steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 Apologies in advance if this has been covered (and yes it's a bit of another postmortem), but just looking at some stats from this season which really tell a story: First, 2017 home form: w-d-l 7-3-3 then 2018 4-3-2 so a slight decline in points per game, but not major. Now 2017 away w-d-l 6-5-1 top 2 form then 2018 W-d-l. 0-5-6 fell off a cliff. so it's pretty clear where the problem lies - away from home. I've not been away this season so my question is, what has changed away from home since the start of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 We last won away in the first week in December at The Blades and we were so lucky to win that one, they stuffed us. From then on we have hardly had a shot on target in the majority of away games....an unbelievable fall from grace....I’m genuinely dumbfounded and astounded...two words I never thought I’d ever say in the same day....just can’t fathom what has happened to our away form....it’s been pathetic, yet “we are progressing” apparently...the people who endorse that on here need to have a long, hard look.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 I hope someone finally finds the answer so we don’t have to put up this the same thread for the whole summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, DaveF said: I hope someone finally finds the answer so we don’t have to put up this the same thread for the whole summer... Indeed (and guilty!) just thought it was interesting in that it's not our form as a whole which has collapsed (which seems to be the perception amongst some) it's our away form that has. (And hence worth posting as a slightly different angle)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, steveybadger said: Apologies in advance if this has been covered (and yes it's a bit of another postmortem), but just looking at some stats from this season which really tell a story: First, 2017 home form: w-d-l 7-3-3 then 2018 4-3-2 so a slight decline in points per game, but not major. Now 2017 away w-d-l 6-5-1 top 2 form then 2018 W-d-l. 0-5-6 fell off a cliff. so it's pretty clear where the problem lies - away from home. I've not been away this season so my question is, what has changed away from home since the start of the year? Tactics from our super leader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, nickolas said: Tactics from our super leader! Ok, so what was he doing so well in the first part of the season that he ain't now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 There is a reason why 4-4-2 is dying out at this level and particularly among the better sides However, what puzzles me is that LJ is a modern manager, up to date- clued up. When he joined, I thought he'd be like GJ in terms of his good points, but better tactically, sharper. Yet this crap 4-4-2- fully agree @JonDolman 3 in midfield is the way forward. We don't even have to necessarily sit back and defend with a 4-3-3, but mix and match. Having said that though, GJ's 4-4-1-1 in the promotion season carried over into the first half of playoff season and seen at varied points of the second half with Noble behind Byfield or Trundle? Masterstroke, well ahead of it's time at this level 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, steveybadger said: Ok, so what was he doing so well in the first part of the season that he ain't now? Panicking under pressure and being too bloody ‘technical’, just like last season. All this buggering about with players out of position is madness. For whatever reason we’ve had a different mindset this year away. Just an average ( rather than shit ) away form wouldve seen us perched nicely inside top 6. Hopefully LJ can fathom this out over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 1 hour ago, JonDolman said: Just play one extra midfielder. How many teams play two up top at Ashton Ashton gate? Not many. Why can't we just concentrate on defending and hitting teams on the break? Why does Johnson only ever want to chase every ball from the first minute? Be versatile Johnson. We're just doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results. Today was a great opportunity to try something different. A rare free game to experiment. Even if we get it right last game of the season, it won't fill us with any confidence going into next seasons away matches. It wasnt a free game, even the whole management teamwere waffling on about standing a chance for top 6, just like loads on here! weve been shot for weeks. Sheff Utd match should see Kelly at CB, elliasson lw or rw and perhaps even brownhill in cm. however, none of the above will happen for no reason known to anyone bar LJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 I watched about 60 minutes today, and I thought we looked compact for the 10 minutes before half time. Other than that, too deep, too much distance between our three groups. We look an absolute joy to play against, we get passed around because we aren’t compact. The ball goes from their RB on the halfway line, inside and back to their CB or withdrawn CM, who under no pressure pings a ball to their LM 30-40 yards out, one on one versus our RB. 2 effin passes and a chance to get at our full-back. I don’t see two banks of 4 behind