Johnson's Roy of the Rovers substitutions

[Major Isewater]

I am increasingly baffled by LJ's insistence that to throw on attackers as subs is a way to try to win matches.

It's basically nonsense as the team balance goes out the window especially if you substitute the one man who can put a decent ball into the box , Pack .

OK  , we need wins but get the team to be more positive don't just rely on hoofing the ball up to another forward and leaving the defence more exposed.

For all his , so called, wisdom it's naive at best .

 

[chinapig]

I'm all for being positive and tactically flexible but he does tend to be too gung ho I agree.

Still, if he didn't go for it he'd be criticised for that too I suppose. Bit of a no win situation for any manager.

Apparently with Wolves down to 9 men Pulis kept 3 midfielders deep and relied on long throws. Things could be worse. 

[BanburyRed]

I'm all for being bold and positive and for that LJ should be applauded but the somewhat bizarre substitutions yesterday and the change in formation didn't really make any desired impacts.

You can argue that Joe was more advanced for the cross that led to Josh's equaliser but it's not like he or Eros were making lung busting over lapping runs when we changed to 3-5-2.

Fammy should've come off and allowed Bobby to go up top with Milan, to buzz in and around and feed off any flick ons etc but that became all too easy for their defence which to their credit dealt with any City attacking threat quite comfortably, but we didn't threaten enough or with enough purpose or desire.

Too many bobbly passes and side foot looping passes that put the receiver in difficulty instead of the crisp one touch fizzing passes. We can't blame the pitch because Barnsley played well enough (oxymoron?!) to create a host of chances whereas we simply didn't.

Marlon looked increasingly frustrated in the game the longer it went (until subbed), due to lack of movement and options from both Bobby & Fammy, and Korey looked off the pace somewhat, no crunching tackles to set the tone for midfield battle. That said, their Luke Ayling lookalike in midfield was their best player until he went off and we didn't deal with him at all.

Whether it's a rigid 4-4-2 or a more flexible 3-5-2 or 4-3-3, we have to find a way (more consistently) to out think and outwit teams who want to stifle our pattern of play. Which Barnsley did with simple balls over the top to avoid midfield and their blatant and petty falling over at every opportunity.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I am increasingly baffled by LJ's insistence that to throw on attackers as subs is a way to try to win matches.

It's basically nonsense as the team balance goes out the window.

OK  , we need wins but get the team to be more positive don't just rely on hoofing the ball up to another forward and leaving the defence more exposed.

For all his , so called, wisdom it's naive at best .

 

He learnt that from playing most of his career under his dad.

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

This is a worry.

Before I could finish typing "throwing on an extra attacker is not always a positive move" we had gone 1-2 down !!

Worked out in the end (just) but not a fan of the more forwards on the pitch the more likely you are to score way of thinking.

One major difficulty LJ has is that he has no midfield creativity on the bench to bring on. Had GoN been fit then he'd would have been on the bench and almost certainly used.

[BS4 on Tour...]

39 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm all for being positive and tactically flexible but he does tend to be too gung ho I agree.

Still, if he didn't go for it he'd be criticised for that too I suppose. Bit of a no win situation for any manager.

Apparently with Wolves down to 9 men Pulis kept 3 midfielders deep and relied on long throws. Things could be worse. 

....like we did at Leeds...

[General Zod]

I appreciate its not popular to question LJ but I just don’t see that he’s learning or developing as a coach at anywhere near the speed i was expecting.  Strange substitution time and time again make me think we still don’t have a plan B when needed. I know the league position can be used to disprove this but week in week out I’m seeing below par performances performance and it’s like he’s run out of ideas and for the 2nd season running he has been unable to get the team playing again when in a bad run.  From what I can see there is absolutely no pressure on him from anywhere within the club especially  when it’s implied MA said promotion isn’t the aim this season. I think people need a degree of pressure to bring out their best.  I buy into the clubs philosophy, buying youngsters, behind self sufficient and want to support it fully but im questioning if LJ is ever going to be the coach we are told he will be and is their someone better to see this to conclusion  Feels strange writing this when we are just outside the playoffs and it could still be a great season so let’s see if performances improve in the run in.

[Tipps69]

And what’s the opinion if we’re 1-0 or 2-1 down with 10 minutes to go with Djuric & Diony on the bench, would you prefer him to carry on with the same formation & just swap Djuric & Diony for Reid & Diedhiou, leaving us playing the same formation / style as to what has got us 1-0 / 2-1 down?

