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Leeds, Wolves, Cardiff?

reddogkev

By reddogkev
in Football Chat

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reddogkev

reddogkev

Posted
Posted

Early days I know, but are we looking at the winner of the league in this trio of clubs?

If Wolves do go up, serious questions have to be asked about the massive outlay they've spent on players.

Please god, let Cardiff crash and burn soon.

As for Leeds, I just can't see them sustaining their early impressive form, but they are long overdue a return to the top. 

It seems to be a tough one to spot the potential winner of the league this time around - going to be exciting to see it all unfold.

 

 

 

Meh

Meh

Posted
Posted

I take it you meant if Wolves don’t go up questions have to be asked?

Out of the 3 I think Leeds and Wolves will be top 6 with us and Cardiff will fall out - playing above their station and teams will work them out.

LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted

I reckon Wolves and Leeds are going to be the two frontrunners for a while. Cardiff's improvement under Warnock is very impressive but I think they will ultimately drop back into the chasing pack. I think Wednesday, Middlesboro and Villa will push on and challenge too.  But I can easily see the top two staying out in front all season. 

One BCFC

One BCFC

Posted
Posted

As mad as it sounds I think Leeds will win it. They simply look like they will win every home game and their defence is the best in the League imo. The relegated sides simply have not performed as they should have and the big spenders like Villa still are yet to hit their full potential.

It could be 3 unlikely sides to be promoted

Lrrr

Lrrr

Posted
Posted

Think this could be the tightest promotion race in a long time, don't see anyone running away with this, wouldn't be surprised for the rest of the top 6 to all be in with a shout of auto promotion in the run in and the rest of the top 10 for play offs potentially. 

swanker

swanker

Posted
Posted

Wait until Villa find a bit of consistency. Good manager and a good squad. My money's on them for automatic promotion. I think Preston might be the dark horses for the play offs this season 

Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, spudski said:

My top 6 would consist of Leeds, Wolves, Boro, Villa, Sheff Weds, Brentford.

Not saying they're not a good side Spud, but that's a hell of an optimistic shout. No doubt they've been unlucky so far but with 7 points from 9 games they need to nigh on average 1.9- 2 points a game between now and the end of the season. They've got it in them to win games, just a bit much asking for that consistency for 37 games.

 

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

Early days I know, but are we looking at the winner of the league in this trio of clubs?

Still early but by now you can begin to see indications of where some teams might place

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

If Wolves do go up, serious questions have to be asked about the massive outlay they've spent on players.

Why?

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

Please god, let Cardiff crash and burn soon.

Hope so

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

As for Leeds, I just can't see them sustaining their early impressive form, but they are long overdue a return to the top. 

I think they will be top 6. Having huge away followings everywhere they go is probably worth a couple of points a season. 

1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

It seems to be a tough one to spot the potential winner of the league this time around - going to be exciting to see it all unfold.

Yeah probably a bit early to say. Middlesbrough should be up there, wouldn’t rule out Fulham being top 6 and Brentford could be up there too. I think their recent form is just a blip.

spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Not saying they're not a good side Spud, but that's a hell of an optimistic shout. No doubt they've been unlucky so far but with 7 points from 9 games they need to nigh on average 1.9- 2 points a game between now and the end of the season. They've got it in them to win games, just a bit much asking for that consistency for 37 games.

 

They are by far the best team in the league imo mate....can see them doing it.   Just ;-)

Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, spudski said:

They are by far the best team in the league imo mate....can see them doing it.   Just ;-)

What may help them, and this is where I think the rub is, is that if you take out say Bolton at the bottom then the rest of the division is so competitive. I said above 1.9 points per game for them - in reality I can see top 6 being far lower points than prior years just because of the competitiveness.

We're on 1.55 points per game - over a season that's 71. I can see that having potential to be enough this year for top 6.

spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

What may help them, and this is where I think the rub is, is that if you take out say Bolton at the bottom then the rest of the division is so competitive. I said above 1.9 points per game for them - in reality I can see top 6 being far lower points than prior years just because of the competitiveness.

We're on 1.55 points per game - over a season that's 71. I can see that having potential to be enough this year for top 6.

That's exactly why I see them just making it mate. As for us...I see us being more competitive, but still a mid table side. More losses being made into draws. Which is fine when it was two points for a win....but 1 point isn't as fruitful these days. 3 draws...or two losses and a win....no difference. But who knows...like you say, I can see it being very tight this season.