the ball when we defend, aviary from that 10 minute spell when Reid dropped in. Our wide midfielders aren’t helping the full-backs. They don’t defend as a unit. I can’t believe how easy we make it. Is that a failing of 442? Is that a failing of a desire to work hard? Is it a failing of how our players are asked to play? Are our CBs to deep in the early phase of the opposition attack, so we can’t get into a compact shape, leaving huge spaces to create 2v1s, it 3v2s? Its tough to get a clear picture from a tv camera....so open to suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: There is a reason why 4-4-2 is dying out at this level and particularly among the better sides However, what puzzles me is that LJ is a modern manager, up to date- clued up. When he joined, I thought he'd be like GJ in terms of his good points, but better tactically, sharper. Yet this crap 4-4-2- fully agree @JonDolman 3 in midfield is the way forward. We don't even have to necessarily sit back and defend with a 4-3-3, but mix and match. Having said that though, GJ's 4-4-1-1 in the promotion season carried over into the first half of playoff season and seen at varied points of the second half with Noble behind Byfield or Trundle? Masterstroke, well ahead of it's time at this level 10 years ago. I kinda agree. We looked at our best in Nov / Dec after Fammy got injured. However we still won at least 3 of those 6 away games with either him or Milan up top with Bobby, I.e 4-4-2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I watched about 60 minutes today, and I thought we looked compact for the 10 minutes before half time. Other than that, too deep, too much distance between our three groups. We look an absolute joy to play against, we get passed around because we aren’t compact. The ball goes from their RB on the halfway line, inside and back to their CB or withdrawn CM, who under no pressure pings a ball to their LM 30-40 yards out, one on one versus our RB. 2 effin passes and a chance to get at our full-back. I don’t see two banks of 4 behind the ball when we defend, aviary from that 10 minute spell when Reid dropped in. Our wide midfielders aren’t helping the full-backs. They don’t defend as a unit. I can’t believe how easy we make it. Is that a failing of 442? Is that a failing of a desire to work hard? Is it a failing of how our players are asked to play? Are our CBs to deep in the early phase of the opposition attack, so we can’t get into a compact shape, leaving huge spaces to create 2v1s, it 3v2s? Its tough to get a clear picture from a tv camera....so open to suggestions. My feeling from earlier games is that we worked really hard to stop teams getting near our goal, and when the ball came in we were pretty dominant, especially in the air. Despite that the best we've played is with Bob on his own and good movement behind him, but maybe we simply haven't had sufficient quality resources outside of that preferred 11-14 to change and rest the team? And here's a sacrilegious thought, Bobby will go in the summer but playing Fam on his own with say a rejeuvanated Patto behind him might not be too bad, if we can replace Fam during a game with similar quality....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 Ole is the man to answer this question, perhaps we need to summarise all of his away match reports for the same time period and get the information to the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, steveybadger said: I kinda agree. We looked at our best in Nov / Dec after Fammy got injured. However we still won at least 3 of those 6 away games with either him or Milan up top with Bobby, I.e 4-4-2? That's a fair point- just think we're too easy- particularly on the road- to play against with this set up. At Hull, we made tactical changes during the game. At Fulham we played 4-4-1-1 at Sheffield United... Trying to think of the other games. Sunderland definitely a 4-4-2 that's for sure, obviously Reading and Ipswich 4-4-2. Any other wins I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: That's a fair point- just think we're too easy- particularly on the road- to play against with this set up. At Hull, we made tactical changes during the game. At Fulham we played 4-4-1-1 at Sheffield United... Trying to think of the other games. Sunderland definitely a 4-4-2 that's for sure, obviously Reading and Ipswich 4-4-2. Any other wins I missed? Nope that's the lot. As another post of mine says, suspect it's a combo of work rate / squad quality off the bench that has seen us fizzle out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted April 28, 2018 Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, steveybadger said: Nope that's the lot. As another post of mine says, suspect it's a combo of work rate / squad quality off the bench that has seen us fizzle out. Wouldn't surprise. Though I do think some of the bench options under utilised at key times- this IMO was a contributory factor and hastened the burnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 11 hours ago, steveybadger said: Ok, so what was he doing so well in the first part of the season that he ain't now? The high press. Thats gone. We now sit back and invite pressure. Simple really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flounder Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 