With limited time left, surely by putting another striker on to join the ones already on the pitch means that he is changing things & trying to rescue the game? At a goal down with limited time left there is little to lose but by changing our formation & style of play it means the opposition have to change to hold on to their 3 points, which is probably what they’ve been doing for the last 10 minutes or so anyway.

LJ is damned if he does or damned if he doesn’t, if he did like for like substitutions people would moan that we needed to chase the game or at least change it, if he changes things to try & rescue things, he’s in the wrong again.

[Robbored]

Just now, Maggersno1Fan said:

What makes you think O’neIl who not played all sense would of turned the game 

GoN is a very experienced midfielder with previous promotions with other clubs under his belt. He's not been available for much of this season thru injury and imv has been sorely missed. 

[cidered abroad]

LJ is tactically naive. It smacks more of how a team of eight year olds would play in the park, than a well paid professional club at the top end of the Championship.

Where has all the inventive attacking game that we had before Christmas gone? We have now become so predictable.Why when we're chasing the game does he keep pulling Reid, our highest goal scorer, back into midfield?

We are so dependent on four players to score. Tammy, Bobby, Flint and Bryan. Our midfield is a barren area. We never see them with late runs into the box that catch defenders unaware. Brownhill chips in occasionally but what do the rest contribute to attacks - all too predictable.

What a waste of another season where some of us dared to dream.

[cidered abroad]

6 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I appreciate its not popular to question LJ but I just don’t see that he’s learning or developing as a coach at anywhere near the speed i was expecting.  Strange substitution time and time again make me think we still don’t have a plan B when needed. I know the league position can be used to disprove this but week in week out I’m seeing below par performances performance and it’s like he’s run out of ideas and for the 2nd season running he has been unable to get the team playing again when in a bad run.  From what I can see there is absolutely no pressure on him from anywhere within the club especially  when it’s implied MA said promotion isn’t the aim this season. I think people need a degree of pressure to bring out their best.  I buy into the clubs philosophy, buying youngsters, behind self sufficient and want to support it fully but im questioning if LJ is ever going to be the coach we are told he will be and is their someone better to see this to conclusion  Feels strange writing this when we are just outside the playoffs and it could still be a great season so let’s see if performances improve in the run in.

I'm in total agreement with you.

[phantom]

I do agree but yesterday he got it right, Reid was infective and Pack / Smith were too similar. It made sense to go with height and a presence up front as we weren't competing up to then. Shame Kent is useless at putting any kind of quality into the box as he was the right choice to be the supply for the front two 

[Fordy62]

40 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He learnt that from playing most of his career under his dad.

You really are an idiot sometimes, aren’t you?

[Wrongagain]

46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He learnt that from playing most of his career under his dad.

Was his dad an ineffective midfielder too?

[BigAl&Toby]

7 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Like father like Son. Roy of the Rovers duo

You aren’t a fan of his are you? 

[General Zod]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

I do agree but yesterday he got it right, Reid was infective and Pack / Smith were too similar. It made sense to go with height and a presence up front as we weren't competing up to then. Shame Kent is useless at putting any kind of quality into the box as he was the right choice to be the supply for the front two 

Kent shouldn’t get near the bench, a let down every time he gets on the ball.  I know we probably feel obligated to play him given the terms of the loan but it’s a shame as he contributes little and he’s no doubt taking up Eliasson’s spot and impacting a player we actually own development.  Kent is certainly a player who needs to take a good look at himself.  Absence has certainly shown O’Dowda’s value to the team.

[BigAl&Toby]

9 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

You really are an idiot sometimes, aren’t you?

Sometimes? Most of the time.

I see the others are at it too.

Its raining here but I’ve had enough already. I’m up Muriel Jones shortly to get me seed potatoes in. 

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

One major difficulty LJ has is that he has no midfield creativity on the bench to bring on. Had GoN been fit then he'd would have been on the bench and almost certainly used.

I thought Walsh was being raved about when we signed him? One or two cameos then consigned to the bench like the majority of LJ's signings. It really is incredible how many we have signed that are adding nothing to the first team.

If it wasn't for the L1 stalwarts who are the heart of this team we would be in dire straits.

[Olé]

The substitutions made very little sense to anyone, the only thing I could think is LJ felt the team was becoming far too reliant on Pack being the only one willing or able to try and open up Barnsley, and wanted to force the rest of them to take some responsibility and play.

