Atmosphere in the league

[Bristol Rob]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

No chance in a Lansdown Rob 

Too near corporate seating

The other corner in SS would be good - get the sound going across SS

Would that not be too close to the Heineken Lounge?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Would that not be too close to the Heineken Lounge?

Yes , true 

A (and B? ) in Dolman then ?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Yes , true 

A (and B? ) in Dolman then ?

 

That would be great, I think that’s the most natural place for it to go if elsewhere.

[Hartcliffe red]

Used to be rocking at back of block b about 20 yesrs.good times up there

[Bristol Rob]

5 minutes ago, Hartcliffe red said:

Used to be rocking at back of block b about 20 yesrs.good times up there

Maybe there could be a compromise in that area and they could take a relaxed approach to standing towards the back of block A which wouldn't then spoil the view of people who have been there for years.

Could also say 'no flags' just 'noise to further reduce any objections and if it proves popular in the longer term introduce flags then.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Depends how far back up the stand you go.

People stand on the back row already in most parts of the ground. I am sure something creative could be worked out- nominate some people at the back to start chants in the style of the call and response 'C' 'I' 'T' 'Y' then everyone "City" *clap clap clap*  "City" *Clap Clap Clap" repeat/change chant as appropriate.

In A and B and possibly upper E28, maybe this could be a temporary solution. It's not a great one but it fits with modern restrictions and short term ideas I think.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@Cowshed

While a lot of what you say I undoubtedly agree with- I say this as someone who used to be firmly in the WTTJ camp with perhaps relatively simple answers, but yeah major changes have played a major part. (FWIW, the Taylor Report was of the opinion that fans should not be priced out but it did insist on all seaters).

Quote

 

After the wreckage of Hillsborough, the Football Supporters' Association argued against all-seat stadiums, principally because it believed clubs would use them as a platform to raise ticket prices. When addressing and rejecting that argument, Taylor famously wrote in his report: "Clubs may well wish to charge somewhat more for seats than for standing but it should be possible to plan a price structure which suits the cheapest seats to the pockets of those presently paying to stand."

The judge cited a price of £6 for seating at Ibrox Park, quaint compared to the prices now at the grounds, rebuilt according to Taylor's recommendations and which formed the foundation for football's revival. "I do not think Taylor saw the commercial revolution around the corner, beginning with the increase of television money," Rogan Taylor, chair of the FSA then, now director of Liverpool University's football industries group, says.

 

It's an old article but Taylor seemed to be of the view that a structure of all seater shouldn't price out great swathes.

I also have a question for those who talk up and laud the atmosphere of the 80's. Were attendances not much lower then? For a variety of reasons- hooliganism frightening off a fair few people or should I say a more insidious worse version than 70's, a recession at the start of the 80's, very old fashioned grounds, fences...certainly in our case we plummeted down the divisions, being a big knockback further to support.

With that in mind, could you get such an amazing atmosphere in pretty empty grounds in that context?

1989	11	3	55	8.121	38	3	SF	AMC
1988	5	3	49	9.818	30	2	1
1987	6	3	50	9.441	30	3	2	AMC	Final
1986	9	3	53	6.600	36	2	1	AMC	Winners
1985	5	3	49	8.507	32	2	2
1984	4	4	72	7.287	41	3	1
1983	14	4	82	4.799	56	1	2
1982	23	3	67	6.511	45	4	3
1981	21	2	43	9.765

These were our average attendances from 1980-89 post relegation. Can those types of fanbases generate a terrific atmosphere really? In a ground which held- well I'm not entirely sure, 28,000 with standing factored in at that point? Lot of rattling around in a ground that size. I'm interested to know really.

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Okay - slightly different question on a recurring theme.

Lots of comments regarding expanding S82 across the SS, but.... is that the answer?

Would there be more value in a second singing section (lower LS closer to the away fans) rather than making S82 larger?

Would two areas generate a better atmosphere than one larger one.

