Make no mistake

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, frenchred said:

That was a performance with relegation written all over it. A team and management bereft of ideas waiting for someone else or something to happen. A team set out by our management team who could not defend brentford,s wide players ( be ok at the gate as we narrowed the pitch!), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) not win the ball or keep up with the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked like rabbits in headlights, added to that a powderpuff attack and absolutely nothing from the sidelines, either players to change the game or a coach who could. Would have probably settled for a point before the game but my god Brentford must be cursing, once our goal went in they battered us. Pisano looked ok in first half apart from hat struggling for any positives at all. A long hard season ahead, let's hope it ends with the (relative) success as last year, anyone lookling any higher I feel will be very disappointed.

The performance was disjointed.

The front two and the back four were isolated suggesting that it was in midfield that we came up short.

 I suspect that LJ wanted a more compact shape after our entertaining and open play at Brum yielded the grand sum of zero points for our efforts.

This lead to our defense being too deep and inviting those busy B's to attack.

 I thought our  defence were good last night .

We will play better and lose so very  happy with a morale boosting point .

[Natchfever]

11 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Surely a cornerstone of a nailed on relegation performance is that you get 0 points?

Correct although plenty have been relegated after gaining more than one point per game over the 46.

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Surely a cornerstone of a nailed on relegation performance is that you get 0 points?

Not necessarily. It is obviously possible to get three points and play poorly, but football being an honest game it is quite easy to look at the detail of a match and come to a logical conclusion = . Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

[richwwtk]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

But why extrapolate from the worst performance of the season so far? Why not a balanced view from all of the performances which would suggest mid-table so far rather than relegation.

[Spud55]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Not necessarily. It is obviously possible to get three points and play poorly, but football being an honest game it is quite easy to look at the detail of a match and come to a logical conclusion = . Play like this for an extended period of time  the only outcome can be the team will be relegated.

Yes I agree and I was being somewhat obtuse, I would argue that teams that play badly but pick up points don't tend to be the ones that are in too much trouble, all teams have an off day and are poor from time to time (I don't think Chelsea are going to be relegated even though they got mullered by Burnley for most of the game) sometimes you come up against a side that is just on fire and there is not much you can do about it.  Last night was a combination of both, clearly we didn't play well, but equally Brentford played bloody well, how much of our poor performance was down to the opposition is up for debate, I would say it was a large slice of both, but if you can come up against a team that puts in a good performance while we are dog**** and come away with a point, that is not an bad outcome, and is usually the sign of a half decent side.

Of course if we play badly every game we will go down, equally if we play well every game we will go up, a bad performance in a game is no more an indicator of our future relegation than a good performance is an indicator of our pending rise to the Prem.

Had Brentford not turned up and been poor and our performance had been the same, then genuine concerns would need to be raised, however they did turn up and we have mugged them for a point while playing as badly as we have for some time, then I can deal with that.  If we play to the same level against Millwall that is the time to be seriously concerned. 

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Spud55 said:

Yes I agree and I was being somewhat obtuse, I would argue that teams that play badly but pick up points don't tend to be the ones that are in too much trouble, all teams have an off day and are poor from time to time (I don't think Chelsea are going to be relegated even though they got mullered by Burnley for most of the game) sometimes you come up against a side that is just on fire and there is not much you can do about it.  Last night was a combination of both, clearly we didn't play well, but equally Brentford played bloody well, how much of our poor performance was down to the opposition is up for debate, I would say it was a large slice of both, but if you can come up against a team that puts in a good performance while we are dog**** and come away with a point, that is not an bad outcome, and is usually the sign of a half decent side.

Of course if we play badly every game we will go down, equally if we play well every game we will go up, a bad performance in a game is no more an indicator of our future relegation than a good performance is an indicator of our pending rise to the Prem.

Had Brentford not turned up and been poor and our performance had been the same, then genuine concerns would need to be raised, however they did turn up and we have mugged them for a point while playing as badly as we have for some time, then I can deal with that.  If we play to the same level against Millwall that is the time to be seriously concerned. 

The clear sign of a half decent team would be if the opponent does have 70% + possession, prevent the twenty plus shots. Good teams playing badly limit the strikes on goal. Teams that choose to  concede possession heavily still limit strikes on goal e.g Pulis and Stoke/WBA.

There is an indicator of the future above if it continues. Note use of if.  

 

[1960maaan]

I was going to post this before , but with all the knee jerk reaction and reply I waited. Also , as I couldn't get to the last couple of games I would be interested to hear opinions .

