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the elephant in the room.


pillred

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Posted

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

Posted
5 minutes ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

I think he was out of position a fair few times tonight. Baker was gesturing for him to move over to the left of the goal for a free kick, he didn't make it in time.

Posted
2 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I think he was out of position a fair few times tonight. Baker was gesturing for him to move over to the left of the goal for a free kick, he didn't make it in time.

exactly, he didn't make it in time, people say he will need time to adjust, he is being asked to do his job, how different can it be, the French game is the same as ours as far as I know.

Posted
2 minutes ago, pillred said:

exactly, he didn't make it in time, people say he will need time to adjust, he is being asked to do his job, how different can it be, the French game is the same as ours as far as I know.

I guess JK took a while to work on his positioning, he was offside many a time. I'm sure FD will come good

Posted

Unfortunately @pillred I think you're right.  Admittedly he hasn't had any decent service, but lack of pace, and ball control is obvious. He might turn out to be like Matt Smith who was "awful" but then became good, but I'm not hopeful.  He looks like a player who has come from a non league team and City just decided to take a £50K punt. He may improve, and I hope he does, but £5m is a lot of money for City to pay. I don't believe he would be in the team if he hadn't cost so much money.  He'd be another "one for the future" player sent out on loan to a league one / two club.

Posted
6 minutes ago, GJS said:

Not giving him any settling in time then?

for 5.3 million I would expect him to be able to adapt a bit quicker than he has. but that is the problem quicker, that will be his undoing unfortunately.

Posted
12 minutes ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

Let's hope were wrong.looks so far out of his depth its unreal.....not bad in the air but that's it-5 million quid and someone somewhere is pissing ' emselves laughing..scouting must be seriously scrutinized.

Shocking.

Posted
1 minute ago, Robert the bruce said:

Let's hope were wrong.looks so far out of his depth its unreal.....not bad in the air but that's it-5 million quid and someone somewhere is pissing ' emselves laughing..scouting must be seriously scrutinized.

Shocking.

Robert,, you like me are probably hoping we are both wrong, but, two wrongs don't usually make a right do they!!

Posted

Write him off at your peril. The English game is more physical than the continental leagues. Millwall were very physical  and Villa had experience in their centre halves. Granted pace isn't great but I'm sure we haven't seen the best of the lad yet.

Posted
8 minutes ago, numbeast said:

Write him off at your peril. The English game is more physical than the continental leagues. Millwall were very physical  and Villa had experience in their centre halves. Granted pace isn't great but I'm sure we haven't seen the best of the lad yet.

as I said in my post really hope I am wrong, the signs are not good though, hope you are right.

Posted

I thought he did ok last night held the ball up well and brought others into the game, against an experienced villa back line...didn't think he should have been brought off

Posted

Agree with some of the concerns but thought he improved as the game went on. Was surprised when he went off, he was starting to do the things you expect from him. 

Posted

Felt he was better than what lots are saying on this thread. He does so much donkey work that goes unnoticed, their defence won't have enjoyed playing against him. Lots of nice layoffs and hold up play.

He's always going to be judged harshly and compared to Kodjia/Abraham which doesn't help.

Posted

Pace is not his strongest attribute and I'm not sure pace is something that can be improved. You either have it or don't. His ball control and first touch can be improved upon tho. But last night, for me, it was what he did off the ball. Bringing others in and disrupting the backline of a very strong Villa defence. It is still early days, but 5m is a lot of money for us to have spent I agree.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said:

As said last week he needs better service into him.

Cannot understand how that Brownhill keeps getting a game that. 

I thought he did OK last night to be fair. The foul and booking on the half way line when Villa were about to break was important. Not condoning that style of play but sometimes putting a foot in is required.

Posted
2 minutes ago, ColeCiderRed said:

I thought he did OK last night to be fair. The foul and booking on the half way line when Villa were about to break was important. Not condoning that style of play but sometimes putting a foot in is required.

Agreed about foul, but offers very little going forward.

Posted
21 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said:

Agreed about foul, but offers very little going forward.

Not sure I agree whole heartedly. Scored a very good goal at Brentford and his Brighton goal last season shows he has something. 

Posted

It's a good debate to have about FD. 

I said same thing to guy I was sitting with that on 'current showing' no way is this fella a £5m plus striker.  Compare him to TA or JK before, light years apart.  

