Make no mistake

[frenchred]

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

[pigeon]

I only got to the end of the first sentence before bursting out laughing...

 

Got to love OTIB!

[frenchred]

Care to say why?

[pigeon]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

Care to say why?

Simple, were we set to get promoted after the Barnsley game?

 

Your basing a whole season from one game so surely if you take the Barnsley game, we were set to win the league after we demolished them?

[Guest Benjam!n Ultra]

It's up there with the worst of an LJs sides performance and after his three windows and now almost £20m spent. 

Not exactly inspiring is it? Those who believe we will finish anywhere outside the bottom 8 are living in a dream world. I missed the Barnsley game but the last two I've watched and I see absolutely no difference to last season's debacle. 

[frenchred]

2 minutes ago, pigeon said:

Simple, were we set to get promoted after the Barnsley game?

 

Your basing a whole season from one game so surely if you take the Barnsley game, we were set to win the league after we demolished them?

I think you should go to bed!

[Spud55]

9 minutes ago, frenchred said:

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

Surely a cornerstone of a nailed on relegation performance is that you get 0 points?

[Rob k]

We battered Barnsley, we were the better side sat and lost and got battered tonight and drew!! It's a very very competitive division, we will finish around 10-14th I'd say. 

[KeepUpLino]

1 minute ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

It's up there with the worst of an LJs sides performance and after his three windows and now almost £20m spent. 

Not exactly inspiring is it? Those who believe we will finish anywhere outside the bottom 8 are living in a dream world. I missed the Barnsley game but the last two I've watched and I see absolutely no difference to last season's debacle. 

Can't say I totally agree with all of the above, I thought the first half against Brum was one of the most enjoyable halfs I have witnessed in years, the second however was poor, we had no plan B...

 what happened tonight though? Who ******* knows?!?

[hoxton casual]

We were truly awful tonight. Brentford are a small club who have a far better transfer strategy and can spot talent and play great football. If we are judging city on performances tonight we would be relegated. There is a very large caveat and that is if Brentford ate ate one of the top sides but we don't know it because it is early days. If if it is true how do they get better players than us on their budgets. Marley Watkins who was reuted to be a city target ran rings round us

..

[hoxton casual]

Johnson did make the correct substitutions but he did not have a lot to play with. The squad is too young and inexperienced. As soon as we were rattled no one wanted the ball.

[ashton_fan]

We didn't play well but still got something, if that carries on we'll be nearer the top than the bottom. We had some games like this the season we got to the play-off final (remember Sheff W away early that season?)

[hoxton casual]

Pack was found out tonight by the pace of the game. He could not keep up. They had players who could pass as well as him as well as get about the pitch at pace.

[The_Don]

13 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I think you should go to bed!

Funnily enough I had that thought when I read your original post 

[Kodjias Wrist]

After being dominated in a game will worry any fan base. Particularly if they have seen it many times over two previous seasons.

These were two away games against good sides and it is still early days. I know people are worried that we can't hold a lead and get dominated but thats going to happen even top of the league get dominated in games by other opposition. Every team will throw away a lead this season and lose. 

[hoxton casual]

1 minute ago, ashton_fan said:

We didn't play well but still got something, if that carries on we'll be nearer the top than the bottom. We had some games like this the season we got to the play-off final (remember Sheff W away early that season?)

Shed Wed last season was a great performance until the wheels came off after we missed that goal. We were awful from beginning to end tonight and Frankie kept us in it.

[allyolly]

19 minutes ago, frenchred said:

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

No we didn't deserve anything out of the game tonight. But we did on Saturday so these things even out. 

As for positives am quite happy to list some:

Frankie Fielding

Another goal for bobby 

A second league goal for Bownhill

A league debut for Hinds 

A point where we seldom pick up any. 

Ok I had to think.... but to not see any positives other than EP is a blinkered view in my opinion. 

[hoxton casual]

2 minutes ago, allyolly said:

No we didn't deserve anything out of the game tonight. But we did on Saturday so these things even out. 

As for positives am quite happy to list some:

Frankie Fielding

Another goal for bobby 

A second league goal for Bownhill

A league debut for Hinds 

A point where we seldom pick up any. 

Ok I had to think.... but to not see any positives other than EP is a blinkered view in my opinion. 

You nailed all the positives except Owdwda made a real impact as well and it is good to be positive but the list of negatives is a long one. Johnson and Ashton need to get help with new striker cover and CM.

[hoxton casual]

Frankie and Bobby outstanding (apart from Frankies kicking) but as a team terrible. they outclassed us all over the pitch and obviously have better transfer strategy.

[hoxton casual]

1 minute ago, tinman85 said:

Agreed. In fairness Baker, Wright and Joe were decent. We just looked so lightweight

Back 5 were decent. Midfield was atrocious.

[Trueredsupporter]

26 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

We didn't play well but still got something, if that carries on we'll be nearer the top than the bottom.

if playing poorly goes on you go backwards. a certainty in football.

