Whats become of Tin Plavotic

[gavlin]

Had a look at the squads on the new website and one player missing is Tin Plavotic who was signed in the January window and went straight out on loan to Cheltenham Town. Is he another illusive foreign import.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

Think there are others missing, didn't we sign a young striker from Luton, think it was something like Hinds.

Ignore that he is the last one on the list.

[JamesBCFC]

Just now, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Think there are others missing, didn't we sign a young striker from Luton, think it was something like Hinds.

Yep, Freddie Hinds. But he is listed in the U23 squad.

[pongo88]

We've had a selection of strange signings in the last few years. In addition to the above we've had Di Girolamo, Graita, a couple of players from Ireland. The costs has been low, in the general scheme of things, but why bother? Someone employed by City must have thought these players were promising, but what does that say?

[JamesBCFC]

12 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We've had a selection of strange signings in the last few years. In addition to the above we've had Di Girolamo, Graita, a couple of players from Ireland. The costs has been low, in the general scheme of things, but why bother? Someone employed by City must have thought these players were promising, but what does that say?

Absolutely nothing.

You could spot the next Messi or Ronaldo, and the talent is there, but if they don't work hard then they will not succeed. We saw this to a lesser extent with JET. Bags of talent, but compared to what he could/can achieve he is in many respects failing in his football career.

Look how many players who are in the lower leagues who were once at the academy of one of the big clubs, these clubs must have seen the potential for them when they were younger, but very rarely does one actually fulfill that potential.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Perfect song for your question and the player here: (wait for the chorus - the syllables fit perfectly!)

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Still here? Along with the other u23 players mentioned in this thread. These genuinely are players for the future that we won't hear much of for a couple of years.

[Phileas Fogg]

33 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We've had a selection of strange signings in the last few years. In addition to the above we've had Di Girolamo, Graita, a couple of players from Ireland. The costs has been low, in the general scheme of things, but why bother? Someone employed by City must have thought these players were promising, but what does that say?

Low risk high reward signings usually on frees or very low fees. Wouldn't describe them as 'strange' signings at all, they're young players with potential. 

Not all will work out, but some will which makes it worth it. 

[pongo88]

31 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

We've had a selection of strange signings in the last few years. In addition to the above we've had Di Girolamo, Graita, a couple of players from Ireland. The costs has been low, in the general scheme of things, but why bother? Someone employed by City must have thought these players were promising, but what does that say?

 

14 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Absolutely nothing.

You could spot the next Messi or Ronaldo, and the talent is there, but if they don't work hard then they will not succeed. We saw this to a lesser extent with JET. Bags of talent, but compared to what he could/can achieve he is in many respects failing in his football career.

Look how many players who are in the lower leagues who were once at the academy of one of the big clubs, these clubs must have seen the potential for them when they were younger, but very rarely does one actually fulfill that potential.

Sorry, can't agree with this. It says a lot - Di Girolamo, Garita etc - too many no hopers. It's just a scatter gun approach. 

[JamesBCFC]

Just now, pongo88 said:

 

Sorry, can't agree with this. It says a lot - Di Girolamo, Garita etc - too many no hopers. It's just a scatter gun approach. 

That is 2.

One of those was a desperate attempt by Cotterill.

De Girolamo has been one of the best players in almost every single U23 game he played and has been here a mere 12 months, even Garita has only been here 18 months. Garita probably wont make it here, but if we can sell him, we will be able to make a profit. Too early to say either way with De Girolamo.

 

The bigest issue we have is fans expecting results yesterday.

[Selred]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

 

Sorry, can't agree with this. It says a lot - Di Girolamo, Garita etc - too many no hopers. It's just a scatter gun approach. 

Garita the £50k punt has proven he can hack it in league 2. Much rather spend that amount of money and see if he can step up than waste £2.5 million on an Engvall.

[pongo88]

44 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Low risk high reward signings usually on frees or very low fees. Wouldn't describe them as 'strange' signings at all, they're young players with potential. 