Barnsley, very good first half. 2nd half was always going to be different with one team on damage limitation and the other on cruise control.
Plymouth , too many changes to count (both sides) but good passing football anyway.
Now here is the question, and obviously more analysis is done after poorer performances . The two away games have been disappointing and , although I can't speak first hand so it's difficult, going by commentary and reports there are similarities.
Brum switched to a 3 in midfield and won as we couldn't cope with the changes. Brentford played a 5 , so 3 in CM and we struggled . By the time the change was made , Brentford had their tails and confidence up and dominated long periods. 
Is this about right?

I do wonder if LJ is proactive enough, I wondered Vs Brum if matching the 3 in CM would have negated their change. Same last night, maybe  if the change was made earlier before they got a head of steam up we could have kept a little control of the game.  
I worry that any scout watching the last two games will spot that one simple thing, play a 3 and we struggle. Teams watch for weaknesses and play and plan on them, I worry we have no plan B to switch to. Home games may be a little different, we have more possession and teams sit and let us play more. There could still be difficulties if the use the extra man and sit in, can we get around it. Brentford were a good team , last year. Last night they were on a bad run, lacking confidence and 3 changes to the back 4. On paper a good time to play them. We had an off day , but I wonder if it goes deeper. Only time and games will tell, but with last years amazing run still fresh in the memory I don't think we can happily wipe the worries away. 
2 home wins and things will look a lot better and we can go to Reading in good heart. The season's still young and we are settling in , but with 2 seasons of struggle behind us you can't help but worry a little.

[Spud55]

31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The clear sign of a half decent team would be if the opponent does have 70% + possession, prevent the twenty plus shots. Good teams playing badly limit the strikes on goal. Teams that choose to  concede possession heavily still limit strikes on goal e.g Pulis and Stoke/WBA.

There is an indicator of the future above if it continues. Note use of if.  

 

Agree, we are poor at stopping the shot / cross and that does need to improve because as you say the good teams when they play badly do exactly that.  

As I said if we are that dreadful against Millwall then the Knives will rightfully be out and being sharpened, but one game on it's own is not an indicator of well anything.

[pigeon]

[Robbored]

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

[One Team]

16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

Imagine slagging off a Johnson manager who latterly proves to be successful. Who would do that?! 

;-) ;-) 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, One Team said:

Imagine slagging off a Johnson manager who latterly proves to be successful. Who would do that?! 

;-) ;-) 

Successful?.............

 

 

 

[cityexile]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

I think following City you just have to enjoy the moment when things go well. There will be enough downs on the journey for sure.

We were pretty dire at Brentford. Tonight however, is a good night.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, cityexile said:

I think following City you just have to enjoy the moment when things go well. There will be enough downs on the journey for sure.

We were pretty dire at Brentford. Tonight however, is a good night.

Not just tonight tho was it? The thrashing of Derby was pretty good.

[Kid in the Riot]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That's the problem,  Frenchred when you slag off the City  so early in the season.............

Id be embarrassed  if I'd written that.

You are beyond parody! 

[cityexile]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not just tonight tho was it? The thrashing of Derby was pretty good.

Good times, good times. 

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You are beyond parody! 

Kid..........

Almost everybody knows my views on GJs reign and I know I'm in the minority but some posters use my views as a stick to beat me. You included......

i do wish that those critics of one of my opinions would come up with something more original and recent.........

[Wanderingred]

Just made a little edit:

That was a performance with promotion written all over it. A team and management full of ideas all making things happen. A team set out by our management team who comfortably defended Stokes wide players), A team set out with a midfield that could (a) win the ball and dictate the pace of the game in the centre and two wide(ish) players who looked assured and composed, added to that a clinical attack and good service from the sidelines. Would have probably settled for a draw before the game but my god Stoke must be cursing after being totally outplayed for 90 minutes. An exciting season ahead, let's hope it ends with the success of a top half finish, anyone lookling any lower I feel will be very pleasantly surprised.

What a difference a month makes!

[steviestevieneville]

What is it with some of our fans . We're either ******* terrible or brilliant. We're playing really well at the moment so let's enjoy without the massive highs and lows. Most of us have watched enough football down the years to know a season is long and full of peaks and troughs . Calm yer skin down . 

[frenchred]

Great performance that followed on from Saturday, I was there supporting them tonight and thought everyone, players fans and management team did well.