Gareth Thomas - Hate In Football (Merged)

[Guest Beanhead9]

If anyone gets the chance I'd recommend watching Gareth Thomas - Hate In Football on the BBC I Player. The programme looks at homophobia on the terraces and try's to understand what support a homosexual footballer would have in the modern game. As a City fan I've never really given it a second thought, I have no idea what the clubs policy is on reporting abuse and I've heard it before and probably even naively joined in. Gareth attends an away match with Brighton fans and states there's a normality and acceptance to homophobic behaviour in football and I think he's spot on, it would be good to better understand what positive action our clubs taken on the subject. Gareth concludes by putting forward a code of conduct to all clubs in the football league and the key points include; All programmes, season tickets and match day tickets to highlight a zero tolerance to homophobia and details on how to report if observed. Pre-match video played before every game stating the zero tolerance policy. A minimum 3 year ban for any fan found guilty. Personally I dont think it's PC gone mad just common sense in a modern society.

[Londoner]

7 minutes ago, Beanhead9 said:

If anyone gets the chance I'd recommend watching Gareth Thomas - Hate In Football on the BBC I Player. The programme looks at homophobia on the terraces and try's to understand what support a homosexual footballer would have in the modern game. As a City fan I've never really given it a second thought, I have no idea what the clubs policy is on reporting abuse and I've heard it before and probably even naively joined in. Gareth attends an away match with Brighton fans and states there's a normality and acceptance to homophobic behaviour in football and I think he's spot on, it would be good to better understand what positive action our clubs taken on the subject. Gareth concludes by putting forward a code of conduct to all clubs in the football league and the key points include; All programmes, season tickets and match day tickets to highlight a zero tolerance to homophobia and details on how to report if observed. Pre-match video played before every game stating the zero tolerance policy. A minimum 3 year ban for any fan found guilty. Personally I dont think it's PC gone mad just common sense in a modern society.

I have done research into this, it came to the conclusion that homophobic abuse will be far more prevalent than racism in today's football society....simply because of the numbers involved.

[Ealing Robin]

Was at a conference last year where he did a key note speech about his career and coming out etc, and it really was moving stuff. He was queried about the subject and it's relationship with football, he stated without a doubt there would be homosexual footballers, but cannot see a platform for them to come out due to abuse they would receive from the terraces.

[City Rocker]

11 minutes ago, Beanhead9 said:

Personally I dont think it's PC gone mad just common sense in a modern society.

Agree with that, even though I often feel a bit nostalgic for the edginess and laddishness of 70s/80s football, we've moved on haven't we? Some years ago I went with a group of non-regular football followers to a City game, one of who was a gay female, quite a streetwise girl. She was pretty shocked at the homophobic chanting she heard - I hadn't even noticed it. I don't think she's been to (male) football since. I've been much more aware of it since then.

I would hate to lose that intense, edgy rivalry that we enjoy at football, but no one should feel they're not welcome to join in.

[shelts]

1 hour ago, Beanhead9 said:

If anyone gets the chance I'd recommend watching Gareth Thomas - Hate In Football on the BBC I Player. The programme looks at homophobia on the terraces and try's to understand what support a homosexual footballer would have in the modern game. As a City fan I've never really given it a second thought, I have no idea what the clubs policy is on reporting abuse and I've heard it before and probably even naively joined in. Gareth attends an away match with Brighton fans and states there's a normality and acceptance to homophobic behaviour in football and I think he's spot on, it would be good to better understand what positive action our clubs taken on the subject. Gareth concludes by putting forward a code of conduct to all clubs in the football league and the key points include; All programmes, season tickets and match day tickets to highlight a zero tolerance to homophobia and details on how to report if observed. Pre-match video played before every game stating the zero tolerance policy. A minimum 3 year ban for any fan found guilty. Personally I dont think it's PC gone mad just common sense in a modern society.

Interesting . Is swearing allowed at football?

[TRL]

It's an interesting one. I wonder just how many people are homophobic and how many just sing out such things as "Banter" or see it as just something that is sung at football?

I have no doubt there are homophobes at football matches. But I really do wonder if all singing actually really hate or are scared of gays. I know it has little difference  on how it makes a lesbian or gay feel. I really do think a lot of it is akin to shouting "i hate you" to your mum or dad, you don't really mean it.. and that doesn't make you a parentphobe..... or whatever the correct term is.

