Lew-T Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Changes in defence, midfield and the forwards. I said then it was going to be a struggle! You can’t expect it to tick. We missed some key players today due to unfortunate circumstances, however I do think LJ was wrong with Hegeler at CB when you have Wright and Hörður who are central defenders by trade. But that’s another discussion! Very bad day today, that’s all we can say. We’re still in the top 6 and we go to Sunderland next week who are in bad form! Hopefully Baker and Pato will be fit. You Reds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I thought it was very odd to play hegeler there. I maintain he is not a cb at good championship level. Holding midfield yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOutWest Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Bad day at the office. All season we have been boasting about having two players for every position, and we could actually field two first 11's. However, I think that has been completely dispelled in one 90 minute performance. Patterson and Smith have been instrumental all season and have left a massive hole that incoming and rotating players were unable to fill. Baker has been massive all season. These 3 players look irreplaceable with our current squad. Majority of changes were inforced. Not sure how anyone can blame LJ for selection today. On hindsight HM could have started, but I think we came up against a very good Leeds team. The ball never stuck up front, we didnt have a strong enough midfield to win the ball back and our defence was mostly at sixes and sevens. The Hörður Magnasson discussion deflects from a very poor all round performance, with the exception of Joe Bryan. The team will be very glad for Tuesday where they can put things right. Stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 minute ago, WayOutWest said: Bad day at the office. All season we have been boasting about having two players for every position, and we could actually field two first 11's. However, I think that has been completely dispelled in one 90 minute performance. Patterson and Smith have been instrumental all season and have left a massive hole that incoming and rotating players were unable to fill. Baker has been massive all season. These 3 players look irreplaceable with our current squad. Majority of changes were inforced. Not sure how anyone can blame LJ for selection today. On hindsight HM could have started, but I think we came up against a very good Leeds team. The ball never stuck up front, we didnt have a strong enough midfield to win the ball back and our defence was mostly at sixes and sevens. The Hörður Magnasson discussion deflects from a very poor all round performance, with the exception of Joe Bryan. The team will be very glad for Tuesday where they can put things right. Stevo A lot of truth there but no one forced a change to the forwards or not making a straight swap for Baker with Magnússon. Patterson was missed and we won nothing in midfield which tells its own story with Smith. I would have played Hegeler for Smith personally and Magnússon for baker obviously. The rub is we gave a decent tam a two goal start and they were farting through silk for the entire 90 minutes....Bad day yes! self inflicted largely! Move on definitely!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Changes in defence, midfield and the forwards. I said then it was going to be a struggle! You can’t expect it to tick. We missed some key players today due to unfortunate circumstances, however I do think LJ was wrong with Hegeler at CB when you have Wright and Hörður who are central defenders by trade. But that’s another discussion! Very bad day today, that’s all we can say. We’re still in the top 6 and we go to Sunderland next week who are in bad form! Hopefully Baker and Pato will be fit. You Reds! It's quite easy for everyone to be slagging off the Hegeler selection. It's natural for fans to do so after a defeat I guess But the fans also appear to have very short memories, because last time out against Stoke, Hegeler was absolutely fantastic and based of that, deserved to start today. Everyone saying Johnson got it wrong today are a joke. Baker, Pato and Korey all out injured and he replaced them with Hegeler, Pack and Leko - which to me, were the obvious choices Bad day at the office, but please don't get emotional and go into a meltdown (aimed at everyone), it's embarrassing. Up the City x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldlandReddies Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Missing probably our three top players so far this season. Difficult to get away with that. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOutWest Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 53 minutes ago, REDOXO said: I would have played Hegeler for Smith I wrote on a thread a while back after a rare Smith bad game, that I thought Hegeler was more of a replacement for him. I totally agree with you that Hegeler for Smith and Magnasson for Baker would be the correct way to go. Maybe in training Hegeler looked good. It would appear Magnasson still has much to do to convince LJ he is a starter. But lets just sit back and reflect that it was a big ask for Hegeler to come in for his first league start since Barnsley. He didnt shine, as much as Leko didnt shine, likewise with Elisasson last week. More questions than answers for LJ in the last 2 games. These players must come in an grab their opportunities. That is what a depth squad can do. We can talk about it, but in reality, we are lacking. Stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Why not play Vyner at RB, moving Wright to his natural position, alongside Flint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, WayOutWest said: I wrote on a thread a while back after a rare Smith bad