SL Standing Ovation Yesterday

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 4/6/2018 at 12:44, BRISTOL86 said:

LJs position is undoubtedly more secure than most in English football, thanks to a patient and supportive chairman. 

However that still doesn’t make the actual task of delivering the objective any more or less easy. 

 

Tbh, B86, although you're arguing the point your heart doesn't seem to be in it when disagreeing about the relative ease of LJ's position.

Due to SL's uniquely steadfast and benevolent support, and no obvious definition of job failure where he can be held to account, his job is cushier, less pressurised, and 'easier' than almost every other manager.

Btw,  interesting you mention LJ's 'objective'. Seems a bit vague, as I'm not sure the club has ever stated exactly what is expected of him, and by when.

What do you think LJ's 'objective' is, how is he on course for delivering it, and when are we, as fans, entitled to make a judgement as to the likelihood of him ever delivering it? 

 

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Tbh, B86, although you're arguing the point your heart doesn't seem to be in it when disagreeing about the relative ease of LJ's position.

Due to SL's uniquely steadfast and benevolent support, and no obvious definition of job failure where he can be held to account, his job is cushier, less pressurised, and 'easier' than almost every other manager.

Btw,  interesting you mention LJ's 'objective'. Seems a bit vague, as I'm not sure the club has ever stated exactly what is expected of him, and by when.

What do you think LJ's 'objective' is, how is he on course for delivering it, and when are we, as fans, entitled to make a judgement as to the likelihood of him ever delivering it? 

 

 

 

You don’t think Lansdown/the board has set objectives for LJ to measure his performance? I’m sure they have.

I imagine one of them is evidence of progression of the clubs standing.

I’d say 18th -> 17th -> 8th (as of now) would meet their definition of progression. 

Thats been done with one of the smallest budgets in the league so I imagine they’re fairly pleased with the progress. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 4/6/2018 at 16:40, MC RISK77 said:

Cushiest job in football is just nonsense..he has been in the role for 2 years and 3 months not the years that Tisdale and wenger have had so the comparison does not stand to reason.

 

I don't think so.

Tisdale is unique in his own way, but it's accepted he's the exception to the rule at a club where expectations are low.

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophies and brought many, many years of sustained success to Arsenal so unless they think they can find even better you'd expect his job to be safe.

These 2 stand out as being incredibly rare.

If you think these 2 comparisons don't stand up then you seem toi be agreeing with the original comment. If not these 2, then who?

I can't think of any so afaic. LJ's position at BCFC is  certainly amongst the top 3 cushiest managers in English football. 

From there we can all put them in whatever order as we see fit as to who has the cushiest, but the managers at the 89 other clubs all have a tougher time in trying to maintain their jobs imo.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

34 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You don’t think Lansdown/the board has set objectives for LJ to measure his performance? I’m sure they have.

I imagine one of them is evidence of progression of the clubs standing.

I’d say 18th -> 17th -> 8th (as of now) would meet their definition of progression. 

Thats been done with one of the smallest budgets in the league so I imagine they’re fairly pleased with the progress. 

All very well second guessing the club, but you mentioned his 'objective', and how it's not easy an easy task for him to deliver it, so what is this objective?

We, as fans, need to know what his objective is it because we are entitled to judge any manager of BCFC as to whether they are living up to reasonable expectations.

What are the expectations on LJ?

With results, performances and the mood of the fanbase all dipping spectacularly it doesn't seem to me reasonable expectations are currently being met.

 

 

[Gert Mare]

57 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You don’t think Lansdown/the board has set objectives for LJ to measure his performance? I’m sure they have.

I imagine one of them is evidence of progression of the clubs standing.

I’d say 18th -> 17th -> 8th (as of now) would meet their definition of progression. 

Thats been done with one of the smallest budgets in the league so I imagine they’re fairly pleased with the progress. 

At Christmas we were 17 points clear of Millwall who also spent about £800k in transfer dealings with their small budget.....and we need to be pleased????

[BRISTOL86]

9 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

All very well second guessing the club, but you mentioned his 'objective', and how it's not easy an easy task for him to deliver it, so what is this objective?

We, as fans, need to know what his objective is it because we are entitled to judge any manager of BCFC as to whether they are living up to reasonable expectations.

What are the expectations on LJ?

With results, performances and the mood of the fanbase all dipping spectacularly it doesn't seem to me reasonable expectations are currently being met.