But even then it was still bizarre. Compare our midfield to theirs - we made Moncur look like he owned central midfield, he had a very easy time picking out their forward players runs, but for us Pack would have to drop to within yards of Wright and Baker to get on the ball, from which position he sees Korey overrun in central midfield and his only option is a long ball upfield, in the hope Reid, Famara or Paterson could make runs off them.

It didn't work much, the quality of chances we were creating (if at all) was significantly worse than Barnsley, who had the luxury of playing their passing out of advanced positions in midfield - i.e. Moncur pushing up, their forwards running the channels, giving them the spare man all the time. It starts by getting on the ball in midfield, and we rarely did. So why we doubled down on an already failed long ball game by removing Pack, is beyond me. 

Of course Djuric is a great target man and was the obvious (and welcome) player to bring on, but give yourself someone who can get him the ****ing ball, don't sacrifice the only ball playing midfielder in doing so. The stupidity of the subs is highlighted when you look at them together. Kent is a (sadly often wasted) bet on running at them from deep. Djuric is a bet on having players get crosses and balls into a target man. These are two different plans.

I didn't mention it in my report, but when you compare all of Barnsley's 900 free headers to our dearth of chances, the standard of our crossing was (not for the first time) very poor. The few times we got to the byline we then delivered a tired cross, or an underhit low ball to no one in particular. Here's an idea, if you're betting on Djuric why not bet on Eliason who at least is a disciplined crosser of the ball (the pair of subs that changed the game at Hull).

But no, we're awful in midfield, so our solution is to remove the one player who has put his foot on the ball and connected with any of his teammates, to chuck on Djuric, having already introduced Kent, a player who is more likely to run twenty five yards in the wrong direction into trouble before he'd ever look up and put a ball on Djuric's head. How is this joined up thinking. As you say, this is Roy of the Rovers stuff, cavalier but utterly nonsensical.

The fact it was a match where at the other end of the pitch Baker and Wright had decided simply to have the day off, I suppose we really should be grateful for a point as the whole thing stunk - and I say that as someone who has been positive all season. Add in the horrific approach at Burton in our prior trip, and I honestly think you'd be hard pressed to find a consecutive pair of away games we've looked so clueless since the Brentford/Preston debacle a year ago.

Still fuming, which is a first this season.  Of course I'm aware and pleased we remain very much in contention, but as always, the standard of performances should be our early warning indicator, and I'm afraid our alarm broke after sixty minutes yesterday due to overuse.

[Guest]

I am quite baffled. 

- Did we not comeback to win a point yesterday, 

- Do we not score a quarter of all goals in the last 15 minutes, 

- Don't we have some of the best stats in the league for points gained from losing positions?

That second goal, which came just moments after the sub I believe, was nothing to do with it when the defence was that inept.

[Redstreet]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I am increasingly baffled by LJ's insistence that to throw on attackers as subs is a way to try to win matches.

It's basically nonsense as the team balance goes out the window especially if you substitute the one man who can put a decent ball into the box , Pack .

OK  , we need wins but get the team to be more positive don't just rely on hoofing the ball up to another forward and leaving the defence more exposed.

For all his , so called, wisdom it's naive at best .

 

Pack off and Kent on , not a good move IMO

Pato was doing very little and Djuric certainly unsettled their big defenders . Most telling substitution was Moore  wing substituted for them and also Moncur , both of whom had excellent games I regret to say . I think on balance the subs worked 

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

....like we did at Leeds...

We certainly used long throws with some success but I don't recall us playing 3 deep midfielders. Or Leeds being down to 9 men. Or us being the home team.

In fact it was one of those games we should have shut down rather than pushing for a third goal imo. Unfortunately we tend not to do that, something LJ could do with learning.

[georgebcfc]

Hang on no one was complaining when Djuric came on and turned a drab 0-0 into 3 points last time out.. Maybe Pack had a knock, not uncommon to see '90 minute players' given slightly less when you have 2 games in 4 days. Damned if he makes subs or not I think 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Could Walsh have not brought something different to the midfield?

Why sign a decent young player and just bench him?? Barely play him, I mean- what's the point.

[pillred]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

LJ is tactically naive. It smacks more of how a team of eight year olds would play in the park, than a well paid professional club at the top end of the Championship.

Where has all the inventive attacking game that we had before Christmas gone? We have now become so predictable.Why when we're chasing the game does he keep pulling Reid, our highest goal scorer, back into midfield?

