3 out of 5

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Interesting that none of us then have a clue what LJ was on about with five phases.

The only answer I have is that phase 5 is promotion.  Given that LJ says we have completed phases 1-3, we must be able to establish what he means by this.  Perhaps phase 3 is establishing ourselves at Championship level.  

But frankly I am still in the dark.

As others have said perhaps it is just words to cover up another big collapse in form - LJ's third as a manager.  Perhaps phase 4 is to improve his own management skills and avoid a fourth repetition of his own failure as a leader

If seventh in the table is failure I'm not sure what the measure of success is. I would think achieving more than most expected would qualify as such. Otherwise Dyche and Puell are on shaky ground for starters.

Progress was what most fans wanted and that is what has happened. There is more to do of course, hence 3 out of 5 I assume.

Perhaps we would have a clearer idea of the precise meaning if a follow up question had been asked. Perhaps at some point it will but LJ will no doubt be shot down by the same people whatever the explanation.

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

If seventh in the table is failure I'm not sure what the measure of success is. I would think achieving more than most expected would qualify as such. Otherwise Dyche and Puell are on shaky ground for starters.

Progress was what most fans wanted and that is what has happened. There is more to do of course, hence 3 out of 5 I assume.

Perhaps we would have a clearer idea of the precise meaning if a follow up question had been asked. Perhaps at some point it will but LJ will no doubt be shot down by the same people whatever the explanation.

I didn't refer to failure but to the fact that LJ in three seasons has overseen a serious collapse in form.

LJ didn't say we had scored 3 out of 5 but that we had achieved the first three phases of a five phase plan.  My original question was what exactly are these phases.  I gave my best, but poor, shot at an answer in my last post.  So far no one has suggested what all five phases are.

You are, of course, spot on in saying he should have been asked at the time what he meant.

[chinapig]

21 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I didn't refer to failure but to the fact that LJ in three seasons has overseen a serious collapse in form.

LJ didn't say we had scored 3 out of 5 but that we had achieved the first three phases of a five phase plan.  My original question was what exactly are these phases.  I gave my best, but poor, shot at an answer in my last post.  So far no one has suggested what all five phases are.

You are, of course, spot on in saying he should have been asked at the time what he meant.

Thanks for the response. My response was to your phrase (as opposed to phase!) 'failure as a leader', which rather overstates your case I think.

I wasn't talking about scoring 3 out of 5 either, but the same 3 out of 5 phases reference as you. A true lover of management jargon would have said milestones anyway .

We can all understand the general gist of what LJ said in the sense that he meant we have completed 3 stages of a plan.

But of course none of us can answer your question, only he can. Let's hope somebody asks him as the answer would no doubt be interesting.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I'm totally phased by this.

Phasers on.

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Phasers on.

I`m stunned

[Beni71]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I think Bryan or Kelly will be gone in the summer. I think Kelly has more longer term potential. On the basis that one isn’t here I would play odowda on the left. 

That would leave Edwards/Semenyo competing for a place in the squad on the right alongside Brownhill/Paterson. 

Somethings not quite right at the back. We miss a calm head. Despite Flints cult hero status and his goal scoring ability he panick’s (in my opinion) and Baker despite his never say die attitude looks for the leadership alongside him. Given the football LJ wants us to play, I’m not convinced they are the future as a pair. They will undoubtedly ensure we are a top 10 team. 

[Bryans Left Peg]

12 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

It’s amazing just how stupid some posters on here are, with absolutely no sense of perspective and unable to understand simple explanations or descriptions of what stage things are at. 

No doubt the same people that mis-quote, twist or fail to grasp so much of what people say - yet probably the same ones who whine like little children when nobody tells them anything..! 

Always the same small minded few talking absolute shite unfortunately.

[Ivorguy]

39 minutes ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

Always the same small minded few talking absolute shite unfortunately.

Always the same clique who don't answer the questions posed but pursue their own agenda, perhaps.