game, that I thought Hegeler was more of a replacement for him. I totally agree with you that Hegeler for Smith and Magnasson for Baker would be the correct way to go. Maybe in training Hegeler looked good. It would appear Magnasson still has much to do to convince LJ he is a starter. But lets just sit back and reflect that it was a big ask for Hegeler to come in for his first league start. He didnt shine, as much as Leko didnt shine, likewise with Elisasson last week. More questions than answers for LJ in the last 2 games. These players must come in an grab their opportunities. That is what a depth squad can do. We can talk about it, but in reality, we are lacking. Stevo It wasn't Hegeler's first league start- he began the season in the side and only lost his place when we lost at B'ham. Not hindsight for me as I said it all before KO, our best 4 CBs are (in order): Baker, Wright, Flint, Magnússon, so why we started with our fifth best one when three of the other four were available today was baffling. Even more so when the one absent is all left footed and so of course is Hörður.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOutWest Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, GrahamC said: It wasn't Hegeler's first league start- he began the season in the side and only lost his place when we lost at B'ham. Yup, went to double check forgot and posted...and still got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 For me the one questionable selection was Woodrow for Diedhiou, but I wasn’t surprised by that with Woodrow ineligible Tuesday. On BBCRB, LJ pretty much said Jens is a CB, Magnüsson is a LB, and that’s the way they’ve been training. Bringing Mags in a CB would be less familiar for him, but also the partnerships practiced in training. All sounds sensible. It just didn’t pay off today. Poor team performance....which could’ve come from any line-up today. Baker - a leader, missed his leadership today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said: Why not play Vyner at RB, moving Wright to his natural position, alongside Flint? Easy to say that in hindsight. I doubt many would pick Vyner to start unless they really had to prior to today’s game. Would rather Brownhill played rightback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 30 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said: Why not play Vyner at RB, moving Wright to his natural position, alongside Flint? I get why Johnson didn’t do this, possibly too much of a disruption to a settled back 4. I thought Hegeler was the best choice to replace Baker, if not the most obvious, given he started the season. But if Magnússon can’t get a start when the left sided central defender is out then something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 hours ago, WayOutWest said: Bad day at the office. All season we have been boasting about having two players for every position, and we could actually field two first 11's. However, I think that has been completely dispelled in one 90 minute performance. Patterson and Smith have been instrumental all season and have left a massive hole that incoming and rotating players were unable to fill. Baker has been massive all season. These 3 players look irreplaceable with our current squad. Majority of changes were inforced. Not sure how anyone can blame LJ for selection today. On hindsight HM could have started, but I think we came up against a very good Leeds team. The ball never stuck up front, we didnt have a strong enough midfield to win the ball back and our defence was mostly at sixes and sevens. The Hörður Magnasson discussion deflects from a very poor all round performance, with the exception of Joe Bryan. The team will be very glad for Tuesday where they can put things right. Stevo Yes the changes were unavoidable , that's fair enough. Still say with Baker out then Mags (as a straight swap) or Wright (in the position he played last year) would have made more sense. The entire back 4 looked all at sea, and I put that down to the changes. Smith and Pack have been rotated to an extent and Pato maybe a different type to COD or Leko but I don't see that as a change for the worse . Leko had a decent first half and COD's delivery was good , although no one really had a GOOD game. As for looking to Tuesday to put things right , I thought that after Burton. I'm not confident for Tuesday , and we need to get back into some form soon or last years run could start to haunt us more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Harking back to last season and same stage of play “he doesn’t know his best side” comes to mind yes there were a couple of enforced changes, but the second half improvement proved that the players out of their natural positions upset the whole rhythm of the team from the start! Put it right it right for the next game please COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I think LJ and the coaching staff, have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong this time. Set up was wrong, players were wrong....then certain players had bad games. Put that all together, and you get the result we deserved. Much of the game reminded me of when we had Tomlin playing for us last season. In this instance Leko being the new Tomlin. Obviously the kid has talent, but it's like watching Tomlins and Adomahs love child. Trying to do it all on his own...then when not getting the outcome he wanted, standing their sulking instead of tracking back whilst the opposition break. He was all at sea first half...Flint and Pack both had words to calm him and for him to get a grip. We lost so much shape when he was playing...all over the place. Woodrow should never have been chosen over Diediou....especially trying to lead the line against Leeds. Ridiculous idea...he offered absolutely no threat. Having him and Leko in the team together was an