 

 

Actually, believe it or not, we don’t.

However it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the club will be looking for evidence of a general upward progression, which has happened under his management. 

Whether it will be good enough long term remains to be seen but that’s not the question at hand. 

The club would be (rightly) be a laughing stock if they changed manager after the season we’ve had. 

[BRISTOL86]

8 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At Christmas we were 17 points clear of Millwall who also spent about £800k in transfer dealings with their small budget.....and we need to be pleased????

I didn’t say you should be pleased with that spell of the season. I’m not. 

I said that the club will be assessing progress on more than just three months. If it’s ‘reasonable’ to assess his overall performance in his role on three months then why not, say, September to November rather than January to March? 

Thay would be a bit ridiculous wouldn’t it? See what I’m getting at?

[tinman85]

9 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I don't think so.

Tisdale is unique in his own way, but it's accepted he's the exception to the rule at a club where expectations are low.

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophies and brought many, many years of sustained success to Arsenal so unless they think they can find even better you'd expect his job to be safe.

These 2 stand out as being incredibly rare.

If you think these 2 comparisons don't stand up then you seem toi be agreeing with the original comment. If not these 2, then who?

I can't think of any so afaic. LJ's position at BCFC is  certainly amongst the top 3 cushiest managers in English football. 

From there we can all put them in whatever order as we see fit as to who has the cushiest, but the managers at the 89 other clubs all have a tougher time in trying to maintain their jobs imo.

 

Any other club would be calling for the managers head. But a lot of our fans are happy with mediocrity. 

[Gert Mare]

7 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I didn’t say you should be pleased with that spell of the season. I’m not. 

I said that the club will be assessing progress on more than just three months. If it’s ‘reasonable’ to assess his overall performance in his role on three months then why not, say, September to November rather than January to March? 

Thay would be a bit ridiculous wouldn’t it? See what I’m getting at?

I agree that if the season was reversed it would look ok, but the collapse is horrendous and it’s not the first time. It was the same last season, it was the same at Barnsley and it was the same at Oldham.

Four seasons of repeating the same horrendous collapses in form. That must be some sort of record isn’t it?

[Hampshire Red]

timans post are (as others have said) so predicatable and tiresome. Is he/she a City fan. What stand is being talked about and who else's money could SL be spending if it isnt his own. Surely '85 cant be a year of birth!

[BRISTOL86]

41 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I agree that if the season was reversed it would look ok, but the collapse is horrendous and it’s not the first time. It was the same last season, it was the same at Barnsley and it was the same at Oldham.

Four seasons of repeating the same horrendous collapses in form. That must be some sort of record isn’t it?

I agree and I wish I knew why as much of the next man...!

[windmillhillred]

8 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Any other club would be calling for the managers head. But a lot of our fans are happy with mediocrity. 

Nope. Sections of the support would be. As small sections of ours are.Don't you want Dean Smith? Not exactly a shining example of sustained success (whatever his many good points might be).

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, windmillhillred said:

Nope. Sections of the support would be. As small sections of ours are.Don't you want Dean Smith? Not exactly a shining example of sustained success (whatever his many good points might be).

He wanted Warnock after Cardiff beat us, Dean Smith after Brentford beat us and now it’s Neil Harris...

[Lanterne Rouge]

25 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He wanted Warnock after Cardiff beat us, Dean Smith after Brentford beat us and now it’s Neil Harris...

Garry Monk in the frame come Tuesday 10 o`clock then?

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 4/8/2018 at 09:27, BRISTOL86 said:

Actually, believe it or not, we don’t.

However it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the club will be looking for evidence of a general upward progression, which has happened under his management. 

Whether it will be good enough long term remains to be seen but that’s not the question at hand. 

The club would be (rightly) be a laughing stock if they changed manager after the season we’ve had. 

We don't have any right to know what LJ's objective is? How can we ever judge his performance then?

Does he himself have a clear objective he is to be judged on or is he just meandering along in the knowledge he has 100% owner support so he won't lose his job more or less whatever happens?

I haven't being calling for LJ's head btw.

Having been totally mystified by his appointment, I've since gone through periods where I've been both surprised and impressed with him and utterly confused, frustrated and angry.

At the moment I feel I've now given him the benefit of the doubt for long enough, and am veering towards 'LJ out' again. If he can't start to show he's learnt from past mistakes, put an end to these now entirely predictable demoralising runs, and at least produce a football team worth turning up to watch, obviously he must be dismissed for the good of the club.

