Major Isewater Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off .
Son of Fred Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Indeed Major-now is the time to give Jens good match time,a run in the side..has the 'legs & the quality.
Lew-T Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Lacking somebody like a Lansbury, Hourihane etc. Somebody that can pick a killer pass and score a goal or two! Smith and Pack are solid but offer very little in the final third.
Red-Robbo Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Patterson's game relies on him drifting in from the wings, making a right nuisance of himself popping up around the opposition box. That game, where they frequently had 6 men back in their area, wasn't made for him. A more traditional winger would've been the ticket.
WolfOfWestStreet Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: Patterson's game relies on him drifting in from the wings, making a right nuisance of himself popping up around the opposition box. That game, where they frequently had 6 men back in their area, wasn't made for him. A more traditional winger would've been the ticket. Think that's why eliasson got the nod, unfortunately he had a poor game. Leko made a huge difference and in hindsight prob should have started.
Super Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Lacking somebody like a Lansbury, Hourihane etc. Somebody that can pick a killer pass and score a goal or two! Smith and Pack are solid but offer very little in the final third. Or a Kevin De Bruyne!
Red-Robbo Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, WolfOfWestStreet said: Think that's why eliasson got the nod, unfortunately he had a poor game. Leko made a huge difference and in hindsight prob should have started. I was thinking COD might have been the chap required.
... Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Stop this - we are on an amazing run, and fourth in the table. GET OFF LEE JOHNSON'S BACK. tfj
myol'man Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Think that's why eliasson got the nod, unfortunately he had a poor game. Leko made a huge difference and in hindsight prob should have started. I think it would have been worth switching Leko to the left wing for the last 5 minutes, jink jink , cut inside, shoot, booooooooooom!
LondonBristolian Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Patterson's game relies on him drifting in from the wings, making a right nuisance of himself popping up around the opposition box. That game, where they frequently had 6 men back in their area, wasn't made for him. A more traditional winger would've been the ticket. This is it. In the nicest way possible, if Paterson could do what he does at his best against every team we come up against, he would be way too good for our club. The reason why he is in the Championship and not the Premier League is that he is a tremendously talented player but doesn't quite have the versatility to his game to always be able to turn it on if the game isn't made for him. I think Brownhill has the potential to be a superb midfielder for us but, again, he isn't quite there yet and does not turn it on every week. I think with Smith (when fully fit) and especially Pack, you essentially know exactly what level of performance you will get out of them week in, week out. Both are good Championship midfielders who can be relied upon to put their shift in and support the rest of the team but neither are players who are likely to provide the moment of inspiration in a tight game. I'm glad we have them both but I'd agree we need another option. O'Dowda shows glimpses of quality combined with poor decision making, Eliasson is still adjusting and it is too early to judge and Leko, as you might expect from a lad his age, can be incredible or invisible from moment to the next. I'd like Hegeler to get a bit more of a chance and I'd love us to sign a top quality Championship midfielder but players like that can be hard to come by. What is great is we are in a position where, if we kept everyone else, we could probably justify spending the entire of next summer's transfer budget on one central midfielder but, at the same time, a player of the quality we need would be in demand and it may also be a case of working with O'Dowda, Eliasson and Brownhill to see if they can be developed in time to become the type of players we crave.
spudski Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Well as it stands, we've got the 3rd best goals scored in the league and the second best goals difference. It's all about finding that balance of scoring and not conceding, so we've done amazingly well with what we've got. Sitting pretty in 4th place and only one of two teams that have lost just one game all season. If we continue in this vein, and get better quality in CM, either from our own players or new signing, then who knows what we could be capable of this season. Like the Major, I'd like to see Hegeler given a chance in CM. I personally think he's a quality player for this level.
Roger Red Hat Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I was thinking COD might have been the chap required. Spot on. I thought Leko was a liability and looked completely out of his depth.
Bar BS3 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, spudski said: Well as it stands, we've got the 3rd best goals scored in the league and the second best goals difference. It's all about finding that balance of scoring and not conceding, so we've done amazingly well with what we've got. Sitting pretty in 4th place and only one of two teams that have lost just one game all season. If we continue in this vein, and get better quality in CM, either from our own players or new signing, then who knows what we could be capable of this season. Like the Major, I'd like to see Hegeler given a chance in CM. I personally think he's a quality player for this level. But can Hegeler produce the intensity that is needed for our game plan..? He has quality, but I worry if having him in the centre of the park would derail the rest of the teams efforts and intimately spoil what we are doing. Maybe that's why he's now seen as more of a CB than a CM option..?