Not all will work out, but some will which makes it worth it. 

Potential? Grita, a player who could never be a Championship player in a million years. The couple of Irish player (so obscure I can't remember their names). Tin Platovic - 11 games for Cheltenham, wow! Etc

39 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

That is 2.

One of those was a desperate attempt by Cotterill.

De Girolamo has been one of the best players in almost every single U23 game he played and has been here a mere 12 months, even Garita has only been here 18 months. Garita probably wont make it here, but if we can sell him, we will be able to make a profit. Too early to say either way with De Girolamo.

 

The bigest issue we have is fans expecting results yesterday.

Not "2"  I said "etc". Look at all the rest. As for De Girolamo, I think you've spent too long listening  to LJ's interviews. Early last season he said the only reason De Girolamo wasn't in the team was because of the great form of Lee Tomlin. When LT's form disappeared where was De Girolamo? At Chrltenham, where he couldn't hold down a first team place 

37 minutes ago, Selred said:

Garita the £50k punt has proven he can hack it in league 2. Much rather spend that amount of money and see if he can step up than waste £2.5 million on an Engvall.

Oh, it's only £50k, so that's alright, because he's proven he can score a couple of goals for Plymouth in League 2!  I could find players who can do that and so could most on the forum  

37 minutes ago, cynic said:

Di Girolamo a no hoper ?

Very talented footballer with league games under his belt with Sheff. Utd. York. Northampton. and Cheltenham, scoring 5 goals.

Garita was a "50k punt" by Steve Cotterill and will probably make his way in L1 or L2 having been a success at Plymouth.

 

See above 

[pongo88]

28 minutes ago, cynic said:

One other thing about Plavotic - he's the same height as Flint and, with a bit of experience who's to say that he won't have the same effect as Flint ?

 

I know this is the silly season, but there is silly, and then there is silly. Platovic is the same height as Flint so he might be ok. OMG - why not sign John Cleese? He's 6 ft 5 in, so he should be ok as well 

[Shtanley]

He's actually alright according to Cheltenham fans. Big strong guy who's okay with all at feet. Not too much pace though. 

[JBFC II]

De girolamo will prove to be a very good buy imo on a free, has the ability to make it with us and even if he doesn't we will certainly make a few hundred grand profit on him, with garita we could probably sell him now for a hundred grand profit to a league one or two team

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Potential? Grita, a player who could never be a Championship player in a million years. The couple of Irish player (so obscure I can't remember their names). Tin Platovic - 11 games for Cheltenham, wow! Etc

Young players have got to get first team football somewhere.. Bryan started off at Plymouth and came back a far better player. He's now a first team regular here.

Should Chelsea not waste time developing Tammy Abraham if they're just going to send him to Bristol City?

I'm a bit confused about what point your making. Are you suggesting we don't bring in ANY young players that aren't good enough for the first team immediately?

 

[JasonM88]

Signed a 2 and half year deal, so still has 2 years left. Got good reviews at Cheltenham.

[pongo88]

55 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Young players have got to get first team football somewhere.. Bryan started off at Plymouth and came back a far better player. He's now a first team regular here.

Should Chelsea not waste time developing Tammy Abraham if they're just going to send him to Bristol City?

I'm a bit confused about what point your making. Are you suggesting we don't bring in ANY young players that aren't good enough for the first team immediately?

 

The point I'm making is simple. The club is employing people to scout and sign young players for low / no fees, with the aim of them progressing to the first team. It's obvious not all will make it at Championship level, but the current success rate isn't  good enough. You might say it's too early to judge if players such as De Girolamo and Playovic will make it, but as they can't even be first team regulars at Cheltenham, I'd say it's unlikely. Garita runs around a bit, but he's not a prolific scorer in League 2.  The scouting system for cheap young players is just not good enough. 