[Redstreet]

9 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Whichever side of the debate you're, I'm sure we all agree it would be helpful to have less psycho-babble from Lee, Ashton and everyone else.

So far we've had "projects", "pillars", "windows" and now we have "phases".

Anyone care to suggest the next meaningless term we're likely to hear if things don't go well?

 

“ Progress is very rarely linear “ 

[Bar BS3]

14 hours ago, General Zod said:

My interpretation is different to yours. All clubs even the likes of Barcelona can improve.  Your describing correctly this never ending process of improvement which wouldn’t need capping at 5 by LJ.  I believe LJ is saying  he’s only 3/5 towards getting the squad he needs for a promotion push.  This means 2 more windows and another year of experience for the younger players.  Not unreasonable but you can’t blame people for thinking he’s moved his own internal measures having previously said he needed 3 windows.  If statements are recorded people will naturally quote them at later dates.  Out of interest, how do you see this forum should be used as I’m quite new to posting but a long time lurker and you seem a little overly frustrated at views different to yours.  Things aren’t always black and white and I think this forum is a great way of airing views.  Even though I’m always right :), I enjoy reading and debating those that differ to mine as much as those that are similar as lots of people raise valid points.  

He said he needed 3 windows to see what he wants us to be doing. To stamp his way on things, if you like. He didn’t say we’d be the finished article after 3 windows. 

[BanburyRed]

1. Conception

2. Implementation

3. Consolidation

4. Evolution

5. Completion

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, BanburyRed said:

1. Conception

2. Implementation

3. Consolidation

4. Evolution

5. Completion

Frankie has done nothing to lose his place ,the new back four I've never heard of . 

[General Zod]

9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

He said he needed 3 windows to see what he wants us to be doing. To stamp his way on things, if you like. He didn’t say we’d be the finished article after 3 windows. 

I was under the impression he said he needed 3 windows to ‘shape the squad the way he would like’ That to me says squad wise we would be nearly the finished article or at least be trying to play in a consistent style the majority of weeks.  I don’t see a consistent playing style, we don’t seem to have players good enough to change things from the bench (even with a now near fit squad) and I believe we are a long way from having the right balance in the squad especially when it comes to strength in depth in a number of positions eg at full back, keeper, creativity in midfield and a goal threat from a number of places.  Even allowing for youngsters gaining experience elsewhere I think we are a while away.  Even by your interpretation im struggling as I don’t see that he’s finished ‘stamping his way on things’ unless his way is year in year inconsistencies and disappointing runs which we struggle to address is his way.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I was under the impression he said he needed 3 windows to ‘shape the squad the way he would like’ That to me says squad wise we would be nearly the finished article or at least be trying to play in a consistent style the majority of weeks.  I don’t see a consistent playing style, we don’t seem to have players good enough to change things from the bench (even with a now near fit squad) and I believe we are a long way from having the right balance in the squad especially when it comes to strength in depth in a number of positions eg at full back, keeper, creativity in midfield and a goal threat from a number of places.  Even allowing for youngsters gaining experience elsewhere I think we are a while away.  Even by your interpretation im struggling as I don’t see that he’s finished ‘stamping his way on things’ unless his way is year in year inconsistencies and disappointing runs which we struggle to address is his way.

I’m definitely in the "giving him the benefit of the doubt"on this one.  I think from pre-season to pre-Xmas he had shaped a squad and a style of play that most on here would’ve thought was good progress, in fact our league position and cup form was an over-achievement.  I think those "3 windows" (four candles?) were about establishing ourselves in this division.  This season might be a one off and we’ll be back to perennial relegation battles.  I don’t think so though, the foundation has been laid.

Re your "Nearly the finished article" comment.  For me that is the disappointment, that we’ve not been able to play the same brand for a while.  Away from home especially, probably going back as far as Hull, where we were poor for 70m and won 3-2.  I think some of this is because the squad has become unbalanced, both in numbers and players in certain positions, and therefore inconsistency in selection and player roles.