That's not to say there are a lot of homophobes out there and this is not meant to brush it under the carpet.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

Merciless and brutal pisstaking is/ was always a big part of going to matches. I don`t think it necessarily indicates that the perpetrators are prejudiced.

[Steve Watts]

8 hours ago, shelts said:

Interesting . Is swearing allowed at football?

Yes....swearing is still allowed at football in the 21st century when you get here...

[Steve Watts]

11 minutes ago, Juan Kerr said:

Merciless and brutal pisstaking is/ was always a big part of going to matches. I don`t think it necessarily indicates that the perpetrators are prejudiced.

But the problem is the perception that being gay is something to take the piss about and make fun of.  That's just akin to starting a sentence with "I'm not homophobic but....."

While that mindset is still prevalent nothing will change.  

[Maesknoll Red]

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

[The Humble Realist]

4 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

I agree with this analysis of where the world is going...where does it stop is the key questiin...

I put a post up a while ago about the 'she's a whore song ' and whether it was appropriate given Clarke had lost his dad recently...I partly was playing devil's advocate but it indicates where the world/football could end up.   

The Jamie Cuerton song is slanderous...but does that even matter or is it just banter? 

 

[Robbored]

9 hours ago, Beanhead9 said:

IGareth concludes by putting forward a code of conduct to all clubs in the football league and the key points include; All programmes, season tickets and match day tickets to highlight a zero tolerance to homophobia and details on how to report if observed. Pre-match video played before every game stating the zero tolerance policy. A minimum 3 year ban for any fan found guilty. Personally I dont think it's PC gone mad just common sense in a modern society.

He's absolutely spot on. Measures such as those are about the only thing that would stop those moronic supporters that all clubs have from yelling homophobic abuse.

A similar approach has worked with the racial abuse that so many black players were subjected to. 

Ive seen Gareth Thomas many times on tv talking about his sexuality and most people, me included have tremendous admiration for him coming out in the rough, tough macho world of rugby.

[And Its Smith]

As this thread proves, there are still cavemen supporters who think it is okay to belittle someone for their sexuality so any football who came out would get dogs abuse.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

But the problem is the perception that being gay is something to take the piss about and make fun of.  That's just akin to starting a sentence with "I'm not homophobic but....."

While that mindset is still prevalent nothing will change.  

I wasn`t condoning it as such, just highlighting that crowds/ mobs are brutal. Remember 1000s of fans asking if Victoria Beckham took it up the arse? It`s like psychological warfare, and crude "mind games".

[Maesknoll Red]

8 minutes ago, RedDave said:

As this thread proves, there are still cavemen supporters who think it is okay to belittle someone for their sexuality so any football who came out would get dogs abuse.

You are reading a different thread to me, I can't see any banner waving support for abuse.

[Robbored]

54 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

Abuse of faith,  colour and sexuality are sacrosanct in the eyes of the law and quite right to.

Taling the piss out of fat people, gingers, people with poor dress sense is not quite the same thing. Those people could do something about it...

[CyderInACan]

10 minutes ago, RedDave said:

As this thread proves, there are still cavemen supporters who think it is okay to belittle someone for their sexuality so any football who came out would get dogs abuse.

I disagree. There'd be the odd moron making a comment no doubt but the law of averages dictates that. Society has moved on. 

 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I disagree. There'd be the odd moron making a comment no doubt but the law of averages dictates that. Society has moved on. 

 

No way.  One person would start a song and there would be a fair few joining in I reckon.  Gang mentality would make true opinions come out 

[reddoh]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

steady on but the positive is I am not ginger just grey.

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

You are reading a different thread to me, I can't see any banner waving support for abuse.

Someone likening it to swearing and others playing it down.  Nobody is going to come on and say that they are pro gay abuse so I'm reading between the lines a bit 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

Likening homophobic abuse to dress sense shows you don't understand it fully.

[CyderInACan]

Just now, RedDave said:

No way.  One person would start a song and there would be a fair few joining in I reckon.  Gang mentality would make true opinions come out 

Disagree again. But then "a fair few" persist in thinking the earth is flat and that we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen. 

A gay footballer is a non-issue I'd suggest. 

[Maesknoll Red]

2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Likening homophobic abuse to dress sense shows you don't understand it fully.

Where am I likening it to homophobic abuse, I was just considering where do you draw the line, in essence piss taking is mocking someone different, less fortunate or in a situation whether self inflicted or not.  So, again, where do you draw the line?

