Red Army 87 Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, Ian M said: I usually agree with a lot you say but we still have 25 players left here and with 11 starting plus 3 subs, 11 won't get any minutes at all each week and you want to keep 1 or 2 back to increase this to 13 getting minimal exposure to men's football. I would preferred two more to go out, Vyner (where Korey could do an ample job covering RB if required now we have lots of CMs of similar standard) and one of the two young goalies, preferably Lucic. Im not particularly fussed about the level, it's more about dealing with the challenge of men pushing you, fouling you etc and knowing what it means to really need those 3 points. U23 football may be technically proficient but you're playing against other kids who haven't fully developed their strength yet and for coaches who admit wins are nice but not the be all or end all. Look at the difference between Tammy's hold up play in August to May once he had a season of playing against men behind him. Another thing U23 football doesn't really prepare you for is playing in front of an expectant crowd, especially if your team are up against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said: Yes it's true I have mentioned him in this. Probably not many close to the first team that are out on loan. Just feel it would have been better to keep one or two around and close to the first team. For me, Dowling would've stuck around and I would give him a few minutes off the bench and a couple spot starts to see how he got on. For me, he looks a footballer. He's got the size, athleticism and football brain to succeed imo. He'll get good experience at Torquay(and only a month loan at the moment). Just feel like we could do a bit more to help some of them along to the first team without seriously disrupting the season. I get the feel we are more hoping someone has a good season in a lower league and is bought for a good profit similar to Wes Burns. Doesn't feel too much like they're prepping them for our first team. Not trying to sound negative because I think we are doing superbly with youth just think one or two more could be a bit more fast tracked. This isn't a criticism, but I wonder if your views on this come partly from being an American and American sport. I'm not a huge Basketball follower, but from what I understand, the draft system usually gives teams a few exciting prospects each season who get first team minutes with a view to being first team players. Sounds a bit like what you're proposing with Dowling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 16 hours ago, steviestevieneville said: Not suggesting the op is doing this, but in general there are plenty of fans who doesn't watch or listen to any interviews even though they're free. They then come on here moaning about things that have been clearly explained . I'm sure it wasn't a dig at me, but I'm not sure if that interview was posted yesterday before or after I started the thread. A bit of a coincidence - or was it - that it happened on the same day as the BP article? Possibly a coordinated media thing. Anyway, both the thread and the Tinnion interview have been very interesting. I thought it was a theme that would provoke a good discussion, and it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted September 6, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 30 minutes ago, Leveller said: I'm sure it wasn't a dig at me, but I'm not sure if that interview was posted yesterday before or after I started the thread. A bit of a coincidence - or was it - that it happened on the same day as the BP article? Possibly a coordinated media thing. Anyway, both the thread and the Tinnion interview have been very interesting. I thought it was a theme that would provoke a good discussion, and it has. The interview with Tins was released after your opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Ian M said: I usually agree with a lot you say but we still have 25 players left here and with 11 starting plus 3 subs, 11 won't get any minutes at all each week and you want to keep 1 or 2 back to increase this to 13 getting minimal exposure to men's football. I would preferred two more to go out, Vyner (where Korey could do an ample job covering RB if required now we have lots of CMs of similar standard) and one of the two young goalies, preferably Lucic. Im not particularly fussed about the level, it's more about dealing with the challenge of men pushing you, fouling you etc and knowing what it means to really need those 3 points. U23 football may be technically proficient but you're playing against other kids who haven't fully developed their strength yet and for coaches who admit wins are nice but not the be all or end all. Look at the difference between Tammy's hold up play in August to May once he had a season of playing against men behind him. I get you. Maybe it's us being a little "senior" heavy for my liking. I know we need experience but I'm more hoping our mid 20s guys can take this on like Baker, Wright, Pack and Fielding for example. That way Downling or Morrell could take the place of O'Neil for example. I just think the youth in England gets overlooked. That Sancho or Willock who've gone abroad this year will get quite a few minutes I would imagine in those leagues because the pressure isn't the same on the managers there. I'm just hoping we aren't stifling someone else just because someone has done it before. Think I've even read about a young man who was on loan at Stevenage last season who's gotten minutes for a German top flight team. Is someone like Morrell, Dowling or Hinds being overlooked because of experience and not what they've brought to the pitch in their time? 1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said: This isn't a criticism, but I wonder if your views on this come partly from being an American and American sport. I'm not a huge Basketball follower, but from what I understand, the draft system usually gives teams a few exciting prospects each season who get first team minutes with a view to being first team players. Sounds a bit like what you're proposing with Dowling? It could be but even in basketball they have a development league or European basketball if a player isn't quite ready for the NBA. Often a player can be drafted but not signed. They hold their draft rights and the player can play in the development league or in Europe to gain more experience. Just depends on the player. It may because the league and pool of players is smaller but in the NBA, not too many top prospects get overlooked. My