Johnson on sound of the city with twentyman

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, TRL said:

Well Preston sold their leader to us and we made him captain. He was a free wasn't he? Came through their youth ranks after they took a punt on him

It is a good point. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

With the 'Blueprint' that we have set out by the Club, wouldn't any manager following that 'Blueprint', have found himself in the same position BBSB?

Granted they may have found different loans etc...and maybe played differently.

But with the squad with have, all those injuries, and the 'blueprint' being followed....then our 'outcome' was inevitable.

Like many including yourself i'm seriously questioning our recruitment and judgement on players, but any manager we have following SL's blueprint is going to find things hard to start with.

I'm hoping this long term strategy will come into fruition in the next couple seasons...I wasn't expecting anything this, or the next one tbh....as the long term strategy doesn't really point to top 6 very soon.

The reality is, if we blood the young talent coming through like Kelly, Vyner, Morrell etc....then they won't be top 6 quality any time soon. They will make mistakes and will be gaining experience in this division.

We need experience and leaders...that is true.

We may have players that have now gained experience...but none of them are leaders imo.

All too 'nice' and placid.

It's all very well having a nice group of lads to work with....but you need leaders on the pitch for those 90 mins...I haven't seen any at our club for a long time. GoN was the nearest to that. I'm not talking about players who are aggressive by nature...but who can manage situations on the pitch, who can be vocal, organise and take situations by the scruff of the neck.

As it stands now...when things are going wrong, they all look like rabbits in headlights.

Agree with virtually all of that

But

If LJ is buying into a structure or ethos that has serious flaws and where he has to take the blame for the shortcomings of others then.......I’m afraid I may sound harsh ........but that’s his problem

Hes highly paid in a privliged role and if he doesn’t realise the wheels are coming off or that the plan or structure has flaws which he’s copping for then he needs to accept the flak , grow a pair and speak up , or walk 

[Cowshed]

17 minutes ago, TRL said:

Exactly. But it's all communication, be it verbal or non verbal. If you cannot communicate ivisibly or verbally you shouldn't be in the team.

That is a little different to what I was implying. Communication breaks down in football teams because of various reasons - Role conflicts, role changes, stress and others, but also by assumption. Assumption by the Manager that the players are thoroughly prepared and know what they are doing. That is task cohesion through repetition - Managing and coaching.

Mr Johnson complains that after tens of millions spent, thirty plus signings he has no leaders. Leaders can be looked upon not as shouters and screamers but as players who continue to carry out tasks cohesively whatever. Mentally tough (and possibly quiet) is another way of describing leaders.

This mental toughness is part of knowing what you are doing, being prepared tactically, technically, physically and thus emotionally which leads to better communication.

Eleven players cannot be poor at communication. A back four cannot all be poor at communication. If they are it is a Managerial issue and his skills at fault. 

 

[CotswoldRed]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

That is a little different to what I was implying. Communication breaks down in football teams because of various reasons - Role conflicts, role changes, stress and others, but also by assumption. Assumption by the Manager that the players are thoroughly prepared and know what they are doing. That is task cohesion through repetition - Managing and coaching.

Mr Johnson complains that after tens of millions spent, thirty plus signings he has no leaders. Leaders can be looked upon not as shouters and screamers but as players who continue to carry out tasks cohesively whatever. Mental toughness is another way of describing leaders.

This mental toughness is part of knowing what you are doing, being prepared tactically, technically, physically and thus emotionally which leads to better communication.

Eleven players cannot be poor at communication. A back four cannot all be poor at communication. If they are it is a Managerial issue and his skills at fault. 

 

He said they a had a meeting and collectively came to the conclusion that communication was the issue.

I'm gonna guess the blame was laid upon them and they had to agree to it. Just the impression I get. 

I'm not convinced the coaching is anywhere near good enough.

If a coach says "right, go and score" you can't blame the players for not scoring, just because that's what the players were told to do. 

I'm reading too much into this one single point, but something doesn't sit right with me at all. 

[INCRED]

1 hour ago, TRL said:

Defence is all about communication. If you don't communicate you are in real trouble and you most certainly cannot play offside if for instance,your back is facing the rest of the players your team mates have to communicate to get you in the correct position.