We are so dependent on four players to score. Tammy, Bobby, Flint and Bryan. Our midfield is a barren area. We never see them with late runs into the box that catch defenders unaware. Brownhill chips in occasionally but what do the rest contribute to attacks - all too predictable.

What a waste of another season where some of us dared to dream.

Tammy's back thank god for that!!

[Grey Fox]

3 hours ago, dave36 said:

Was his dad an ineffective midfielder too?

Lee Johnson was not an ineffective midfielder, he was influential in keeping the team passing the ball rather than hoofing it. It was no coincidence that when he missed the last five or so games of the play off final system , that our form collapsed and we missed out on automatic promotion..

[Grey Fox]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

LJ is tactically naive. It smacks more of how a team of eight year olds would play in the park, than a well paid professional club at the top end of the Championship.

Where has all the inventive attacking game that we had before Christmas gone? We have now become so predictable.Why when we're chasing the game does he keep pulling Reid, our highest goal scorer, back into midfield?

We are so dependent on four players to score. Tammy, Bobby, Flint and Bryan. Our midfield is a barren area. We never see them with late runs into the box that catch defenders unaware. Brownhill chips in occasionally but what do the rest contribute to attacks - all too predictable.

What a waste of another season where some of us dared to dream.

Looking at the stats 17 players have scored this season for us, with 6 scoring 5 or more ! You missed Patto. As to  waste, are you serious, were you at the Man U game, did you go to the Etihad, do you miss a relegatio battle, it has been a fantastic season, and it is not over yet. Look at the table, we are only outside the play offs on goal difference.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Lee Johnson was not an ineffective midfielder, he was influential in keeping the team passing the ball rather than hoofing it. It was no coincidence that when he missed the last five or so games of the play off final system , that our form collapsed and we missed out on automatic promotion..

He was something like what I would class as a 'continuity midfielder'...keep it simple, keep it ticking over.

Not the glamorous, but an increasingly important role in the modern game.

[Grey Fox]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He was something like what I would class as a 'continuity midfielder'...keep it simple, keep it ticking over.

Not the glamorous, but an increasingly important role in the modern game.

Agreed

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Agreed

Having said that though- playing a continuity midfielder in a 4-4-2, or a midfield 2 of whatever kind can leave you exposed.

You would get the optimum out of them with a 3rd central midfielder- not his fault that 4-4-2 or playing with 2 central mids was more prevalent at this time!

[Dr Balls]

The common theme for some of our more lacklustre games has been the inability to get the midfield going. Teams have learnt to hustle us and pressurise and we have nothing more to offer. Partly we have played into that by having Paterson drift around as part of the midfield rather than as part of a front 2 with Bobby Reid, since Diedhoui returned.

When making subs, Paterson and Diedhoui would be my main thoughts to replace. Both still tire in the last quarter. Play Djuric & Reid together. Bring on Kelly & move Bryan forward. We become more solid, plus Joe can put in decent crosses. If O'Dowda is close to fitness bring him on instead in front of Joe for even more attacking intent.

What I would definitely not do is drop Bobby Reid back into a central midfield 2 with Korey Smith or Pack. We know from experience over a number of seasons that he is not strong enough there and from this season that he is exceptional when he is playing further forward & mostly relieved of defensive duties. 

[Robbored]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could Walsh have not brought something different to the midfield?

Why sign a decent young player and just bench him?? Barely play him, I mean- what's the point.

He's young and LJ obviously didn't feel it worth risking him because of his inexperience of the Championship. He'll hopefully become a useful addition in the engine room next season.

[Natchfever]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He was something like what I would class as a 'continuity midfielder'...keep it simple, keep it ticking over.

Not the glamorous, but an increasingly important role in the modern game.

Played about a dozen games for anyone other than his dad. A shit footballer. Not that that has anything to do with his coaching credentials.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He's young and LJ obviously didn't feel it worth risking him because of his inexperience of the Championship. He'll hopefully become a useful addition in the engine room next season.

But he’ll still be inexperienced next season if we don’t ‘risk him’ and play him now....why do we sign so many players for significant fees and just leave them on the bench or send them out to play for other clubs?! Frustrating....

[BS4 on Tour...]

21 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Played about a dozen games for anyone other than his dad. A shit footballer. Not that that has anything to do with his coaching credentials.

Played around 100 games for managers other than his Dad....Terry Skiverton at Yeovil, Steve Coppell/Keith Millen at City and spells at Hearts, Chesterfield and Kilmarnock....

