The official Bristol City FC v Aston Villa FC match day thread

[Luxo Jr.]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Its a pen.

Have a proper watch, maybe put some glasses on.

 

So condescending.

[Tom Fleuriot]

11 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Just to avoid repeating myself...

The offence is deliberate handball - the third JT incident clearly isn't this.

However, referees have made their own interpretation of it to include recklessness, which seems to be the common theme now. This usually amounts to arm being stretched out to either block the ball (which would be deliberate - as above), or where it is daft to do so and where he has sufficient time to react. Terry clearly had basically no time to react, and having your arm outstretched mid-tackle is not unreasonable, otherwise defenders would be all over the place with their arms by their sides.

Not to sound arrogant, but 99% of fans don't interpret the handball rule correctly. It wasn't a pen.

You have assumed people are interpreting the rule incorrectly. Looks like the disagreement is whether or not Terry had his arms in a natural position or was adopting a shape that anticipated potentially blocking the ball with his arm. That's not the same as saying that a ball to hand is handball, which nobody seems to be saying. So I think yes, you are conveying unwarranted arrogance in saying it is a misunderstanding of the laws. 

[Slippin cider]

We've been an afterthought all night on Sky ....scum bags

[Trueredsupporter]

5 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

one interpretation by Elleray.

 

Which is not part of the rule and not used by referees the world over which is why players do not tuck their arms in behind their bodies now because it was only the English doing that.  

[nebristolred]

1 minute ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

You have assumed people are interpreting the rule incorrectly. Looks like the disagreement is whether or not Terry had his arms in a natural position or was adopting a shape that anticipated potentially blocking the ball with his arm. That's not the same as saying that a ball to hand is handball, which nobody seems to be saying. So I think yes, you are conveying unwarranted arrogance in saying it is a misunderstanding of the laws. 

It absolutely is a misunderstanding of the laws. Ask any football fan and the vast majority won't know what the rule is. Heck, even Peter Schmeichel didn't know on MOTD very recently and got panned for it.

Mid-tackle, that is not an unnatural position, and you cannot expect defenders to have arms pinned to their sides constantly, but no one seems to be able to answer that point.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, Luxo Jr. said:

If you're running, your arms often end up at chest height. "Good job your not a ref tbh" is not much of a response to my point.

Think you got me mixed up with someone else,I said it's a pen if your arms are in a unnatural position like above your head,I never mentioned running until you brought it up 

[nebristolred]

1 minute ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Which is not part of the rule and not used by referees the world over which is why players do not tuck their arms in behind their bodies now because it was only the English doing that.  

No it's not part of the rule, but it's a common interpretation. 

Would you like to interpret the rule literally? Well in that case it has to be deliberate, which it wasn't. Which makes you wrong again I'm afraid.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Luxo Jr. said:

So condescending.

Condescending posts are given where appropriate.

As Tom Fleuriot says, there was some arrogance in that posters comments. 

A condescending post to someone whose posts had an air of arrogance hardly seems unfair to me.

[Tom Fleuriot]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Fair enough, apologies.

But back to the point, that arm is not in an unnatural position for mid-tackle whatsoever. You can argue all you like whether he's been doing it, it's legal. That arm IS where it would usually be. You cannot expect defenders to have their arms pinned to their sides for challenges.

Well, of course there is a mid point between arms pinned to sides and what Terry does. I'm saying he does it deliberately in order to stop the ball, and it is not a natural position from his running or jockeying. It is only whee out would usually be if you're John Terry and want to get away with handball. 

[Tom Fleuriot]

2 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

It absolutely is a misunderstanding of the laws. Ask any football fan and the vast majority won't know what the rule is. Heck, even Peter Schmeichel didn't know on MOTD very recently and got panned for it.

Mid-tackle, that is not an unnatural position, and you cannot expect defenders to have arms pinned to their sides constantly, but no one seems to be able to answer that point.

Which one was mid tackle? He was yards away. 

More relevantly - I haven't seen a misunderstanding of the laws from the points made in this thread by people saying handball, irrespective of Peter Schmeichel. 

[nebristolred]

1 minute ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

Well, of course there is a mid point between arms pinned to sides and what Terry does. I'm saying he does it deliberately in order to stop the ball, and it is not a natural position from his running or jockeying. It is only whee out would usually be if you're John Terry and want to get away with handball. 