[BRISTOL86]

20 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We don't have any right to know what LJ's objective is? How can we ever judge his performance then?

Does he himself have a clear objective he is to be judged on or is he just meandering along in the knowledge he has 100% owner support so he won't lose his job more or less whatever happens?

I haven't being calling for LJ's head btw.

Having been totally mystified by his appointment, I've since gone through periods where I've been both surprised and impressed with him and utterly confused, frustrated and angry.

At the moment I feel I've now given him the benefit of the doubt for long enough, and am veering towards 'LJ out' again. If he can't start to show he's learnt from past mistakes, put an end to these now entirely predictable demoralising runs, and at least produce a football team worth turning up to watch, obviously he must be dismissed for the good of the club.

No not really - ultimately Johnson’s senior management (Lansdown and Co.) are who LJ is answerable/accountable to. I know us fans like to think that it’s all about us but in reality you have no more right to know Johnson’s employment details, including his objectives than you do mine.

And let’s be honest, fans expectations will be what they will be regardless of what any actual objectives/expectations are set to a manager by those who employ him (at any club, not just ours)

Lansdown has on many occasions stated that the ultimate aim of the club is to become a premier league club. Therefore I’d say reading between the lines, ‘success’ in the eyes of those who decide whether he stays or goes, would be demonstrable progress towards that objective. 

As I said above, I imagine having gone 18th -> 17th -> 8th (as of now) under his management, the decision makers feel that progress is being made towards that objective. The real task for Johnson now, assuming we don’t get promoted, is having performed so much above expectation this season - how does he demonstrate progress made next season?

It’ll be a big ask to finish as high next season, given our budget relative to the rest of the league and what’s looking like a rather disappointing end to a promising season. If we are more consistent in the way we accumulate points next season but finish 12th, will people see that as forwards or backwards step? Hard to say. 

For the record I’m neither pro nor anti Johnson despite what some may think. I’ve leaned in both directions during his tenure.

What I am is pro Bristol City, and I feel that the stability of the current setup is in the long term interest of the club and our aim to become an established premier league club. 

But I’m also realistic enough to know that it’s not going to come overnight when our budget is towards the bottom end. 

I believe Johnson is easily in enough credit  overall to be given another season to prove he’s the right person to progress us. I just hope that people aren’t so blinded by this season that they would see a top half finish next year as failure.

My worry is anything below the playoffs almost from the off will see the knives being sharpened very early next season, despite us being realistically a long way from a top six club, financially. 

[MC RISK77]

18 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

No not really - ultimately Johnson’s senior management (Lansdown and Co.) are who LJ is answerable/accountable to. I know us fans like to think that it’s all about us but in reality you have no more right to know Johnson’s employment details, including his objectives than you do mine.

And let’s be honest, fans expectations will be what they will be regardless of what any actual objectives/expectations are set to a manager by those who employ him (at any club, not just ours)

Lansdown has on many occasions stated that the ultimate aim of the club is to become a premier league club. Therefore I’d say reading between the lines, ‘success’ in the eyes of those who decide whether he stays or goes, would be demonstrable progress towards that objective. 

As I said above, I imagine having gone 18th -> 17th -> 8th (as of now) under his management, the decision makers feel that progress is being made towards that objective. The real task for Johnson now, assuming we don’t get promoted, is having performed so much above expectation this season - how does he demonstrate progress made next season?

It’ll be a big ask to finish as high next season, given our budget relative to the rest of the league and what’s looking like a rather disappointing end to a promising season. If we are more consistent in the way we accumulate points next season but finish 12th, will people see that as forwards or backwards step? Hard to say. 

For the record I’m neither pro nor anti Johnson despite what some may think. I’ve leaned in both directions during his tenure.

What I am is pro Bristol City, and I feel that the stability of the current setup is in the long term interest of the club and our aim to become an established premier league club. 

But I’m also realistic enough to know that it’s not going to come overnight when our budget is towards the bottom end. 

I believe Johnson is easily in enough credit  overall to be given another season to prove he’s the right person to progress us. I just hope that people aren’t so blinded by this season that they would see a top half finish next year as failure.

My worry is anything below the playoffs almost from the off will see the knives being sharpened very early next season, despite us being realistically a long way from a top six club, financially. 

Brilliant balanced post and exactly My thoughts.

agree that next season is a huge test and expectations will be very high.