[Luxo Jr.]

If you still say that action like this is "PC gone mad", or "you won't be able to make fun of anything any more", it suggests you still don't fully understand what you're dealing with here. It's not about appearance, which we all know you can change - homophobic behaviour is quite simply attacking someone for who they are, for something they cannot change. If you can't realise that even humorous allusions to it are unacceptable then I can't help you.

[Negan]

It's banter at the end of the day, you'll never ever stop it. When we sing "does your boyfriend know you're here" to Brighton fans we know that the majority of them aren't gay, in fact probably none of them are but it's just a football chant. We live in a day and age where someone finds something offensive. We've gone to away games and been called Welsh sheep shaggers, inbreds, yokels etc, doesn't bother me one bit as it's just football banter. We'll soon not be allowed to chant anything but "CITY" incase it offends somebody, and even then someone would pick fault with that. No doubt someone will find offence with this post. 

[gl1]

Homophobia - a dislike, hatred fear of homosexual people,  mainly gay man rather than lesbian women, not exclusively, but primarily so. The word phobic is the key here, as in agoraphobic, the fear of open spaces, arachnophobia - the fear of spiders etc.

Are football supporters in the main homophobic? I have no idea, there are no openly gay players to see if they got shouted abuse at. Until we get one visiting the Gate no one can really say. I know Justin Fashanu used to get abuse from terraces around the country, but that was back then, when Bernard Manning was considered funny and white actors used to black up and overdo Indian accents on 'It Aint half hot mum' I dont feel you can draw comparisons.

Does chanting at Brighton fans 'Does your boyfriend know you're here?' or 'We can see you holding hands' make us as fans homophobic? As a phobia suggests a dislike, fear or hatred of a group of people I dont feel these chants are offensive. Indeed, if the Brighton fans were offended why would they respond with 'One nil to the Nancy Boys'? For me at least it shows a healthy dose of football humour banter.

Now, a guy standing up and shouting offensive remarks about someones sexuality is another matter entirely, but in all my years of watching football at the Gate this has never happened. So is the Ashton Gate crowd PC or just not given the chance to show their true colours as we dont have any openly gay players? In years gone by I have heard 'You black b*****d' shouted at black players, but not not in this millennia, so i think that people have become more tolerant, or just as likely, feel unable to shout abuse at a group they have a phobia of. Until we get an openly gay player, these arguments of homophobia are moot and cannot be tested.

I think for whatever reasons, religious, ideologically, people can have their own opinions about homosexuality, and they are just as valid an opinion as mine or yours. Its only when they force their opinions or use language intended to inflame hatred, belittle or upset someone does it become an issue. I am a gay man and I have a very religious friend who considers it a 'sin'. He doesn't judge me (only his God can do that, apparently) and I dont judge him for having a different view of my sexuality. He socialises with me and my husband, and has from time to time watched City at the Gate. If we had an entire team of gay players he would still watch, enjoy the sport and not let his faith taint his experience of the match. If I tell him that he is wrong and should accept homosexuality does that not make me a bigot as I am being intolerant of his faith?

I'm sure there is homopbia on the terraces, just as there may well be in other sports, your job, the church, my gym or your knitting circle, but the key, as it always has been is until a player comes out and we see the reaction, we cant really make much from this debate.

 

 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

It's banter at the end of the day, you'll never ever stop it. 

Monkey chants aimed at black players in the past were banter?

 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Banter is part and parcel of the atmosphere at football and I have no problem with most of it. But there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and for me that is personal attacks on individuals, be they players, opposition supporters, police or stewards (especially female). Chants aimed at individuals regarding their look, their sexuality, sexual disease, race or religion are a huge no-no for me. 

[WTFiGO!?!]

 

40 minutes ago, gl1 said:

Homophobia - a dislike, hatred fear of homosexual people,  mainly gay man rather than lesbian women, not exclusively, but primarily so. The word phobic is the key here, as in agoraphobic, the fear of open spaces, arachnophobia - the fear of spiders etc.

Are football supporters in the main homophobic? I have no idea, there are no openly gay players to see if they got shouted abuse at. Until we get one visiting the Gate no one can really say. I know Justin Fashanu used to get abuse from terraces around the country, but that was back then, when Bernard Manning was considered funny and white actors used to black up and overdo Indian accents on 'It Aint half hot mum' I dont feel you can draw comparisons.