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

But he’ll still be inexperienced next season if we don’t ‘risk him’ and play him now....why do we sign so many players for significant fees and just leave them on the bench or send them out to play for other clubs?! Frustrating....

It's all about developing younger players as per SLs philosophy and strategy of signing lads from from our own or other academies which previous managers had failed to do. 

The idea being that over time City will have a team made up of several home grown players. Clearly this long term strategy will take time to bear fruit and so far its early days but maybe in two or three seasons we'll see it starting happen.

[Mr Popodopolous]

30 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Played about a dozen games for anyone other than his dad. A shit footballer. Not that that has anything to do with his coaching credentials.

Continuity midfielders are increasingly important in the game.LJ's short passes were an element of that IMO.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It's all about developing younger players as per SLs philosophy and strategy of signing lads from from our own or other academies which previous managers had failed to do. 

The idea being that over time City will have a team made up of several home grown players. Clearly this long term strategy will take time to bear fruit and so far its early days but maybe in two or three seasons we'll see it starting happen.

So the season ticket increases, that have caused so much irritation and discussion, weren’t instigated to fund big signings then? We are just looking to sign lads from other academies or bring our own through? That will be relatively cheap. And you think we’ve got to wait another three seasons to see SLs strategy bear fruit?

When he was appointed LJ clearly stated that he needed three transfer windows to get it right....not three seasons....and those windows have come and gone....yet if anyone dares criticise him or judge him on those three windows they get jumped on by some posters on here with unhelpful replies such as ‘stop embarrassing yourself’ etc...

Oh well I’ve followed City for well over 40 years with nothing to really shout about, except the great four seasons in the top tier, so I suppose I’ll just have to wait another three years...and when nothing happens then I look forward to similar dismal PR sound bites from the club.....but at least we are “three fifths of the way there”!!

Text book speak gets you nowhere....proven managers do get you somewhere....

[BUTOR]

On 31/03/2018 at 08:28, General Zod said:

I appreciate its not popular to question LJ 

This isn't true. It has always been popular to question LJ and always will be. No matter what he does right or wrong, the fans don't like him.

[EmissionImpossible]

8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

So the season ticket increases, that have caused so much irritation and discussion, weren’t instigated to fund big signings then? We are just looking to sign lads from other academies or bring our own through? That will be relatively cheap. And you think we’ve got to wait another three seasons to see SLs strategy bear fruit?

When he was appointed LJ clearly stated that he needed three transfer windows to get it right....not three seasons....and those windows have come and gone....yet if anyone dares criticise him or judge him on those three windows they get jumped on by some posters on here with unhelpful replies such as ‘stop embarrassing yourself’ etc...

Oh well I’ve followed City for well over 40 years with nothing to really shout about, except the great four seasons in the top tier, so I suppose I’ll just have to wait another three years...and when nothing happens then I look forward to similar dismal PR sound bites from the club.....but at least we are “three fifths of the way there”!!

Text book speak gets you nowhere....proven managers do get you somewhere....

LJ said he needed 3 transfer windows to get the team playing how he wanted. Which he’s achieved to a degree.

Proven managers such as who? Pulis?

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

This isn't true. It has always been popular to question LJ and always will be. No matter what he does right or wrong, the fans don't like him.

Absolutely. I've seen this 'people who think Johnson can't be questioned/can do no wrong' trotted out by a few posters in the last day or so and I honestly don't see more than a tiny handful of posters with that attitude.

There are a lot more at the other end of the scale.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, EmissionImpossible said:

LJ said he needed 3 transfer windows to get the team playing how he wanted. Which he’s achieved to a degree.

Proven managers such as who? Pulis?

Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock....

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

So the season ticket increases, that have caused so much irritation and discussion, weren’t instigated to fund big signings then? We are just looking to sign lads from other academies or bring our own through? That will be relatively cheap. And you think we’ve got to wait another three seasons to see SLs strategy bear fruit?

Almost every Championship club have put their SC prices up. However, the way City went about was as diabolical as it was arrogant.

When he was appointed LJ clearly stated that he needed three transfer windows to get it right....not three seasons....and those windows have come and gone....yet if anyone dares criticise him or judge him on those three windows they get jumped on by some posters on here with unhelpful replies such as ‘stop embarrassing yourself’ etc...

  * What LJ has done is completely transform City's style of play - his high press, high tempo style. To do that he needed players capable of doing it - hence the three windows. 