In my experience this just creates confusion. You see it at some away grounds like QPR and Brentford.  These grounds give away fans the length of one end - but it is only 15-20 seats deep.  It results in chants starting at both ends and they get confused.  Normally one takes over eventually but it dampens the effect. 

Compare that to Fulham or to Watford where we get given one or two blocks that are deep but not wide.  Here you tend to get a cohesive mass of singers (at the back) that can easily start and carry a single song, that song then spreads to those less inclined.

IMO S82 should be expanded. Anyone even slightly inclined to sing should consider changing their seat so that they gravitate towards S82's corner. 

Improvement and progress might be slow, but I'd see that as being the natural way to improve the atmosphere.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

How is it choreographed at Old Trafford?! 

In the first minute we sing song x, then we sing song y, eg glory glory Man Utd followed by John Denver. 

It does feel spontaneous. 

I can just imagine them completing their songs before celebrating a goal that went in 30 seconds ago. 

It just felt a bit weird. 

[Cowshed]

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Cowshed

While a lot of what you say I undoubtedly agree with- I say this as someone who used to be firmly in the WTTJ camp with perhaps relatively simple answers, but yeah major changes have played a major part. (FWIW, the Taylor Report was of the opinion that fans should not be priced out but it did insist on all seaters).

It's an old article but Taylor seemed to be of the view that a structure of all seater shouldn't price out great swathes.

I also have a question for those who talk up and laud the atmosphere of the 80's. Were attendances not much lower then? For a variety of reasons- hooliganism frightening off a fair few people or should I say a more insidious worse version than 70's, a recession at the start of the 80's, very old fashioned grounds, fences...certainly in our case we plummeted down the divisions, being a big knockback further to support.

With that in mind, could you get such an amazing atmosphere in pretty empty grounds in that context?

1989	11	3	55	8.121	38	3	SF	AMC
1988	5	3	49	9.818	30	2	1
1987	6	3	50	9.441	30	3	2	AMC	Final
1986	9	3	53	6.600	36	2	1	AMC	Winners
1985	5	3	49	8.507	32	2	2
1984	4	4	72	7.287	41	3	1
1983	14	4	82	4.799	56	1	2
1982	23	3	67	6.511	45	4	3
1981	21	2	43	9.765

These were our average attendances from 1980-89 post relegation. Can those types of fanbases generate a terrific atmosphere really? In a ground which held- well I'm not entirely sure, 28,000 with standing factored in at that point? Lot of rattling around in a ground that size. I'm interested to know really.

Can those types of fan bases generate a terrific atmosphere really? Yes because the mind set was entirely different because the fan base itself was entirely different.

It is hard to compare Chester in the 80's at home v now unless you understand how football has changed. Away games could see 90% of support being lads - blokes - 18 - 35 being the driver of vocal support. This is no longer the case home and away.

Crowds (small and large) were full of people who were anarchic, loud, weird, beery ... Rules for these fans? Well not ones people followed if they did not want to. 

Was it amazing each week? No. But these smaller crowds did create atmosphere that were brilliant, awe inspiring, exciting, truly  exhilarating ... And there was the dark, brooding and evil. Both the good and could become physical and psychologically altering. Walking into a  70 - 80's football crowd / ground was an frequently an assault on the senses.

The adjectives I use above for football then to now are different. We now have cosy, comfortable, conservative and restrained.

70 - 80's football is now third person. That was us, a person we know we will and football will never be again. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

35 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Can those types of fan bases generate a terrific atmosphere really? Yes because the mind set was entirely different because the fan base itself was entirely different.

It is hard to compare Chester in the 80's at home v now unless you understand how football has changed. Away games could see 90% of support being lads - blokes - 18 - 35 being the driver of vocal support. This is no longer the case home and away.

Crowds (small and large) were full of people who were anarchic, loud, weird, beery ... Rules for these fans? Well not ones people followed if they did not want to. 

