Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I do not get this ‘cup run took it out of us’ stuff - Wigan have beaten three premier league teams in the FA Cup this season, and they had a couple of replays to cope with in the FA Cup too - but they have managed to keep fine form up in League One and are currently one point from automatic promotion with three games in hand on the leaders. Their cup heroics, including the amazing result against the best team in the country last night, doesn’t seem to have hampered their league form too much... Have they had to play the majority of their games with the bare eleven featuring so regularly? We were a bit threadbare and, still are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Cup run Extra games Injuries to many players long term Small squad compared to some Young squad still learning, as is the manager. Some players playing out of natural position. Players banned for some time. Players losing form. Integrating new signings, some not up to speed with how we play yet. Playing many games this season out of cinc with others. TV etc. Unbelievable that we are still 6th tbh, especially as so many bigger clubs have been in this league for much longer than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 The last 3 games in particular point to mental resilience not being so strong. In the run up to Christmas we weren't always at our best but a combination of team spirit and bloody mindedness was tremendous and got us through a few games - Hull and Sheff Utd typifying this. . At the time we were suffering with injuries and playing lots of games, but I think the carrot of the Man Utd game gave the players a target and helped pull them through. I've said before that the Wolves game was a catalyst for much of what has happened since. We played well for a lot of the game but losing in the last minute was a sickener and I think knocked the stuffing out the players and suddenly the pressure and tiredness, which had not been a problem in the run up to Man Utd started to ve a factor in the players' minds. I think the mental impact has perhaps been greater than we realised as we conceded last minute gaols in both legs of Man City ( players lifted themselves fort both f these because of the occasion and the possibility of a major final) but we've seen our old failings return conceding a latish goal to lose at Bolton and then capitulation against Sunderland and Leeds so reminiscant of last seasons regular "clutching defeat from the jaws of victory" games. Michael McIndoe posted a while back that when they are winning, players don't notice injuries and work hard in training and just want to get out and play, and I think that's where we were before Christmas. Since the Wolves game, closely followed by the trouncing at Villa, I suspect players are feeling things just a bit more and are mentally jaded and with our style of play, I think it needs the whole team to be on it as one and as others have commented, perhaps the sharpness of our game has dropped making it easier for other teams to counter. We are not out of it just yet, but have lost all of out momentum while our rivals have been building momentum. LJ needs to restore the players physical and mental sharpness if we are to remain in contention. Baker's return will help restore some calm and order to the defence - don't think we would have given there last 2 games with him playing - and Fammy getting stronger will help up front. If we could get Pissano and O'Dowda back it would give the team a better balance but I think that's an optimistic ask at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said: A lack of available subs due to injury, and tiredness. I think LJ took a long time to change it at Leeds because he knew that we didn't have a suitable replacement for Fammy. We are really missing those injured players That's really worrying. It begs the question - Why!!? ... and whose fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 hours ago, JonDolman said: Teams sussing out how to deal with Reid and Pato up front, after it had been working. And more recently trying to play a high press for 90 minutes with diedhiou in the side. He gets knackered second half and then it doesn't work. When Reid is up top we can press for 90 because he is that fit. Simple thing to do is to go more defensive when we are leading. So simply it's tactics that have been the problem. I'd also say lack of respect for the lower teams in the league has cost us too. Jon - agree with your whole post, but especially the bit I’ve highlighted in bold. I think when Diedhiou is fully fit, we can press, but just remember his first half a dozen games for us, he got very tired. I see him build up that 90 minute stamina over the next 2/3 games. As it stands we have choices of subbing him on 60-70mins with: Diony - the natural choice if his somewhat ‘lacking’ performance v Sunderland was due to flu all week 9rumoyr was he was gonna start) Woodrow - despite me rating him, it just hasn’t worked out, and the energetic / pest performances I saw at Burton and Fulham seem to have disappeared Engvall - if we want energy, then perhaps he is the go to man if there are concerns over Diony being in a ‘black hole’ mentally. going with a midfielder into a 451, or a Pato / Kent / Walsh in the no10 We have possibly missed Matty Taylor performing the pest role to get us over the line. Lacks quality imho, but he’ll run his proverbials off in the last 20-25 minutes if a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 hours ago, reddogkev said: I can't get my head around our continuing terrible form this year, which is in such stark contrast to 2017. Does it all go back to the Man Utd win and the Man City cup games? Wonder if psychologically these games took on such an importance, the league lost some of it's worth to the players / coaches, and now we are struggling to regain the momentum. Is this the reason? Or has the loss of O'Dowda hit us harder than we could ever imagine? When was Callum injured and when will he return? He was becoming a fantastic player before his injury. You saying we’ll win the play offs or whatever it was you were boasting about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Rich said: Have they had to play the majority of their games with the bare eleven featuring so regularly? We were a bit threadbare and, still are. Well, 24 different Bristol City players have started in our 32 league games this season, and only 17 different Wigan players have started in their 30 league games this season....and 24 different Bristol City players have started in our 8 cup games this season (EFL Cup & FA Cup) and only 19 different Wigan players have started in their 9 cup games in the same cup competitions...Wigan have also also played more games than us this season in all comps - so it looks like we’re not quite as threadbare as they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Well, 24 different Bristol City players have started in our 32 league games this season, and only 17 different Wigan players have started in their 30 league games this season....and 24 different Bristol City players have started in our 8 cup games this season (EFL Cup & FA Cup) and only 19 different Wigan players have started in their 9 cup games in the same cup competitions...Wigan have also also played more games than us this season in all comps - so it looks like we’re not quite as threadbare as they are... Which could quite easily prove that. 1. We've had a lot of injuries, apart from our main bare starters. We have. 2. We've made a lot of changes to our cup teams to include second string players. We have 3. Wigan have been very fortunate to have not suffered the injuries that we have. They would have had to. When we have players such as Garita, Lemon leigh Evans on the bench V MUFC, then we're threadbare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 The buck stops with LJ sort it, lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 We haven’t been the same since the wolves heartbreak. In the league anyway. i think a few thought promotion was guaranteed after the media love in as well. Need to knuckle down and get a bit of luck as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Rich said: We've made a lot of changes to our cup teams to include second string players... Well, beating four premier league teams in the league cup when we ‘made a lot of changes’ (as you say) suggests good strength in depth....we only played one FA Cup game so you can’t mean that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I do not get this ‘cup run took it out of us’ stuff - Wigan have beaten three premier league teams in the FA Cup this season, and they had a couple of replays to cope with in the FA Cup too - but they have managed to keep fine form up in League One and are currently one point from automatic promotion with three games in hand on the leaders. Their cup heroics, including the amazing result against the best team in the country last night, doesn’t seem to have hampered their league form too much... Lost last two league games!! Could be they are starting to run out of steam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Well, beating four premier league teams in the league cup when we ‘made a lot of changes’ (as you say) suggests good strength in depth....we only played one FA Cup game so you can’t mean that.... Or weaker premier opposition, which matched our weakened teams, We did do well, I agree. So F A Cup games don't count any more then? It was you that mentioned "(EFL Cup & FA Cup)", so I assumed you included it. Do you seriously believe we have sufficient strength in depth? O'Dowda, Hegeler and Djuric are the only players currently injured that contributed much to the first team, with O'Dowda the only real regular. Hegeler was deemed a luxury and was rarely on the starting team sheet and Djuric was suffering recurring injury problems so had cameo appearances. When all fit, we will have better strength in depth, agreed. Sorry, forgot Pissano, great player, sadly missed for the games he could have played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: Lost last two league games!! Could be they are starting to run out of steam Look at their games and form prior to that though, they include recent 0-7 (seven) and 0-4 away wins...three games in hand, one point from auto promotion....they are in a good place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rich said: Do you seriously believe we have sufficient strength in depth?... No, I was just making the point we have