[xerox6060]

Agree totally about no plan B, the game was crying out for LJ to bolster midfield and it just seemed as if he was waiting until they scored, we suffered from no options up front but I have no real criticism of the players who I thought worked heroically with frankie outstanding, against a team who are potential top 6 in my opinion. 

Ive found lots of positives from attending the first four games but LJ again needs to learn from tonight before the next away trips to Reading and Wolves because from a tactics point of the view this was lucky but poor. 

[Jcolebristol]

Just got back  surprised to see threads titled this. Bit of a doom & gloom view!

Been to all games this season so far.

Barnsley - played great against a team that didn't turn up.

Bham - outplayed them but just showed a bit of inexperience to not adapt to bham' tactical change. Everyone at half time said do More of the same which is what they tried. Any other day would've been a win.

Brentford - they are a great side and we helped them out by being generally poor. Bit like bransley to us on day 1.

overall, great football but still room for improvement. At least we know our best 11. At least we're playing a particular way that every is in sync with. At least we have a lot of players with lots of potential. 

Win against milwall puts us on 7 points out of 12. If that happens, well happy. Would've taken that any day (and would have predicted Brentford as the loss).

[054123]

1 hour ago, pigeon said:

Simple, were we set to get promoted after the Barnsley game?

 

Your basing a whole season from one game so surely if you take the Barnsley game, we were set to win the league after we demolished them?

I would base our progress on the last 2 seasons.

What are your thoughts on those?

[leadman]

frenchies entitled to his opinion, to be fair to him I think he's nearer the mark than most, we need another 3 players by next week and we should be fine, brentford sounded like last seasons debarcle but we got a point, so maybe luck might shine on us this season, because it f****** didn't last, who knows.

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, frenchred said:

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

Agree with not finishing higher than last season..Johnson will be under greater pressure with more money spent,going backwards & another window about to close.

[cswhitlock]

10 hours ago, hoxton casual said:

You nailed all the positives except Owdwda made a real impact as well and it is good to be positive but the list of negatives is a long one. Johnson and Ashton need to get help with new striker cover and CM.

i am still baffled at the fact we have 2 strikers out on long injuries yet we send a striker on loan for 2 months ? the swedish lad that has just come in would surely have helped settle engvall and vice versa bewildered at the decision.

[Bar BS3]

If we can pick up a point from every off day, especially against the better teams in this division, like Brentford, then that will do me. 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, frenchred said:

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

The performance was disjointed.

The front two and the back four were isolated suggesting that it was in midfield that we came up short.

 I suspect that LJ wanted a more compact shape after our entertaining and open play at Brum yielded the grand sum of zero points for our efforts.

This lead to our defense being too deep and inviting those busy B's to attack.

 I thought our  defence were good last night .

We will play better and lose so very  happy with a morale boosting point .

[Natchfever]

11 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Surely a cornerstone of a nailed on relegation performance is that you get 0 points?

Correct although plenty have been relegated after gaining more than one point per game over the 46.

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Surely a cornerstone of a nailed on relegation performance is that you get 0 points?

Not necessarily. It is obviously possible to get three points and play poorly, but football being an honest game it is quite easy to look at the detail of a match and come to a logical conclusion = . Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

[richwwtk]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

But why extrapolate from the worst performance of the season so far? Why not a balanced view from all of the performances which would suggest mid-table so far rather than relegation.

[Spud55]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Not necessarily. It is obviously possible to get three points and play poorly, but football being an honest game it is quite easy to look at the detail of a match and come to a logical conclusion = . Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

Yes I agree and I was being somewhat obtuse, I would argue that teams that play badly but pick up points don't tend to be the ones that are in too much trouble, all teams have an off day and are poor from time to time (I don't think Chelsea are going to be relegated even though they got mullered by Burnley for most of the game) sometimes you come up against a side that is just on fire and there is not much you can do about it.  Last night was a combination of both, clearly we didn't play well, but equally Brentford played bloody well, how much of our poor performance was down to the opposition is up for debate, I would say it was a large slice of both, but if you can come up against a team that puts in a good performance while we are dog**** and come away with a point, that is not an bad outcome, and is usually the sign of a half decent side.

Of course if we play badly every game we will go down, equally if we play well every game we will go up, a bad performance in a game is no more an indicator of our future relegation than a good performance is an indicator of our pending rise to the Prem.

Had Brentford not turned up and been poor and our performance had been the same, then genuine concerns would need to be raised, however they did turn up and we have mugged them for a point while playing as badly as we have for some time, then I can deal with that.  If we play to the same level against Millwall that is the time to be seriously concerned. 

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Spud55 said:

Yes I agree and I was being somewhat obtuse, I would argue that teams that play badly but pick up points don't tend to be the ones that are in too much trouble, all teams have an off day and are poor from time to time (I don't think Chelsea are going to be relegated even though they got mullered by Burnley for most of the game) sometimes you come up against a side that is just on fire and there is not much you can do about it.  Last night was a combination of both, clearly we didn't play well, but equally Brentford played bloody well, how much of our poor performance was down to the opposition is up for debate, I would say it was a large slice of both, but if you can come up against a team that puts in a good performance while we are dog**** and come away with a point, that is not an bad outcome, and is usually the sign of a half decent side.