Does chanting at Brighton fans 'Does your boyfriend know you're here?' or 'We can see you holding hands' make us as fans homophobic? As a phobia suggests a dislike, fear or hatred of a group of people I dont feel these chants are offensive. Indeed, if the Brighton fans were offended why would they respond with 'One nil to the Nancy Boys'? For me at least it shows a healthy dose of football humour banter.

Now, a guy standing up and shouting offensive remarks about someones sexuality is another matter entirely, but in all my years of watching football at the Gate this has never happened. So is the Ashton Gate crowd PC or just not given the chance to show their true colours as we dont have any openly gay players? In years gone by I have heard 'You black b*****d' shouted at black players, but not not in this millennia, so i think that people have become more tolerant, or just as likely, feel unable to shout abuse at a group they have a phobia of. Until we get an openly gay player, these arguments of homophobia are moot and cannot be tested.

I think for whatever reasons, religious, ideologically, people can have their own opinions about homosexuality, and they are just as valid an opinion as mine or yours. Its only when they force their opinions or use language intended to inflame hatred, belittle or upset someone does it become an issue. I am a gay man and I have a very religious friend who considers it a 'sin'. He doesn't judge me (only his God can do that, apparently) and I dont judge him for having a different view of my sexuality. He socialises with me and my husband, and has from time to time watched City at the Gate. If we had an entire team of gay players he would still watch, enjoy the sport and not let his faith taint his experience of the match. If I tell him that he is wrong and should accept homosexuality does that not make me a bigot as I am being intolerant of his faith?

I'm sure there is homopbia on the terraces, just as there may well be in other sports, your job, the church, my gym or your knitting circle, but the key, as it always has been is until a player comes out and we see the reaction, we cant really make much from this debate.

 

 

I've been mulling over what to post and you've covered my central thoughts.  

I can remember incidents of genuine racism at AG in the early 90's.  I can remember it kicking off between City fans in 1998 ("You're the pride of Pakistan!") when we played West Brom.  I can remember this very debate after the East End was chanting, en mass, "Poppadom" at Leicester circa 2008!

The key here is intent.  

Traditionally, football fans take the piss out of each other over anything they can find, any cheap or quirky stereotype will do.  Local characteristics of the area the opposition is from is such an obvious target, it'd be wasteful not to peddle it.  That's the currency.  Brighton will receive the same treatment as the Welsh for their beastiality or those dirty bastard, wife beating Northerners!  (Is domestic abuse banter still acceptable in 21st Century Britain?  Won't somebody think of the children!).

I badly digress.  

The point I've lost is black players had to go through a horrific time as attitudes were eroding.  But went through it they did.  They didn't have the choice to not come out, so there was no hiding place.  

We have a bit of a 'cold war' on our hands re attitudes towards gay people as there is no litmus test.  

Another anacdote that comes to mind is that Everton FC were the last top flight club to sign a black player, in 1994.  The directors were petrified as they feared the clubs then perceived racist element would be exposed nationally.  However, Daniel Amokachi proved extremely popular with supporters and holds cult hero status to this day.

I largely feel that the gay community needs to take courage in football and come out, rather than assume homophobic bigotry is rife within the game.  I think you will find the vast majority of football fans would prove supportive and any tension would be with the minority and be snubbed out.  

Easy for me to say, I know.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

 

I've been mulling over what to post and you've covered my central thoughts.  

I can remember incidents of genuine racism at AG in the early 90's.  I can remember it kicking off between City fans in 1998 ("You're the pride of Pakistan!") when we played West Brom.  I can remember this very debate after the East End was chanting, en mass, "Poppadom" at Leicester circa 2008!

The key here is intent.  

Traditionally, football fans take the piss out of each other over anything they can find, any cheap or quirky stereotype will do.  Local characteristics of the area the opposition is from is such an obvious target, it'd be wasteful not to peddle it.  That's the currency.  Brighton will receive the same treatment as the Welsh for their beastiality or those dirty bastard, wife beating Northerners!  (Is domestic abuse banter still acceptable in 21st Century Britain?  Won't somebody think of the children!).

I badly digress.  

The point I've lost is black players had to go through a horrific time as attitudes were eroding.  But went through it they did.  They didn't have the choice to not come out, so there was no hiding place.  

