3 out of 5

[Wanderingred]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

 

 

 

 

 

It’s amazing just how stupid some posters on here are, with absolutely no sense of perspective and unable to understand simple explanations or descriptions of what stage things are at. 

No doubt the same people that mis-quote, twist or fail to grasp so much of what people say - yet probably the same ones who whine like little children when nobody tells them anything..! 

Took the words right out of my mouth. This forum has been winding me up so much recently. It's toxic. Should really take a break.

[General Zod]

38 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I would be bloody furious if our manager - or any manager of any club - did not see their job as a work of progress. If Lee Johnson was looking at a team in seventh placed in the second tier and did not think we could improve, that would be a massive concern. If we do not go up this season, there is a lot to work to do and we need to improve. If we do go up this season, there is a lot of work to do and we need to improve. Every time Pep Guardiola has won the league, he has continued to try and improve his team or - where that was not possible - quit to seek a new challenge elsewhere.

Any manager who does not think they need to improve their team is arrogant, complacent and should quit before they damage their club.

It has been a frustrating three months since we were doing so well at the end of December but, for the love of God, could supporters stop picking every bloody interview apart and seeing there is a problem? We started the season being tipped by many for relegation. It is extremely likely we will end it with our best finish for a decade and second best in 38 years.

It is bloody frustrating not to have maintained our challenge more successfully but I wish people would maintain a modicum of perspective. 

Its not just the team that needs to improve its LJ and his management team as well.  Are you seeing signs that the management team are learning and will eventually have the ability to stamp out the regular bad runs and give us consistency? I appreciate all teams have blips but during LJ management career he is yet to demonstrate he is capable of anything other than going from one extreme to the other.  Our footballing  identity, which I was so proud of in H1 has gone out the window and on the pitch I now don’t know what we are all about.  It’s this change in our style of play which I find so frustrating.

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, General Zod said:

Do you think our activity this window was the action of a board determined to hammer home the advantage of our then league position?  I think the club has a longer term plan which results in baby steps towards promotion.  

At last!  

You've realised what some of us have known all along.

Welcome!

[Redandwhitescarf]

6 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I’m sure the players want promotion But it is certainly not the main objective of Bristol Sport and the club this season and this view has been reinforced by a fairly uninspiring transfer window.  Do you think our activity this window was the action of a board determined to hammer home the advantage of our then league position?  I think the club has a longer term plan which results in baby steps towards promotion.  I’m not saying it’s bad it’s just the way it is and now that the majority of existing season ticket holders have no doubt renewed we will start seeing more noise from the club like LJ phase 4 and 5 opinion gradually managing our expectations for next season.

Agree I think  the main focus of Bristol Sport for this season to get a strong financial platform from which to attempt a promotion push next season . Think they (like some of our fans) have been surprised how well we have done this season,, and they’ve now got to manage our expectations. The cup run helped us financially & reputationally , but not our league position. No longer the underdogs and started to believe our own hype. For the final run in we need to get back to what we did so well at the start of the season and hopefully phases 4 & 5  will be promotion and consolidation.

[General Zod]

40 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’d have thought it was pretty obvious, what he means. 

We have made some progress, but there is still work to be done and plenty of room for improvement yet. Exactly right, imo. 

My interpretation is different to yours. All clubs even the likes of Barcelona can improve.  Your describing correctly this never ending process of improvement which wouldn’t need capping at 5 by LJ.  I believe LJ is saying  he’s only 3/5 towards getting the squad he needs for a promotion push.  This means 2 more windows and another year of experience for the younger players.  Not unreasonable but you can’t blame people for thinking he’s moved his own internal measures having previously said he needed 3 windows.  If statements are recorded people will naturally quote them at later dates.  Out of interest, how do you see this forum should be used as I’m quite new to posting but a long time lurker and you seem a little overly frustrated at views different to yours.  Things aren’t always black and white and I think this forum is a great way of airing views.  Even though I’m always right :), I enjoy reading and debating those that differ to mine as much as those that are similar as lots of people raise valid points.  

[General Zod]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

At last!  

You've realised what some of us have known all along.

