Updates

[Top Robin]

Why can't Lee keep us updated on possible signing targets. I know he can't give away their names and clubs involved for obvious reasons but he could at least update us in a general way. For example, all I need is for him to say that we are after a striker or a midfielder, have had formal discussions, have put a bid in and would hope to get a final outcome by Tuesday next week. That is surely not putting the deal in jeopardy by giving too much away, it keeps the most important people...the fans updated and it's shows that Lee does have a degree of competence,  is actually doing something to improve things and should keep us happy. This `keep the fans in the dark' thing is really annoying and disrespectful.  It would also stop me checking Otib every hour or so! 

[Bar BS3]

LJ- "I need a box to box midfield player (replace with any position that he might want). Hello club XYZ, I'm interested in player XYZ"

Club XYZ- "hello Lee, he wasn't for sale, but we know from all your very useful updates to supporters that you are desperate for a player like XYZ, so if you want him that badly, I'm going to quote you double the price"

 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Why can't Lee keep us updated on possible signing targets. I know he can't give away their names and clubs involved for obvious reasons but he could at least update us in a general way. For example, all I need is for him to say that we are after a striker or a midfielder, have had formal discussions, have put a bid in and would hope to get a final outcome by Tuesday next week. That is surely not putting the deal in jeopardy by giving too much away, it keeps the most important people...the fans updated and it's shows that Lee does have a degree of competence,  is actually doing something to improve things and should keep us happy. This `keep the fans in the dark' thing is really annoying and disrespectful.  It would also stop me checking Otib every hour or so! 

If you're not on the wind up.. because it'll severely weaken our negotiating position. Remember summer 15/16 - Gayle, Gray, Maguire.. all of those moves his the national press - none of them went through. Agents would use the information to try and get more money, alert other clubs and try and drag it out.

The club don't owe us any information if it inhibits their ability to get transfers completed. If they gave us specific dates of hopeful completion it would just give fans yet another statement to criticise if it wasn't done to the target date.

I'm assuming you're on the wind up but if you aren't it's a very naive point of view about how should transfers work. 

[Top Robin]

17 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If you're not on the wind up.. because it'll severely weaken our negotiating position. Remember summer 15/16 - Gayle, Gray, Maguire.. all of those moves his the national press - none of them went through. Agents would use the information to try and get more money, alert other clubs and try and drag it out.

The club don't owe us any information if it inhibits their ability to get transfers completed. If they gave us specific dates of hopeful completion it would just give fans yet another statement to criticise if it wasn't done to the target date.

I'm assuming you're on the wind up but if you aren't it's a very naive point of view about how should transfers work. 

I did say no names of players or clubs

[Monkeh]

Just now, Top Robin said:

I did say no names of players or clubs

you mean like when johnson said after the cheltenham game that we had bids out for players?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Top Robin said:

I did say no names of players or clubs

Doesn't matter. Other than appeasing impatient fans it wouldn't benefit us in any way to reveal which positions we're targeting or when we hope to conclude a deal. 

Lee has no obligation to keep fans 'updated' and it doesn't show 'competence' to do so. 

[robin_unreliant]

How do you think it will go down with our keepers if LJ says he's after a new keeper. Then we can't sign one and have to go with what we've got. Not very clever man management strategy there. I'm all for hearing nothing until they actually sign.

[JamesBCFC]

7 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

I did say no names of players or clubs

LJ- "We want a goalkeeper"

*Every club in the country doubles price of their goalkeeper if Bristol City make a bid.*

 

 

[Top Robin]

Alright keep your hair on.... just frustrated folks!! :laugh: :-D 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Top Robin said:

Alright keep your hair on.... just frustrated folks!! :-D 

I prefer a summer like this moving quietly without much panic and desperation to 15/16. That summer we were clearly in a bit of a mess and has those excruciating couple of weeks where everyone seemed to reject us.