We must remember that this division is reknowned for being inconsistent.

This summer is going to be interesting....we still don’t know what division we’ll be in (a lot on here have given up), but if we are in the Champ, whether that will be on a low from missing out on play-offs, or losing in playoffs.

21pts left to play for.

Cant ‘effin’ wait for 3pm today.

[General Zod]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m definitely in the "giving him the benefit of the doubt"on this one.

I’m with you on this one.  Happy to see how the season pans out and how we go again next season.  By next year LJ would have had 3 full seasons which in my eyes is long enough to get the right mix of squad, find a way of playing away, get us playing more consistent than we’ve seen in the last two with a style of play that is good to watch more often than not.  Whilst the club has a long term plan for promotion it’s only ever going to work with the right manager in charge and by the end of next season I think we will no whether LJ is as good as we are being told he is.  

[reddogkev]

On ‎31‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 17:37, Dave L said:

I think it means we are progressing steadily, but not quite there yet, and that our long term policy of buying and developing younger players means that we're not in the position of other clubs with higher wage budgets who can go out and attempt to  buy instant success. It means that for every disappointing draw against Sunderland, Burton or Barnsley, there is an unexpected and brilliant victory at Fulham or at home to Derby or Manchester United. It means that we are one point off the play offs with 7 to play, having finished 17th last season. It means that in one of the most competitive leagues in the world we are more than holding our own, blooding new academy players, getting to the semi finals of the League Cup and pushing for promotion. It means that we will always find something to complain about, because we are football fans, but when we look back on this season - irrespective of where we finish - we will see that the trend is up and not down, and if we  continue this gradual progression, who knows what next season, or the one after that, may bring?.  Or something like that anyway. 

Just read this thread for the first time, and this is the greatest response I have ever seen on OTIB.

The above comment should be pinned to the top of the forum.

Surely the above answers any complaint / issue ever raised about this spectacular season.

[Bar BS3]

4 hours ago, General Zod said:

I was under the impression he said he needed 3 windows to ‘shape the squad the way he would like’ That to me says squad wise we would be nearly the finished article or at least be trying to play in a consistent style the majority of weeks.  I don’t see a consistent playing style, we don’t seem to have players good enough to change things from the bench (even with a now near fit squad) and I believe we are a long way from having the right balance in the squad especially when it comes to strength in depth in a number of positions eg at full back, keeper, creativity in midfield and a goal threat from a number of places.  Even allowing for youngsters gaining experience elsewhere I think we are a while away.  Even by your interpretation im struggling as I don’t see that he’s finished ‘stamping his way on things’ unless his way is year in year inconsistencies and disappointing runs which we struggle to address is his way.

If you can’t see the progress, whilst we are sat level on points with 6th place, then I don’t think there’s much point in trying to explain it. 

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

If you can’t see the progress, whilst we are sat level on points with 6th place, then I don’t think there’s much point in trying to explain it. 

It’s about performance not just points.  Once again I’m watching a team with a weird line up with no energy or threat so yes with each game that passes  I am struggling to see progress

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, General Zod said:

It’s about performance not just points.  Once again I’m watching a team with a weird line up with no energy or threat so yes with each game that passes  I am struggling to see progress

Can’t argue with that based on today..! 

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Can’t argue with that based on today..! 

I see plenty of progress off the pitch and so much is right with the club behind the scenes but I don’t think LJ is up to the job or is learning at sufficient speed.  I think whilst I can buy into what the club is trying to achieve LJ isn’t the head coach to get us there.

[Slack Bladder]

Perhaps we have regressed to phase 2 for the time being.

[Gert Mare]

How are we doing with the 5 pillars these days? Weren’t we supposed to be in Europe by the late 1990’s? Isn’t there a plan? I suppose no other clubs have plans except us? Thanks god for that. #Someofoursupportersareasgullibleassags.