Perhaps we were spoilt with these two.  He is certainly not a 'Bas Savage' but his playing style reminds me more of Wayne Allison . I am uncomfortable that the club have spent such a huge chunk on FD.

 

Can a 5m striker be a work in progress. Has he given any opposition a difficult game to date 

Posted

He isn't yet excelling, but he had a decent game last night and better than against Watford or Brentford. He will need a bit of time to adjust to the pace of the game, you can see him try flicks or take extra touches which might be fine in France but just won't work here. Also he's clearly a unit but needs to do some physical conditioning work which I'm sure the fitness team have covered. So in summary does he seem like £5.3m worth of player right now no, but ask me again in a couple of months and hopefully the answer will be different.

Posted
1 minute ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

He isn't yet excelling, but he had a decent game last night and better than against Watford or Brentford. He will need a bit of time to adjust to the pace of the game, you can see him try flicks or take extra touches which might be fine in France but just won't work here. Also he's clearly a unit but needs to do some physical conditioning work which I'm sure the fitness team have covered. So in summary does he seem like £5.3m worth of player right now no, but ask me again in a couple of months and hopefully the answer will be different.

Agree... battled and held the ball up well taking the pressure off us when needed last night, I thought was better second half and as a team we lost our way when he was subbed for the ineffective Woodrow. His lack of pace from a standing start is unexpected though.

I'd say the true "elephant in the room" is that although both Pack & Smith are tidy, with those two in CM we are never going to create much. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Between heaven and hell said:

As said last week he needs better service into him.

Cannot understand how that Brownhill keeps getting a game that. 

Wow just wow. :facepalm:

Posted
7 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Brownhill is our best player and will be playing in the premier league within 2 years - IMO

I agree, he's being played out of position also. Think he will permanently be moved to cm shortly once eliasson is up to speed.

I also think we will see the best of fammy once this happens and quite like what I have seen from him so far as he needs quality crosses to attack like his goal v Barnsley 

Posted
31 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

It's a good debate to have about FD. 

I said same thing to guy I was sitting with that on 'current showing' no way is this fella a £5m plus striker.  Compare him to TA or JK before, light years apart.  

Kodjia had only scored one more goal than Diedhiou has after 5 league games. If I remember correctly, he was making lots of basic errors to begin with - plenty of offsides and was pretty greedy on the ball.

Also worth noting that at Diedhiou's age, Kodjia was just about to have his breakthrough season at Angers whereas Diedhiou has far more experience at a better standard. 

Quote

Perhaps we were spoilt with these two.  He is certainly not a 'Bas Savage' but his playing style reminds me more of Wayne Allison . I am uncomfortable that the club have spent such a huge chunk on FD.

Agreed - he's that sort of player and totally different to JK or TA. I believe he has really helped Reid and I'm sure Bobby would attest to that.

It is a big price tag though so I can understand why he's being critiqued pretty harshly.

Quote

Can a 5m striker be a work in progress. Has he given any opposition a difficult game to date 

Yes he can, he's only 24 so has years to improve. He will definitely get physically stronger and adjust to the English game.

I feel last night he gave Terry, Samba and Chester plenty to think about. He was against an experienced and canny defence and held his own in my opinion.

Guest Euan BCFC
Posted

Not that he cost anything, but Woodrow looks pretty crap too. Our only good striker is Booby, who just wouldn't be able to cope up top on his own. So, unfortunately, unless we sign a new Forward in the next week, I think we're screwed

Posted

Twice in the first 20 minutes we broke. He peeled off the CB and was looking for a through ball. Both Reid and Brownhill never slipped him in. Might not have been the easiest ball but should have been played. I am prepared to give the guy a decent run but we must give him chances to judge him.

Guest Carey's Hooter
Posted

Ive read some gumpf in my time, i really have.

the pace of this league is different to the french league. 

 

Has anyone thought that maybe reid's form has come because he is playing alongside a striker that is pulling their defenders all over the place?

5million is a lot of money, but when we may have robbed cardiff of 3million and flint is likely to go for 5, its not all that bad.

 

Posted

Shock horror, Johnson and Co wasting money. Magnússon, Engvail, Moore (any one seen him?), O'Neil wages. 5m on fam looks ridiculous. I'm not sure as a club it's sustainable. That's the negative, fingers crossed he's just taking time to adapt. He doesn't look a bad player, just not there yet. Part of the problem is he does alot of the donkey work, runs the channels constantly which leaves us short in the middle.