Welcome!

That’s a bit patronising:) and just because I can see the long term plan doesn’t mean I agree with it.  This transfer window was such a wasted opportunity and we should have used it to anchor ourselves in the playoffs spots and push for automatic.   Opportunities dont knock often as everyone says it’s a tough league to get out of and even following the baby steps to promotion formula doesn’t guarantee we will be in such a great position anytime soon. Sometimes fortune favours the brave.

[Cardy]

I think the other relevant point is we were probably at phase 4 out of 5 going into the Wolves game & it has gone tits up ever since! Although of course that is dependant on how long a phase actually lasts because compared to the last however many seasons this phase could be seen as a relative success...

[reddoc]

56 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

In fairness to those of us too stupid to understand, it is an ambiguous statement. As a simplistic example it could mean he's looking for a 40% performance improvement in the squad he's got, or that 2 out of every 5 players aren't good enough. Or other things which could improve by 2/5. Open to interpretation..

 

 

 

 

It’s amazing just how stupid some posters on here are, with absolutely no sense of perspective and unable to understand simple explanations or descriptions of what stage things are at. 

No doubt the same people that mis-quote, twist or fail to grasp so much of what people say - yet probably the same ones who whine like little children when nobody tells them anything..! 

 

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, General Zod said:

That’s a bit patronising:) and just because I can see the long term plan doesn’t mean I agree with it.  This transfer window was such a wasted opportunity and we should have used it to anchor ourselves in the playoffs spots and push for automatic.   Opportunities dont knock often as everyone says it’s a tough league to get out of and even following the baby steps to promotion formula doesn’t guarantee we will be in such a great position anytime soon. Sometimes fortune favours the brave.

It was sense of relief on my part rather than a deliberate attempt at patronising you! 

As it happens - I agree that the winter window was a missed opportunity but at the same time understand why it was, particularly when MA commented that 'we are not chasing promotion' which confirmed the 'baby steps' approach at the club and I admire any CEO sticking to a philosophy when it could have been very tempting to stray from it.

[LondonBristolian]

46 minutes ago, General Zod said:

Its not just the team that needs to improve its LJ and his management team as well.  Are you seeing signs that the management team are learning and will eventually have the ability to stamp out the regular bad runs and give us consistency? I appreciate all teams have blips but during LJ management career he is yet to demonstrate he is capable of anything other than going from one extreme to the other.  Our footballing  identity, which I was so proud of in H1 has gone out the window and on the pitch I now don’t know what we are all about.  It’s this change in our style of play which I find so frustrating.

Yes - I am seeing signs of that. The run since January is nowhere near as bad as our poor run last year and has included some decent performances - albeit mostly over 45 minutes rather than 90. There is also more resilience - I do not think we would have got a last minute point from a performance as reportedly poor as Friday last season.

Of course we’d all like the signs to be stronger and consistency to be achieved quicker but I do believe there has been progress this season.

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, General Zod said:

That’s a bit patronising:) and just because I can see the long term plan doesn’t mean I agree with it.  This transfer window was such a wasted opportunity and we should have used it to anchor ourselves in the playoffs spots and push for automatic.   Opportunities dont knock often as everyone says it’s a tough league to get out of and even following the baby steps to promotion formula doesn’t guarantee we will be in such a great position anytime soon. Sometimes fortune favours the brave.

I don't think anybody would claim the window was a success, though all signings carry risk and the success rate for most clubs is far from 100%.

However that doesn't invalidate the strategy and the alternative demanded by many of paying big fees and/or wages to satisfy a craving for so called big name players is far more risky, as we know from past experience.

Given the strategy it was never going to happen. Some of our fans will never accept the fact that those days are over though.

Still, if only we had signed Cameron Jerome ....

[Major Isewater]

16 hours ago, havanatopia said:

This is the primary launch seat for Level 3. Maybe this is what he means.

Is that Cristiano Ronaldo ? 

[KeepUpLino]

31 minutes ago, Cardy said:

I think the other relevant point is we were probably at phase 4 out of 5 going into the Wolves game & it has gone tits up ever since! Although of course that is dependant on how long a phase actually lasts because compared to the last however many seasons this phase could be seen as a relative success...