We have a bit of a 'cold war' on our hands re attitudes towards gay people as there is no litmus test.  

Another anacdote that comes to mind is that Everton FC were the last top flight club to sign a black player, in 1994.  The directors were petrified as they feared the clubs then perceived racist element would be exposed nationally.  However, Daniel Amokachi proved extremely popular with supporters and holds cult hero status to this day.

I largely feel that the gay community needs to take courage in football and come out, rather than assume homophobic bigotry is rife within the game.  I think you will find the vast majority of football fans would prove supportive and any tension would be with the minority and be snubbed out.  

Easy for me to say, I know.

Spot on WTFIGO.

Another well thought out reply.

[EnderMB]

I remember there was a poll, either from the Premier League or the BBC, that highlighted a shocking statistic of how many people would stop supporting their team if one of their players came out as gay.

In many ways, I'm not surprised. The average fan in the ground is different to those we'll see on a forum. There's also the widely held belief that the fans intimidate the opposition. If their team needs a win, and their fans know what buttons to push on their opposing players, they're going to push them. Some people will claim to love equality, but they'll happily chant racist/homophobic slurs, and bring up painful moments of that persons past.

With that being said, I don't believe that it's an impossible problem to solve. It's just down to the club to ensure that these people are no longer able to attend games. Atmosphere or "banter" be damned. Watching football is not a right, and if the club thinks you're being a hateful bellend, then they should be within their rights to ensure you never attend that ground again.

[And Its Smith]

55 minutes ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

It's banter at the end of the day, you'll never ever stop it. When we sing "does your boyfriend know you're here" to Brighton fans we know that the majority of them aren't gay, in fact probably none of them are but it's just a football chant. We live in a day and age where someone finds something offensive. We've gone to away games and been called Welsh sheep shaggers, inbreds, yokels etc, doesn't bother me one bit as it's just football banter. We'll soon not be allowed to chant anything but "CITY" incase it offends somebody, and even then someone would pick fault with that. No doubt someone will find offence with this post. 

It's not banter. You don't get it 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

In the end you won't be able to the the piss out of anyone/anything, as it is belittling or disrespectful.  Taking the piss out of gingers, those with poor dress sense, full kit wanchors, fat people, teams playing poorly.......  where does it stop?  A bit of a trite question, but with some validity.

I think it's easy to make a slippery slope argument but it is not that hard to define. Ultimately it comes down to not taking the piss out of things that people are not able to control. There is a world of difference between mocking someone's sexuality, race or disability and mocking their dress sense or a poor football team. It's not the same thing at all. 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

I remember there was a poll, either from the Premier League or the BBC, that highlighted a shocking statistic of how many people would stop supporting their team if one of their players came out as gay.

In many ways, I'm not surprised. The average fan in the ground is different to those we'll see on a forum. There's also the widely held belief that the fans intimidate the opposition. If their team needs a win, and their fans know what buttons to push on their opposing players, they're going to push them. Some people will claim to love equality, but they'll happily chant racist/homophobic slurs, and bring up painful moments of that persons past.

With that being said, I don't believe that it's an impossible problem to solve. It's just down to the club to ensure that these people are no longer able to attend games. Atmosphere or "banter" be damned. Watching football is not a right, and if the club thinks you're being a hateful bellend, then they should be within their rights to ensure you never attend that ground again.

I think the other thing to note as well is a I suspect the number of people who say they would stop supporting their team is a lot higher than the number who would actually stop supporting their team if it actually came down to it. Back in the dark days of the 70s and 80s there were supporters who claimed they would stop supporting their team, or the national team, if there were black players. I suspect few people actually did when it came down to it. 

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

It's banter at the end of the day, you'll never ever stop it. When we sing "does your boyfriend know you're here" to Brighton fans we know that the majority of them aren't gay, in fact probably none of them are but it's just a football chant. We live in a day and age where someone finds something offensive. We've gone to away games and been called Welsh sheep shaggers, inbreds, yokels etc, doesn't bother me one bit as it's just football banter. We'll soon not be allowed to chant anything but "CITY" incase it offends somebody, and even then someone would pick fault with that. No doubt someone will find offence with this post. 

I was going to cite that one as I think that qualifies as banter; it's good natured and done for a laugh and plays on a characteristic of the whole town.