thing with football is you see quite a few players leave one place to excel somewhere else because they didn't get the opportunity. As my response earlier on this, I just hope we aren't overlooking someone who has all the attributes just because he hasn't played too much. Maybe we don't have that player and the staff realised that everyone needed a loan. I don't know. What would probably ease my mind on it is Kelly and Vyner getting starts because they've earned them and to rest our other full backs. Not forced to play because of injury or suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Leveller said: I'm sure it wasn't a dig at me, but I'm not sure if that interview was posted yesterday before or after I started the thread. A bit of a coincidence - or was it - that it happened on the same day as the BP article? Possibly a coordinated media thing. Anyway, both the thread and the Tinnion interview have been very interesting. I thought it was a theme that would provoke a good discussion, and it has. No , not a dig at you at all just a general observation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaspberryRed Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 21 hours ago, glos old boy said: No difference, say what I think not what I`m told to think; do like tinman though. You are of course welcome to your views but that is harsh in the extreme about BT That man has given us great service & one of our greatest moments and stepped-up for a job he was never ready for again because he loves the club only for it to end in a really horrible way for all parties. I know as a fact he was really hurt & haunted by the whole experience and failing at a club he would run through brick walls for. That's why it's great he's back where he belongs and doing a fantastic job. Again knowing him very loosely then one thing Brian isn't and that is a puppet. He was born in a mining village and pretty much an adopted Geordie. Not sure if you know anyone from these areas or have ever met anyone then the last thing I would call them is a puppet. They tend to shoot in the hip and say how it is His demise at Bristol City as I alluded to earlier was a terrible terrible situation seeing him sat in the dugout at Swansea he was in pieces. The fact that you cannot argue with is that we may well be doing a Chelsea but surely that's a much more prudent way of doing things. Scouting young players bringing them through our Academy and maybe just maybe get to that point where half of the first team could be players that have potentially been with the club for four or five years if not longer. You have only have to look at Lloyd Kelly, George Dowling, and numerous others to see that there development comes on leaps and bounds for going out and having to find their feet as opposed to everything being done for them at academy level including their schooling. Is almost like you can physically and psychologically roadtest the players you have purchased or are developing and I can certainly feel the different air around the place in terms of everyone pulling in the same direction, making some great decisions about young players and also developing some top-quality talent that I have no doubt whatsoever will end up playing in the first team of the club that we all love. I know he wasn't our player but take Tammy for an example and yes I am probably cherry picking one of the best examples there has been in terms of young players on loan. He's been at Chelsea since he was a kid he's got the potential to play in their first team but was absolutely nowhere near being a regular so rather than play under 23 football they loan him to us for a season a win-win situation. If he'd only scored say 10 or 12 goals (yes not worth thinking about as we would have been relegated) the rest is history and he has now been loaned to a premiership team and I have no doubt he will probably be into double figures or nearing that by Christmas. A season of premiership football under his belt playing against the best players in the world and then BOOM everything every Chelsea fan wants to see an Academy youngster in their starting 11 week after week with the potential of becoming a scoring sensation. All achieved by loaning him to a club they trusted in the championship followed by one they trusted in the premiership and then they have delivered at their doorstep a player ready to score goals for the club he loves. I'm REALLY excited about numerous 16 to 21yo's on our books that will take the club forward, both in the 1st team and then large fee's in Tranfers or maintaining us in this league and beyond How the hell can that be wrong? Surely that's got to be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 05/09/2017 at 20:05, JamesBCFC said: As above the Tinnion interview is very good. A lot of it comes down to experience in 'real' football. Tinnion mentions a game where City U23s went down to 10 men because a player needed treatment after being elbowed. The referee then said that if it was "a proper match" the opposition striker would have been sent off for the elbow, but it wasn't, so he wasn't. Suprising-should be sent off for deliberate elbow whatever the game-kids,Sunday league,u23,premier league..orbital fractures can be extremely dangerous,so anything that helps to reduce such incidence practiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 05/09/2017 at 14:20, CheddarReds said: Some are and some aren't. There are some in the 23s (Bakinson perhaps as a guess from what's been said) who will need some coaching and a 'development pathway' if you like here at the club that can shoot him into the first team. Others will need a loan in their 'development pathway' as they need something you can't get on the training pitch, which might be to get kicks and knocks more often and to get their bodies used to that. There's not really an answer to say Morrell out on loan is 100% ahead of Bakinson because he's out on loan and Bakinson isn't, and the same vice versa. They're two different players who have different needs and are at different stages in reaching their potential. To reach that some players might need a loan some won't IMO. Good start for Morrell at Cheltenham-lets hope it continues and leads to a permenant-were planning to stay in the Championship/push on,and Joe ain't gonna make it. Take the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 If our U23s are now regarded well, does that mean they'll be invited to compete in next season's Checkatrade Trophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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