accident waiting to happen. Flint had a really poor game...He put Hegeler in some ridiculous situations. As much as I like Hegeler...today wasn't the time to play him next to Flint. Should have been Magners all day long. Todays starting line up, taking injuries and illness into consideration should have been imo.... ----------------------------------------------------Fielding------------------------------------------------- Wright-------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners------------------Bryan -----------------------------------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------Brownhill----------------------------------Odowda-------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------Reid-------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------Diediou----------------------Taylor-------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, spudski said: I think LJ and the coaching staff, have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong this time. Set up was wrong, players were wrong....then certain players had bad games. Put that all together, and you get the result we deserved. Much of the game reminded me of when we had Tomlin playing for us last season. In this instance Leko being the new Tomlin. Obviously the kid has talent, but it's like watching Tomlins and Adomahs love child. Trying to do it all on his own...then when not getting the outcome he wanted, standing their sulking instead of tracking back whilst the opposition break. He was all at sea first half...Flint and Pack both had words to calm him and for him to get a grip. We lost so much shape when he was playing...all over the place. Woodrow should never have been chosen over Diediou....especially trying to lead the line against Leeds. Ridiculous idea...he offered absolutely no threat. Having him and Leko in the team together was an accident waiting to happen. Flint had a really poor game...He put Hegeler in some ridiculous situations. As much as I like Hegeler...today wasn't the time to play him next to Flint. Should have been Magners all day long. Todays starting line up, taking injuries and illness into consideration should have been imo.... ----------------------------------------------------Fielding------------------------------------------------- Wright-------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners------------------Bryan -----------------------------------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------Brownhill----------------------------------Odowda-------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------Reid-------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------Diediou----------------------Taylor-------------------------------------- I'd pretty much agree with all of that. I really think if I was Maggers I'd be desperate to leave in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Magnússon will want regular first team football at a decent level ahead of the World Cup, where he will really want to feature. Unless Joe Bryan gets an injury he's not going to play at left back, while it seems LJ doesn't rate him as a central defender, which seems a bit baffling. Again though if Baker is fit, Baker is first choice next to Flint. I can see Magnússon asking for a move in January if things don't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityred exile Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Reckon L J Felt he had to start the two loanies Woodrow And Leco knowing the were cup tied on Tuesday , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: I think LJ and the coaching staff, have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong this time. Set up was wrong, players were wrong....then certain players had bad games. Put that all together, and you get the result we deserved. Much of the game reminded me of when we had Tomlin playing for us last season. In this instance Leko being the new Tomlin. Obviously the kid has talent, but it's like watching Tomlins and Adomahs love child. Trying to do it all on his own...then when not getting the outcome he wanted, standing their sulking instead of tracking back whilst the opposition break. He was all at sea first half...Flint and Pack both had words to calm him and for him to get a grip. We lost so much shape when he was playing...all over the place. Woodrow should never have been chosen over Diediou....especially trying to lead the line against Leeds. Ridiculous idea...he offered absolutely no threat. Having him and Leko in the team together was an accident waiting to happen. Flint had a really poor game...He put Hegeler in some ridiculous situations. As much as I like Hegeler...today wasn't the time to play him next to Flint. Should have been Magners all day long. Todays starting line up, taking injuries and illness into consideration should have been imo.... ----------------------------------------------------Fielding------------------------------------------------- Wright-------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners------------------Bryan -----------------------------------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------Brownhill----------------------------------Odowda-------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------Reid-------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------Diediou----------------------Taylor-------------------------------------- Been spending a bit of time tonight thinking about what went wrong. Not trying to single out Leko (first time I’ve seen him), but I think he maybe created some of the imbalance. You’d think at home, he’s the perfect option to unlock a defence, but I’m not sure Leeds are a side that get 10 behind the ball like Bolton, Burton, Millwall. I think he made life awkward for Bailey Wright behind him. Tough defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: I think LJ and the coaching staff, have to hold their hands up and say they got it wrong this time. Set up was wrong, players were wrong....then certain players had bad games. Put that all together, and you get the result we deserved. Much of the game reminded me of when we had Tomlin playing for us last season. In this instance Leko being the new Tomlin. Obviously the kid has talent, but it's like watching Tomlins and Adomahs love child. Trying to do it all on his own...then when not getting the outcome he wanted, standing their sulking instead of tracking back whilst the opposition break. He was all at sea first half...Flint and Pack both had words to calm him and for him to get a grip. We lost so much shape when he was playing...all over the place. Woodrow should never have been chosen over Diediou....especially trying to lead the line against Leeds. Ridiculous idea...he offered absolutely no threat. Having him and Leko in the team together was an accident waiting to happen. Flint had a really poor game...He put Hegeler in some ridiculous situations. As much as I like Hegeler...today wasn't the time to play him next to Flint. Should have been Magners all day long. Todays starting line up, taking injuries and illness into consideration should have been imo.... ----------------------------------------------------Fielding------------------------------------------------- Wright-------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners------------------Bryan -----------------------------------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------Brownhill----------------------------------Odowda-------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------Reid-------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------Diediou----------------------Taylor-------------------------------------- I can see why he has played Wright at fullback while it's been going ok with Flint and Baker. Ok he doesn't have enough faith in Vyner to step in . But with Baker out if he doesn't fancy Mags then surly Wright has to come back into his real position in the team. The back four at the start of Pissano, Baker, Wright and Bryan is what he must want. As big as Flint is he's not a bully,dosen't go through players like the other two center backs. Anyway I would rather have Wright back in the middle and give Vyner his legs at fullback. Whatever if Pissano is not back soon it's a big flaw in our setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Been spending a bit of time tonight thinking about what went wrong. Not trying to single out Leko (first time I’ve seen him), but I think he maybe created some of the imbalance. You’d think at home, he’s the perfect option to unlock a defence, but I’m not sure Leeds are a side that get 10 behind the ball like Bolton, Burton, Millwall. I think he made life awkward for Bailey Wright behind him. Tough defeat. I actually think Leko and Elliason are both steps backward in the way we play. I think out and out wingers leave us way too open in midfield. I prefer the role Patterson and Odowda play. With width, but with better link up play and defensive duties. The amount of times Leko and Eliasson have lost the ball whilst in the corners, is far more than they create. They are then both out of position to defend in midfield. Today we saw it with Leko...against Burton we saw it with Elliason. If LJ thinks we are stronger with out and out wingers, then imo, I think he's wrong. We are much more solid with a slightly narrower midfield and width coming from overlapping fullbacks. Perhaps it was purely down to injuries and illness today. Which might be a blessing in disguise and show LJ that with injuries we aren't as good a squad as he may think. I don't think Leeds looked particularly brilliant....we just made them look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Without Pisano we don't have the same set up as the left side. Bailey Wright is a more than capable right back but overlapping runs down the sideline like Bryan are not his thing. So if we want width on the right then LJ is likely to go with a different option such as Leko as an out-and-out winger. However it means there are a lot of defensive duties to be done by the other players, and that will pull Brownhill or Pack out of the centre of midfield, leaving us light there. My biggest worry is the lack of invention without Paterson. The Leeds centre halves bullied Reid (literally given some of the physical abuse he received) while Woodrow offered nothing up front today. Leko got in a few crosses in the first half, while O'Dowda still fails to see the quick first time ball and often slows up a break rather than taking it forward or having a first time shot. Quite a lot of work to do on the training pitch before Tuesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, spudski said: I actually think Leko and Elliason are both steps backward in the way we play. I think out and out wingers leave us way too open in midfield. I prefer the role Patterson and Odowda play. With width, but with better link up play and defensive duties. The amount of times Leko and Eliasson have lost the ball whilst in the corners, is far more than they create. They are then both out of position to defend in midfield. Today we saw it with Leko...against Burton we saw it with Elliason. If LJ thinks we are stronger with out and out wingers, then imo, I think he's wrong. We are much more solid with a slightly narrower midfield and width coming from overlapping fullbacks. Perhaps it was purely down to injuries and illness today. Which might be a blessing in disguise and show LJ that with injuries we aren't as good a squad as he may think. I don't think Leeds looked particularly brilliant....we just made them look better. 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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