 

I thought the communication bit was pretty self explanatory... and if the players are not doing it you have to question why.

I find it hard to understand that a team of professional players are not capable of communicating with each other on the pitch!

Do they not talk to each other when they train, did they stop communicating half way through the season and that’s why our form dropped off a cliff

No, of course not Lee! You and your coaching team either failed to motivate them or your tactics were wrong. If the players can not adapt to what you want them to do then move them on. If you cannot motivate them and apply the correct tactics then perhaps you need to consider what’s best for the club???

[h hills left shoe]

28 minutes ago, Maggersno1Fan said:

FFP can be gotten around...............

Exactly! Other clubs have done this. 

[Alessandro]

12 hours ago, Olé said:

I know you have a reputation for being particularly down on LJ & co, but you captured very well here what's nagging at me from that interview.

I was struck by the number of times Johnson had an answer, but still felt the need to add in an excuse too - I listed a few in my first response.

He gave himself an out with every answer. There was no substantive confidence in answers - just deflection and room to excuse future failure.

That's probably the worst takeaway. No lines were drawn, no new targets of expectations set. LJ's narrative epitomises City's soft underbelly.

Always looks to create a storyline that reduces expectations, accepts failure. Why couldn't we be bold? Smaller more limited clubs manage it.

I think a point that seems to have been missed on this thread - perhaps the club are finally toning down the promotion rhetoric?

It’s all about expectations - LJ has been very bullish in the past, talk of “premier league club in training”, “Europe in 5 years” all quotes that have been used against him by many on here and raised the fans expectations. Now people are annoyed he isn’t saying similar things again for next season?

People say he doesn’t learn from his mistakes - well perhaps he is on the media front - and just readjusting everyone’s expectations?

Could be a JL policy? SL has always been overly bullish too.

 

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

He said they a had a meeting and collectively came to the conclusion that communication was the issue.

I'm gonna guess the blame was laid upon them and they had to agree to it. Just the impression I get. 

I'm not convinced the coaching is anywhere near good enough.

If a coach says "right, go and score" you can't blame the players for not scoring, just because that's what the players were told to do. 

I'm reading too much into this one single point, but something doesn't sit right with me at all. 

And that is quite a modern but not unusual approach. 

It still requires feedback and evaluation, continuity of training, team talks, implementation and at the centre of that is Lee Johnson. It is a reflection of his Management.

[ooRya]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

 

The constant baracking of him on this forum by individuals is getting very tiresome, and must make some threads unreadable at times for anyone who has a sense of optimism about the club.  Given that Lee isn't going anywhere, isn't it time to stop the constant sniping and give the geezer a break?

This. Oh, very much this!

[RedM]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The constant soundbites about injuries

Well apologies to his apologists But I’ll repeat again

If injuries and lack of ‘options’ as our Head Coach Claims had an impact , perhaps he’d like to reflect and explain , was that because HE had packed the squad out as players put aside as ones for the future , ones he’d signed but didn’t trust , loans HE signed and then decided weren’t up to it, and expensive ones HE signed who were shipped out on loan  

Unbelievable That Some on here don’t even seem to consider such things

Yup, I’m pretty fed up hearing about injuries too. Yes it was a factor but not the only reason, and as you and others have said we played our best football when we had players out injured. Preston have been mentioned several times on this and other threads, their injury crisis was as bad or worse than ours this season, they lost loads of key players very early on and at times were playing youth or failing to name a full bench of subs I believe. Maybe they had better luck with their returning as they certainly finished stronger and missed the playoffs by only 2 points on the last day.

 

At Millwall, who have also been mentioned several times, outside the ground I overheard one of their fans after looking at the back of their programme commenting about what a huge squad we had to chose from compared to their list of names. I guess this would also apply to Preston, I doubt if they had £2m players waiting in the wings during their crisis, and say once again they did better than us. 

Maybe it is down to managerial experience, Preston had Grayson poached by Sunderland last summer and went for proven Alex Neil, he’s a young manager. Neil Harris of Millwall isn’t vastly experienced, both managered better with less to work with than was at Lee’s disposal. Lee could do well to look at them as I’m sure next season he will be faced with having to produce more with less too.

