Robin101 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 So a disappointing result on Saturday, but not the end of the world. One thing I have noticed, however, is the negative soundbites coming from the staff/players. Before the game with Leeds, the BBC quoted LJ as saying something along the lines of: "We know that at some point we will take a punch on the nose, it's how we respond to that that matters" (paraphrased as article gone). Now, The Times quotes Marlon Pack post-game as saying: "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". I am just wondering how everyone feels about this? Is it expectation management aimed at fans to try and avoid pressure? Are they just being realistic? Or is there a danger that negative thinking breeds negative psychology and poor performances? It's almost as if the staff/players were going into each game thinking "well, we're gunna lose at some point so not to worry". Personally, I hope there was no talk in the dressing room pre-Leeds of "we will take a punch on the nose at some point". Twelve games unbeaten should lead to positive thinking, not negative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Robin101 said: So a disappointing result on Saturday, but not the end of the world. One thing I have noticed, however, is the negative soundbites coming from the staff/players. Before the game with Leeds, the BBC quoted LJ as saying something along the lines of: "We know that at some point we will take a punch on the nose, it's how we respond to that that matters" (paraphrased as article gone). Now, The Times quotes Marlon Pack post-game as saying: "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". I am just wondering how everyone feels about this? Is it expectation management aimed at fans to try and avoid pressure? Are they just being realistic? Or is there a danger that negative thinking breeds negative psychology and poor performances? It's almost as if the staff/players were going into each game thinking "well, we're gunna lose at some point so not to worry". Personally, I hope there was no talk in the dressing room pre-Leeds of "we will take a punch on the nose at some point". Twelve games unbeaten should lead to positive thinking, not negative! Wow, he really said that? That's pretty misguided if he has openly said that to reporters - would indeed show a poor mentality imho. But I'm sure there must be context there somewhere as well if he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin101 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, lenred said: Wow, he really said that? That's pretty misguided if he has openly said that to reporters - would indeed show a poor mentality imho. But I'm sure there must be context there somewhere as well if he did. The article is mainly about Leeds, but the final paragraph reads: "A first defeat since August was described as a reality check by Marlon Pack, the City midfielder, who said: 'We'd have been been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week.'". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Robin101 said: The article is mainly about Leeds, but the final paragraph reads: "A first defeat since August was described as a reality check by Marlon Pack, the City midfielder, who said: 'We'd have been been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week.'". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Robin101 said: The article is mainly about Leeds, but the final paragraph reads: "A first defeat since August was described as a reality check by Marlon Pack, the City midfielder, who said: 'We'd have been been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week.'". Not good then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think the LJ comment was fair and I think was in response to how we’d cope if we had a bit of a stutter, so needs a bit of context. Strange quote from Pack - suggest it’s probably a case of not wording it very well rather than having a ‘losing’ mentality. I imagine he was trying to make the point that we knew we’d have the occasional reality check and that we weren’t going to win every game etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, Robin101 said: The article is mainly about Leeds, but the final paragraph reads: "A first defeat since August was described as a reality check by Marlon Pack, the City midfielder, who said: 'We'd have been been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week.'". That still doesn't give the context. It may be one sentence from a five minute answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think." The Buddha. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut. "We tell ourselves stories in order to live....we live entirely... by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the 'ideas' which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience." Joan Didion. Marlon, if you are reading this: keep freezing the "shifting phantasmagoria" that is your "actual experience" as a Championship footballer this season, on the bits where you were performing, and shooting, like a top four player - ie, up until the last 2 games - and not on the bits where you were performing like the player that, deep down, you fear/know you probably/really are. Or, at the end of the day, just keep bloody kidding yourself. How does Marlon think Leicester managed to do what they did - or anyone does anything daunting or difficult or beyond what they think they really can do, in all honesty - a couple of years ago, or Roger Bannister break the 4 minute mile, or ......... without "kidding" themselves in some way? Work here for LJ's performance psychology team to get their teeth into..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think." The Buddha. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut. "We tell ourselves stories in order to live....we live entirely... by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the 'ideas' which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience." Joan Didion. Marlon, if you are reading this: keep freezing the "shifting phantasmagoria" that is your "actual experience" as a Championship footballer this season, on the bits where you were performing, and shooting, like a top four player - ie, up until the last 2 games - and not on the bits where you were performing like the player that, deep down, you fear/know you probably/really are. Or, at the end of the day, just keep bloody kidding yourself. How does Marlon think Leicester managed to do what they did - or anyone does anything daunting or difficult or beyond what they think they really can do, in all honesty - a couple of years ago, or Roger Bannister break the 4 minute mile, or ......... without "kidding" themselves in some way? Work here for LJ's performance psychology team to get their teeth into..... Yeah I think it’s interesting the quote... I’d need to read the whole thing and not take it from an isolated perspective. But If that is the case though then it is not a good sign and as you say the sports psych would need to try change the attitude and install some confidence in them. Self talk could be one route of doing that, could always use previous results from this season to highlight it. Many others as well shouldn’t be to much of an issue as surely Marlon didn’t mean it like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 I do think generally players are told what to say in terms of social media and interviews. Every tweet from players after the game says the fans were amazing and after a loss will say "we go again" which is a phrase surely no-one uses in general day to day talk, but for 10 footballers to suddenly use it? Thats why I like Maggs cos he says funny things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, grifty said: I do think generally players are told what to say in terms of social media and interviews. Every tweet from players after the game says the fans were amazing and after a loss will say "we go again" which is a phrase surely no-one uses in general day to day talk, but for 10 footballers to suddenly use it? Thats why I like Maggs cos he says funny things. Definitely guidelines with in what to say and not. My view of what Marlon meant is... 1: Chanpionship is a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone 2: Every team has one of those days where things don’t go to plan and thankfully that hasn’t happened much for us this season but against Leeds they turned up and we couldn’t get going. He just didn’t say it very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Tears in rain said: Definitely guidelines with in what to say and not. My view of what Marlon meant is... 1: Chanpionship is a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone 2: Every team has one of those days where things don’t go to plan and thankfully that hasn’t happened much for us this season but against Leeds they turned up and we couldn’t get going. He just didn’t say it very well If you look at his quote "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week" Marlons been with us for 3-4 years and in the general area most of his life. We didn't think we'd be doing this well every week either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, grifty said: If you look at his quote "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week" Marlons been with us for 3-4 years and in the general area most of his life. We didn't think we'd be doing this well every week either! Haha Valid point! If you read the post and watch his interview as well he says more or less that there’s a good mentality and they want to learn from defeat etc which is much more expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 The question before could of been. It was a poor performance for the team Marlon. Well, we’d be kidding ourselves if we thought we’d be brilliant every week. That sounds fine to me if that was the case. Press always take statements and spin them. Reading too much into it imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Funnily enough no one gave a Shit what Marlon Pack said prior to Saturday, it was all Gifs & top 2 finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 So he says: "We WOULD have been kidding ourselves IF we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". No problem with that because it's not the same as saying: "We HAVE been kidding ourselves" and "We thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". He's using the subjunctive mood. He's explaining that the result, although a reality check, wasn't because they'd got ahead of themselves. Clever lad is Marlon, although you wouldn't know it from Saturday's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Jeez........an entire thread about post match comments after a disappointing defeat from people who work for the club......... ...... It ain't rocket science - injuries and and the subsequent replacements didn't perform as well as expected and the game was lost. Get over it and bring on Paiace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, grifty said: I do think generally players are told what to say in terms of social media and interviews. Every tweet from players after the game says the fans were amazing and after a loss will say "we go again" which is a phrase surely no-one uses in general day to day talk, but for 10 footballers to suddenly use it? Thats why I like Maggs cos he says funny things. I think lots of them have use PR firms of some description (probably on the advise of their agents or maybe as part of the package) who write tweets on their behalf or tell them what to write. I find it really odd how players say they're "happy" to have scored a goal which seems like a 6/10 expression of joy. Tammy Abraham always used to tweet that and I used to think that surely as a young player he'd probably be "delighted" to have scored in men's football. Here's a funny example of those PR firm tweets not working out as planned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: So he says: "We WOULD have been kidding ourselves IF we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". No problem with that because it's not the same as saying: "We HAVE been kidding ourselves" and "We thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". He's using the subjunctive mood. He's explaining that the result, although a reality check, wasn't because they'd got ahead of themselves. Clever lad is Marlon, although you wouldn't know it from Saturday's performance. "the subjunctive mood?" Wtf?? Where's @Londoner when you need him/her? Does this have any bearing on, or too, or anything to tell us about, Marlon's "shifting phantasmagorial" experiences in the Championship this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 I like Cott's " I 'm a winner " comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I like Cott's " I 'm a winner " comment. I never doubted it. Not with 29 wins, 99 points, 96 goals; nor, er, with 4 wins in 26 games, and -25 goal difference. Bless him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Pack's comment was clearly after hearing