Aden Flint - Badly Treated? (Too many merges to mention)

[Londoner]

The club did not need to make public the discussions between flint and lj, regarding the came against Plymouth.

The club did not need to constantly talk about flint being available.

They know what they are doing, it is undermining to the player and I can see it, unsurprisingly most on here cannot.

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Londoner said:

The club did not need to make public the discussions between flint and lj, regarding the came against Plymouth.

The club did not need to constantly talk about flint being available.

They know what they are doing, it is undermining to the player and I can see it, unsurprisingly most on here cannot.

We've turned down bids and LJ has said publicly that the door is still open for Flint. 

I really don't see the problem. Why shouldn't they club let us know that Flint is tempted by a big payday, rather than face the wrath of supporters for selling a popular player, without having let us know that it's Flint's agent who has created this situation, nobody else! 

[Malago]

If you crossed out Aden Flint from the title of your thread and put Lee Johnson in its place you'd be right.

[shelts]

The Club has to say something . It's never going to be what some people want to hear . 

[BCFC_Dan]

11 minutes ago, Londoner said:

The club did not need to make public the discussions between flint and lj, regarding the came against Plymouth.

The club did not need to constantly talk about flint being available.

They know what they are doing, it is undermining to the player and I can see it, unsurprisingly most on here cannot.

Thank goodness you're here to point that out to us.

What you've not managed to explain is what is actually wrong with the club seeking to maximise the value of an asset it holds.

Yes, he's a person, not a stock option or a bar of gold, but he's a well remunerated one, will be even more so if he moves and if he really doesn't want to move the club and manager have made it quite clear that he'd be welcomed back. He operates in a world where most people stay in a job for a few years and then move on, sometimes through their own choosing but sometimes not. He's in the fortunate position of having something available whatever outcome arrives. Did you show this kind of sympathy when the club didn't renew Mark Little's contract?

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

Currently 19 (inc mine) "rubbish" reactions and 1 "snake" reaction to the OP. I'd say this means most people don't agree. I know it's early days for the rubbish reaction, but 19 will take some beating 

I'm sure I could manage it............

[Nibor]

1 minute ago, BCFC_Dan said:

What you've not managed to explain is what is actually wrong with the club seeking to maximise the value of an asset it holds.

What the club have done has the opposite effect.  Effectively, LJ told everyone we're willing to sell, SL capped the maximum price we'll get and JMc fuelled speculation that the player is unhappy and refusing to play.  None of those things make the slightest bit of sense.

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Thank goodness you're here to point that out to us.

What you've not managed to explain is what is actually wrong with the club seeking to maximise the value of an asset it holds.

Yes, he's a person, not a stock option or a bar of gold, but he's a well remunerated one, will be even more so if he moves and if he really doesn't want to move the club and manager have made it quite clear that he'd be welcomed back. He operates in a world where most people stay in a job for a few years and then move on, sometimes through their own choosing but sometimes not. He's in the fortunate position of having something available whatever outcome arrives. Did you show this kind of sympathy when the club didn't renew Mark Little's contract?

Dont understand the Mark Little comparison.

[...]

To reply to the OP, we saved him from Swindon, gave him almost automatic first team footy AND paid him £8K a week.

We should be ashamed of ourselves ..................

 

 

tfj

[BCFC_Dan]

2 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What the club have done has the opposite effect.  Effectively, LJ told everyone we're willing to sell, SL capped the maximum price we'll get and JMc fuelled speculation that the player is unhappy and refusing to play.  None of those things make the slightest bit of sense.

If Johnson says we're not going to sell, then sells him anyway, to a club in the same division, then many supporters will be pretty annoyed. They probably still will be but their expectations will have been set and the club won't have lied to them.

Not sure exactly what SL has said publicly on the subject but I doubt it carries much weight in any negotiation. Flint is worth what he's worth and I doubt it's anywhere near any figure that SL has come out with.

I'm not sure what else McAllister could have done other than "no comment" or making up an injury, either of which would probably have fuelled the same speculation. Clearly they judged Flint unfit to play, or the player ruled himself out. Either way they have to explain why a first team player who didn't start on Saturday wasn't in the squad.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Not sure exactly what SL has said publicly on the subject but I doubt it carries much weight in any negotiation. Flint is worth what he's worth and I doubt it's anywhere near any figure that SL has come out with.

You have to be kidding? The owner of the club who holds the purse strings comes out and says he'll listen to offers of £5m or over for Flint and you don't think that carries much weight in negotiations?

It actually suggests to me that the club are now quite desperate to sell Flint. Pretty unprecedented for a club owner/chairman to come out and name a price for one of their players. Baffling but whatever has happened it's surely very clear they want him gone now?

Anyway, bring on Sunday as presumably this will be all done and dusted by then.