P'head Red

P'head Red

Posted
Posted

I think it's still too early to tell who's going to be in the automatics, but would think Leeds are the strongest at the moment. Long way to go, can't see Cardiff maintaining their form. 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Seen it all too often for front runners now and at the end of the season - the consistency only happens with one or two teams. There is always a tail off for the rest of the teams.

Give it another month or two and then we'll have an idea who might be in the mix. January will be something more definite.

You only have to look at us last season (personally, I just don't think it's going to happen again this season).

JoeAman08

JoeAman08

Posted
Posted

Leeds my pick to win it. They'll be tough. We'll see what the wolves foreign stars are made of in the winter months. They do look a strong side. Don't read too much into the money they've spent. 20m on young players is nothing. FFP is over 3 years. Play them for 2 years and sell them for at least what you bought them for. 

After those two, I'm not sure who will be in the mix. I didn't think Huddersfield would keep their form up all season so Cardiff could. Gritty defensively and a top striker. We look strong and I'd be happy if we finished where we are but I'd still say we are more likely to be around 12th. I'm not convinced by Norwich, Villa and Sunderland I think are for sure more likely to be related than promoted. Boro will be at least a playoff side. 

Such an open season I think. It would be a good year to push for playoffs as I don't think anyone is as good as Newcastle or Brighton last season. 

Top Robin

Top Robin

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, spudski said:

My top 6 would consist of Leeds, Wolves, Boro, Villa, Sheff Weds, Brentford.

 

1 hour ago, Spoons said:

My top six

boro , wolves, sheff wed, villa, derby, Leeds .

Do you guys actually support Bristol City? ..............OK I know you do but WTF?! 

Chivs

Chivs

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

 

Do you guys actually support Bristol City? ..............OK I know you do but WTF?! 

You know when we sing that song "We're by far the greatest team...", it might not actually be true? 

BCFC Grim

BCFC Grim

Posted
Posted

Don't think there's a stand out team this season, think Wolves will get one of the top two. Leeds were lucky to win yesterday by all accounts and awful at Millwall last weekend. Boro for rage money they've spent don't look convincing. Unlike last season, reckon it'll be quite tight at the top with no one or two teams running away with it.

Alex_BCFC

Alex_BCFC

Posted
Posted

Wolves should win the league. I expect Leeds, Boro, Villa to be in the mix for automatic. Then there are a load of teams who can get in the other playoff spots with us included. There is usually a surprise package - could be sheff Utd...

Bar BS3

Bar BS3

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BA14 RED said:

As mad as it sounds I think Leeds will win it. They simply look like they will win every home game and their defence is the best in the League imo. The relegated sides simply have not performed as they should have and the big spenders like Villa still are yet to hit their full potential.

It could be 3 unlikely sides to be promoted

It looks that way because they are on a roll. 

Wait until they lose a couple. They will lose at home. See how they react then. 

There is a long, long way to go yet before any team can be confident about where they might finish the season. 

Ultimately, the teams who keep their focus and composure later on will be the ones celebrating come may.  

CheddarReds

CheddarReds

Posted
Posted

Boro and Wolves automatic, Sheff Wed, Villa, Leeds and one more play offs. At the start of the season I had that last spot down as Derby's but they got smashed by some team that don't look half bad!

Tipps69

Tipps69

Posted
Posted

There is still 7 months to go of the season, a hell of a lot of football & just about anyone can take points off anyone (apart from Bolton, they would probably struggle to win in training).

Teams may well be able to put a string of wins together but they are just as likely to put a string of defeats together too, look at us last season, our start had some of you dreaming of the Premier League, our middle had us bricking it about League One!!

The money & the competitiveness of The Championship increases every season & there is always an outsider who makes a move for promotion, there are just too many good teams in this division to be able to rule out possibly 18 teams from making a move for promotion, especially this early in the season.

AppyDAZE

AppyDAZE

Posted
Posted

Outside tip for top 6

 

Sheff U.   not a big fan, but today they thoroughly deserved the win. And this kid they've got David Brooks who looks phenomenal

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Outside tip for top 6

 

Sheff U.   not a big fan, but today they thoroughly deserved the win. And this kid they've got David Brooks who looks phenomenal

I rate their manager very highly. Wasn’t there a rumour we made a tentative approach for him during the bad run last season and he turned us down?

AppyDAZE

AppyDAZE

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I rate their manager very highly. Wasn’t there a rumour we made a tentative approach for him during the bad run last season and he turned us down?

Pretty sure youre right

He's one of their own remember

Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted

I’ll be really disappointed if Sheffield Utd finish above us.

After our promotion I don’t want any sides to come up and do well, and therefore show that it is a difficult transition....rather than we totally messed it up!