Was it amazing each week? No. But these smaller crowds did create atmosphere that were brilliant, awe inspiring, exciting, truly  exhilarating ... And there was the dark, brooding and evil. Both the good and could become physical and psychologically altering. Walking into a  70 - 80's football crowd / ground was an frequently an assault on the senses.

The adjectives I use above for football then to now are different. We now have cosy, comfortable, conservative and restrained.

70 - 80's football is now third person. That was us, a person we know we will and football will never be again. 

This is interesting stuff for sure.

I can imagine it yes, at times everyone bang up for it- on a smaller scale I sometimes compare late 90's early 2000's- with less fans generally to now, more favourably compared to a variety of big attendances now. Not all of course, Man Utd at home was great but for more routine games perhaps. Anger at refs bad decisions and getting the crowd going seems less prevalent now than 10-15 years ago to me, noticing everyone even in line with a corner sat down as v Wolves- that did surprise me, at a 'moment of excitement' in a  crucial game and not quite what I recalled from past memories.

Definitely see a lot of truth in what you say about the gentrification, increasingly passive nature of a lot of fans. I have seen old football from 70's on TV (not just City, in fact not many of our games on there) and it looks rather decent in a variety of respects I must say!

Undoubtedly, rising prices, all seater and criminal laws have played a part. I can imagine the atmosphere could be terrific but also I dare say there were mundane games too, mundane games and mundane atmospheres? It was much more accessible however! Good and bad, definitely has a feeling of exhilaration, a slight edge to the atmosphere always helps it I feel.

Agreed. I would add to that, significantly more aging fanbases- not just at AG but across the board in the UK. Which feeds into and is illustrated by your post above.

Yeah, too much has changed for that era to come back. I must stress I never lived through it myself but it looked like it had positives...atmosphere, more affordable tickets, more youth and indeed significantly bigger away allocations. 

[Trouty84]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

In my experience this just creates confusion. You see it at some away grounds like QPR and Brentford.  These grounds give away fans the length of one end - but it is only 15-20 seats deep.  It results in chants starting at both ends and they get confused.  Normally one takes over eventually but it dampens the effect. 

 

I have to agree with this. Get us all in together. 

I can see where people are coming from with smaller separate groups, but I don’t think it’ll work. It may work in some games we’re all the ingredients are there for a big atmosphere (Man Utd), and all you need is a small spark to get a stand going. But in a run of the mill league game, a small group would be up against it.

With everyone in together, (1500+) if it catches great, if on a particular day it isn’t (like Norwich) then that’s still a number that can make good noise itself. 

 

 

 

 

[Ohbasso]

Section82 definitely needs expanding as it sold out quickly and the club always have to deploy stewards on the entrances to stop people with tickets for other areas sneaking in.

The club has made it difficult now as really the whole of the South Stand should’ve been made the singing area from day one of the stadium being finished so now wherever you expand it your going to piss off existing season ticket holders. Expanding along the back of the South Stand one block at a time would be my choice.

The club said there was scope to expand the singing area though so I wonder what they had planned?

[Welcome To The Jungle]

5 minutes ago, Ohbasso said:

Section82 definitely needs expanding as it sold out quickly and the club always have to deploy stewards on the entrances to stop people with tickets for other areas sneaking in.

The club has made it difficult now as really the whole of the South Stand should’ve been made the singing area from day one of the stadium being finished so now wherever you expand it your going to piss off existing season ticket holders. Expanding along the back of the South Stand one block at a time would be my choice.

The club said there was scope to expand the singing area though so I wonder what they had planned?

I know he has lots on but I'm sure @Matt Parsons BCFCSLO will be passing on our thoughts and will be polling as to potential take up from expanding the section.

[SARJ]

On 1/13/2018 at 19:51, RedNight said:

Has been absolutely shocking all year. 

Fans will get defensive about this. But I don't care. Before today we 4th in the league with a potential to go joint second. On top of this, this game came off the back of one of the best games anyone of us has seen a City side produce in a number of years Vs Man City - and we produce that in the stands today.