It crosses the line where a single player or manager gets specific abuse (the worst in my memory was somebody shouting "I hope your wife dies" at a manager whose wife was seriously ill) for something that they are rather than for something they have done: being a cheat, criminal, dirty player, bad mouthing your club, whatever.

The first openly gay player may get hardly any nasty abuse, that would be restricted to a very small number of individuals, but they would get lots of "amusing witticisms" shouted such as, in the words of Ricky Gervaise, "nice tackle" which would get very wearing.

[Maesknoll Red]

I'm not so sure it's not hard to define.  What was acceptable yesterday, becomes unacceptable today, what's acceptable today will offend someone and then become unacceptable tomorrow.  

[TRL]

18 minutes ago, RedDave said:

It's not banter. You don't get it 

I guess it's seen as banter as it is aimed at the opposition crowd as a whole. Not at a individual gay person.

 

If hate was aimed at a individual who was gay, rather than a whole crowd of whom zero may be gay, then it would be homophobia.

 

A difficult one to decide on really. I personally do not it is homophobia when not specifically targeted. But I understand gay and lesbians don't like the fact that people are using their sexuality as a derogatory term to abuse others.

[The Humble Realist]

Does your boyfriend know your here to Brighton fans

Always the victim it's never your fault to liverpool fans

Sheep sheep sheep shaggers to Cardiff

Sheep sheep sheep shaggers to us

Inbreds and roundabouts to swindon fans

She's a whore...to Daryll Clarke

Jimmy Saville he's one of your own to leeds 

 

Is there any world where you'd get agreement on which of the above are acceptable to sing and which ones aren't ?

 

Some would say they are all fair game ...others would say they are all unacceptable 

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

Does your boyfriend know your here to Brighton fans

Always the victim it's never your fault to liverpool fans

Sheep sheep sheep shaggers to Cardiff

Sheep sheep sheep shaggers to us

Inbreds and roundabouts to swindon fans

She's a whore...to Daryll Clarke

Jimmy Saville he's one of your own to leeds 

Is there any world where you'd get agreement on which of the above are acceptable to sing and which ones aren't ?

All but the first one are acceptable imv.

[Maesknoll Red]

45 minutes ago, Robbored said:

All but the first one are acceptable imv.

Jimmy Saville taunts OK - classy....   I think that just reiterates my point, someone will always find offence, even if it's on behalf of someone not offended.  Drawing the Line is impossible.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Jimmy Saville taunts OK - classy....   I think just reiterates my point, someone will always find offence, even if it's on behalf of someone not offended.  Drawing the Line is impossible.

Jimmy Saville was a peadophile using  his celebrity to have sex with under age girls and reviled by the public after his death. Shame he never got caught during his lifetime.

Not exactly the same being homosexual or having dark skin.

[TRL]

41 minutes ago, Robbored said:

All but the first one are acceptable imv.

Why are the rest acceptable?  But the gay slur not?  You are still upsetting someone.

I wouldn't mind hearing your rational behind it.  

I think its agreed all chants that have the ability to upset someone are banned or none.  I personally  think none should be banned, unless it is directed directly at some one, not the opposition supporters as a whole.  Very difficult to make a decision as you are opening up a complete ban on chanting a football matches.

 

[TRL]

Just now, Robbored said:

Jimmy Saville was a peadophile using  his celebrity to have sex with under age girls and reviled by the public after his death. Shame he never got caught during his lifetime.

Not exactly the same being homosexual or having dark skin.

but to call a whole section of society paedos is okay?  because of where they come from..  isn't that exactly the same as calling all people from Brighton gay?

[Maesknoll Red]

Just now, Robbored said:

Jimmy Saville was a peadophile using  his celebrity to have sex with under age girls and reviled by the public after his death. Shame he never got caught during his lifetime.

Not exactly the same being homosexual or having dark skin.

So you are happy to use this as banter to opposition fans - I would think inferring paedophillia is a trend of a group of fans, is somewhat worse than asking if their boyfriend knows they are at a football match.

[jj77]

Whatever happened to keeping things to yourself?

[Ian M]

Largely I think in football grounds there would be some initial friction but once a few are "out" the fans would be widely self policing. Where I think the real abuse would take place is over Social Media.

Some people in this world already believe they have the right to say some of the most vile things imaginable just because a player had a bad game. This will become the bigot's playground and there was the stat in that programme that 40% of Britain's LGBT community have had some form of mental health disorder linked to their sexuality and the problems it has caused them in "fitting in" to modern Britain. Who knows what effect this abuse could do to some of them? I hope the authorities come up with a good support system because it won't be long before one of our tabloids outs the first one in the name of "public interest". 