[Nibor]

2 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

If Johnson says we're not going to sell, then sells him anyway, to a club in the same division, then many supporters will be pretty annoyed. They probably still will be but their expectations will have been set and the club won't have lied to them.

Not sure exactly what SL has said publicly on the subject but I doubt it carries much weight in any negotiation. Flint is worth what he's worth and I doubt it's anywhere near any figure that SL has come out with.

I'm not sure what else McAllister could have done other than "no comment" or making up an injury, either of which would probably have fuelled the same speculation. Clearly they judged Flint unfit to play, or the player ruled himself out. Either way they have to explain why a first team player who didn't start on Saturday wasn't in the squad.

LJ doesn't have to say we're not going to sell, he just has to say something neutral and not for example talk about the player having his head turned.  We all know that the club will consider offers for any player that are worth it, nobody would have been upset with selling Flint for a vast sum.  "He's an important player, we have no desire or need to sell him".  That's it!

SL said he wouldn't talk about a price and then said £5m a few seconds later live on radio.  Nobody will offer more than that now and the club won't be in a position to get more because it's already given away it's negotiating position.  Giving away your negotiating position is nuts.  The only way this makes sense is if you're naming a price vastly higher than anyone will pay because you want to keep the player, but good luck squaring that away with what LJ and JMc said... 

JMc could simply have said Flint wasn't selected.  Half a dozen other first teamers weren't selected, it was a league cup game.  Or he could have been not quite ready.  

This is all really simple stuff that should be absolutely obvious to the people at the club.  

[...]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

You have to be kidding? The owner of the club who holds the purse strings comes out and says he'll listen to offers of £5m or over for Flint and you don't think that carries much weight in negotiations?

It actually suggests to me that the club are now quite desperate to sell Flint. Pretty unprecedented for a club owner/chairman to come out and name a price for one of their players. Baffling but whatever has happened it's surely very clear they want him gone now?

Anyway, bring on Sunday as presumably this will be all done and dusted by then.

Or could it be ................

 

They thought Flint was leaving for sure - and bought Baker as a like-for-like replacement.

Now they are stuck with £13,000,000+ worth of centre halves??

As this is BCFC we won't know until the records are released in 200 years time.

 

tfj

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What the club have done has the opposite effect.  Effectively, LJ told everyone we're willing to sell, SL capped the maximum price we'll get and JMc fuelled speculation that the player is unhappy and refusing to play.  None of those things make the slightest bit of sense.

One out those three was wrong.

[Robbored]

Bottom line - every player is an asset and has a certain value and if the interested party pays that value or the selling club comprised then he goes..

With the Flint saga we have the normal posturing from both clubs and they wil (probably) reach a deal.

[Kid in the Riot]

8 minutes ago, Nibor said:

SL said he wouldn't talk about a price and then said £5m a few seconds later live on radio.  Nobody will offer more than that now and the club won't be in a position to get more because it's already given away it's negotiating position.  Giving away your negotiating position is nuts.  The only way this makes sense is if you're naming a price vastly higher than anyone will pay because you want to keep the player, but good luck squaring that away with what LJ and JMc said... 

Quite. It's like SL is playing a game of poker and has began by telling the rest of the players what his first two cards are!

I suspect he said it because:

a) He wants to sell Flint for whatever reason;

b) Birmingham are nowhere near our valuation of the player; and

c) No interest has been received from other clubs and so he is trying to drum up interest.

[BCFC_Dan]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You have to be kidding? The owner of the club who holds the purse strings comes out and says he'll listen to offers of £5m or over for Flint and you don't think that carries much weight in negotiations?

It actually suggests to me that the club are now quite desperate to sell Flint. Pretty unprecedented for a club owner/chairman to come out and name a price for one of their players. Baffling but whatever has happened it's surely very clear they want him gone now?

Anyway, bring on Sunday as presumably this will be all done and dusted by then.

"I'll listen to offers over £5m"

"Ok we'll give you £5,000,000.01"

"No."

"But you said..."

"Yeah and now I said no. Bye."

It doesn't have to be like that of course. He could be saying anything to the chairmen of other clubs in private.

In any case I think £5m is overvaluing the player somewhat.

[BRISTOL86]

14 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You have to be kidding? The owner of the club who holds the purse strings comes out and says he'll listen to offers of £5m or over for Flint and you don't think that carries much weight in negotiations?

It actually suggests to me that the club are now quite desperate to sell Flint. Pretty unprecedented for a club owner/chairman to come out and name a price for one of their players. Baffling but whatever has happened it's surely very clear they want him gone now?

Anyway, bring on Sunday as presumably this will be all done and dusted by then.

Didn't SL say that Kodjia would need an offer of at least £10m a couple of weeks before we sold him for a deal worth up to 50% as much again? 

[Nibor]

2 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

"I'll listen to offers over £5m"

"Ok we'll give you £5,000,000.01"

"No."