AppyDAZE

AppyDAZE

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll be really disappointed if Sheffield Utd finish above us.

After our promotion I don’t want any sides to come up and do well, and therefore show that it is a difficult transition....rather than we totally messed it up!

Then prepare yourself. :laugh:

AppyDAZE

AppyDAZE

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Both clubs might be in a better position now because of it 

Who’d have thought that back then?

Think youre right again. Too northern for us..  looks a good manager but looks more Rugby League than football. Stick with our diminutive (southern) leader , I say

ScottishRed

ScottishRed

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll be really disappointed if Sheffield Utd finish above us.

After our promotion I don’t want any sides to come up and do well, and therefore show that it is a difficult transition....rather than we totally messed it up!

Sheffield United could be this seasons Barnsley, but so far they have done exceptionally well for a promoted team.

My guess for the top 2 are Villa and Boro

Grey Fox

Grey Fox

Posted
Posted

Think this season is so wide open that any three from roughly two thirds of the league have a genuine chance, and that includes us.

Leeds , Wolves and boro I think will be in the top six, but they will have to deal with the pressures of expectation  which will build as the season continues and will really bite if they have a poor patch. What the Italiens call a heavy shirt.

Should be fun.

 

On a seperate, point but did anyone watching the Sheffield derby think that both of those sides lacked the pace which we play with?

 

 

 

Bar BS3

Bar BS3

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll be really disappointed if Sheffield Utd finish above us.

After our promotion I don’t want any sides to come up and do well, and therefore show that it is a difficult transition....rather than we totally messed it up!

Or look at MK Dons, Wigan, Rotherham, Bolton. 

Last time I looked, we came up, stayed up and are now doing ok. 

havanatopia

havanatopia

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, spudski said:

My top 6 would consist of Leeds, Wolves, Boro, Villa, Sheff Weds, Brentford.

Brentford? wow. You must know something we don't or you just feel the early season pundits are and will be proven right. 

After last night i can see the Blades replacing Wednesday in that list. I think Cardiff, sad to say it, but will stay the course. But overall it is such early days and frankly Bolton could have an epiphany and go on a 15 game winning run. Unlikely I know but one never knows with this league.

 

harvey54

harvey54

Posted
Posted

Leaving myself open to ridicule I still think Birmingham City could still challenge. They bought well and if someone organises them a couple of wins could see them gain confidence. This league is wide open imho and it wouldn't surprise me if another 'smaller' club does a Huddersfield. Us maybe? 

As Gilbert used to say 'youze can always dream '.

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
On 9/24/2017 at 11:22, spudski said:

They are by far the best team in the league imo mate....can see them doing it.   Just ;-)

Brentford won't be near it now, they've got into a losing mentality at the moment and will struggle, I can't see them finishing above 12th, one win against a awful bolton side doesn't change that 

 

spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Brentford won't be near it now, they've got into a losing mentality at the moment and will struggle, I can't see them finishing above 12th, one win against a awful bolton side doesn't change that 

 

I'm not so sure mate...looking at their stats, they have probably been the best team overall in the league performance wise. When it comes to most shots on target, more than anyone else. The most dominant and busiest attack, yet quietest defence....one of the best attacks and best defences. They've either been unlucky or a bit wasteful with their chances.

From watching their performances, I feel they are probably the best all round club in the division and that their form and luck will turn.

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm not so sure mate...looking at their stats, they have probably been the best team overall in the league performance wise. When it comes to most shots on target, more than anyone else. The most dominant and busiest attack, yet quietest defence....one of the best attacks and best defences. They've either been unlucky or a bit wasteful with their chances.

From watching their performances, I feel they are probably the best all round club in the division and that their form and luck will turn.

as we know from last season stats can be deceiving when that mentality creeps in, good footballing side I agree but won't be up their this season 

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

as we know from last season stats can be deceiving when that mentality creeps in, good footballing side I agree but won't be up their this season 

Those sort of performance stats indicate eventually performances will turn. Obviously they can be deceiving, but it depends on the context of how you apply them.

Brentford are the only team to look comprehensively better than us so far this season, as we are one of the form sides in the division - that’s another good indicator.

I think they’re a good bet for top 6.

EnderMB

EnderMB

Posted
Posted
On 9/24/2017 at 09:55, reddogkev said:

If Wolves do go up, serious questions have to be asked about the massive outlay they've spent on players.

I think the question that will need to be asked is why other owners aren't making those sorts of connections, and why they're not spending the money needed to get into the Premier League.

Look at it another way. Is spending £40m on a successful squad in one year better than spending £40m on a mid-table club over four years?

LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

I think the question that will need to be asked is why other owners aren't making those sorts of connections, and why they're not spending the money needed to get into the Premier League.

Look at it another way. Is spending £40m on a successful squad in one year better than spending £40m on a mid-table club over four years?

I think the other question is whether we have Financial Fair Play regulations or not. At the moment it seems we have them but the enforcement is so weak that teams that follow the rules are indirectly penalised as a result. The solution has to be to either enforce the rules or scrap them completely. About time parachute payments were fazed out too, come to that. Teams by now should be savvy enough about the consequences of relegation from the Premier League to financially plan for that eventuality without additional money from the Premier League...

BCFC_Dan

BCFC_Dan

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm not so sure mate...looking at their stats, they have probably been the best team overall in the league performance wise. When it comes to most shots on target, more than anyone else. The most dominant and busiest attack, yet quietest defence....one of the best attacks and best defences. They've either been unlucky or a bit wasteful with their chances.

From watching their performances, I feel they are probably the best all round club in the division and that their form and luck will turn.

You might enjoy this piece about Brentford's troubles this season, written by a guy who worked for them: http://statsbomb.com/2017/09/inferior-tactical-strategies-the-bizarro-world-of-brentford/

They'll not go down, but something's not working as it should be there.

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Those sort of performance stats indicate eventually performances will turn. Obviously they can be deceiving, but it depends on the context of how you apply them.

Brentford are the only team to look comprehensively better than us so far this season, as we are one of the form sides in the division - that’s another good indicator.

I think they’re a good bet for top 6.

again I can point to last season,with us, I think we've got more chance of top six then them, and I don't think we are going to be near it ether,

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What do you mean by that? 

we had all the good stats in the world during our bad run but we kept making one or two mistakes a game and ended up losing by the odd goal (preston a side of course), we had a losing mentality and one or two bad eggs,

that combination was a disaster for us, now I can't speak for Brentford as I don't know what their players are like generally, but they are in a habit of not winning football matches, and one win against the worse side in the league doesn't change that,

They won't go down no chance of that, there are worse teams in this league, but they won't make the top 6,   

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

we had all the good stats in the world during our bad run but we kept making one or two mistakes a game and ended up losing by the odd goal (preston a side of course), we had a losing mentality and one or two bad eggs,

that combination was a disaster for us,

That supports mine and Spudski’s point though really, we turned it around eventually. The stats indicated we would.

Stats aren’t the only consideration of course, but help to show trends which you can apply to the bigger picture.

Quote

now I can't speak for Brentford as I don't know what their players are like generally, but they are in a habit of not winning football matches, and one win against the worse side in the league doesn't change that,

They won't go down no chance of that, there are worse teams in this league, but they won't make the top 6,   

I thought you said you don’t know what their players are like?

EnderMB

EnderMB

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the other question is whether we have Financial Fair Play regulations or not. At the moment it seems we have them but the enforcement is so weak that teams that follow the rules are indirectly penalised as a result. The solution has to be to either enforce the rules or scrap them completely. About time parachute payments were fazed out too, come to that. Teams by now should be savvy enough about the consequences of relegation from the Premier League to financially plan for that eventuality without additional money from the Premier League...

FFP has been a joke since it was implemented. All it essentially means is that any money spent on the club needs to go through the club by commercial means. Very few owners don't have business connections, so it's essentially worthless. If an owner wants to spend £500m, all they need to do is put £500m from a "sponsor" through the club.

Obviously, they shouldn't take the piss, but I don't think Wolves have. They've been in the Premier League, they have powerful connections, and £15m for a single player has happened before.

Hell, the only team to ever be called out on their spending (QPR a few years ago) told the Football League to **** off, and nothing happened to them.

FFP is a good way to ensure that a club doesn't liquidate itself, but if an owner wants to throw their cash around the Football League couldn't give a shit. It means more money for them, and more exposure.

Besides, if the fans worry about FFP, it means the club isn't successful enough to get promoted. Success often requires money, and if a club isn't willing to spend they shouldn't expect success.

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

FFP has been a joke since it was implemented. All it essentially means is that any money spent on the club needs to go through the club by commercial means. Very few owners don't have business connections, so it's essentially worthless. If an owner wants to spend £500m, all they need to do is put £500m from a "sponsor" through the club.

Obviously, they shouldn't take the piss, but I don't think Wolves have. They've been in the Premier League, they have powerful connections, and £15m for a single player has happened before.

Hell, the only team to ever be called out on their spending (QPR a few years ago) told the Football League to **** off, and nothing happened to them.