[shelts]

6 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Yes....swearing is still allowed at football in the 21st century when you get here...

Not been to the Gate since we was in the 3rd Division South 

[cockneydave]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Abuse of faith,  colour and sexuality are sacrosanct in the eyes of the law and quite right to.

Taling the piss out of fat people, gingers, people with poor dress sense is not quite the same thing. Those people could do something about it...

But why do it?

[Robbored]

Just now, cockneydave said:

But why do it?

Don't ask me!   I very rarely take the piss out of anyone.

[Maltshoveller]

5 hours ago, jj77 said:

Whatever happened to keeping things to yourself?

100% SPOT ON

I couldnt give a monkey what any player does in their private life

What they do on the pitch is the only thing that matters

 

[gl1]

9 hours ago, TRL said:

A difficult one to decide on really. I personally do not it is homophobia when not specifically targeted. But I understand gay and lesbians don't like the fact that people are using their sexuality as a derogatory term to abuse others.

As a gay man, I find the chants at Brighton fans pretty funny. Its innocuous - we can see you holding hands? Does your boyfriend know you're here? Not really in the same category as 'Kill the queers' (I heard this shouted by an invading group of bigots at a gay pride event in Cardiff maybe 10 years ago)

The misconception that they gay community at large are en masse offended by bigotry is not actually that true. When some politician, I think it was UKIP, correct me if I'm wrong said the floods that were deluging the country at the time was due to gay marriage being legalised was not met with open mouthed indignation from the gay community. We launched a campaign to get 'Its raining men' to number one. I think you straights get more upset than us gay lads do.

I have never had any anti gay comments on any of my sexuality related posts on here. I am also pretty certain that if i was verbally attacked on here, there would wholesale condemnation of his or her comments

I've said it before, but I really do feel that all this homophobia in sport is blown out of all proportion. If one did come out I am pretty sure that he would be accepted pretty quickly. Sure he would get wolf whistles etc, but I dont think there would be too much of a problem with that - he may well like it...

[TRL]

45 minutes ago, gl1 said:

As a gay man, I find the chants at Brighton fans pretty funny. Its innocuous - we can see you holding hands? Does your boyfriend know you're here? Not really in the same category as 'Kill the queers' (I heard this shouted by an invading group of bigots at a gay pride event in Cardiff maybe 10 years ago)

The misconception that they gay community at large are en masse offended by bigotry is not actually that true. When some politician, I think it was UKIP, correct me if I'm wrong said the floods that were deluging the country at the time was due to gay marriage being legalised was not met with open mouthed indignation from the gay community. We launched a campaign to get 'Its raining men' to number one. I think you straights get more upset than us gay lads do.

I have never had any anti gay comments on any of my sexuality related posts on here. I am also pretty certain that if i was verbally attacked on here, there would wholesale condemnation of his or her comments

I've said it before, but I really do feel that all this homophobia in sport is blown out of all proportion. If one did come out I am pretty sure that he would be accepted pretty quickly. Sure he would get wolf whistles etc, but I dont think there would be too much of a problem with that - he may well like it...

Thank you for this reply. Good to hear from a gay giving their thoughts rather than outraged heterosexuals on their behalf.

 

I agree certainly more playful chants than hateful chants. 

[handsofclay]

On 31/07/2017 at 09:27, Robbored said:

Abuse of faith,  colour and sexuality are sacrosanct in the eyes of the law and quite right to.

Taling the piss out of fat people, gingers, people with poor dress sense is not quite the same thing. Those people could do something about it...

As a ginger myself I have long since reached the conclusion that it isn't me who needs to do something about it!

[TRL]

12 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

As a ginger myself I have long since reached the conclusion that it isn't me who needs to do something about it!

I can lend you some clippers if you want, I guess that's me doing something about it!

[handsofclay]

14 minutes ago, TRL said:

I can lend you some clippers if you want, I guess that's me doing something about it!

I can donate some of my brain cells to you if you want, I guess that's me doing something to address your problem.

I've never met you so why the aggressive, bullying response? Made you feel good did it?

