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VAR - Ashton Gate 'Not Ready'


Cardy

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I see on Sky Sports that they have just said that VAR won't be used in our match with Man City because Ashton Gate doesn't have the technology in place to be ready to use it. So I was wondering what exactly a club / stadium needs to implement VAR other than a few extra TV cameras (check), some big screens (check) and a few phone lines (check).

Does anyone therefore know why Ashton Gate has been deemed as not ready at his stage?

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3 minutes ago, Cardy said:

I see on Sky Sports that they have just said that VAR won't be used in our match with Man City because Ashton Gate doesn't have the technology in place to be ready to use it. So I was wondering what exactly a club / stadium needs to implement VAR other than a few extra TV cameras (check), some big screens (check) and a few phone lines (check).

Does anyone therefore know why Ashton Gate has been deemed as not ready at his stage?

Rather a lot of  extra cameras, which all PL grounds have because of VAR.

I don't believe any club outside of the PL have them in place yet according to R5L.

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1 minute ago, ScottishRed said:

Rather a lot of  extra cameras, which all PL grounds have because of VAR.

I don't believe any club outside of the PL have them in place yet according to R5L.

I’d imagine you’d need at least two or three different camera angles providing closeups of every area of the pitch. That would probably total between twelve to eighteen cameras to cover the whole pitch. Then you have to have the infrastructure for each of those cameras to provide instant replays both to a booth where the VAR sits and to a screen for the ref to check should be wish.

Total guesswork, but I’d imagine for a televised game we’d have between 6-10 cameras used? Most of those brought in especially by Sky for the fixture?

VAR is likely to be a lot more complex than it would seem to set up.

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2 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I’d imagine you’d need at least two or three different camera angles providing closeups of every area of the pitch. That would probably total between twelve to eighteen cameras to cover the whole pitch. Then you have to have the infrastructure for each of those cameras to provide instant replays both to a booth where the VAR sits and to a screen for the ref to check should be wish.

Total guesswork, but I’d imagine for a televised game we’d have between 6-10 cameras used? Most of those brought in especially by Sky for the fixture?

VAR is likely to be a lot more complex than it would seem to set up.

Didn't AG have cameras in place for the VAR when Bristol were in the Rugby Premiership, last season, and probably be needed again next season? Or do you think that  that system is not good enough for the football VAR?

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Premier League grounds all get hardwired with cabling and other bits and bobs at the start of their second season.

That might involve adding extra camera positions too so I guess it’s all part of the big picture.

But secretly Pep knows they’re not going to beat us fairly so he’s had to bribe the EFL to make up an excuse to ban VAR.

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5 minutes ago, Red Tel said:

Didn't AG have cameras in place for the VAR when Bristol were in the Rugby Premiership, last season, and probably be needed again next season? Or do you think that  that system is not good enough for the football VAR?

Good point. Didn’t consider that. @Northern Red has probably hit the nail on the head above when he says there’s needs to be direct links to a VAR based in Premier League HQ.

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12 hours ago, Red Tel said:

Didn't AG have cameras in place for the VAR when Bristol were in the Rugby Premiership, last season, and probably be needed again next season? Or do you think that  that system is not good enough for the football VAR?

Different set up.  In Rugby the VAR is on site.   God knows why the VAR is hidden in EPL headquarters.  It strikes me that a lot of people in power within football don't actually want this to work.  For the life of me I don't see why they don't just stick the replays on the screens like in Rugby so everyone can see it.  One thing I thought was good last night was when he looked at a potential penalty.  The players were ready to get on with the game  as soon as the review was done. Little things like this really help get over the issue of delays. 

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10 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Different set up.  In Rugby the VAR is on site.   God knows why the VAR is hidden in EPL headquarters.  It strikes me that a lot of people in power within football don't actually want this to work.  For the life of me I don't see why they don't just stick the replays on the screens like in Rugby so everyone can see it.  One thing I thought was good last night was when he looked at a potential penalty.  The players were ready to get on with the game  as soon as the review was done. Little things like this really help get over the issue of delays. 

One thing about last night has made me curious. If the ref had given the penalty, do you think it would have stood? Not sure either angle showed enough to make it a clear and obvious error. 

Is it a similar situation to the NFL in which there has to be irrefutable evidence to overturn a decision on-field?

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I think with some of the egos in the PL it will be like opening a can of worms if they don’t get their way. A la Conte last night they should be told that that var is the referee's perogative and not theirs! A few bookings for diving might sort that out?

 

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I can see this getting out of control, they review once play has stopped. If there’s a penalty decision which gets waved away and the ball remains in play for 5-10 mins (not impossible for that to happen) then when they review it it was a pen and play is taken back to that point what happens to the 5-10 mins that was played? Does it get added on? 

 

We could easily see games finishing at 17:30 some weeks 

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6 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

I can see this getting out of control, they review once play has stopped. If there’s a penalty decision which gets waved away and the ball remains in play for 5-10 mins (not impossible for that to happen) then when they review it it was a pen and play is taken back to that point what happens to the 5-10 mins that was played? Does it get added on? 

 

We could easily see games finishing at 17:30 some weeks 

I think play needs to be stopped immediately. If it proves to not be a foul then the other team gets a free kick in the position the play was stopped. Simple.

