoulders commercial money. Compare to Griffiths reaction at the final whistle, on his knees distraught. It meant something. Like i said in an earlier post - same old, same old. I only caught the last few mins of the game but know exactly what you mean by same old, same old. Question is - wher does the blame lie? None of the recent England managers have played an attacking style so is that way of playing coming from the FA? I really don't know why Southgate isn't any different from any of his predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Malago said: Only because the seeding system guarantees we play piss poor opposition. I don't know if there are degrees of shiteness, but if there is, we are only one notch of shiteness above the Scots. To get a decent seed you need to be a decent team -Scotland are shite largely because of the Scottish league system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 Just catching up on the Venezuela v England U20 World Cup final. Its thrilling stuff. Both teams playing with freedom, players running with ball and taking each other on. Why can't the full England team adopt the same attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 Unless English football follows English Rugby and Cricket (made centralised) and makes the national team the no.1 priority it will continue in this vain indefinitely. It does not matter who the manager is, which players are picked or what the formation is. Obviously neither the Premier League or the clubs - the players' employers care about the national team and really view it as something they could do without. The players also know where the glamour and the moola is and it isn't the FA. Sadly, representing England is no longer the pinnacle of a footballers' career and it's all but a token team put together for the sake of tradition. It's an archaic institution which might as well be abandoned. I still occasional watch it, especially tournaments and always hope we might just win but frankly have no faith in it whatsoever. If nobody actually involved in it cares about it then why should I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 33 minutes ago, Robbored said: Just catching up on the Venezuela v England U20 World Cup final. Its thrilling stuff. Both teams playing with freedom, players running with ball and taking each other on. Why can't the full England team adopt the same attitude? The various U representative sides are developments stages. Full International and league football is not development. The England team could not adopt the same attitude because their opponents would not allow them to. Many of these kids will not get a game in the EPL's XI's because football at that level is about winning, pragmatic risk averse winning v playing with freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miah Dennehy Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Robbored said: To get a decent seed you need to be a decent team -Scotland are shite largely because of the Scottish league system. I'd like to see an end to seeding. What we get now, is a gazillion fairly meaningless qualifying games. Followed by tournaments that rarely excite in the way that they should. I'd rather see England in a qualifying group with say Italy and France and one other, then if we did qualify, it would actually mean something. Of course FIFA would see this as potential loss of revenue, so until I run the world, it ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 There's so much going on behind the scenes but Joe Hart playing? Really? I believe he's had a fairly indifferent season for Torino so why isn't Fraser Forster playing. I actually thought Livermore played quite well whereas Dier was . . Dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 23 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Sadly, representing England is no longer the pinnacle of a footballers' career and it's all but a token team put together for the sake of tradition. It's an archaic institution which might as well be abandoned. I still occasional watch it, especially tournaments and always hope we might just win but frankly have no faith in it whatsoever. If nobody actually involved in it cares about it then why should I? Agree with your sentiments entirely. I vowed after Euro '16, especially the Iceland embarassment, that I'd given up with England. Overpaid pre-Madonnas who don't understand nor care about what it means to represent your country or the pride of playing for England. As a result I never watch England friendlies anymore. Catch the occasional qualifier if there's nothing else on. I'm glad we beat the Sweaties, but for the squad we player, another dreadful performance. As for Joe Hart, shocking performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 36 minutes ago, SARJ said: I'm glad we beat the Sweaties, but for the squad we player, another dreadful performance. As for Joe Hart, shocking performance. Sorry to make your day worse but it was 2-2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 England have been embarrassing for years and nothing changes. Another clueless manager playing gutless players . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 2017-6-11 at 13:23, Miah Dennehy said: I'd like to see an end to seeding. What we get now, is a gazillion fairly meaningless qualifying games. Followed by tournaments that rarely excite in the way that they should. I'd rather see England in a qualifying group with say Italy and France and one other, then if we did qualify, it would actually mean something. Of course FIFA would see this as potential loss of revenue, so until I run the world, it ain't gonna happen. There is a new tournament for this in 2018 I believe. http://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2079553.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, SARJ said: Agree with your sentiments entirely. I vowed after Euro '16, especially the Iceland embarassment, that I'd given up with England. Overpaid pre-Madonnas who don't understand nor care about what it means to represent your country or the pride of playing for England. As a result I never watch England friendlies anymore. Catch the occasional qualifier if there's nothing else on. I'm glad we beat the Sweaties, but for the squad we player, another dreadful performance. As for Joe Hart, shocking performance. 