[ScottishRed]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

With the 'Blueprint' that we have set out by the Club, wouldn't any manager following that 'Blueprint', have found himself in the same position BBSB?

Granted they may have found different loans etc...and maybe played differently.

But with the squad with have, all those injuries, and the 'blueprint' being followed....then our 'outcome' was inevitable.

Like many including yourself i'm seriously questioning our recruitment and judgement on players, but any manager we have following SL's blueprint is going to find things hard to start with.

I'm hoping this long term strategy will come into fruition in the next couple seasons...I wasn't expecting anything this, or the next one tbh....as the long term strategy doesn't really point to top 6 very soon.

The reality is, if we blood the young talent coming through like Kelly, Vyner, Morrell etc....then they won't be top 6 quality any time soon. They will make mistakes and will be gaining experience in this division.

We need experience and leaders...that is true.

We may have players that have now gained experience...but none of them are leaders imo.

All too 'nice' and placid.

It's all very well having a nice group of lads to work with....but you need leaders on the pitch for those 90 mins...I haven't seen any at our club for a long time. GoN was the nearest to that. I'm not talking about players who are aggressive by nature...but who can manage situations on the pitch, who can be vocal, organise and take situations by the scruff of the neck.

As it stands now...when things are going wrong, they all look like rabbits in headlights.

The comments about leaders are spot on.

My very strong suspicion is that the current HC would have difficulties with those type of individuals hence we don’t have or are unlikely to have any of those anytime soon.

[Mr Popodopolous]

44 minutes ago, Maggersno1Fan said:

FFP can be gotten around...............

 

15 minutes ago, h hills left shoe said:

Exactly! Other clubs have done this. 

If we include Wolves, they are a fairly special case. We could hire a superagent- but SL doesn't like agents fees (even though IMO it would be spending a bit to gain a whack).

Wolves aside, how do we propose it? The Football League have really started clamping down and submission of projected accounts could- and I stress could if enforced properly- be a game changer.

It can be gotten around? Ask Bolton- look at their squad and transfer restrictions at times this season.

It consisted of:

• Not allowed to pay transfer fees.
• Not allowed to pay loan fees.
• A maximum salary of £4,500 per week for new signings.
• A squad size limited to 23.
• No loans allowed which last over 6 months.

How the hell do you compete if you can only pay at this level a new signing £4,500 per week at most??

 Also as part of it, 4 Under 23 players were obviously classed as counting towards maximum squad size, so were unfortunately restricted to playing for the Under 23's.

Tell us, how you get around that set of punishments as part of the overarching embargo? That said, the restrictions on loaning out Under 23's seemed pretty gratuitous IMO.

Secondly, the Football League are looking to make an example of someone over FFP. Now we're actually well away from breaking it IMO so could push the boat out a bit, but would it be our luck if they made an example of us in say 2 years if we went over? When the new regs were fully understood and had time to filter through to all.

[spudski]

51 minutes ago, INCRED said:

I find it hard to understand that a team of professional players are not capable of communicating with each other on the pitch!

Do they not talk to each other when they train, did they stop communicating half way through the season and that’s why our form dropped off a cliff

No, of course not Lee! You and your coaching team either failed to motivate them or your tactics were wrong. If the players can not adapt to what you want them to do then move them on. If you cannot motivate them and apply the correct tactics then perhaps you need to consider what’s best for the club???

Whilst not wanting to tar everyone with the same brush, communication as most of us know it is actually becoming a problem with the younger generation. I've seen it myself when coaching...the younger generation struggle to communicate and get their point across, are less likely to react to constructive criticism well and poor at telling others what to do. Not all...but it's become noticeable. Give em an app or a phone and they are fine, such is the way these days.

[Robin Ashton]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I certainly heard him talk about injuries, the inability to rotate the squad as result, players having to play too many games as a result (didn't he say that Brownhill and Smith had played amongst the most minutes in Europe?), players coming back from injuries being a shadow of their former selves, and the failure of the loan signings in the January transfer window.  He also talked about the mentality that led to us losing leads, much of which, having watched the videos and talked to the players, came down to a lack of communication.

He had other players available. He chose not to play them.