The last successful cheap young signing were Adomah and Bolasie, 6-7 years ago. Joe Bryan didn't start at Plymouth. He was a youth team player who went on loan to Bath and Plymouth, so wasn't scouted and signed from another club. It's all very well to say not much money is being spent on these players, but somebody at City isn't doing his job properly. So why not employ someone who can do the job? I could find players capable of playing in League 2 and so could most on the forum  

When you move up the scale of fees paid for young players it gets better - e g Moore and Magnusson. As for Abraham, this is irrelevant to the point I'm making. He wasn't a young unknown player plucked from a lower league club. He was so well known that someone on the forum suggested City sign him on loan!

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The point I'm making is simple. The club is employing people to scout and sign young players for low / no fees, with the aim of them progressing to the first team. It's obvious not all will make it at Championship level, but the current success rate isn't  good enough. You might say it's too early to judge if players such as De Girolamo and Playovic will make it, but as they can't even be first team regulars at Cheltenham, I'd say it's unlikely. Garita runs around a bit, but he's not a prolific scorer in League 2.  The scouting system for cheap young players is just not good enough. 

I think the Garita example is a bit different. He's a Cotterill player anyway who was literally described as a 'punt'. The implication was that it may work it may not work, but it's such a low risk and fee we might as well have a go. I believe part of the reason he was bought in was his size and strength which could adapt to the English game and also as a translator for Kodjia.

Based on Plymouth fans views on him, he could probably carve out quite a good career for himself in L1/L2 and we'd make a profit off him. I think he is a bit of an anomaly and not really comparable to Platovic/De Girolamo who are Johnson players bought to the club with a purpose.

I think you need to show a bit more patience though, especially about the likes of Platovic (who's been here 6 months!!!) and De Girolamo who's been here around a year. 

Quote

The last successful cheap young signing were Adomah and Bolasie, 6-7 years ago. Joe Bryan didn't start at Plymouth. He was a youth team player who went on loan to Bath and Plymouth, so wasn't scouted and signed from another club. It's all very well to say not much money is being spent on these players, but somebody at City isn't doing his job properly. So why not employ someone who can do the job? I could find players capable of playing in League 2 and so could most on the forum.

Depends how you define success, this club has only really been expanding a squad of u23's for a few seasons so it's not really comparable to 6 or 7 years ago when we simply weren't making these transfers. We could easily go out and look for first team ready young players - but it would cost more now. (I would even argue that at first, Bolasie wasn't first team ready and was far too raw).

That person would be Tinnion and his team who "isn't doing his job properly" then. 

I think that loans to the likes of Weston, Bath and Cheltenham aren't exclusively about the standard of football. It's about being in that first team environment, playing against wiley old pros at that level, learning the physicality and growing up as players. We don't have a high standard of local clubs around us really so we've got to make do with league 2 sides (which really isn't that bad a level to play at for a while).

The point about Bryan is that loans to these sort of clubs do have a value, doesn't matter if he's an academy graduate or not. He came back here a far better and more mature player. The same may happen with Platovic and De Girolamo.

For young players, particularly foreign ones like Platovic, it really would have been an education. Who knows, maybe he'll get a L1 loan this season seeing as other clubs might be more aware of him now. 

Quote

When you move up the scale of fees paid for young players it gets better - e g Moore and Magnusson. As for Abraham, this is irrelevant to the point I'm making. He wasn't a young unknown player plucked from a lower league club. He was so well known that someone on the forum suggested City sign him on loan!

So what do you suggest then? We stop signing frees and cheaper young players and focus on those that cost 7 figure sums that are more calculated risks? 

I think you're being a little harsh really, young players need first team football and when they're unknowns like Platovic, you might not find loads of L1 or higher clubs that'll take a chance on them. GJ being there is useful as he will trust in the quality of player he will be receiving from us. You've got to give people time to develop. 

 

[Port Said Red]

10 hours ago, pongo88 said:

 

Sorry, can't agree with this. It says a lot - Di Girolamo, Garita etc - too many no hopers. It's just a scatter gun approach. 