Of course if we play badly every game we will go down, equally if we play well every game we will go up, a bad performance in a game is no more an indicator of our future relegation than a good performance is an indicator of our pending rise to the Prem.

Had Brentford not turned up and been poor and our performance had been the same, then genuine concerns would need to be raised, however they did turn up and we have mugged them for a point while playing as badly as we have for some time, then I can deal with that.  If we play to the same level against Millwall that is the time to be seriously concerned. 

The clear sign of a half decent team would be if the opponent does have 70% + possession, prevent the twenty plus shots. Good teams playing badly limit the strikes on goal. Teams that choose to  concede possession heavily still limit strikes on goal e.g Pulis and Stoke/WBA.

There is an indicator of the future above if it continues. Note use of if.  

 

[1960maaan]

I was going to post this before , but with all the knee jerk reaction and reply I waited. Also , as I couldn't get to the last couple of games I would be interested to hear opinions .

Barnsley, very good first half. 2nd half was always going to be different with one team on damage limitation and the other on cruise control.
Plymouth , too many changes to count (both sides) but good passing football anyway.
Now here is the question, and obviously more analysis is done after poorer performances . The two away games have been disappointing and , although I can't speak first hand so it's difficult, going by commentary and reports there are similarities.
Brum switched to a 3 in midfield and won as we couldn't cope with the changes. Brentford played a 5 , so 3 in CM and we struggled . By the time the change was made , Brentford had their tails and confidence up and dominated long periods. 
Is this about right?

I do wonder if LJ is proactive enough, I wondered Vs Brum if matching the 3 in CM would have negated their change. Same last night, maybe  if the change was made earlier before they got a head of steam up we could have kept a little control of the game.  
I worry that any scout watching the last two games will spot that one simple thing, play a 3 and we struggle. Teams watch for weaknesses and play and plan on them, I worry we have no plan B to switch to. Home games may be a little different, we have more possession and teams sit and let us play more. There could still be difficulties if the use the extra man and sit in, can we get around it. Brentford were a good team , last year. Last night they were on a bad run, lacking confidence and 3 changes to the back 4. On paper a good time to play them. We had an off day , but I wonder if it goes deeper. Only time and games will tell, but with last years amazing run still fresh in the memory I don't think we can happily wipe the worries away. 
2 home wins and things will look a lot better and we can go to Reading in good heart. The season's still young and we are settling in , but with 2 seasons of struggle behind us you can't help but worry a little.

[Spud55]

31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The clear sign of a half decent team would be if the opponent does have 70% + possession, prevent the twenty plus shots. Good teams playing badly limit the strikes on goal. Teams that choose to  concede possession heavily still limit strikes on goal e.g Pulis and Stoke/WBA.

There is an indicator of the future above if it continues. Note use of if.  

 

Agree, we are poor at stopping the shot / cross and that does need to improve because as you say the good teams when they play badly do exactly that.  

As I said if we are that dreadful against Millwall then the Knives will rightfully be out and being sharpened, but one game on it's own is not an indicator of well anything.

[pigeon]

[Robbored]

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

[One Team]

16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

Imagine slagging off a Johnson manager who latterly proves to be successful. Who would do that?! 

;-) ;-) 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, One Team said:

Imagine slagging off a Johnson manager who latterly proves to be successful. Who would do that?! 

;-) ;-) 

Successful?.............

 

 

 

[cityexile]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

I think following City you just have to enjoy the moment when things go well. There will be enough downs on the journey for sure.

We were pretty dire at Brentford. Tonight however, is a good night.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, cityexile said:

I think following City you just have to enjoy the moment when things go well. There will be enough downs on the journey for sure.

We were pretty dire at Brentford. Tonight however, is a good night.

Not just tonight tho was it? The thrashing of Derby was pretty good.

[Kid in the Riot]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

You are beyond parody! 

[cityexile]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not just tonight tho was it? The thrashing of Derby was pretty good.

Good times, good times. 

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You are beyond parody! 

Kid..........

Almost everybody knows my views on GJs reign and I know I'm in the minority but some posters use my views as a stick to beat me. You included......

i do wish that those critics of one of my opinions would come up with something more original and recent.........

[Wanderingred]

Just made a little edit:

That was a performance with promotion written all over it. A team and management full of ideas all making things happen. A team set out by our management team who comfortably defended Stokes wide players), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) win the ball and dictate the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked assured and composed, added to that a clinical attack and good service from the sidelines. Would have probably settled for a draw before the game but my god Stoke must be cursing after being totally outplayed for 90 minutes. An exciting season ahead, let's hope it ends with the success of a top half finish, anyone lookling any lower I feel will be very pleasantly surprised.

What a difference a month makes!

[steviestevieneville]

What is it with some of our fans . We're either ******* terrible or brilliant. We're playing really well at the moment so let's enjoy without the massive highs and lows. Most of us have watched enough football down the years to know a season is long and full of peaks and troughs . Calm yer skin down . 

[frenchred]

Great performance that followed on from Saturday, I was there supporting them tonight and thought everyone, players fans and management team did well.