So what happens if we have a shit first half to next season, does that mean we’re back at phase 1 again?

[havanatopia]

28 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Is that Cristiano Ronaldo ? 

Don't be soft; he's already beyond level 5. Of course if he doesn't pay his taxes he will come down a peg.

[Davefevs]

19 hours ago, Beni71 said:

I doubt we will ever get to phase 5 as this would result in a change to our financial position. As it is we need to

Well put. I agree there will be ins and outs and progression will be dependent on this. That said our financial position will continue to restrict us, especially when we can’t tie down players like Reid on a new contract. Imagine we’ll need to cash in somewhere to bring in new players.

Beno - what makes you think we can’t tie down Reid to a new contract?

Agree that we may need to accept a bid for one of our biggies to finance a bit of the summer spend.  If we keep all of the biggies, then I think we’ll need to generate funds from the fringe players (small fees) and reduced wage bill (O’Neil etc).

Would O’Neil be offered a Wilbs-type coach / play contract?  Would he accept one?

38 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I don't think anybody would claim the window was a success, though all signings carry risk and the success rate for most clubs is far from 100%.

However that doesn't invalidate the strategy and the alternative demanded by many of paying big fees and/or wages to satisfy a craving for so called big name players is far more risky, as we know from past experience.

Given the strategy it was never going to happen. Some of our fans will never accept the fact that those days are over though.

Still, if only we had signed Cameron Jerome ....

There is a new school of thought from me that we could’ve just as easily have not bothered signing anyone in the window.  I like the potential of Walsh, but we might’ve been able to wait til the summer.  Hopefully he’s doing his own version of pre-season and getting up to speed with our style ready to really challenge Pack, Smith and Brownhill next season.

Re Diony and Kent.  I don’t like going overboard, but if i’m Being honest, they have been a waste of time and money.  

Re Kent, we could’ve been getting Eliasson much more game time

Re Diony, would Hinds have done any worse?

Bad decisions.....in hindsight.  I get the thought, but we are allowed to critique.

[Eddie Hitler]

Maybe he means seven of nine?

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Maybe he means seven of nine?

Or 3 out of 5 cats prefer Whiskas .

( which is why they don't shave )

Apart from him , one of the 40% who favour the clean shaven look .

Be careful on the internet if you want to find other such images ! 

[General Zod]

5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Obviously diony and Kent were seen as players that could come in and help get us promoted. Obviously they just turned out to be bad signings.

With Diony’s recent record and lack of confidence I doubt if he was seen as a player who would come in and get us promoted.  More a good opportunity to try before you buy, have a look at him and see if there was still a player somewhere in there.  Kent is a strange one.  Recent form would put him in a similar place to Diony but at least he knew what the champion was all about.  His goals created and scored stats for last year aren’t amazing which is surprising as that’s not how I remember him.  Either the stats don’t paint a true picture or maybe he’s just a player that flatters to decisive.  Add to that, the purchase of Walsh as a definite one for the future and we would have been lucky for those 3 to hit the ground running and help the promotion push.  In hindsight I would have rather persevered with Eliasson and Engvall as at least we own them and would seem to fit in more with the clubs long term philosophy of developing for the future .  It feels like in the window we didn’t really do one thing or the other.

[chinapig]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Beno - what makes you think we can’t tie down Reid to a new contract?

Agree that we may need to accept a bid for one of our biggies to finance a bit of the summer spend.  If we keep all of the biggies, then I think we’ll need to generate funds from the fringe players (small fees) and reduced wage bill (O’Neil etc).

Would O’Neil be offered a Wilbs-type coach / play contract?  Would he accept one?

There is a new school of thought from me that we could’ve just as easily have not bothered signing anyone in the window.  I like the potential of Walsh, but we might’ve been able to wait til the summer.  Hopefully he’s doing his own version of pre-season and getting up to speed with our style ready to really challenge Pack, Smith and Brownhill next season.

Re Diony and Kent.  I don’t like going overboard, but if i’m Being honest, they have been a waste of time and money.  