I think you will find that almost all clubs have a similar approach, you can do all the research you like, but there is no guarantee which young players will develop into good senior ones. Perhaps you are comparing us with other clubs, where you only see the players who make it? 

We pick up players from other clubs,especially Premier league clubs whom those clubs presumably had high hopes for at one time as well.  

[City Ben]

9 hours ago, JBFC II said:

De girolamo will prove to be a very good buy imo on a free, has the ability to make it with us and even if he doesn't we will certainly make a few hundred grand profit on him, with garita we could probably sell him now for a hundred grand profit to a league one or two team

Exactly. I think this is the point. They won't all "make it" through to our first team, but when we part ways with them it will be at a profit. And if one person does make it through to the first team we've saved a fortune in transfer fees. I think it's a business plan, not a "youth team" in the more traditional sense. 

8 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The point I'm making is simple. The club is employing people to scout and sign young players for low / no fees, with the aim of them progressing to the first team. 

Sorry to cut you off mid-sentence ! I'm not sure that this is the aim. I'd say it's more likely that the aim is to find players with potential, who will develop and can then be sold on at a profit, or might - just might! - make it to the first team. 

 

[Whitchurch1966]

Plavotic did well at Cheltenham, got a mate who has a season ticket up there, got an injury mid way through I think. Said he looked really good on the ball, stong, good in the air obviously. Maybe another year at L2 or try to step up to L1?

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I know this is the silly season, but there is silly, and then there is silly. Platovic is the same height as Flint so he might be ok. OMG - why not sign John Cleese? He's 6 ft 5 in, so he should be ok as well 

JC is also a fan of the mighty Reds and lived in Weston .

Sign him up . 

With some of our comedy defending from last year he should fit right in .

 

[Vespa Red]

11 hours ago, pongo88 said:

I know this is the silly season, but there is silly, and then there is silly. Platovic is the same height as Flint so he might be ok. OMG - why not sign John Cleese? He's 6 ft 5 in, so he should be ok as well 

Have you seen John Cleese's legs?  They go all over the place particularly when facing German opposition.  Prone to a booking for on-field rants.  Basically an uncoordinated Jamie McCoombe.  Personally I'd leave well alone....

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, City Ben said:

Exactly. I think this is the point. They won't all "make it" through to our first team, but when we part ways with them it will be at a profit. And if one person does make it through to the first team we've saved a fortune in transfer fees. I think it's a business plan, not a "youth team" in the more traditional sense. 

Sorry to cut you off mid-sentence ! I'm not sure that this is the aim. I'd say it's more likely that the aim is to find players with potential, who will develop and can then be sold on at a profit, or might - just might! - make it to the first team. 

 

I agree , already Garita could easily be sold to Plymouth for 100k thus doubling our fee and who knows if it goes well a nice little sell on helps to fill the coffers.

 The plan is a good one , as a Championship club those lower down the Leagues would be happy to buy our best youngsters who couldn't quite hack it at this level but could do a job for them .

Also It only takes one or two to break into the first team and play regularly to attract the interest of Prem clubs or richer Championship clubs who adopt the same policy as us .

A Championship fringe player costs less than à Prem fringe player .

[Monkeh]

10 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The point I'm making is simple. The club is employing people to scout and sign young players for low / no fees, with the aim of them progressing to the first team. It's obvious not all will make it at Championship level, but the current success rate isn't  good enough. You might say it's too early to judge if players such as De Girolamo and Playovic will make it, but as they can't even be first team regulars at Cheltenham, I'd say it's unlikely. Garita runs around a bit, but he's not a prolific scorer in League 2.  The scouting system for cheap young players is just not good enough. 