LondonBristolian Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said: But can Hegeler produce the intensity that is needed for our game plan..? He has quality, but I worry if having him in the centre of the park would derail the rest of the teams efforts and intimately spoil what we are doing. Maybe that's why he's now seen as more of a CB than a CM option..? Personally I think it is horses for courses. I certainly think there are a lot of games we've played where Hegeler is not the right option in central midfield but I also think that, whilst it is great LJ has got a clear idea of the team's identity and how he wants us to play, we need to tweak the plan for certain games (notably home games against teams that are going to defend deeply against us). I think it is in that tweaking that Hegeler may have a role.
Red Army 75 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, spudski said: Well as it stands, we've got the 3rd best goals scored in the league and the second best goals difference. It's all about finding that balance of scoring and not conceding, so we've done amazingly well with what we've got. Sitting pretty in 4th place and only one of two teams that have lost just one game all season. If we continue in this vein, and get better quality in CM, either from our own players or new signing, then who knows what we could be capable of this season. Like the Major, I'd like to see Hegeler given a chance in CM. I personally think he's a quality player for this level. 100% right . We've come along way . Only losing once is an amazing achievement. As for centre midfield we definitely need a signing in that department. And that's not knocking the lads who have been outstanding IMO . Just need something different. But as you say it's a balancing act . Fridays game reminded me of watching England trying to break down a poor international side . It's never easy.
Major Isewater Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: Spot on. I thought Leko was a liability and looked completely out of his depth. Strange how we see things differently, Leko picked the ball up in tight areas and either went direct into the box or more often did the ' Messi ' line along the penalty area. What he lacked was link up play with the others who were not always on the same wavelength. They haven't played with each other enough to know each other's game. He seemed the most likely to make something happen I thought. I hoped COD. would play , strange that he didn't. I see Elliassen , Leko and O'Dowda more as wingers , forwards , than midfielders though.
Red Army 75 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Friday we also massively missed Đurić and even Taylor IMO . LJ said he thought about putting Flint up front. We needed to do something like that . But we went for the win at Birmingham and come unstuck. So can understand his reservations
Super Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: Friday we also massively missed Đurić and even Taylor IMO . LJ said he thought about putting Flint up front. We needed to do something like that . But we went for the win at Birmingham and come unstuck. So can understand his reservations I don't think if we stuck Flint up front we would of been taking a risk as they never looked to attack.
Major Isewater Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: 100% right . We've come along way . Only losing once is an amazing achievement. As for centre midfield we definitely need a signing in that department. And that's not knocking the lads who have been outstanding IMO . Just need something different. But as you say it's a balancing act . Fridays game reminded me of watching England trying to break down a poor international side . It's never easy. England are exactly the point , they rarely play as a team . They don't know intuitively where to put the ball for their colleagues . Smaller nations teams play more like teams because they don't have so many changes in personnel around them.
Major Isewater Posted October 16, 2017 Author Posted October 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Super said: I don't think if we stuck Flint up front we would of been taking a risk as they never looked to attack. Sordell came into our half when he came on , if that counts as attacking ? I think we could have even put Frank Fielding up front without too much of a worry !
Phileas Fogg Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 36 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Think that's why eliasson got the nod, unfortunately he had a poor game. Leko made a huge difference and in hindsight prob should have started. Did he? He was just as wasteful if not more so.
Red Army 75 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Thatch35 said: Forget the quick passing game everyone thinks LJ is a master at (cant break down Burton with it though!) so get a big man upfront and lump it! ha ha. Oh look ******* back . Why don't u **** off . Really pissing me off .
'Orns Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, Thatch35 said: Forget the quick passing game everyone thinks LJ is a master at (cant break down Burton with it though!) so get a big man upfront and lump it! ha ha. Ask Derby what they thought of our performance against them Some you win, some you lose (or get a point). Rowett was very complimentary. You probably missed it though, what with being a one eyed, LJ hater
Fiale Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Against teams that offer little going forward (Burton) then Hegeler would have been a better choice, hes calm on the ball, likes to bring it forward and has a good pass on him (as well as a little vision) I am not sure he would suit the pace of a lot of games (though he may have improved since we last saw him). I think he makes a better CM than CB, he just feels wasted as a CB especially when we have so many CB options.
cidered abroad Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Major, a very good OP. Stick to the sensible stuff as it's way better than your warped humour.