 

Early days!

Guest Euan BCFC
Posted
1 minute ago, BCFC Grim said:

Shock horror, Johnson and Co wasting money. Magnússon, Engvall, Moore

I honestly don't see why we don't sell these. Mags could generate some decent money and is better than Bryan, Engvall is wanted by Ipswich and why we brought in Moore I have no clue

Posted

Think I'll give him more than 5 games before making an opinion. Big leap in standard and even bigger in terms of the pace of games in the Championship.           

On last nights showing though, thought he did well against a very experienced back line and caused problems, good movement, made himself available, didn't really threaten in front of goal but the service wasn't great. On a side note, when he went off and Woodrow came on we lost pretty much all impetus, thought Terry and Chester has Woodrow in their pockets. 

Posted
7 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

I certainly have my fears already. 

His best trait is what he brings to others like Bobby Reid and his work rate is great.  But £5m? Nah. 

Posted
6 hours ago, pillred said:

exactly, he didn't make it in time, people say he will need time to adjust, he is being asked to do his job, how different can it be, the French game is the same as ours as far as I know.

Nowhere near as fast and physical in France as it is here. He'll take time . He's also a very unselfish forward that creates a lot of space for others 

Posted
22 minutes ago, Euan BCFC said:

Not that he cost anything, but Woodrow looks pretty crap too. Our only good striker is Booby, who just wouldn't be able to cope up top on his own. So, unfortunately, unless we sign a new Forward in the next week, I think we're screwed

You said yourself you've not been to a game yet !

Posted
26 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Kodjia had only scored one more goal than Diedhiou has after 5 league games. If I remember correctly, he was making lots of basic errors to begin with - plenty of offsides and was pretty greedy on the ball.

Also worth noting that at Diedhiou's age, Kodjia was just about to have his breakthrough season at Angers whereas Diedhiou has far more experience at a better standard. 

Agreed - he's that sort of player and totally different to JK or TA. I believe he has really helped Reid and I'm sure Bobby would attest to that.

It is a big price tag though so I can understand why he's being critiqued pretty harshly.

Yes he can, he's only 24 so has years to improve. He will definitely get physically stronger and adjust to the English game.

I feel last night he gave Terry, Samba and Chester plenty to think about. He was against an experienced and canny defence and held his own in my opinion.

Thought he did ok last night and was strong and held the ball up or drew fouls out of 2 experienced defenders. Some nice touches  and lay offs too. I think too many are over analysing him and I think he will improve as time goes on to be a good striker for us

Posted
3 minutes ago, INCRED said:

Thought he did ok last night and was strong and held the ball up or drew fouls out of 2 experienced defenders. Some nice touches  and lay offs too. I think too many are over analysing him and I think he will improve as time goes on to be a good striker for us

Obviously the price tag is high and I can understand why people would expect more of an instant impact and a high goal return.

Perhaps it's the wrong way to see the price tag. You could argue that the fee was spent to improve Reid and Taylor's game by buying in an unselfish and hardworking player to create time and space for them.

 

Posted

The way we set up and the way the game was going he got zero chances or opportunities to threaten the goal so he was forced into dropping deep and running the channels. Which i thought he did reasonably okay with!

A selfless striker when some of the midfield are helping out will go a long way. He isn't a Kodjia or a Tammy but he will do well for us.

Posted

Out of interest for those who talk about Diedhiou in terms of £5m- if he had cost £500k would he be any better in people's opinion?

The money is largely irrelevant as SL covers this and 'we' haven't spent it. 

The real question, imo, is:  is Famara going to get us the goals we need to kick on? At this early stage- it doesn't look likely but is does look like he's going to cause all sorts of problems with defenders so we need goals from midfield for a change which , errr, doesn't seem likely.

Goals haven't really been our problem in recent seasons but conceding them has. It now looks like the defence is solid so I really hope the attack quickly finds the best pairings because the irony of getting the defence finally sorted just as the goals dry up will not be lost on here.

Posted

5m is the starting price these days for a striker. I wouldn't get too hung up on the fee. 

He is a very unselfish player who's adapting to his new environment, he's busy enough and drawing players out,  with bobby finding the spaces I think this could work out quite well. 