FFP is a good way to ensure that a club doesn't liquidate itself, but if an owner wants to throw their cash around the Football League couldn't give a shit. It means more money for them, and more exposure.

Besides, if the fans worry about FFP, it means the club isn't successful enough to get promoted. Success often requires money, and if a club isn't willing to spend they shouldn't expect success.

If done correctly, it should take into account "Fair Value", "Market Rate" and disallow any cash over that rate deemed unrealistic or unviable. Like may happen to PSG within a year.

Don't know how rigorously it is applied at this level. On paper though, it should be scrutinised strongly enough to pick up on such things.

FWIW, I agree on Wolves also. I think they can potentially make the sums add up on FFP as they made regular profits in PL, had the parachute payments, loaned out all their big earners when they were in League One and perhaps some in Championship too, generally have a pretty strong fanbase and if they structured fees correctly it can add up possibly. Within the allowable limits anyway.

http://www.wolvesfancast.com/ffp-mean-wolves/

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Would have thought at minimum one of them will be in the mix. Suspect all 3 to finish in the top 10- Wolves for the money and flair, Leeds as they are a major club who seem to be kicking into gear and Cardiff owing to a combination of Warnock and their excellent underlying stats. Indeed the only side with a better record in this sense is Brentford!

Cardiff most likely the ones to drop out but it wouldn't surprise me if they keep it going...

Brentford if their current trend of domination but not much rewards suddenly turns could go on a major roll- but they've left themselves a lot to do already.

Alex_BCFC

Alex_BCFC

Posted
Posted

Brentford are clearly a much better side than where they currently lie. We robbed them and it sounds as though they have had a bit of bad luck in some other games. I reckon they will be top ten.

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That supports mine and Spudski’s point though really, we turned it around eventually. The stats indicated we would.

Stats aren’t the only consideration of course, but help to show trends which you can apply to the bigger picture.

I thought you said you don’t know what their players are like?

I never said they are a bad side I said they won't make the top 6, nothing I've seen changes that and the fact they haven't finished in the top 6 since their first season in the championship also backs up what I'm saying as well,

Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

I never said they are a bad side I said they won't make the top 6, nothing I've seen changes that and the fact they haven't finished in the top 6 since their first season in the championship also backs up what I'm saying as well,

You said

I can’t speak for Brentford as I don’t know what their players are like

so I’m confused about how you can be so sure :P

BS4 on Tour...

BS4 on Tour...

Posted
Posted

Way too early in the season for predictions like this....in Dec 2003 Iain Dowie took over as Palace manager when they were 19th in the second tier, and got them promoted to the premier league that season....and in August 2006 Roy Keane became Sunderland manager when they were second from bottom of the championship, he got them promoted to the premier league that season...anything can happen in this division (not league) - anyone can beat anyone, pointless just discussing the teams at the top in September...

Monkeh

Monkeh

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You said

I can’t speak for Brentford as I don’t know what their players are like

so I’m confused about how you can be so sure :P

as in personality not whether they are bad players

cider-manc

cider-manc

Posted
Posted

You have to take Cardiff seriously because of the start they have had and the fact they have Colin in charge. I don't like him or his football- but the blokes record at this level speaks for itself.

Wolves have to be taken seriously because of the money they have spent- They are a big club who played some of the best attacking football I've seen at this level when we drew up there. However this may be down to the fact that we played a more open game than most will against them. Judgement should be reserved to see how their Portugal B team get on when the cold December days are creeping in but I think they will be there or there abouts.

Leeds I'm not sure about- looked a good outfit in the one game I watched on the tele box. However i have no idea of their strength in depth and lets be honest... We have seen Leeds choke many times before.

I think Villa could make a push for automatic. They look like they are finally getting their act together and lets not forget that this time last year Newcastle were pottering along around 10th in the table.

 

cider-manc

cider-manc

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Keyardiv said:

I'm not really sure with what's really wrong with Colin's football tbh. We're not a pitty-patty team that passes it endlessly around the half-way line to inflate our possession stats, but take a direct, attacking approach with power and pace and have had double the number of shots on goal compared to our opposition this season. Despite 40% possession or so on average. It can actually be very good to watch when it clicks.

I'll be honest, highlights aside, I am yet to see you play this season- So I'm probably just going off Colins past reputation and the fact I've seen far too many of his teams practising the dark arts.

When his Rotherham team came to the gate sticks in my mind- the ball probably only spent 25 minutes on the pitch by the time his team had taken 5 minutes over every throw in and gone down clutching their faces every time a city player walked by them- And this is before he complained in a press conference that Johnson was "a disgrace" after our manager had asked for an intimidating home atmosphere.

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