Dont get me started on the minority that booed at FT.

Man United at home followed by Man City away in a cup. 2 huge fixtures that had everyone at fever pitch. Playing Norwich at home after all that is, rightly or wrongly, a buzz kill, for the players AND fans.

Can't expect the atmosphere we had against United every week, simple.

[RedNight]

1 hour ago, SARJ said:

Man United at home followed by Man City away in a cup. 2 huge fixtures that had everyone at fever pitch. Playing Norwich at home after all that is, rightly or wrongly, a buzz kill, for the players AND fans.

Can't expect the atmosphere we had against United every week, simple.

No hiding away from it being shocking. 4th in the league - no excuses. 

[Footmans Ball Bag]

 home atmosphere is a problem for all English clubs for lots of the reasons people have mentioned . There’s no easy solutions but the gate can be loud as **** when the mood takes us. Defo a bigger singer section would help as s82 is the engine room and the more power in that engine the better. I’ve been a few times this season and for the bigger games we do bring it. We do have some decent songs, and avoid sone of the more formulaic chants that other teams rely on , anything with cider in is good (both drink and song wise).. Thatchers gold etc  Aden Flint party song lends itself to long and loud. And there should always, always  be room for songs about our bitter rivals however sh1t they are. My fav was tattered and torn, but not heard it for ages..... 

We have some huge games comin up and if the club can extend s82, which is hard to get tickets for at the mo, we will be able to do something. It will take a bit of planning as palace had to create their ultra bit. And they are about the only club with regular home noise now. No ****in clappers mind.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, SARJ said:

Man United at home followed by Man City away in a cup. 2 huge fixtures that had everyone at fever pitch. Playing Norwich at home after all that is, rightly or wrongly, a buzz kill, for the players AND fans.

Can't expect the atmosphere we had against United every week, simple.

I agree in a way. Would also add to those 2 Manchester games, between that was major promotion clash v Wolves with a real chance to pressure them big.

In that context, we were spoilt a bit and a game v midtable Norwich? Fairly unexciting to many.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I agree in a way. Would also add to those 2 Manchester games, between that was major promotion clash v Wolves with a real chance to pressure them big.

In that context, we were spoilt a bit and a game v midtable Norwich? Fairly unexciting to many.

Agree 

But somebody posted what I thought was a brilliant post a while back (Wish I could find it to credit them)

Where he said normally he expects/ waits for the players to do something to get him going vocally , but rightly pointed out this team already has on numerous occasions this season and done their bit , and it was up to us to take the lead now

Can’t really argue with that !!!!

[Lew-T]

I honestly don’t think expanding S82 or any other standing area will necessarily help. I watched Leeds v Forest a couple weeks back, both ends of the stands were Leeds fans, all stood up and the atmosphere was poor, very poor. 

I think it’s just the way society is now, football has changed. Some lads would much rather use their phones, looking at accumulators, snapchats or just have their arms folded chatting to their mates.

From what I gather, football in the 70s and 80s was much more than a game or entertainment as it is today. It seemed like a culture, pride of where you came from, tradition of giving your all you had to support your City and team. Much more passionate, working class. 

Reputation being a big factor, which of course included violence. We don’t have that now. 

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

I honestly don’t think expanding S82 or any other standing area will necessarily help. I watched Leeds v Forest a couple weeks back, both ends of the stands were Leeds fans, all stood up and the atmosphere was poor, very poor. 

I think it’s just the way society is now, football has changed. Some lads would much rather use their phones, looking at accumulators, snapchats or just have their arms folded chatting to their mates.

From what I gather, football in the 70s and 80s was much more than a game or entertainment as it is today. It seemed like a culture, pride of where you came from, tradition of giving your all you had to support your City and team. Much more passionate, working class. 

Reputation being a big factor, which of course included violence. We don’t have that now. 

Condensed version: we may as well give up on trying to make an atmosphere because society has changed from the 70s.