Defend your property or not ?

[daored]

Following the news that a 78 year old male has been bailed, after being arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

A 37 year old man, armed with a screwdriver, forced the homeowner into the kitchen where the struggle ensued, and the suspect was stabbed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43648896

Should this man be prosecuted? What would you do in a similar situation?

I had an attempted burglary a couple of years ago, fortunately they ran off when the alarm went off. But sure as hell I would defend my property and my partner if someone broke into my home.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 minutes ago, daored said:

Following the news that a 78 year old male has been bailed, after being arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

A 37 year old man, armed with a screwdriver, forced the homeowner into the kitchen where the struggle ensued, and the suspect was stabbed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43648896

Should this man be prosecuted? What would you do in a similar situation?

I had an attempted burglary a couple of years ago, fortunately they ran off when the alarm went off. But sure as hell I would defend my property and my partner if someone broke into my home.

It has to be investigated of course, but if you break into somebody's house armed with a weapon (of any description) and offer violence to the occupants one way or another it may well end in tragedy.

The bottom line for me is if this man has defended himself within a struggle then he should not be charged.

[BRISTOL86]

I’ve seen a lot of Daily Mail style outrage about this, but I don’t see that police did an awful lot wrong? No matter the circumstances, can you really expect to kill someone and not be arrested? You’ve just extinguished a human life, what else are they meant to do until they’ve established the circumstances?

Assuming the circumstances were that he was simply trying to defend himself in the face of a dangerous intruder I can’t see that anything will come of it. 

Obviously if the assailant was running away and he stabbed him in the back it’s very different to if he lunged at him with a screwdriver. 

[Super]

He should get a medal.

[The Batman]

There is a reason I have an axe situated in my house if ever something like this did occur. I am not going to risk the safety of my wife and newborn daughter. I'd take the time if it meant no harm came to them. That is my interpretation of reasonable force, which is allowed under the Law.

Mind you, the burglars would have to get passed the dog first.

This is the Tony Martin case all over again. For those too young to remember, it was quite an historic case back in 1999 where he shot 2 burglars and was arrested and charged for one count of murder and attempted murder of the other. He was charged with murder but then reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

As far as I am concerned, as soon as you break in and you're over the threshold, you're fair game. Anything that happens to you is your own doing.

[Anglo-Welsh]

3 hours ago, daored said:

Following the news that a 78 year old male has been bailed, after being arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

A 37 year old man, armed with a screwdriver, forced the homeowner into the kitchen where the struggle ensued, and the suspect was stabbed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43648896

Should this man be prosecuted? What would you do in a similar situation?

I had an attempted burglary a couple of years ago, fortunately they ran off when the alarm went off. But sure as hell I would defend my property and my partner if someone broke into my home.

You have the right to do whatever necessary to defend your house and it's occupants i.e. children, wife etc. I wouldn't think twice about killing or seriously injuring a burglar and I'd encourage others to do the same. If these criminals know what to expect should they chance it hopefully it puts them off the crime.

[RUSSEL85]

1 hour ago, The Batman said:

There is a reason I have an axe situated in my house if ever something like this did occur. I am not going to risk the safety of my wife and newborn daughter. I'd take the time if it meant no harm came to them. That is my interpretation of reasonable force, which is allowed under the Law.

Mind you, the burglars would have to get passed the dog first.

This is the Tony Martin case all over again. For those too young to remember, it was quite an historic case back in 1999 where he shot 2 burglars and was arrested and charged for one count of murder and attempted murder of the other. He was charged with murder but then reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

As far as I am concerned, as soon as you break in and you're over the threshold, you're fair game. Anything that happens to you is your own doing.

That sentence alone has depressed me!!

I would have done the same, people have no idea what the burglar was capable of once caught, he took the risk and paid the ultimate price and should be released without charge. I just hope all the London gangs who carry knives are being arrested too, but I wont hold my breath. 

[The Gasbuster]

The crappy law in place stipulates that you are entitled to defend yourself until you feel no longer under threat.

What a load of bollocks. If the intruder is still there, when are you going to feel "safe" ?!

If he runs off, what guarantee that he won't return with a load of his mates ?

Any **** who breaks into somebody else's property deserves all they get, especially when armed.

Give the 78 year old a medal. 

[cidercity1987]

How embarrassing for the 38 year old to be outfought by a 78 year old? 

I suppose he didn't have long to feel embarrassed.

 

[Super]

Make that 2 medals

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5580925/Pensioner-78-stabbed-burglar-bailed.html

[Robbored]

20 hours ago, Super said:

He should get a medal.

See the post above!