Roger Red Hat Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Major, a very good OP. Stick to the sensible stuff as it's way better than your warped humour. No it isn't.
spudski Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: But can Hegeler produce the intensity that is needed for our game plan..? He has quality, but I worry if having him in the centre of the park would derail the rest of the teams efforts and intimately spoil what we are doing. Maybe that's why he's now seen as more of a CB than a CM option..? Is he any slower than Pack? Tbh...I think it's his languid style that makes people think he's slow. He covers ground quickly and has a very quick eye for a pass.
JoeAman08 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: Is he any slower than Pack? Tbh...I think it's his languid style that makes people think he's slow. He covers ground quickly and has a very quick eye for a pass. Strange one with Hegeler. Probably would've not suited our 442 last season but think he would now. We tend to have lots of possession which means he won't have to defend as rigourously. It's hard for me to grasp how he's played in the midfield in the champions league but can't for city. After the game Pack had the other night I'd be fine with a Brownhill and Hegeler pairing against Leeds though I would get Pack starting as he's more "trusted."
RobintheRed Red Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off . spot on midfield not consistant
steviestevieneville Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 5 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off . Agree with a lot of this major. Imo Korey is a out and out defensive midfielder. Breaks up play well but needs to give it quicker, dwells on the ball too much. Hasn't a creative streak. Josh I think will be a very good player , gets around the pitch well and has more quality on the ball than Korey but still has a lot too learn . Pack is currently our most creative CM especially at home. Would love to see Jens given a chance though, what we've seen of him he has undoubted quality and good vision but needs to play at pace.
OldlandReddies Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 6 hours ago, myol'man said: I think it would have been worth switching Leko to the left wing for the last 5 minutes, jink jink , cut inside, shoot, booooooooooom! Save that for Saturday. He'll run old tippy toes ragged.
TV Tom Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said: Save that for Saturday. He'll run old tippy toes ragged. Leto could destroy the painfully slow Ayling
WECANDO Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 With 15 to go, why not try something different and use Lekos pace and control upfront I.e. centre forward. Quick balls either side of their centre backs for him to run onto. His pace would have taken him clear. Don't always have to stick Flint up there.
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, WECANDO said: With 15 to go, why not try something different and use Lekos pace and control upfront I.e. centre forward. Quick balls either side of their centre backs for him to run onto. His pace would have taken him clear. Don't always have to stick Flint up there. Especially if a couple of their back four are on yellows.
Bar BS3 Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, spudski said: Is he any slower than Pack? Tbh...I think it's his languid style that makes people think he's slow. He covers ground quickly and has a very quick eye for a pass. It's not his pace, so much as his reaction time and urgency. In fairness, because it's a new style to him, he probably lacks the fitness to play in the middle of our current style too. Dont get me wrong, I like him as a player, I'm just looking at why he now appears to be regarded as more of a defensive option, than a midfield one.
WolfOfWestStreet Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Did he? He was just as wasteful if not more so. I dont think so he looked threatening at least. Elliason hardly had a kick. Anyway i dont think we'd have scored if we played that game 3times over.
Phileas Fogg Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: I dont think so he looked threatening at least. Elliason hardly had a kick. Anyway i dont think we'd have scored if we played that game 3times over. I had an excellent view of Leko as I was in the lower Lansdown nearer our 6 yard box. He really didn’t have much impact. I agree though, frustrating game. We need to find a way to break these teams down.
cheshire_red Posted October 16, 2017 Posted October 16, 2017 Horses for courses. Against a Burton who we knew would throw 10 behind the ball, would it have been better to push Reid in to an attacking central midfield role and told to roam wherever there was space and put Taylor up front with Fammy?
... Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: Oh look ******* back . Why don't u **** off . Really pissing me off . Were you on the M4 last Thursday? Wow. Lot of anger in there ............. tfj
spudski Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: It's not his pace, so much as his reaction time and urgency. In fairness, because it's a new style to him, he probably lacks the fitness to play in the middle of our current style too. Dont get me wrong, I like him as a player, I'm just looking at why he now appears to be regarded as more of a defensive option, than a midfield one. Who knows mate...until we play him, we'll never know. As for fitness...all our players in the squad will be fit enough, they have to be, it's a squad game. They will be pushed every day in training, so that they can fit in seamlessly. Take Magners for example....doesn't play regularly for us, but can play with no problems in World Cup qualifying games. At this time of the season they'll all be on the button imo.