He needs some time playing finding his game in a new league.

Posted
7 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

Mkyhtarien ( I can't be bothered to get the correct spelling) cost something like 25 million for Man U and was left out of the squad for months , same as Lindelof for 30 mil and he hasn't been anywhere near the squad yet as it takes time to settle and adapt .  We haven't got the luxury of a big quality squad to be able to do that so we have to chuck them in and give them time.  

How can he be labelled as crap this early 

Guest Euan BCFC
Posted
23 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You said yourself you've not been to a game yet !

Yes, but I've seen highlights and heard from other people

Posted

I thought he played a good game, and he was absolutely shattered when he came off.  I saw several nice touches and lay offs, and countless times holding the ball.

As for his price tag, It's not our money so it doesn't really matter, and £5 million isn't a lot these days, is it?  I'm confident that come the end of the season he would've scored approx. 15 goals, had a fair few assists, and given several defenders a torrid game or two.

As a few others have said, you can't begin to compare him to JK or Tammy, because they are not £5million strikers, they are £15 and £20million strikers respectively.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

 

How can he be labelled as crap this early 

Because this is OTIB

Posted
6 minutes ago, screech said:

5m is the starting price these days for a striker. I wouldn't get too hung up on the fee. 

He is a very unselfish player who's adapting to his new environment, he's busy enough and drawing players out,  with bobby finding the spaces I think this could work out quite well. 

He needs some time playing finding his game in a new league.

Exactly!

What he is doing off the ball is as important as what he does with the ball.  Only a foolish defender would leave him unmarked and with that he takes defenders with him and creates gaps.

Just needs time and some Championship tweaking.

Posted
17 minutes ago, Euan BCFC said:

Yes, but I've seen highlights and heard from other people

Not enough to have a valid opinion in my view. Need to see it with your own eyes for an extended period. Absolutely silly to write Woodrow off after he's touched the ball less than 20 times in total.

Posted

He's showed glimpses of quality particularly against Barnsley and Brum. Still doesn't look fully fit to me and seems to die off slightly second half  so I'm hoping that's going to improve going forward. When Kodj first signed he rarely played 90 mins. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I thought he did alright last night, considering he had an AV player strapped to his back for most of the game…

That's the point, they certainly kept their eyes and a lot more on him.

Posted

Also, let's be honest he was up against 3 tough experienced defenders and did ok He will get easier games to show what he can do , his work rate was brilliant 

do you think he did better last night than Tammy did last week on the box if you saw it ? All 3 of villas defenders have played in the prem 

Posted

I thought he did okay last night to be honest. Gave the Villa defence enough to think about, was intriguing watching him up against 2 quality centre backs in Terry and Samba. 

Anyway, 5 games in a new country? I think I'll give him a bit longer than that. It was interesting to hear what they said about Pisano's reaction after the Brentford game (in terms of the football in this country).  

 

Posted

Not great thus far but part of his problem is the comparison with the main strikers of the last 2 seasons, and the top scorer so far in this one. Bit of patience hopefully required....

Posted
5 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I thought he did okay last night to be honest. Gave the Villa defence enough to think about, was intriguing watching him up against 2 quality centre backs in Terry and Samba. 

Anyway, 5 games in a new country? I think I'll give him a bit longer than that. It was interesting to hear what they said about Pisano's reaction after the Brentford game (in terms of the football in this country).  

 

Ye that made me laugh.

Posted

No surprise to see a massive over reaction from some on here.

He did ok last night, worked hard & played for the team & had 3 International CBs to compete against.

£5m is a lot of money though & I certainly don't buy the "that's what every Championship striker costs" line (ask Ipswich) but we clearly bought him to fit our pattern of play, something we cannot say about every signing.

He scored 8 in Ligue 1 last season & I would not be surprised if he only manages a couple more than that.

I've said this before, comparing him with Kodjia is harsh, JK was hugely underrated & unappreciated by some on here, but he was for me the best striker to play for us since Goater, though Maynard runs him close.

Posted

If OTIB (as one of the more high-brow City related sites) is this quick to write Diedhiou and Woodrow off; I dread to think what they're saying on that "CITY TILL' I DIE" Facebook site 

Posted
20 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I thought he did okay last night to be honest. Gave the Villa defence enough to think about, was intriguing watching him up against 2 quality centre backs in Terry and Samba. 