I'm sure there's a couple more to come in, the squad needs it in my opinion, but I'm glad we're not visibly desperate.

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Doesn't matter. Other than appeasing impatient fans it wouldn't benefit us in any way to reveal which positions we're targeting or when we hope to conclude a deal. 

Lee has no obligation to keep fans 'updated' and it doesn't show 'competence' to do so. 

You beat to it PF. 

Some fans just can't seem to handle impatience.

[Ian M]

The other plus of not signing many players is that LJ won't be tempted to throw them all in first game. We finished strongly by picking a consistent XI. We have replaced the two players that left the club following those games and the starting XI against Barnsley will therefore not be a million miles away from that selection and we might bag a win on opening day  

[Top Robin]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You beat to it PF. 

Some fans just can't seem to handle impatience.

Wish you'd posted that sooner 

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The other plus of not signing many players is that LJ won't be tempted to throw them all in first game. We finished strongly by picking a consistent XI. We have replaced the two players that left the club following those games and the starting XI against Barnsley will therefore not be a million miles away from that selection and we might bag a win on opening day  

While it did lead to an unsettled side and many only getting a bit-part role for a while, a transfer window with lots of signings was very necessary IMO.

The previous squad was a bare minimum and desperately needed fattening out. Also very happy we did it with younger players with potential.

[Hellfire Corner]

1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

Why can't Lee keep us updated on possible signing targets. I know he can't give away their names and clubs involved for obvious reasons but he could at least update us in a general way. For example, all I need is for him to say that we are after a striker or a midfielder, have had formal discussions, have put a bid in and would hope to get a final outcome by Tuesday next week. That is surely not putting the deal in jeopardy by giving too much away, it keeps the most important people...the fans updated and it's shows that Lee does have a degree of competence,  is actually doing something to improve things and should keep us happy. This `keep the fans in the dark' thing is really annoying and disrespectful.  It would also stop me checking Otib every hour or so! 

I wish for the exact opposite. A summer of no transfer updates, rumour or news would be a welcome break. It would strengthen the club negotiating position, make the signings a welcome surprise when they happen and would save us all having to trawl through mountains of absolute trash in the media. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Blimey - Bit of an attack on the OP !!!

Ive heard managers in the last week - Jose for one saying the exact positions they are trying to sign for , so some , a fair few coaches do

In addition , often it is apparent to all and sundry what club needs what position and how desperately

(I bet Angers drove a hard deal knowing we needed to replace Tammy)

And once we show our hand to any club about any player we are playing poker but showing our hand to some degree

 

Having said all that , other than to appease supporters, I can see little or nil value in advertising anything we don't need to and, despite the fact we'd all, or virtually all love to know what may be in the pipeline,  I'd back Lee and the Club totally on their restricted talk about transfers

 

Where I think they need to be careful is not to mislead supporters ,at any point , certainly without sound reason 

Tomlin was a recent one but can understand to some degree why LJ said what he did

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, Ian M said:

The other plus of not signing many players is that LJ won't be tempted to throw them all in first game. We finished strongly by picking a consistent XI. We have replaced the two players that left the club following those games and the starting XI against Barnsley will therefore not be a million miles away from that selection and we might bag a win on opening day  

I like this.  We needed:

- a right back - we got one

- a striker - we got one, plus the return of Engvall

we offloaded a player we couldn't fit into our team (and who caused problems imho)

- Tomlin and pocketed best part of £3m

we made no further attempt (imho) to bring in our loans from the end of the season

- Cotterill - did okay, but tailed off

- Giefer - didn't really adapt, and on that basis was no better than what we had, and you could argue not as good.

- Matthews - not anything to add

I sense the squad have a togetherness from Tenerife.  LJ probably knows 9 of his starting line-up, and the challenge will be for all of the squad to challenge those in possession for their shirt.

Those 9 for me (assuming no more incoming before Barnsley) are:

GK Fielding

RB Pisano

LB Bryan

CBs Flint / Wright

RM/W ?