If he stabbed the bloke in back - that's murder regardless of the circumstances.

if he stabbed him in a struggle.........manslauughter regardless of circumstances 

The morality of it doesn't carry any weight in the eyes of the law.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

See the post above!

If he stabbed the bloke in back - that's murder regardless of the circumstances.

if he stabbed him in a struggle.........manslauughter regardless of circumstances 

The morality of it doesn't carry any weight in the eyes of the law.

Utter nonsense, it is possible to kill somebody in a struggle and still be classed as self defence and not be manslaughter whereby there will be no charges and the coroner will almost order a decision of death by misadventure.

Also again somebody can be stabbed in the back and it still not be murder or even be manslaughter, it is quite possible for this to happen within the context of a struggle, where the people involved are locked in a violent struggle.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Utter nonsense, it is possible to kill somebody in a struggle and still be classed as self defence and not be manslaughter whereby there will be no charges and the coroner will almost order a decision of death by misadventure.

Also again somebody can be stabbed in the back and it still not be murder or even be manslaughter, it is quite possible for this to happen within the context of a struggle, where the people involved are locked in a violent struggle.

You're obviously more familiar with law that me EMB. 

My laymans understanding that if you stabbed a person  deliberately and killed them that's murder. If you stabbed someone accidentally and killed them in a struggle that's manslaughter. 

I didn't realise self defence was a point of law.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You're obviously more familiar with law that me EMB. 

My laymans understanding that if you stabbed a person  deliberately and killed them that's murder. If you stabbed someone accidentally and killed them in a struggle that's manslaughter. 

I didn't realise self defence was a point of law.

The force and actions used have to be proportionate to the actual/perceived threat/violence being offered and the person has to be fear in for their life.

 

[Maesknoll Red]

I have no political party allegiance, I like to se a blend of a few of the parties policies, but this Corbynista views are ones I’d be putting in room 101....

 

[cidercity1987]

Released without charge and no further action. Great news now give him an MBE.

[joe jordans teeth]

3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I have no political party allegiance, I like to se a blend of a few of the parties policies, but this Corbynista views are ones I’d be putting in room 101....

 

I’m not on Twitter but I hope the moron got put firmly in his place

[LondonBristolian]

On 05/04/2018 at 12:25, Esmond Million's Bung said:

It has to be investigated of course, but if you break into somebody's house armed with a weapon (of any description) and offer violence to the occupants one way or another it may well end in tragedy.

The bottom line for me is if this man has defended himself within a struggle then he should not be charged.

Absolutely this. Of course the police have to investigate - I am not convinced there was a need to arrest the man in this case and certainly hope he was well looked after but the police should not be criticised for needing to establish the facts.

I think anyone who reasonably believes they or their family are in danger has the right to take any steps they need to take to protect themselves. In this case, it certainly sounds like he was wholly entitled to act as he did and I am glad he has been released without charge.

I hope he is okay given what must have been a horrific ordeal for him. I know some have said they hope he gets a medal but I just hope he gets any support he needs to feel safe in his home again and to be at peace with what has happened. It cannot be nice for anyone to have the knowledge they have taken a life, whatever the circumstances, and I hope he gets any support and reassurance necessary.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

32 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Absolutely this. Of course the police have to investigate - I am not convinced there was a need to arrest the man in this case and certainly hope he was well looked after but the police should not be criticised for needing to establish the facts.

I think anyone who reasonably believes they or their family are in danger has the right to take any steps they need to take to protect themselves. In this case, it certainly sounds like he was wholly entitled to act as he did and I am glad he has been released without charge.

I hope he is okay given what must have been a horrific ordeal for him. I know some have said they hope he gets a medal but I just hope he gets any support he needs to feel safe in his home again and to be at peace with what has happened. It cannot be nice for anyone to have the knowledge they have taken a life, whatever the circumstances, and I hope he gets any support and reassurance necessary.

I totally agree with all of this especially the highlighted portion, he should been given an appointment to attend with a solicitor, his statement could have been taken under caution.

[ZiderEyed]

If anyone invades your house you're well within your rights to defend yourself as far as I'm concerned. My mum used to have a rainmaker to beat burglars over the head with, she only had to use it once, they didn't fancy coming back after that!

[Super]

Great news. Best wishes to Richard.

[Northern Red]

From the various descriptions, it sounds like matey who got stabbed was a member of the travelling community?

Loads of photos of him wearing vests, "good boxer when he was younger", history of robbing the elderly and doing fake building work, "gentle giant", etc.

I hope the old boy has people keeping an eye out for him when this calms down. That lot will want to burn his house down.

[grove park city]

19 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I have no political party allegiance, I like to se a blend of a few of the parties policies, but this Corbynista views are ones I’d be putting in room 101....