[Major Isewater]

22 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the other thing to note as well is a I suspect the number of people who say they would stop supporting their team is a lot higher than the number who would actually stop supporting their team if it actually came down to it. Back in the dark days of the 70s and 80s there were supporters who claimed they would stop supporting their team, or the national team, if there were black players. I suspect few people actually did when it came down to it. 

Who'd want those bigots supporting their club anyway ? 

 

[TRL]

7 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

I can donate some of my brain cells to you if you want, I guess that's me doing something to address your problem.

I've never met you so why the aggressive, bullying response? Made you feel good did it?Insert other media

or maybe i have ginger hair and have clippers? i'll let you decide

[handsofclay]

7 minutes ago, TRL said:

or maybe i have ginger hair and have clippers? i'll let you decide

Neanderthals don't have ginger hair or clippers.

[Major Isewater]

It's a shame that gay and lesbian people feel the need to fight for the right to be themselves.

We should live and let live . I have many gay and lesbian friends and neither their sexuality or their colour blocks our relationships.

 

[TRL]

Just now, handsofclay said:

Neanderthals don't have ginger hair or clippers.

Good to hear phew

[SteelCityRobin]

23 hours ago, TRL said:

 

If hate was aimed at a individual who was gay, rather than a whole crowd of whom zero may be gay, then it would be homophobia.

 

 

I can assure anyone on here that there will always be at least a few gay people at a match for any team, whenever or wherever the match is. 

 

I know someone who is very well known supporter for his team, very well known on twitter etc, who is gay. However only close friends know this, due to the fact of how terrified he is of the abuse he could get if he ever came out. 

Bear in mind that this guy is also married to a woman, and has kids, but he has never been able to feel comfortable in who he is due to the world of homophobia in football, which is a main part of his life. It makes me think of how tough it is to be gay in such a situation  

Some of the saddest bits are that he tells me that he knows of other gay people that go to matches that almost feel scared just in case they might on the off-chance get attacked for who they are, and he tells me how he fears that they may follow the same path as he did and never accept/come to terms that he was gay until recently, when it's too late to be happy and true to oneself. 

 

I think it's just worth thinking about I suppose, that there are tens of thousands of lives in Ashton Gate, any single one of them could be fearing over their safety in a place we all know and love. To me, that's just dreadful..

[RumRed]

34 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

Neanderthals don't have ginger hair or clippers.

DNA evidence shows some were redheads, they were also likely to have used sharp shards of stone/obsidian to trim the excess.  They were however unlikely to have been given the Wahl men's grooming kit from Boots for Christmas.

[jj77]

1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

As a ginger myself I have long since reached the conclusion that it isn't me who needs to do something about it!

The only advice I'd give to a ginger wanting to come out is 'Wear factor 50, the sun is not your friend'.

[AppyDAZE]

This so much reminds me of dear old Alan Partridge...

"Now you are a Gayman...

[steveybadger]

Wow, what a seriously depressing hour. No surprise whatsoever that there are no openly gay male footballers in this country.

- 16 weeks of trying to get an interview with Greg Clarke and being ignored.

- Premier League refusing to be interviewed on camera

- what can only be described as a complete car crash of an interview with Graham Taylor and the Head of Equality at the PFA, who simply didn't have a clue or any plan of action to help any footballer who decided to come out

- the same tired old 'it's only banter' / there's no problem in football / the gays should stop forcing their views on us bollocks to justify the abuse. 

The only highlight was Thomas registering on a Palace fan site and inviting the worst homophobic abusers to meet him in person to discuss why they were posting such shite, and surprise surprise nobody turning up.

All this in 2017.

 

[Spoons]

Shock horror not every gay or lesbian person playing football wants to be a fame hungry reality star like Gareth Thomas !!

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Shock horror not every gay or lesbian person playing football wants to be a fame hungry reality star like Gareth Thomas !!

 

Jesus, you really don't get it, do you?

[steveybadger]

10 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Shock horror not every gay or lesbian person playing football wants to be a fame hungry reality star like Gareth Thomas !!

 

I'd simply suggest taking the time to watch the programme if you genuinely think that's the issue

[Spoons]

3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Jesus, you really don't get it, do you?

I get it , that program had potential to be a good program with a good cause. Ended up being all about Gareth Thomas and his massive ego!! Gay or straight that bloke is a fame hungry reality star out for himself and his career !!

[Spoons]

1 minute ago, steveybadger said:

I'd simply suggest taking the time to watch the programme if you genuinely think that's the issue

I watched the program