CMs Smith / Pack 

LM/W Paterson

FW ?

ST Diedhiou

I think we've got O'Dowda and Brownhill challenging for RM/W and Reid and Engvall for the FW shirts..

 

[BRISTOL86]

It's really nothing new for fans to not know what's going on with regards transfer dealings. This is not a Bristol City/Lee Johnson thing. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blimey - Bit of an attack on the OP !!!

Ive heard managers in the last week - Jose for one saying the exact positions they are trying to sign for , so some , a fair few coaches do

In addition , often it is apparent to all and sundry what club needs what position and how desperately

(I bet Angers drove a hard deal knowing we needed to replace Tammy)

And once we show our hand to any club about any player we are playing poker but showing our hand to some degree

 

Having said all that , other than to appease supporters, I can see little or nil value in advertising anything we don't need to and, despite the fact we'd all, or virtually all love to know what may be in the pipeline,  I'd back Lee and the Club totally on their restricted talk about transfers

 

Where I think they need to be careful is not to mislead supporters ,at any point , certainly without sound reason 

Tomlin was a recent one but can understand to some degree why LJ said what he did

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

Yep. Saying 'Manchester United want you' massively weakens the selling clubs position unless they're an elite club themselves. Bit different when you're Bristol City....

[Spud55]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

Exactly, Man U or equivalent side declaring an interest in a player can actually lower the price as if the player becomes unsettled the parent club will be more likely to let them leave.  Eg lets say West Ham want Flint, currently we can hold out for pretty much any price we want, if they come out and say publicly that they want flint, he will want to go and means that we can either say no and potentially have a player who no longer wants to be around on our books, or we can accept a slightly worse offer and avoid that.

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

Absolutely right. Most top managers with bottomless budgets do the same thing. Thats one advantage of being at a super club with huge financial clout.

Clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, PSG, both Manchester clubs can afford pretty much any player.

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

''Tis a fair point Dave , and as I say I see few benefits in doing so 

Of course , You could argue,  that by the same token , to give fans something,  Lee could talk about Vassell in similar terms to unsettle the player [ I'm absolutely not saying he should - merely likely to antagonise the parent club)

Phil Brown was another saying what positions he'd like to strengthen and Southend are no Man U !!!  (Still don't see the benefits )

We don't , and do things in a different way and I agree with how we conduct our business

[JamesBCFC]

24 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blimey - Bit of an attack on the OP !!!

Ive heard managers in the last week - Jose for one saying the exact positions they are trying to sign for , so some , a fair few coaches do

In addition , often it is apparent to all and sundry what club needs what position and how desperately

(I bet Angers drove a hard deal knowing we needed to replace Tammy)

And once we show our hand to any club about any player we are playing poker but showing our hand to some degree

 

Having said all that , other than to appease supporters, I can see little or nil value in advertising anything we don't need to and, despite the fact we'd all, or virtually all love to know what may be in the pipeline,  I'd back Lee and the Club totally on their restricted talk about transfers

 

Where I think they need to be careful is not to mislead supporters ,at any point , certainly without sound reason 

Tomlin was a recent one but can understand to some degree why LJ said what he did

 

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

Who the manager is probably plays a small part too.

 

It could be argued that Mourinho is a higher profile one than LJ

[Phileas Fogg]

23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Blimey - Bit of an attack on the OP !!!

Ive heard managers in the last week - Jose for one saying the exact positions they are trying to sign for , so some , a fair few coaches do

In addition , often it is apparent to all and sundry what club needs what position and how desperately

(I bet Angers drove a hard deal knowing we needed to replace Tammy)

And once we show our hand to any club about any player we are playing poker but showing our hand to some degree

 

Having said all that , other than to appease supporters, I can see little or nil value in advertising anything we don't need to and, despite the fact we'd all, or virtually all love to know what may be in the pipeline,  I'd back Lee and the Club totally on their restricted talk about transfers

 

Where I think they need to be careful is not to mislead supporters ,at any point , certainly without sound reason 

Tomlin was a recent one but can understand to some degree why LJ said what he did

Wasn't intended to be attack really, but the need for instant gratification is naive. It's a symptom of Twitter spewing constant random rumours and people needing their fix. 