Red Army 75 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Were you on the M4 last Thursday? Wow. Lot of anger in there ............. tfj Oh look. Another one who constantly chats shit
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 18 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Stop this - we are on an amazing run, and fourth in the table. GET OFF LEE JOHNSON'S BACK. tfj But expectations have been raised following our wonderful start, and people now expect 3 points from Burton. I don’t really see anyone having a go a johnson, just suggesting where we could improve by using our current personnel differently or where we might be deficient. Perhaps, read back the comments. I think it’s fair to say that following a very good window, the only gap we gave is a CM at the next level up. They don’t come cheap, so we may have to go with what we’ve got. In the recent window we wouldn’t have exactly been one of those clubs in the forefront of a player and his agent’s eyes. We might be in January, who knows! 18 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: 100% right . We've come along way . Only losing once is an amazing achievement. As for centre midfield we definitely need a signing in that department. And that's not knocking the lads who have been outstanding IMO . Just need something different. But as you say it's a balancing act . Fridays game reminded me of watching England trying to break down a poor international side . It's never easy. Very true. Wasn’t there on Friday, but the two home games we struggled were Bolton and Millwall, both teams put men behind the ball and played long. Assume Burton were similar? In the Bolton and Millwall games we actually looked better when we went back to front a little bit quicker. Diedhiou and Reid making runs ‘inside to out’ to exploit space in the channels between CB and FB, and the likes of Flint and Baker hitting them early. Not hoofs upfield but longer passing. It allowed us to get into their half quickly and meant there midfield Protection was now back-pedalling, with ours trying to get in front. It’s either that, or patient move side to side, wing to wing, but you have got to get in behind them at some point. I watched the highlights last night, Reid had a couple of One-on-ones that he might have scored from (plus the disallowed goal), that would’ve changed the game. You win some, you draw some. Not the end of the world. What would’ve been, was Sordell scoring late on.
Red Army 75 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: But expectations have been raised following our wonderful start, and people now expect 3 points from Burton. I don’t really see anyone having a go a johnson, just suggesting where we could improve by using our current personnel differently or where we might be deficient. Perhaps, read back the comments. I think it’s fair to say that following a very good window, the only gap we gave is a CM at the next level up. They don’t come cheap, so we may have to go with what we’ve got. In the recent window we wouldn’t have exactly been one of those clubs in the forefront of a player and his agent’s eyes. We might be in January, who knows! Very true. Wasn’t there on Friday, but the two home games we struggled were Bolton and Millwall, both teams put men behind the ball and played long. Assume Burton were similar? In the Bolton and Millwall games we actually looked better when we went back to front a little bit quicker. Diedhiou and Reid making runs ‘inside to out’ to exploit space in the channels between CB and FB, and the likes of Flint and Baker hitting them early. Not hoofs upfield but longer passing. It allowed us to get into their half quickly and meant there midfield Protection was now back-pedalling, with ours trying to get in front. It’s either that, or patient move side to side, wing to wing, but you have got to get in behind them at some point. I watched the highlights last night, Reid had a couple of One-on-ones that he might have scored from (plus the disallowed goal), that would’ve changed the game. You win some, you draw some. Not the end of the world. What would’ve been, was Sordell scoring late on. That would of been the ultimate smash and grab .
Phileas Fogg Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thatch35 said: Delighted. But again your missing a chance to discuss. Most people again missed the point of my post. Why change what has been working, ie a fast passing game and change to lumping it up to someone like Flint? Seems totally pointless to me and against everything LJ is trying to put in place regarding a pattern of play. Well, I think you do need a plan B. Sometimes teams just won't be broken down by incisive passing and you have to win ugly. Actually, ugly isn't the right word. I find it immensely satisfying to see a powerful header from a cross. Some of my favourite players have been big forwards - Adebola was always one I particularly enjoyed watching.
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Well, I think you do need a plan B. Sometimes teams just won't be broken down by incisive passing and you have to win ugly. Actually, ugly isn't the right word. I find it immensely satisfying to see a powerful header from a cross. Some of my favourite players have been big forwards - Adebola was always one I particularly enjoyed watching. Still think Trevor Morgan’s header v Chester is one of the best I’ve seen at AG. Head it back from where it came from...perfect. I like seeing those big target men with good touch and appreciation of movement around them.
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: Hegeler over Pack? Ok, next joke please. I doubt you'd get it so I shan't bother .