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8 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

I can see this getting out of control, they review once play has stopped. If there’s a penalty decision which gets waved away and the ball remains in play for 5-10 mins (not impossible for that to happen) then when they review it it was a pen and play is taken back to that point what happens to the 5-10 mins that was played? Does it get added on? 

 

We could easily see games finishing at 17:30 some weeks 

It's a bit of a farce doing it like that, what if either team goes on to score in that time which will happen eventually and it then gets called back for a penalty? 

What happens if a player who should have been sent off scores? Or commits another foul?

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1 minute ago, Up The City! said:

I think play needs to be stopped immediately. If it proves to not be a foul then the other team gets a free kick in the position the play was stopped. Simple.

Last night they reviewed the decision when play went out for a corner.

 

I understand if it’s not then play just restarts where it stopped. 

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2 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

Last night they reviewed the decision when play went out for a corner.

 

I understand if it’s not then play just restarts where it stopped. 

Also what happens if they scored before that corner? They would then get an immediate chance to double the score?

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I can't understand how you can have VAR and its associated stoppages without simultaneously implementing the "Stop the clock" method that Rugby uses. 

Football is already awful at timing each match. Generally the ball is only in play for 60-65 minutes of the 90 and injury time is the biggest load of guesswork there is.  Just stop the clock each time the ball goes dead or the ref blows his whistle, then start it again.

So simple and surely necessary if they are going to introduce further unknown dead periods into a match.

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1 minute ago, Up The City! said:

Also what happens if they scored before that corner? They would then get an immediate chance to double the score?

I believe if play stops because of a goal and it should have been a penalty at the other end they take the play back to the penalty meaning anything that happened in that time isn’t counted for including the goal. That’s my understanding of how it works.

 

It seems very harsh if you have a penalty shout that gets reviewed but your team still has the ball in the box and the game restarts with the opposition kicking it back to your goalie 

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This will take some time to get right. Anyone expecting it to be perfect is being ridiculous.  The experience in Rugby is that it took a lot of time to get to a sensible solution. They had it for a Bristol game earlier this season refereed by a novice to VAR and he faffed about continuously as he was lacking the confidence to deal with it correctly.  Compare this to someone like Wayne Barnes who knows what he wants from VAR and so the whole process is quicker.  They have also sussed out that being able to hear the referee and the VAR talking during the game adds to the spectacle.  Referees are sometimes prompted to check things and sometimes they prompt the VAR to get something ready to check.  With this blocked off from TV coverage no one knows what is going on which will make it harder to succeed in the long run.

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8 minutes ago, RedKatieScarlett said:

On the BBC site there is mention of VAR being used in matches with Norwich ( not us) and Fleetwood ( v Leicester I think). How are those grounds set up for it when we’re not??

or have I misread the article?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42648522

The Norwich and Fleetwood matches are replays away at PL clubs.

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9 minutes ago, RedKatieScarlett said:

On the BBC site there is mention of VAR being used in matches with Norwich ( not us) and Fleetwood ( v Leicester I think). How are those grounds set up for it when we’re not??

or have I misread the article?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42648522

PL HQ link... Leicester play in the BPL, Norwich played in the BPL

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2 hours ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

 

I believe if play stops because of a goal and it should have been a penalty at the other end they take the play back to the penalty meaning anything that happened in that time isn’t counted for including the goal. That’s my understanding of how it works.

 

It seems very harsh if you have a penalty shout that gets reviewed but your team still has the ball in the box and the game restarts with the opposition kicking it back to your goalie 

Both sides of the coin seem harsh.

I'd be in favour of a manager having x amount of challanges, I think in the nfl if you use a challange and it doesn't go in your favour then you lose another challange. Something like that I'd go for. Maybe if you use a challenge then it's a free kick to the other team?

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In the rugby World Cup people were complaining that the VAR has made all the refs ultra cautious and reluctant to make any decisions themselves. They referred any little thing and seemingly clear trys to the VAR ‘just to be on the safe side’. It was definitely slowing the game down and annoying the egg chasing fans. 

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On 1/10/2018 at 22:15, Septic Peg said:

@Matt Parsons BCFCSLO is on the case and is letting us know the requirements for VAR installation in due course.

Hi all, 

Apologies in taking sometime to get back to you on this, but had to track down the right people to ask.

Ashton Gate is ready and good to go for VAR and the infrastructure is all in place. However the the football league have not issued the required technology hardware, like the Premier League have for their clubs. 

AS the BBC report said, VAR can only be used at Premier League stadiums where there is a direct link back to the Premier League studios west of London - where the VAR has access to between 12 and 15 camera angles, including four cameras in each goal.

The below links provide further reading around VAR

http://www.theifab.com/projects/video-assistant-referees-vars-experiment?tab=1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42604127

 

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How many people will be in the PL studios / how many screens will they have? What happens if something that needs a decision occurs simultaneously at several games -will there be a queuing system for decisions to be made?!!

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10 minutes ago, Barkhamred said:

How many people will be in the PL studios / how many screens will they have? What happens if something that needs a decision occurs simultaneously at several games -will there be a queuing system for decisions to be made?!!

You don’t expect them to have thought this through at any level of detail do you?

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