Oh well I’ve followed City for well over 40 years with nothing to really shout about, except the great four seasons in the top tier, so I suppose I’ll just have to wait another three years...and when nothing happens then I look forward to similar dismal PR sound bites from the club.....but at least we are “three fifths of the way there”!!I

* Not quite as long as me then........but surely you can agree that the club is currently as healthy as it's ever been? 

Text book speak gets you nowhere....proven managers do get you somewhere....

* Do they? If a proven manager can achieve wherever he goes he's a real special coach.

 

[EmissionImpossible]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock....

Not sure how much Steve Bruce has achieved other than promotion with Birmingham via the playoffs and he’s been a manager a lot longer than LJ

As for Warnock.....

[BS4 on Tour...]

Just now, EmissionImpossible said:

Not sure how much Steve Bruce has achieved other than promotion with Birmingham via the playoffs and he’s been a manager a lot longer than LJ

As for Warnock.....

Steve Bruce - four promotions to the premier league

Neil Warnock - seven (soon to be eight) promotions...

[EmissionImpossible]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Steve Bruce - four promotions to the premier league

Neil Warnock - seven (soon to be eight) promotions...

My mistake. But it’s a no from me to both. I don’t know if  LJ is going to be a successful manager or not but I like him and I like how generally we have played  under his tenure and the ethos of the club. As a player he was average, overrated by his dad but underrated by the fans and he’s still suffering from that unfortunately. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

Just now, EmissionImpossible said:

My mistake. But it’s a no from me to both. I don’t know if  LJ is going to be a successful manager or not but I like him and I like how generally we have played  under his tenure and the ethos of the club. As a player he was average, overrated by his dad but underrated by the fans and he’s still suffering from that unfortunately. 

I didn’t suggest them as managers of our club in that post, you just asked for examples of proven managers - and those two are very proven at this level...

[chinapig]

As it happens Bruce ended tonight's game with Snodgrass, Hogan, Kodjia and Grabban on the pitch.

A bit gung ho too then.

From Villa forum:

Bruce is a great manager when we are on form. But he struggles when we are not, as shown by throwing all strikers on. I like him but, we need more ideas from him than just putting all the goalscorers on.

Sounds familiar.

[Tipps69]

1 hour ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

It was making the change at 1-1 away from home that worried me. Losing with 10 minutes to go then yes all bets are off, chuck on the big men and launch it.

I guess that’s what he’s paid for, to make the decisions where he thinks someone else might better affect the game. Or maybe the player(s) in question had a knock / injury & with another game on Monday, he thought it better to bring the player(s) off to give him the best chance to use them on Monday?

There are more things to consider than just what is happening at that moment in time, especially when there is another just as crucial game coming up in a couple of days time.

LJ see’s these players everyday in training & is in a better position to decide who is ready to do what for us & we’ve made a remarkable transition from last season & are still well in with a chance of the play-offs which not even the most optimistic of fans could of dreamed of during the summer.

[CiderHider]

33 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Steve Bruce - four promotions to the premier league

Neil Warnock - seven (soon to be eight) promotions...

I'd rather stay in the Championship than sully the club. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Text book speak gets you nowhere....proven managers do get you somewhere....

Like Steve Bruce, you mean?

Like Pulis, you mean?

Bruce... Or Nuno?

Pulis and LJ, level on points.

No guarantees, whatsoever.

Warnock I will give you, Cardiff overachieving big time.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Like Steve Bruce, you mean?

Like Pulis, you mean?

Bruce... Or Nuno?

Pulis and LJ, level on points.

No guarantees, whatsoever.

Warnock I will give you, Cardiff overachieving big time.

Steve Bruce - 4 promotions from the championship to the Premier League in just 9 seasons at this level...I have never described Pulis as proven at this level...

Warnock - 7 (soon to be 8) promotions...

If you read previous posts on this thread, those were the two I described as proven...

[BS4 on Tour...]

12 minutes ago, CiderHider said:

I'd rather stay in the Championship than sully the club. 

You’d rather stay in the championship than go up you mean. That’s fine, I’ve posted on here previously that the holy grail of the premier league isn’t all it’s cracked up to be to me. I’m quite happy in the championship for now. I was asked to give examples of proven managers at this level by another poster, so I mentioned Steve Bruce and Neil Warnock...

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Steve Bruce - 4 promotions from the championship to the Premier League in just 9 seasons at this level...I have never described Pulis as proven at this level...