"But you said..."

"Yeah and now I said no. Bye."

It doesn't have to be like that of course. He could be saying anything to the chairmen of other clubs in private.

In any case I think £5m is overvaluing the player somewhat.

How do you think the player (who is under a long, expensive contract) might react when the club name a price but do not accept an offer of that amount? 

What would a negative reaction from the player do to their value to the club?

What possible benefit does the club get from making this statement over not making it?

£5m is under value in this market IMO - but it doesn't matter because the aim is the same, get the best price you can.  You don't do that by undermining your position.

[Dave]

Well it seems at the moment Bristol City value him more than Birmingham City do.

[BCFC_Dan]

17 minutes ago, Nibor said:

How do you think the player (who is under a long, expensive contract) might react when the club name a price but do not accept an offer of that amount? 

What would a negative reaction from the player do to their value to the club?

What possible benefit does the club get from making this statement over not making it?

£5m is under value in this market IMO - but it doesn't matter because the aim is the same, get the best price you can.  You don't do that by undermining your position.

I suppose it comes down to what the player is actually worth. I don't think he's worth £5m even in this over-inflated market, so it's not really an issue if that's the case.

However I do agree with you that there is no positive from the club making the statement(s), only debatable negatives, so they'd have been better off not mentioning any figures. I do think it's important to set expectations amongst the club's supporters so a statement that he's not for sale at any price would also be foolish, but there are definitely middle ways between the two.

[Simon79]

Did SL not say something along the lines of 5 million & we will start talking. This to me suggests add ons on top of that, promotion, appearances etc. I'm also fairly sure that JMc said something along the lines of " after a chat with the gaffer, Flint is no longer in the team tonight ", not that he refused to play. I think both sides of the coin could of said less, but that is today's society I'm afraid. I also think this started when Flints agent apparently said he would be interested to see what he is worth elsewhere. COYR

[...]

5 hours ago, RedRoss said:

Your consistently wrong

Your consistently negative

And also pretty arrogant

I'm not going to back up any of the statements above its self evident.

Very rarely do you see a relatively new poster grasp the concept of OTIB so swiftly and correctly.

 

tfj

[Spoons]

It's not hard to tell that Londoner the self proclaimed ' academic ' is so far detached from what actually goes on at Ashton gate he's starting to believe his own tripe.

Or is he secretly enjoying his pantomine villan role a bit to much and likes to watch the reaction unfold as he sits in the box room of mummy and daddy's house? 

[Alessandro]

12 hours ago, Nibor said:

We don't know the actions of the player or his agent because they're private, and the club do not have to react publicly to them.  I'm judging one side of the story, yes, the one the club have put into the public domain.

They should have said "Aden Flint is an important player for us who has recently signed a contract" and left it at that.  They haven't set out anything clearly, they've muddied the waters by disclosing some small part of what's happening in private.  None of the outcomes from doing this are likely to benefit the club or the player compared to the situation if they'd remained quiet.

What you're doing is speculating which is precisely what the club should have avoided fuelling.

Well you are also speculating, because I'm presuming you've never negotiated a transfer in football? 

I suspect it's unlike any other trade deal out there, so you can rip up your 'sales textbook'. 

It's too early to say if City should have said this, or shouldn't have said that.

One thing that annoys most fans more than most things is a lack of communication from the club, well they can't argue that on this one. There has been a huge amount of speculation and they are right to comment, IMO.

The club tends to remain pretty much silent on incoming transfers, we only hear when the club is reacting to intense speculation on one of our players.

SL came out over Kodjia and we got a great deal for him. If the same happens for Flint, and we get a deal in excess of £5m for a wantaway player, I personally think that is great business for the club and everything you've argued about going public, goes somewhat out the window. 

Time will tell.

 

[...]

13 hours ago, Spoons said:

It's not hard to tell that Londoner the self proclaimed ' academic ' is so far detached from what actually goes on at Ashton gate he's starting to believe his own tripe.

Or is he secretly enjoying his pantomine villan role a bit to much and likes to watch the reaction unfold as he sits in the box room of mummy and daddy's house? 

Not his No.1 fan - are you?

tfj

[stokes7]

I'm not really a fan of Johnson but ffs if he hadn't of said anything about why flint didn't play everyone one would just be assuming things, seriously give it a break guys. I like flinty but I think his head has been turned the club had an opportunity that was too good to turn down in buying baker and now we have the power if a club bids correct we sell if not we don't.

[Lanterne Rouge]

On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 19:15, Spoons said:

It's not hard to tell that Londoner the self proclaimed ' academic ' is so far detached from what actually goes on at Ashton gate he's starting to believe his own tripe.

Or is he secretly enjoying his pantomine villan role a bit to much and likes to watch the reaction unfold as he sits in the box room of mummy and daddy's house? 

In his pants eating cold spaghetti hoops from the tin?