Re Kent, we could’ve been getting Eliasson much more game time

Re Diony, would Hinds have done any worse?

Bad decisions.....in hindsight.  I get the thought, but we are allowed to critique.

I belong to your school of thought, though I might have looked to add physical power to our midfield, which can be overrun by physical sides.

Fine to critique of course but the starting position needs to be to acknowledge that the club has a strategy that is not going to change. We should sign player x because he is famous is futile in that context.*

* not that you are saying that of course, but many others have and get rather pointlessly angry when it doesn't happen.

 

 

[Bazooka Joe]

On 31/03/2018 at 08:34, Ivorguy said:

In a Post interview LJ talking, again, about the team being a work in progress states that we are at phase three out of five.

Anyone  have an idea what this means?

 

I'm totally phased by this.

[Beni71]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Beno - what makes you think we can’t tie down Reid to a new contract?

Agree that we may need to accept a bid for one of our biggies to finance a bit of the summer spend.  If we keep all of the biggies, then I think we’ll need to generate funds from the fringe players (small fees) and reduced wage bill (O’Neil etc).

Would O’Neil be offered a Wilbs-type coach / play contract?  Would he accept one?

There is a new school of thought from me that we could’ve just as easily have not bothered signing anyone in the window.  I like the potential of Walsh, but we might’ve been able to wait til the summer.  Hopefully he’s doing his own version of pre-season and getting up to speed with our style ready to really challenge Pack, Smith and Brownhill next season.

Re Diony and Kent.  I don’t like going overboard, but if i’m Being honest, they have been a waste of time and money.  

Re Kent, we could’ve been getting Eliasson much more game time

Re Diony, would Hinds have done any worse?

Bad decisions.....in hindsight.  I get the thought, but we are allowed to critique.

Re Reid there is still time and we have a one year option on him, not convinced he will sign and given his stock is high as it’s ever been he holds the cards. 

O’neil would definitely free up our wage bill but I think he still has one season in him but this may hinder Walsh’s progression. I do think a fit Gary O’neil Would have helped us this season especially post Xmas. 

I don’t think we need a lot in the summer, if Reid stays then you could argue that there is no requirement for another striker and if Hinds is rated highly we should be pushing him into thev1st xi squad. I would like to see another right sided midfielder as it feels that we don’t have a natural in that area. Brownhill has done really well but  he’s also excellent in the centre. 

Will be interesting to see a full pre season with Elliason, Famara, Walsh, Djuric and Taylor.

[Bazooka Joe]

Whichever side of the debate you're, I'm sure we all agree it would be helpful to have less psycho-babble from Lee, Ashton and everyone else.

So far we've had "projects", "pillars", "windows" and now we have "phases".

Anyone care to suggest the next meaningless term we're likely to hear if things don't go well?

 

[chinapig]

20 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Whichever side of the debate you're, I'm sure we all agree it would be helpful to have less psycho-babble from Lee, Ashton and everyone else.

So far we've had "projects", "pillars", "windows" and now we have "phases".

Anyone care to suggest the next meaningless term we're likely to hear if things don't go well?

 

They may be jargon, though it's hardly difficult to understand what they mean, but I don't see how they qualify as psychobabble.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Could GON be offered a Wilbs-type coach / play contract?  Would he accept one?

 

I think he would but just not here. Given what he`s said to people like Danny Baker he`d jump at one at Millwall  - especially if their current run bears fruit!

[RumRed]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

At last!  

You've realised what some of us have known all along.

Welcome!

If we’re 2nd in the Champ at Xmas in the next 3 years I’ll happily eat my hat.

So much has been made of the challenges of the Champ, the money others team have, luck, poor refs and fine margins.

And yet we were there!  Doesn’t happen often and you can’t use those excuses one season and expect a different scenario the next.

Should have capitalised at the time, although I agree throwing money at it would not have guaranteed anything.

There appears to be a serious weakness at some level within the organisation.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Beni71 said:

Re Reid there is still time and we have a one year option on him, not convinced he will sign and given his stock is high as it’s ever been he holds the cards. 