2010 was the last straw for me. Truly pathetic. As far as I'm concerned the last side I was proud of was the school of Seaman, Shearer, Pearce etc. We used to have leaders. The supposed 'golden generation' was a victim of its own hype and its got worse since then. Maybe, as the stars align we do just happen to click on the right combination of players at the right time? I can't believe the FA were any less useless in 1996 than they are now. I don't necessarily blame the players, they are a product of a broken system. I channel my sporting patrionism into the national rugby and cricket sides. Organisations designed for international success. Interestingly, I take no more than a fleeting interest in these sports, domestically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 24 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: 2010 was the last straw for me. Truly pathetic. As far as I'm concerned the last side I was proud of was the school of Seaman, Shearer, Pearce etc. We used to have leaders. The supposed 'golden generation' was a victim of its own hype and its got worse since then. Maybe, as the stars align we do just happen to click on the right combination of players at the right time? I can't believe the FA were any less useless in 1996 than they are now. I don't necessarily blame the players, they are a product of a broken system. I channel my sporting patrionism into the national rugby and cricket sides. Organisations designed for international success. Interestingly, I take no more than a fleeting interest in these sports, domestically. Football has moved on massively since 1996 internationally. Your I don't necessarily blame the players, they are a product of a broken system ... The FA/FL and EPL are part of that system. The FA are very much part of that broken system. The FA are impotent because of the EPL. England youth development from its foundation stages, youth development and pro development stage wouldn't be considered fit for purpose in Germany and Spain. People will cluck at the U20 success but those players won't be gaining experience in EPL XI's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Football has moved on massively since 1996 internationally. Your I don't necessarily blame the players, they are a product of a broken system ... The FA/FL and EPL are part of that system. The FA are very much part of that broken system. The FA are impotent because of the EPL. England youth development from its foundation stages, youth development and pro development stage wouldn't be considered fit for purpose in Germany and Spain. People will cluck at the U20 success but those players won't be gaining experience in EPL XI's. If you read my post ID:74 you'll see I totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: If you read my post ID:74 you'll see I totally agree! The I can't believe the FA were any less useless in 1996 than they are now caught my attention. In 1996 St Georges Park did not exist. The FA chose to spend a hundred million on ONE facility. The Germans post 2001 chose to spend a similar sum on a national network of coaches and centres, one hundred coaching centres v one. Yes the FA are more useless ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Sorry to make your day worse but it was 2-2.... Apologies, I was so elated by Kane's late goal it felt like we had beaten them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: The I can't believe the FA were any less useless in 1996 than they are now caught my attention. In 1996 St Georges Park did not exist. The FA chose to spend a hundred million on ONE facility. The Germans post 2001 chose to spend a similar sum on a national network of coaches and centres, one hundred coaching centres v one. Yes the FA are more useless ... Well I'm not going to sit here and defend the FA! I was suggesting that even when the national team reached the business end of major tournaments it had more to do with chance (Seaman, Adams, Gascoigne, Shearer, Sheringham all peaking together - with an inspiring coach) than any nous from the FA. And I think our only chance of success is, by chance, the right balls coming in for us again. It's interesting you should site the Germans. Here is a country where being in the business end of major international tournaments is still the primary aspiration of young German footballers and their association. Where the clubs are at the vocal point of the communities, not detached due to wealth. Where individualistic, capitalistic values are kept in check for the sake of the greater good of the many, not the few. But this has probably now spilt over from the politics thread and conversation with our mutual friend Mr Fastard so I shall have to leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 16 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Well I'm not going to sit here and defend the FA! I was suggesting that even when the national team reached the business end of major tournaments it had more to do with chance (Seaman, Adams, Gascoigne, Shearer, Sheringham all peaking together - with an inspiring coach) than any nous from the FA. And I think our only chance of success is, by chance, the right balls coming in for us again. It's interesting you should site the Germans. Here is a country where being in the business end of major international tournaments is still the primary aspiration of young German footballers and their association. Where the clubs are at the vocal point of the communities, not detached due to wealth. Where individualistic, capitalistic values are kept in check for the sake of the greater good of the many, not the few. But this has probably now spilt over from the politics thread and conversation with our mutual friend Mr Fastard so I shall have to leave it there. I could cite many other nations development of young players. http://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/02/05/the-icelandic-football-model/ I think Iceland beating England was an odd perfect storm of factors, but their progression is planned and meticulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 On 12/06/2017 at 13:17, shelts said: England have been embarrassing for years and nothing changes. Another clueless manager playing gutless players . what would you do differently Saturday and last night? Frances midfield showed up Englands. Put Barkley in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Trueredsupporte said: what would you do differently Saturday and last night? Frances midfield showed up Englands. Put Barkley in? Posted on Sunday after the Scotland game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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