more strength in depth than Wigan who have played more league and cup games than us...we’ve started significantly more players than them in less league and cup games...yet their momentum hasn’t been affected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: No, I was just making the point we have more strength in depth than Wigan...we’ve started significantly more players than them in less league and cup games... Sorry, all it means is that, we've chosen to start more players than they have. They, (Wigan) might not have needed to, due to good luck with injuries, or, decided that the cup games were their bread and butter against winnable opposition, so they gave it their best shot. Whereas, we've decided to bring in fringe players who'd not normally feature in the first team, to give them experience, while still putting out reasonable teams. Note Baker was rested on a regular basis, due to carrying injuries, I think he has rarely played when being100% fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rich said: Sorry, all it means is that, we've chosen to start more players than they have. They, (Wigan) might not have needed to, due to good luck with injuries, or, decided that the cup games were their bread and butter against winnable opposition, so they gave it their best shot. Whereas, we've decided to bring in fringe players who'd not normally feature in the first team, to give them experience, while still putting out reasonable teams. Note Baker was rested on a regular basis, due to carrying injuries, I think he has rarely played when being100% fit. But your original reply to me said ‘have Wigan had to start the same eleven as much as us?’ - well, yes they have, many more times than us....as you say above ‘we’ve chosen to start more players than they have’....they haven’t had that choice, so we’ve got more strength in depth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 When we were 1-0 up against ten man Wolves and we were singing 'we're coming for you...', I genuinely believed that we could win the league. Something changed after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rich said: They, (Wigan)....might have....decided that the cup games were their bread and butter against winnable opposition, so they gave it their best shot.... I don’t think a league one side would think cup games against premier league teams, including Man City, are ‘bread and butter’ games against ‘winnable opposition(?)’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: But your original reply to me said ‘have Wigan had to start the same eleven as much as us?’ - well, yes they have, many more times than us....as you say above ‘we’ve chosen to start more players than they have’....they haven’t had that choice, so we’ve got more strength in depth... I said, "Have they had to play the majority of their games with the bare eleven featuring so regularly"? Wigan might well have chosen to rotate their 17 regulars during their 30 league games, whereas, we couldn't. I do refer to the "majority" of games, when we were down to the bare bones, not, all the games. In my opinion, Baker would not have started as many games, had we had sufficient cover at CB. We've played with four CBs as our defense for the majority of games, something I'm sure would not have happened, had we had sufficient strength in depth in those FB positions. If we'd have kept a fit first team squad, it would have featured, FF, EP, JB, AF, BW, NB, JBr, KS, MP, HM, JP, FD, BR, CO, MD, MT, JH, LS, and very little else. A nice balanced squad, of eighteen players, it would appear. Unfortunately, six out of that squad have been relatively long term injured, although they've all featured and one GK who's played a handful of games. We also had a veteran midfielder that was apparently surplus to requirements featuring until injured and, a string of rookies with little EFL experience. We've also had the normal injuries and illness to cater for, which keeps players out for the odd one or two games. How do you know, Wigan have not had the choice of selecting from a bigger pool of players, as you say, rather than, being fortunate enough, to not have to? This is the thing, we have had to select from a greater pool of players, out of necessity for the majority of our games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: I don’t think a league one side would think cup games against premier league teams, including Man City, are ‘bread and butter’ games against ‘winnable opposition(?)’ Easy selection for you, that one. Would you suggest they put their reserves out? I'll wager, they put their strongest teams out against the majority of their premier opponents, as this was their "bread and butter" in terms of earning some more money/glory, obviously I should have stated it as Jam, to go with their bread and butter. Wigan have 37 players in their first team squad, the fact they've only used 17 is either by choice or luck with injuries, I would suggest they have as many players to choose from as us. According to our site, we have 36 players in our first team squad, ten of whom are or were out on loan and 7 long term injured. 19 available players, not such great strength in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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