In particular it’s the inability to beat teams the start with the letter B away.... Bolton Barnsley Burton For a promotion chasing team these games should have been easy pickings. Instead we got just 1 point. Can’t help looking at the Championship table and adding 8 points to our total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 Form table says we're Mid-table in home form and mid-table in away form, we finished mid-table... Away form isn't an issue, form in general is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted April 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Spike said: Form table says we're Mid-table in home form and mid-table in away form, we finished mid-table... Away form isn't an issue, form in general is. Not sure I agree, away form was close to top of form table and we were near the top overall, then close to bottom and we've dropped 8 or so places. Home form hasn't seen such a collapse. Anyway hope it can be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 19 hours ago, DaveF said: I hope someone finally finds the answer so we don’t have to put up this the same thread for the whole summer... Wishful thinking.. you just know its gonna rumble on and on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 20 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: We last won away in the first week in December at The Blades and we were so lucky to win that one, they stuffed us. From then on we have hardly had a shot on target in the majority of away games....an unbelievable fall from grace....I’m genuinely dumbfounded and astounded...two words I never thought I’d ever say in the same day....just can’t fathom what has happened to our away form....it’s been pathetic, yet “we are progressing” apparently...the people who endorse that on here need to have a long, hard look.... Well said... Progress my arse, anyone who thinks this needs their heads reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 Personally I think looking back at our early season points tally away from home; we were flattering to deceive. I went to the Brentford and Wolves games and we were absolutely battered in both and very lucky to escape without defeats. Two other games that stick in the mind are Hull and Sheffield United away. Again, in both we had fortune on our side. We were dreadful at Hull for 70 mins and should've been 4 or 5 down but pulled a freak win out of the bag late on. The Blades again destroyed us in the first half (hit the woodwork 2 or 3 times?) and then we really lucked out when their player got sent off for that daft tackle and went on to win. I wasn't at Reading but apparently we were poor in a 1-0 win there too. Credit where it's due - we fully deserved the wins at Ipswich and Fulham. We have been worse away from home in 2018 than 2017 for sure, but looking back I'm not convinced we were THAT good last year as I've demonstrated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Personally I think looking back at our early season points tally away from home; we were flattering to deceive. I went to the Brentford and Wolves games and we were absolutely battered in both and very lucky to escape without defeats. Two other games that stick in the mind are Hull and Sheffield United away. Again, in both we had fortune on our side. We were dreadful at Hull for 70 mins and should've been 4 or 5 down but pulled a freak win out of the bag late on. The Blades again destroyed us in the first half (hit the woodwork 2 or 3 times?) and then we really lucked out when their player got sent off for that daft tackle and went on to win. I wasn't at Reading but apparently we were poor in a 1-0 win there too. Credit where it's due - we fully deserved the wins at Ipswich and Fulham. We have been worse away from home in 2018 than 2017 for sure, but looking back I'm not convinced we were THAT good last year as I've demonstrated above. Probably true (I don’t do away games these days, so this is all just a hunch). We have though become markedly easier to play through as the season has progressed, poorer results have lead to lower confidence (as shown in our inability to come back from 1 down, which we quite regularly did early in the season) and although injuries have also been a factor, there has also been a lot more chopping and changing of selection away from home. Cardiff away for instance, Diony given his only start and that sort of baffling selection isn’t an isolated one. The other thing is, we seem to have lost our game plan, the zippy, one touch stuff we played in the win at Fulham & memorably at Man City has gone. It is as if the management have lost confidence in it, so the players have, too. As it seems the summer will see a number of departures let’s hope there is a re-think of our strategy for next time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcityfan Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 21 hours ago, steveybadger said: Ok, so what was he doing so well in the first part of the season that he ain't now? I'm not sure he was. I think after the Man Utd game McAllister gave him back the wheel and said you can drive again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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