 

Another load of left wing crap let down by society bullshit.

Should have kept out of the property just another low life scum bag off the streets.

Hope Mr Osborn-Brooks gets over this and can get back to a settled life.

[RedLionLad]

On 06/04/2018 at 11:40, Robbored said:

You're obviously more familiar with law that me EMB. 

My laymans understanding that if you stabbed a person  deliberately and killed them that's murder. If you stabbed someone accidentally and killed them in a struggle that's manslaughter. 

I didn't realise self defence was a point of law.

5

But you still comment as if you are stating facts.

Like most other subjects, you haven't got a clue.

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 08:09, Northern Red said:

From the various descriptions, it sounds like matey who got stabbed was a member of the travelling community?

Loads of photos of him wearing vests, "good boxer when he was younger", history of robbing the elderly and doing fake building work, "gentle giant", etc.

I hope the old boy has people keeping an eye out for him when this calms down. That lot will want to burn his house down.

Apparently the burgler once met David Haye in the boxing ring some years ago. (so probably not the sort of armed intruder anyone would wish to come face to face with.)

Fair play to the householder for getting the better of the low life,  -justice was done in a much better way than if by trial in a court of ass (I mean .. Law )

Sadly the man and wife have been put under police protection and can't return to their home due to serious fear of revenge retaliation by scum bag aquaintances of the dead man. 

What a World we live in eh? ...with arseholes like that freely prowling our streets.

Hope the burglary victims manage to find peace and happiness in their enforced new lives together for the remainder if their days.. Innocent lives turned upside down through no fault of their own.

 

[The Gasbuster]

On 07/04/2018 at 11:19, grove park city said:

Another load of left wing crap let down by society bullshit.

Should have kept out of the property just another low life scum bag off the streets.

Hope Mr Osborn-Brooks gets over this and can get back to a settled life.

Spot on.

Everybody is accountable for their own actions - no excuses at all.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

10 hours ago, WhistleHappy said:

Apparently the burgler once met David Haye in the boxing ring some years ago. (so probably not the sort of armed intruder anyone would wish to come face to face with.)

Fair play to the householder for getting the better of the low life,  -justice was done in a much better way than if by trial in a court of ass (I mean .. Law )

Sadly the man and wife have been put under police protection and can't return to their home due to serious fear of revenge retaliation by scum bag aquaintances of the dead man. 

What a World we live in eh? ...with arseholes like that freely prowling our streets.

Hope the burglary victims manage to find peace and happiness in their enforced new lives together for the remainder if their days.. Innocent lives turned upside down through no fault of their own.

 

He was no angel...FFS. Tough shit.

[Major Isewater]

On 05/04/2018 at 15:10, The Batman said:

There is a reason I have an axe situated in my house if ever something like this did occur. I am not going to risk the safety of my wife and newborn daughter. I'd take the time if it meant no harm came to them. That is my interpretation of reasonable force, which is allowed under the Law.

Mind you, the burglars would have to get passed the dog first.

This is the Tony Martin case all over again. For those too young to remember, it was quite an historic case back in 1999 where he shot 2 burglars and was arrested and charged for one count of murder and attempted murder of the other. He was charged with murder but then reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

As far as I am concerned, as soon as you break in and you're over the threshold, you're fair game. Anything that happens to you is your own doing.

The problem is that you could kill someone on the pretext that they were burglarising your home .

Many years ago I disturbed a burglar in my house and I chased him off .

The Police told me I was stupid to do what I had done as he could have been armed or had I caught the lowlife I could have been charged with assault ! 

I reacted and am happy that I scared the scumbag , I knew he wouldn't try my house again.

I told the Police that I couldn't react in any other way . To do nothing or to run and hide would be harder for me to live with than physical wounds which I would undoubtedly have had ,  had we clashed . 

As it was my house didn't feel like my home , my sanctuary for a while after the incident.

Every time I put the key in the lock I wondered if I would be alone . 

[Taz]

After having been burgled a few years ago whilst at work, the feeling described above about it not feeling like your home, and also jumping out of bed to run to the window or top of the stairs to see if there is anyone there, is a very true statement. It takes months, if not years to get over that. 

Unfortunately/fortunately (depending how you look at it), I wasn't around to deal with the question "what if" - although I did tell the police at the time that I hoped they found them before I did, otherwise they'd be coming back for me. Nobody was ever convicted.

Would I attack someone if they broke into my house whilst I was there? If I had to then yes I would. There's a reason I keep a golf club in the cupboard behind the front door, and it ain't for recreation!!

Fair play to the bloke, just hope that for his and his families sake, he moves soon.

Scumbags like that don't deserve to live.