Warnock - 7 (soon to be 8) promotions...

If you read previous posts on this thread, those were the two I described as proven...

Okay, Warnock yeah. 

Bruce though... Hmmm. Look at his record since they hammered Wolves. Unconvinced Villa will go up, aging squad too.

Back in August, who would you take as more likely to go up... Nuno, or Bruce. My guess is a lot of people would have said Bruce. 'Names'- be they managers or players- are only as good as what they produce. No more, no less.

My point to you, is that there are no guarantees at all. Who is to say Bruce or Warnock, would be doing any better with us currently.

[CiderHider]

Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’d rather stay in the championship than go up you mean. That’s fine, I’ve posted on here previously that the holy grail of the premier league isn’t all it’s cracked up to be to me. I’m quite happy in the championship for now. I was asked to give examples of proven managers at this level by another poster, so I mentioned Steve Bruce and Neil Warnock...

I'd rather go up with Johnson, you're right the Champ is a great league but its not Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal. We need to be in the PL.  Both are good managers, can't argue there. 

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

This isn't true. It has always been popular to question LJ and always will be. No matter what he does right or wrong, the fans don't like him.

My own opinion is that I thought his cv was far too light to get a championship job and I think it’s fair to say his relationship with the board got his foot in the door at City.  When he arrived he continued the momentum and kept us up in his first season, lost the plot in his second and then won me round first half this season.  Now I’m hurtling at speed back to where I was last year.  Its all about progression on the pitch and we are in danger of undoing all the positives from H1with me slipping back into thinking he’s clueless which on a personal front, isn’t where I want to be.  Given the type of football I’ve watched for 3 months and a chunk of his 2 years, I’m starting to question whether the good form was a blip and what we are is just a lower to mid table team 2 years into LJ tenure and a squad costing millions.  I’ve said before that I understand SL wants a self sufficient club and that’s his right as owner so I’m behind the long term goal.  The trouble is, I’m back to starting to doubt whether LJ is the man to see through this vision but let’s see how the season plays out.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’d rather stay in the championship than go up you mean. That’s fine, I’ve posted on here previously that the holy grail of the premier league isn’t all it’s cracked up to be to me. I’m quite happy in the championship for now. I was asked to give examples of proven managers at this level by another poster, so I mentioned Steve Bruce and Neil Warnock...

They are certainly that and I appreciate you are not suggesting either should be our manager.

However there are those who do advocate this type of name manager - last season it was Pearson, Moyes and the perennial Colin.

It's known that SL has no time for Warnock and the likes of Bruce would be on a huge wage, demand enormous spending, then complain about a lack of backing.

Still, if we don't make the play offs you can be sure there will be a demand for big names again. Along with big name players of course.

There's a fair chance Rowett will be available again and he can bring Cameron Jerome with him as a bonus. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay, Warnock yeah. 

Bruce though... Hmmm. Look at his record since they hammered Wolves. Unconvinced Villa will go up, aging squad too.

Back in August, who would you take as more likely to go up... Nuno, or Bruce. My guess is a lot of people would have said Bruce. 'Names'- be they managers or players- are only as good as what they produce. No more, no less.

My point to you, is that there are no guarantees at all. Who is to say Bruce or Warnock, would be doing any better with us currently.

All I said is Bruce and Warnock are proven at this level...because they are...

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

He's young and LJ obviously didn't feel it worth risking him because of his inexperience of the Championship. He'll hopefully become a useful addition in the engine room next season.

I have hope for him.

It's a fine balancing act for LJ, but I wish he would be a bit bolder, more decisive, flexible.

Putting Walsh on for Paterson- and Walsh can certainly play as an attacking midfielder- then playing him behind Djuric and Reid, with Brownhill, Smith, Pack as the midfield 3.

That would have been bold, and yet given more of a structure, base- a foothold- in the midfield.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

All I said is Bruce and Warnock are proven at this level...because they are...

They have a record yes.

Soon to be number 9? Hmm...wouldn't surprise me that much if Fulham got 2nd, Jovanovic gaining promotion number 2. They have the best run-in of the 3, so definitely not impossible.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

They have a record yes.

Soon to be number 9? Hmm...wouldn't surprise me that much if Fulham got 2nd, Jovanovic gaining promotion number 2. They have the best run-in of the 3...but yes probably will be Cardiff in 2nd

As I said, soon to be number 8 not 9....small point but no need to big up NW too much!