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 Just now, Major Isewater said: I doubt you'd get it so I shan't bother . Probably just as poor as the Hegeler over Pack one tbf. There's a reason why he has been chosen as a CB backup and not pushing for a midfield place. If Pack were to be replaced it would need to be with a Hourihane type player as it was alluded to before, not Hegeler...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 13:31, Major Isewater said: Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off . You pretty close to how it is I reckon
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 49 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: Probably just as poor as the Hegeler over Pack one tbf. There's a reason why he has been chosen as a CB backup and not pushing for a midfield place. If Pack were to be replaced it would need to be with a Hourihane type player as it was alluded to before, not Hegeler... You presumably know the reason why Hegeler has not had a run of games in midfield ? The lad has a pedigree . I don't see that Pack is better than him in midfield. They are not the same player but share many attributes. l I just have doubts over Pack . I feel he has reached his limit and I will him on but he disappoints too often . His shooting is appalling . Hegeler may just have that bit of extra quality but we won't see it unless he gets a chance . If you had the pick of the two, on paper , you'd go for Hegeler every time . We know we need a bit of nous in there and I'm certain that JH can be the man. I find it odd that last season LJ said that he would build the team around Hegeler and now the lad can't even get a regular start . I appreciate the excellent start to our campaign and this is just a reply to the lack of goalscoring chances against Burton not a criticism of MP.
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Hegeler is a quality player. I actually think if we were in the Premier League he would be higher up the pecking order for midfield. A division up and they have so much more time on the ball in midfield, which would suit him perfectly. But in the Championship there is a tendency to close down the midfield quicker. Simply in ability terms- ignoring the system we play and how they are suited- Hegeler is among our best for midfield. What are you basing Hegeler being a quality player on? Because the games that I have seen whilst he is playing in midfield he wouldn't improve it as we are at the moment.
Ska Junkie Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 Was it LJ or JH himself that said Jens was a centre half? I can't remember. If he's finally up to the speed / fitness required of a midfielder in this league then let him loose I say!
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: You presumably know the reason why Hegeler has not had a run of games in midfield ? The lad has a pedigree . I don't see that Pack is better than him in midfield. They are not the same player but share many attributes. l I just have doubts over Pack . I feel he has reached his limit and I will him on but he disappoints too often . His shooting is appalling . Hegeler may just have that bit of extra quality but we won't see it unless he gets a chance . If you had the pick of the two, on paper , you'd go for Hegeler every time . We know we need a bit of nous in there and I'm certain that JH can be the man. I find it odd that last season LJ said that he would build the team around Hegeler and now the lad can't even get a regular start . I appreciate the excellent start to our campaign and this is just a reply to the lack of goalscoring chances against Burton not a criticism of MP. That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. In terms of shooting, I haven't seen Hegeler have many shots in the games he's played. The same question marks you have over Pack could be applied to any of our midfield (with the exception of Brownhill for shooting) in that case.
Phileas Fogg Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. It does. Just because Nicky Hunt was a poor signing doesn't mean you ignore the past pedigree of a player, it's such a silly point of view.
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. In terms of shooting, I haven't seen Hegeler have many shots in the games he's played. The same question marks you have over Pack could be applied to any of our midfield (with the exception of Brownhill for shooting) in that case. It means that during his professional career he's had better technical training and played with and against better players than Pack has . It could just make the difference between a draw and a win. Pack has had many more starts in midfield then Hegeler and we all love him but I don't see him improving . It's a Luke Freeman situation all over again for me . We all waited for him to deliver but in vain. Good players that we need to improve on if we want to move up the pyramid.
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: It means that during his professional career he's had better technical training and played with and against better players than Pack has . It could just make the difference between a draw and a win. Pack has had many more starts in midfield then Hegeler and we all love him but I don't see him improving . It's a Luke Freeman situation all over again for me . We all waited for him to deliver but in vain. Good players that we need to improve on if we want to move up the pyramid. So have a lot of players at this level doesn't mean they are going to be better. I see you glossed over my point about it applying to our other midfielders too. So by definition you are saying that both Smith and Pack need to be replaced to move up?
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: It does. Just because Nicky Hunt was a poor signing doesn't mean you ignore the past pedigree of a player, it's such a silly point of view. I could argue that just because you assume that due to this "pedigree" a player is automatically going to be great is also a "silly point of view".
... Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: Oh look. Another one who constantly chats shit For your own health - PLEASE calm down. Jesus! tfj
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said: Hegeler is a quality player. I actually think if we were in the Premier League he would be higher up the pecking order for midfield. A division up and they have so much more time on the ball in midfield, which would suit him perfectly. But in the Championship there is a tendency to close down the midfield quicker. Simply in ability terms- ignoring the system we play and how they are suited- Hegeler is among our best for midfield. Interesting view that there is more time on the ball in midfield in the Prem...if you’d said across the back 4 I’d agree, but midfield, no (imho). I just think it’s as intense if not quicker in the Prem, it’s just the players are better, better touch, better awareness, better picture of the game around them etc. They sometimes make it look slower as a result. Sometimes tactics make it look that way too. I watched bits of the Wolves v Villa game on Saturday evening, and every time Neves looked like he was going to get caught on the ball, he played a lovely pass, committing his opponent. It was like he knew how to suck his opponent in, whilst being totally in control of what he was trying to do. I know he’s touted as a £15m Defensive Midfielder, but he is far more than that and probably one of the best players I’ve seen (on telly) at this level.
PHILINFRANCE Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Interesting view that there is more time on the ball in midfield in the Prem...if you’d said across the back 4 I’d agree, but midfield, no (imho). I just think it’s as intense if not quicker in the Prem, it’s just the players are better, better touch, better awareness, better picture of the game around them etc. They sometimes make it look slower as a result. Sometimes tactics make it look that way too. I watched bits of the Wolves v Villa game on Saturday evening, and every time Neves looked like he was going to get caught on the ball, he played a lovely pass, committing his opponent. It was like he knew how to suck his opponent in, whilst being totally in control of what he was trying to do. I know he’s touted as a Defensive Midfielder, but he is far more than that and probably one of the best players I’ve seen at this level. So, a bit like Hegeler, perhaps?
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: So, a bit like Hegeler, perhaps? Maybe. Would like to see him in this Johnson side / style at some point.
simon uk Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 Hegeler is a technically a fine player, but hasn’t adjusted to the pace of British football in my opinion. Also in my opinion we could do better in terms of central midfield, though I acknowledge pack and smith have been fine servants for us.
PHILINFRANCE Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 30 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Maybe. Would like to see him in this Johnson side / style at some point. Let's not exaggerate, but something of a Bechenbauer type. Somebody, perhaps @spudski ?, referred earlier to his languid style, and that is what I have seen in my televised (not live, for which there is no substitute) highlights so far this season - cool, calm and collected, bringing the ball out of defence after the (hard, but non ball-playing) intervention of Flint and Baker.
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Let's not exaggerate, but something of a Bechenbauer type. Somebody, perhaps @spudski ?, referred earlier to his languid style, and that is what I have seen in my televised (not live, for which there is no substitute) highlights so far this season - cool, calm and collected, bringing the ball out of defence after the (hard, but non ball-playing) intervention of Flint and Baker. I’ve mentioned his laid-back style before Phil. His touch is not about just getting it under, but moving it into position for his next touch pass. He looks unrushed, calm...the sign of a bit of class. He has deceptive pace, recovery pace. But he is not going to swarm around opponents like a Smith in the midfield. The question is how to accommodate him. I think in our current style he could play in a two (last season we weren’t sure of our identity). Palace would be a good game to see.
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, simon uk said: Hegeler is a technically a fine player, but hasn’t adjusted to the pace of British football in my opinion. Also in my opinion we could do better in terms of central midfield, though I acknowledge pack and smith have been fine servants for us. He can only adjust if he plays regularly .
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 59 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: So have a lot of players at this level doesn't mean they are going to be better. I see you glossed over my point about it applying to our other midfielders too. So by definition you are saying that both Smith and Pack need to be replaced to move up? If you play on the Downs and are coached by an amateur you will rarely improve as a player . If you are coached by professionals and play with better players you are, evidently, going to become more proficient or get left behind. View the number of games JH has played at a much higher level I can see that he was more than competent. No ' glossing ' , I think , as I said in my original post that our midfield is adequate but needs upgrading if we want to climb the pyramid. Nigel Clough and Lee Johnson. agree with me .
Tears in rain Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 I know Jackson Irvine has left Burton but where did he transfer? He seemed like a player capable of playing CM and getting goals etc.
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Tears in rain said: I know Jackson Irvine has left Burton but where did he transfer? He seemed like a player capable of playing CM and getting goals etc. Hull City
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Posted October 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Hull City That went well then .
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