‘Yep, and imho, we should pay the going rate.  This season, even in the very few poor games he’s had, he’s played virtually 90 minutes every week.  He won’t be guaranteed that elsewhere.  That needs to be in his thinking.  There will be suitors out there whether he is a one-season wonder, remember Blackman at Reading.  Interesting situation.  Heard we are discussing a 3 year deal.

O’neil would definitely free up our wage bill but I think he still has one season in him but this may hinder Walsh’s progression. I do think a fit Gary O’neil Would have helped us this season especially post Xmas. 

Agree he would’ve helped this season.  I like him, but not sure i would give him another year.  You could pick up two freebies for his wage.

I don’t think we need a lot in the summer

nor do I.

, if Reid stays then you could argue that there is no requirement for another striker and if Hinds is rated highly we should be pushing him into thev1st xi squad.

I’d like to see us go back to a more compact ‘pure’ first team squad and challenge the youngsters to prove they are good enough to handle games when required through injuries, rotation, suspension.

I would like to see another right sided midfielder as it feels that we don’t have a natural in that area. Brownhill has done really well but  he’s also excellent in the centre. 

Would you see O’Dowda on right or left?  With Eliasson, Paterson and Brownhill, plus Bryan covering the wide midfield roles, you might think we are ok (assumes no-one leaves).  I wouldn’t mind a right sided player though.

Will be interesting to see a full pre season with Elliason, Famara, Walsh, Djuric and Taylor.

yep, absolutely.  If we could retain everyone, I would look at seeing whether we could get:

• an upgrade on Frankie - without paying stupid money - which might mean we don’t get anyone.
• a young right back (unless Moore or Vyner are seen as ready)
• a wide midfielder

so no overhaul required.  Up front, where typically a big proportion of budget goes we are ok imho....Reid, Diedhiou, Djúric, Taylor, plus Hinds....McCoulsky and Semenyo maybe. 4 main guys, 3 young’uns.

 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I think he would but just not here. Given what he`s said to people like Danny Baker he`d jump at one at Millwall  - especially if their current run bears fruit!

Always wondered whether Portsmouth might be his destination, but i’ve Heard Millwall mentioned too.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Whichever side of the debate you're, I'm sure we all agree it would be helpful to have less psycho-babble from Lee, Ashton and everyone else.

So far we've had "projects", "pillars", "windows" and now we have "phases".

Anyone care to suggest the next meaningless term we're likely to hear if things don't go well?

 

Certainly less corporate speak from MA. Many of us just hear it as psduedobabble and essentially switch off. I know I do.

LJ uses 'trendy' words like 'group' instead of squad and although I find that particular use of the word irritating he doesn't use excessive amounts of corporate speech as MA does. In fact I find him very insightful and easy to listen to.

[Lanterne Rouge]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Always wondered whether Portsmouth might be his destination, but i’ve Heard Millwall mentioned too.

He`s a massive Millwall fan, pwopa sarf laandan boy - born in Beckenham. Also he is great mates with Neil Harris and still has a house in Bermondsey (I think).

When DB asked him if he fancied seeing out his career at The Den he said something like `Well, you never know do you? It depends on Neil really`.

I reckon he`ll be there next season in some capacity - player/coach if they don`t go up, coach only if they do. Like us, if they don`t get promotion some of their better players will move on (Lee Gregory, Aiden O`Brien, George Saville, Fred Onyedinma and the keeper Jordan Archer for instance) and Steve Morison must be due to retire soon.

A coaching set up of Harris, GON and Morison would be just what would be required to prevent them struggling next season - it often happens when a side overachieves as well we know!

[Ivorguy]

Interesting that none of us then have a clue what LJ was on about with five phases.

The only answer I have is that phase 5 is promotion.  Given that LJ says we have completed phases 1-3, we must be able to establish what he means by this.  Perhaps phase 3 is establishing ourselves at Championship level.  

But frankly I am still in the dark.

As others have said perhaps it is just words to cover up another big collapse in form - LJ's third as a manager.  Perhaps phase 4 is to improve his own management skills and avoid a fourth repetition of his own failure as a leader