The last successful cheap young signing were Adomah and Bolasie, 6-7 years ago. Joe Bryan didn't start at Plymouth. He was a youth team player who went on loan to Bath and Plymouth, so wasn't scouted and signed from another club. It's all very well to say not much money is being spent on these players, but somebody at City isn't doing his job properly. So why not employ someone who can do the job? I could find players capable of playing in League 2 and so could most on the forum  

When you move up the scale of fees paid for young players it gets better - e g Moore and Magnusson. As for Abraham, this is irrelevant to the point I'm making. He wasn't a young unknown player plucked from a lower league club. He was so well known that someone on the forum suggested City sign him on loan!

have a look at the number of young players at chelsea, man city, arsenal, man united, and then come back and say the same thing,

The success rate is fine, we had 7 home grown players in a squad of 16 at points during last season

[gordie]

56 minutes ago, Vespa Red said:

Have you seen John Cleese's legs?  They go all over the place particularly when facing German opposition.  Prone to a booking for on-field rants.  Basically an uncoordinated Jamie McCoombe.  Personally I'd leave well alone....

Hasn't even signed yet and you are writing him off, give the bloke a chance, he could be the next messi.. ah

[pongo88]

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

have a look at the number of young players at chelsea, man city, arsenal, man united, and then come back and say the same thing,

The success rate is fine, we had 7 home grown players in a squad of 16 at points during last season

I have had a look at the number of young players at Chelsea etc and I'll say the same thing. City cannot afford to operate in the same way as the big clubs so the comparison is meaningless. At one point last season Chelsea had THIRTY SEVEN (!) players on loan. Clubs like Chelsea with mega bucks just hover up young players and if one from thirty seven ends up in the first team they're happy.

As for 7 home grown players in a squad of 16, how many home grown players are actually first team regulars? Only Joe Bryan and, to a lesser extent, the proverbial "exciting young prospect" Bobby Reid. I beleive that it's imperative for City to have an academy and scouting system for young players, but recent results have been poor. If it was an end of term school report I'd give City a D+ with the comment "lots of effort but must do better"

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I have had a look at the number of young players at Chelsea etc and I'll say the same thing. City cannot afford to operate in the same way as the big clubs so the comparison is meaningless. At one point last season Chelsea had THIRTY SEVEN (!) players on loan. Clubs like Chelsea with mega bucks just hover up young players and if one from thirty seven ends up in the first team they're happy.

We've just paid £5.2m for a forward and had the likes of Lee Tomlin and Gary O'Neil on the bench last season - probably close to £30,000 per week on wages. That's without mentioning Engvall..

I think our level of spending indicates we can pretty comfortably accommodate a few prospects on a few hundred quid a week.. if even one of them becomes a first team regular or is sold on for a profit.. it's worth it.

Quote

As for 7 home grown players in a squad of 16, how many home grown players are actually first team regulars? Only Joe Bryan and, to a lesser extent, the proverbial "exciting young prospect" Bobby Reid. I beleive that it's imperative for City to have an academy and scouting system for young players, but recent results have been poor. If it was an end of term school report I'd give City a D+ with the comment "lots of effort but must do better"

What time period are you basing that on though? If it's from the time of De Girolamo (about a year) it's not nearly long enough to judge. 

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

We've just paid £5.2m for a forward and had the likes of Lee Tomlin and Gary O'Neil on the bench last season - probably close to £30,000 per week on wages. That's without mentioning Engvall..

I think our level of spending indicates we can pretty comfortably accommodate a few prospects on a few hundred quid a week.. if even one of them becomes a first team regular or is sold on for a profit.. it's worth it.

What time period are you basing that on though? If it's from the time of De Girolamo (about a year) it's not nearly long enough to judge. 

This academy thing has only really kicked on since LJ arrived. I know it was there but it seems we are really working on it now. It'll be 3-4 years before we know if it pays off. Even Di Girolamo is an older punt were hoping to develop as a late bloomer. Otherwise most other exciting prospects are 19 or younger. It needs more time before we write it off. You can probably run the U23s per week for the same price as one bobby Reid. I like bobby but if it was him or the academy I think we'd benefit more from the academy. Low cost, low risk and high reward.