Clubs like United or Real Madrid are a bit different. They can say what they like, almost every single player in the world would want a move there if those clubs were interested and they can force moves by declaring interest and unsettling players. 

The bit I found annoying in the post was implying LJ was 'incompetent' and not showing enough 'respect' to fans by operating with more secrecy. Managers at clubs of our stature will always be secretive for the reasons discussed in this thread. Cotterill tried to be secretive, but going for ambitious targets meant the moves became public knowledge pretty quickly. Fans don't have a divine right to know everything, it would make things more difficult if they did.

I'd love to know everything that goes on at the club, it would be fascinating to know what actually happens - not just what we're told. I'm glad it's secret though, probably better that way.

People like the OP need to show a bit more patience. I'm sure we've got a couple more to bring in.

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wasn't intended to be attack really, but the need for instant gratification is naive. It's a symptom of Twitter spewing constant random rumours and people needing their fix. 

Clubs like United or Real Madrid are a bit different. They can say what they like, almost every single player in the world would want a move there if those clubs were interested and they can force moves by declaring interest and unsettling players. 

The bit I found annoying in the post was implying LJ was 'incompetent' and not showing enough 'respect' to fans by operating with more secrecy. Managers at clubs of our stature will always be secretive for the reasons discussed in this thread. Cotterill tried to be secretive, but going for ambitious targets meant the moves became public knowledge pretty quickly. Fans don't have a divine right to know everything, it would make things more difficult if they did.

I'd love to know everything that goes on at the club, it would be fascinating to know what actually happens - not just what we're told. I'm glad it's secret though, probably better that way.

People like the OP need to show a bit more patience. I'm sure we've got a couple more to bring in.

Agree mate , would think that most of City's employees don't get a sniff about possible transfers these days , let alone supporters !!

Rightly so for all the reasons debated

Think the OP is merely desperate for news (as we all get a bit) and the OP was probably badly worded

In my work , you had to accept one of your best mates might not be able to breathe what he was working on and you just have to accept that's the way it is , and accept there's a reason why

[BCFC_Dan]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

- Cotterill - did okay, but tailed off

 

 

The value of Cotterill was that he was an experienced player at a time when we needed calm heads. We were on a horrible run of form and the pressure on the likes of O'Dowda and Paterson to perform would have been pretty great. We'd also just sold Freeman who for all his faults was fairly experienced and consistent (he may have been frustrating but from what I recall he seldom gave the ball away in dangerous positions). We needed someone who could deliver a good ball but who could also remain calm enough under pressure to do so, and someone who would always be available to pass to.

He did fade after a while but he'd done his job by that point. The pressure was reduced and the younger wingers could come back in and do their thing again, which they did pretty well.

We haven't replaced Cotterill. Hopefully we won't need to as the other players will be more experienced and ideally we won't get into such a mess again, but if we're in a bad way in January again we might wish we had him.

[downendcity]

49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the difference with Jose is that when he declares an interest he is doing so at a club with a massive position of strength, and does it to unsettle the player.  We aren't really in a similar position unless we are trying to sign lower league players.

It's like Barca with Coutinho.

They obviously want him, the player knows they want him and Liverpool know they want him but don't want to sell him.

Barca know they will have to pay top dollar, but that is not a problem for them so they are prepared so to do, it's just a question of destabilising the player and club to the degree that the deal becomes inevitable.

However, we are not Barca! 

[Davefevs]

That's fair Dan. Perhaps I should've said overall he did ok. Decent at start, not do decent at the end.