that he would be starting as Smith was still injured. (BADDDDUMMMM, CHHHH) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Robin101 said: So a disappointing result on Saturday, but not the end of the world. One thing I have noticed, however, is the negative soundbites coming from the staff/players. Before the game with Leeds, the BBC quoted LJ as saying something along the lines of: "We know that at some point we will take a punch on the nose, it's how we respond to that that matters" (paraphrased as article gone). Now, The Times quotes Marlon Pack post-game as saying: "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". I am just wondering how everyone feels about this? Is it expectation management aimed at fans to try and avoid pressure? Are they just being realistic? Or is there a danger that negative thinking breeds negative psychology and poor performances? It's almost as if the staff/players were going into each game thinking "well, we're gunna lose at some point so not to worry". Personally, I hope there was no talk in the dressing room pre-Leeds of "we will take a punch on the nose at some point". Twelve games unbeaten should lead to positive thinking, not negative! "We haven't had a punch in the nose yet" LJ on Thurs. We have now, literally, and metaphorically. I think this was a self-fulfilling prophecy, of sorts; he knew we'd have a stinker at some point, he just wanted to get the inevitable out of the way, er, in front of a 24k crowd! What we want LJ to say now is: "we haven't had a league cup quarter final for decades....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Robin101 said: So a disappointing result on Saturday, but not the end of the world. One thing I have noticed, however, is the negative soundbites coming from the staff/players. Before the game with Leeds, the BBC quoted LJ as saying something along the lines of: "We know that at some point we will take a punch on the nose, it's how we respond to that that matters" (paraphrased as article gone). Now, The Times quotes Marlon Pack post-game as saying: "We've been kidding ourselves if we thought we could keep performing brilliantly every week". I am just wondering how everyone feels about this? Is it expectation management aimed at fans to try and avoid pressure? Are they just being realistic? Or is there a danger that negative thinking breeds negative psychology and poor performances? It's almost as if the staff/players were going into each game thinking "well, we're gunna lose at some point so not to worry". Personally, I hope there was no talk in the dressing room pre-Leeds of "we will take a punch on the nose at some point". Twelve games unbeaten should lead to positive thinking, not negative! Players should not brood about defeats e.g. dwell on the negatives because that really is negative psychology. Defeats are the past, an uncontrollable that while being addressed should be moved away from. The focus of defeat can create a mindset in individuals known as the threat state - players lacking confidence, fearful of taking risks, lacking energy .. This is the psychological becoming physical. Its opposite is the challenge state. City's players have demonstrated that this season via upbeat performance. So yes negative psychology is negative thinking and does feed poor performance. Lee Johnson? Negative? No idea, but It is important how Lee Johnson himself responds to a defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Marlon Pack was just giving a realistic answer to an unrealistic expectation that we were going to maintain our level of performance throughout a 46 game season. Doesn't mean necisssarily that effort levels won't be the same. I'm the most optimistic fan of them all and even i knew we couldn't maintain the levels we were playing at. We're gunna have slip ups and we are gunna come across teams that on the day, will be better than us. Unfair to criticise Pack based off that quote in my opionion. Probably answersed it like a lot of us would of answered it on the spot. Up the City x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Must admit that I take little notice of what players and managers say, and certainly don't analyse it too deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 38 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Players should not brood about defeats e.g. dwell on the negatives because that really is negative psychology. Defeats are the past, an uncontrollable that while being addressed should be moved away from. The focus of defeat can create a mindset in individuals known as the threat state - players lacking confidence, fearful of taking risks, lacking energy .. This is the psychological becoming physical. Its opposite is the challenge state. City's players have demonstrated that this season via upbeat performance. So yes negative psychology is negative thinking and does feed poor performance. Lee Johnson? Negative? No idea, but It is important how Lee Johnson himself responds to a defeat. Positives , We restricted them to three goals . Only had one player sent off . Lots of passing supporters won't be bothering the club in the near future. No City player has a knobbish man bun . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: I think lots of them have use PR firms of some description (probably on the advise of their agents or maybe as part of the package) who write tweets on their behalf or tell them what to write. I find it really odd how players say they're "happy" to have scored a goal which seems like a 6/10 expression of joy. Tammy Abraham always used to tweet that and I used to think that surely as a young player he'd probably be "delighted" to have scored in men's football. Here's a funny example of those PR firm tweets not working out as planned Also enjoyed a PR guy mixing up two of his clients recently - resulting in John Stones congratulating Alvaro Morata on his goalscoring. www.joe.co.uk/amp/sport/john-stones-and-gary-cahill-involved-in-strange-social-media-mix-up-142843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Funny how stuff like "I believe in this squad" and "cup tie is a chance to show what we are made of" get skipped over when these threads are made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Vincent Vega said: Funnily enough no one gave a Shit what Marlon Pack said prior to Saturday, it was all Gifs & top 2 finishes. Lose on Saturday and it'll be relegation and sack everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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