Well I completely disagree but let's leave it at that. That arm is 100% not there deliberately. The ball could have gone in a million different directions, that is pure fluke that it hits him.

[Red Exile]

Solid performance. Surrendered midfield towards the end and the subs did nothing to address that. But overall an entertaining match in which we competed well for 80 minutes. Promising. 

[Up The City!]

They didn't fancy having a half hour chat with LJ pitch side then?

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Tom Fleuriot said:

Which one was mid tackle? He was yards away. 

Was about to say the same.

How is Terry mid tackle when the ball has travelled yards before it reached him?

[joe jordans teeth]

Why hasn't anybody started a Johnson hater/lover thread yet ,like clockwork normally 

[RedRock]

Frankie - awesome. Well done that man.

Back 4 superb. Pato and Reid excellent.

Famara looks lost. 

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why hasn't anybody started a Johnson hater/lover thread yet ,like clockwork normally 

Because nobody's quite sure whether it's a good result or not. 

[BCFC Rich]

1 minute ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why hasn't anybody started a Johnson hater/lover thread yet ,like clockwork normally 

Distracted by penalty argument? 

[Trueredsupporter]

1 minute ago, nebristolred said:

No it's not part of the rule, but it's a common interpretation. 

Would you like to interpret the rule literally? Well in that case it has to be deliberate, which it wasn't. Which makes you wrong again I'm afraid.

the rule is quite clear and does not mention unnnatural. which is right not wrong. its not a common interpretation at all. which is why players are being told by managers and coaches NOT to tuck their arms in. it was uncommon interpretation from an Engish ref which has turned into a fact when its not. 

[Ivorguy]

What a pointless thread this has turned into. The only rule that matters is that the ref makes the final decision.

I am far more concerned with the lack of quality in our multi million centre forward and our lack of a creative midfielder.  Also why did the coach wait till final 5 mins to bring two forward thinking players on

Still believe this is going to be a very long and very hard season.

Anyone still think the side will meet SL's aim of finishing top six?

[Slippin cider]

Sky just said they were going to interview LJ and then they ended  Bruce must have taken up all the time 

[Up The City!]

He had his arms up to attempt to block a incoming shot. No way at all was he mid tackle.

[Top Robin]

Cant quite believe how strong that Villa squad was not to mentioned those who were injured and due to come back! 

I mean to be able to bring Hogan on a sub!

Tbh they looked more assured than us in the final third and seemed like they may be more able to create something.

We really do need some creative quality in midfield and then I recon we will have decent side.

[Tom Fleuriot]

3 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Well I completely disagree but let's leave it at that. That arm is 100% not there deliberately. The ball could have gone in a million different directions, that is pure fluke that it hits him.

But that is your interpretation of his intent and circumstance. It is not a sign that you understand the law better than any of the people. I say it 100% is deliberately in a position to maximise prospect of disrupting the flight of the ball. You say Honest John just happens to have flappy arms. That's fine, but I believe you to be wrong.

[Up The City!]

Pato getting some excellent praise.

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Pato getting some excellent praise.

Not from @CyderInACan he would have taken him off before he scored.

[Chivs]

19 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Fair enough, apologies.

But back to the point, that arm is not in an unnatural position for mid-tackle whatsoever. You can argue all you like whether he's been doing it, it's legal. That arm IS where it would usually be. You cannot expect defenders to have their arms pinned to their sides for challenges.

You keep saying "mid-tackle".  Who was Terry tackling exactly?

[Super]

Tonight proved once again we are lacking a creative central midfielder. Smith and pack work hard but are so limited.

[Gert Mare]

We are either brilliant, horrendous, or steady like we were tonight. Middle of the table beckons from what I have witnessed this season. We are improving! UTC!

[RedRock]

Terry..... I've seen them given. 

Think he was clever, his arm could have moved back and away when hit, instead he held it in position. Whether that was voluntary/involuntary is questionable but that relates to body position. In my view, his weight was wrong if he was trying to keep his arm out the way.... so (having been a forward) I'd have given it.

Think that was his third arm block in the penalty area .... so an interesting part of Terry's game.