 

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, General Zod said:

My own opinion is that I thought his cv was far too light to get a championship job and I think it’s fair to say his relationship with the board got his foot in the door at City.  When he arrived he continued the momentum and kept us up in his first season, lost the plot in his second and then won me round first half this season.  Now I’m hurtling at speed back to where I was last year.  Its all about progression on the pitch and we are in danger of undoing all the positives from H1with me slipping back into thinking he’s clueless which on a personal front, isn’t where I want to be.  Given the type of football I’ve watched for 3 months and a chunk of his 2 years, I’m starting to question whether the good form was a blip and what we are is just a lower to mid table team 2 years into LJ tenure and a squad costing millions.  I’ve said before that I understand SL wants a self sufficient club and that’s his right as owner so I’m behind the long term goal.  The trouble is, I’m back to starting to doubt whether LJ is the man to see through this vision but let’s see how the season plays out.

Isn't your first sentence an argument for no Championship club giving a job to any managers showing promise in lower leagues? That would put Dean Smith on shaky ground as well for instance.

In which case Mick McCarthy is looking for a job next season if we want to perpetuate the merry go round of old lags rather than develop young coaches.

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

As I said, soon to be number 8 not 9....small point but no need to big up NW too much!

 

Apology, 8 soon but 7 ATM.

I'd take Warnock over Bruce... If I supported another club.

Bruce though... He is good, don't get me wrong! Villa's current issues aren't entirely his fault... He signed some aging players too. So if Villa don't go up, FFP could cause them issues, no doubt. He added to that pressure by signing some aging players.

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd take Warnock over Bruce... If I supported another club.

Bruce though... He is good, don't get me wrong! Villa's current issues aren't entirely his fault... He signed some aging players too. So if Villa don't go up, FFP could cause them issues, no doubt. He added to that pressure by signing some aging players.

Bruce’s record in the championship is top notch....4 promotions to the premier league in only 9 seasons at this level...impressive...

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Bruce’s record in the championship is top notch....4 promotions to the premier league in only 9 seasons at this level...impressive...

Signing aging players though... Big gamble to take. If that don't go up- and they might as I believe Bruce has an impressive playoff record- that will be a problem for them with FFP.

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

One major difficulty LJ has is that he has no midfield creativity on the bench to bring on. Had GoN been fit then he'd would have been on the bench and almost certainly used.

This is where I worry.  Walsh is meant to be creative, yet wasn’t selected in the 18.  Hegeler is a nice footballer too, yet wasn’t brought on either.

[cidered abroad]

12 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Like father like Son. Roy of the Rovers duo

I'll drink to that. Two peas from the same pod. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock....

@DaveInSA - thanks for your weird reaction....so you don’t think Bruce and Warnock are proven managers at this level? Steve Bruce has 4 promotions to the premier league in just 9 seasons at this level....and Warnock 7 (soon to be 8) promotions on his CV...so,  why your reaction? You don’t think they are proven championship managers? Speak up....

[DaveInSA]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

@DaveInSA - thanks for your weird reaction....so you don’t think Bruce and Warnock are proven managers at this level? Steve Bruce has 4 promotions to the premier league in just 9 seasons at this level....and Warnock? 7 (soon to be 8) promotions on his CV...so,  why your reaction? You don’t think they are proven championship managers? Speak up....

They are, I thought you were wanting them at BCFC, you weren’t though - my bad. I wouldn’t have either of them at BCFC.

i’d love to know how much Bruce spent per promotion - he’s also been at bigger clubs than ours. 

[General Zod]

18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Isn't your first sentence an argument for no Championship club giving a job to any managers showing promise in lower leagues? That would put Dean Smith on shaky ground as well for instance.

In which case Mick McCarthy is looking for a job next season if we want to perpetuate the merry go round of old lags rather than develop young coaches.

But how much promise was LJ cv showing?  I’m all for giving potential a go and taking a punt on a successful manager or player from the lower league but what was on his cv at the time to make you think he was the one for us?  If LJ had no connection to the club I’d be amazed if he would have been on our radar.  He’s obviously still developing as a manager and still has lots to learn.  Maybe he should have been marked as one for the future, kept a close eye on and left to fine tune his skills in division one for another season or two.  He’s with us now and here to stay so the past doesn’t really matter.  I just hope he shows a few more signs of learning from past mistakes and develops quickly into the manager SL and MA feel he will become.  A win and performance on Monday would be a great start.