Anyway, 5 games in a new country? I think I'll give him a bit longer than that. It was interesting to hear what they said about Pisano's reaction after the Brentford game (in terms of the football in this country).  

 

what was that?

Posted

Not much more, if anything to add.  Those of you whose posts I clicked the "like" button are echoing my thoughts.

I'd suggest that some on here have no real appreciation of what it takes to play 'back to goal' at this level, or what it takes to bring out the best in your strike partner.  Or what it takes to make runs for the benefit of others, to create their space. Or what it takes to still make yourself an option knowing you're going to get a sh1t pass because the player passing it is under pressure.  Or what it takes to get a ball in from anywhere beneath shoulder height knowing your CB is gonna come through you, either hurting you or causing you to take a poor touch.

For those of us / most of us that have seen the 3x home games, then he had a 7/10, a 5/10 and a 6/10 imho.  He scored 1 and assisted 1 in those 3.  Hardly crap imho.

Posted
1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

After Brentford apparently he was sat in the dressing room shaking his head saying 'so fast, so fast' about English football.

 

bless him. He's getting there. 

Posted
8 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

Interesting I thought he was good tonight and worked hard to get to the lose balls and held up the ball better. Think it's far too early to judge him aswell.

Posted
1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Not much more, if anything to add.  Those of you whose posts I clicked the "like" button are echoing my thoughts.

I'd suggest that some on here have no real appreciation of what it takes to play 'back to goal' at this level, or what it takes to bring out the best in your strike partner.  Or what it takes to make runs for the benefit of others, to create their space. Or what it takes to still make yourself an option knowing you're going to get a sh1t pass because the player passing it is under pressure.  Or what it takes to get a ball in from anywhere beneath shoulder height knowing your CB is gonna come through you, either hurting you or causing you to take a poor touch.

For those of us / most of us that have seen the 3x home games, then he had a 7/10, a 5/10 and a 6/10 imho.  He scored 1 and assisted 1 in those 3.  Hardly crap imho.

I dont think he's crap and I'm going to give him more time. I do appreciate he does a lot of little things but my worry is he's not getting on the end of things in the box. We haven't been getting loads of chances in opponents box but I can't recall him having many touches in or around the box in the 3 games. He is a striker after all and to be honest I would be expecting at least 13-15 goals from him but he just doesn't look likely to score at the minute. LJ did say we weren't getting the ball to our forwards quick enough and maybe that plays him out of the game some. Wouldn't be as concerned if he'd have gotten a chance or two in each match and just missed them.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

After Brentford apparently he was sat in the dressing room shaking his head saying 'so fast, so fast' about English football.

 

Haha, I like Pisano, he seems a good guy. 

Where did you hear this? Was it in an LJ interview or something? 

Posted
7 minutes ago, RedSA said:

Haha, I like Pisano, he seems a good guy. 

Where did you hear this? Was it in an LJ interview or something? 

Mentioned it in the commentary last night.

Apparently it amused LJ and the rest of the team! 

Posted
2 hours ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

He isn't yet excelling, but he had a decent game last night and better than against Watford or Brentford. He will need a bit of time to adjust to the pace of the game, you can see him try flicks or take extra touches which might be fine in France but just won't work here. Also he's clearly a unit but needs to do some physical conditioning work which I'm sure the fitness team have covered. So in summary does he seem like £5.3m worth of player right now no, but ask me again in a couple of months and hopefully the answer will be different.

Exactly give the guy a break , judge him after another couple of months , did well last night but probably needs a proper striker up with him 

Posted

Excuse my French but lets just wait and #@#@**" see shall we?

It seems a few people here have seen definite promise, its not all about shooting and scoring (although that's lovely) there are other factors to consider when making a judgement rather than simplistic knee jerk reactions... I prefer for now to go with the considered opinions of people who are looking at a bigger picture..

  Jury out for now, lets wait for a majority verdict by around Christmastime eh? Things can only get better I hope, but in the meantime appearances so far may have left some disappointed but as long as they haven't proved detrimental to the team, and I don't think they have, then I say play on.  We may well be pleasantly surprised yet.

Guest redandy1
Posted
8 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

I thought  the same. It is early days but I was left wondering what his strengths were. Kodjia worried teams straight away with his pace.But this bloke does not seem to pose a threat of any sort.

 

 

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