[Redrascal2]

Usual load of excuses on why the January transfer window was such a failure. Other clubs face the same problems but find a way to handle it. How long can he trot out this rubbish before even he gets fed up with it. He said we did the best we could. Well if that's the best then heaven help us.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

Usual load of excuses on why the January transfer window was such a failure. Other clubs face the same problems but find a way to handle it. How long can he trot out this rubbish before even he gets fed up with it. He said we did the best we could. Well if that's the best then heaven help us.

I agree that he made excuses for the January transfer window being a failure, but the question is whether they are valid excuses.  It strikes me that the clubs that manage to do well out of the January transfer window are those with money, who can pay the inflated wage demands and fees required to prise away the few decent players who are available.  The rest (which I suppose includes us) either go for lower quality at a cheaper price, or take a gamble on what is available.  We did the latter and failed.  Fair enough.  What is the answer?  Who would you have signed in the January transfer window who could have helped us keep on track?  It's a genuine question, because I simply have no idea who was available who we would have been able to get.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Robin Ashton said:

He had other players available. He chose not to play them.

Well I suppose so, but the players available but not getting a game from January onwards seem to consist of Eliason, Engvall, Kelly, Steele, Vyner (if we hadn't sent him on loan), Woodrow and Walsh.  Were they the solution?  Who else was fit in January through to March, but not getting a game?

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

The comments about leaders are spot on.

My very strong suspicion is that the current HC would have difficulties with those type of individuals hence we don’t have or are unlikely to have any of those anytime soon.

The club culture appears to be in the likeness of Uncle Steve , he doesn't like nasty winners in the ranks upsetting the status quo . 

We have to have a lovely fluffy family image to attract the money .

Snarling , spitting warriors is not required please . 

 

[Olé]

5 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Our collapse was due to:

1. Injuries.

2. Pisano's struggle with the lingo.

3. The crowd during Kent's first games.

4. LJ not being able to see what Bobby was doing at Millwall.

5. His leaders were injured, so no leadership.

6. Diony. He didn't work out. For "whatever reason." Possibly injured/language difficulties/the crowd/he couldn't see what Bobby was doing.

Couple of points of order @Jack Dawe 

You missed: 

7. There is no league in the world like the Championship where one minute you're playing Brentford, who play total football if you like, and the next week you're playing Cardiff, who want to kick you.

(God forbid teams have different tactics. Imagine a league where that happens. Can't they make it easy for us and play the same way every time).

Also you mistakenly included #5 about leadership. If I recall, GT asked him about his prior remark about leadership and it sounded like he withdrew the excuse (probably on reflection fearing having to actually manage one) by rattling off a list of current players who could be leaders, despite for whatever reason not yet managing it. Even by LJ's standards that is peak LJ, excusing the excuse with another excuse, net effect nothing is going to change.

[Olé]

5 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

If injuries and lack of ‘options’ as our Head Coach Claims had an impact , perhaps he’d like to reflect and explain , was that because HE had packed the squad out as players put aside as ones for the future , ones he’d signed but didn’t trust , loans HE signed and then decided weren’t up to it, and expensive ones HE signed who were shipped out on loan

Quite - and it's interesting that the season before last we struggled because he frequently chopped and changed the team, and this season we have struggled because he wasn't able to change the team (or didn't trust his other options). Very easy for us with hindsight to pick on both failings, and I imagine LJ would say he's damned if he does, or damned if he doesn't, but here's where those excuses unravel - BOTH are ultimately failings of the same problem: his and MA's recruitment. If players we recruited were up to it, he could have changed the team sufficiently in either case.

Recruitment was the most poorly addressed subject in the interview yesterday. Responses were blasé, contradictory and not even close to answers.

As a reminder - after 2.5 years, his 3 transfer windows and nearly 20-30 players, the spine of the team are still all players that pre-date LJ and MA. Also I imagine if you took a straw poll, the common view of our most 4 valuable/saleable/highest quality players in the team (with all due respect to Brownhill) are also all ones that pre-date the LJ/MA. Surely in 2.5 years his recruitment could have put at least one player in that realm. It is an appalling return and was brushed off completely. He actually said he had "his team" last summer: perhaps the new "excuse" will be his team being broken up this summer. 

[Redrascal2]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I agree that he made excuses for the January transfer window being a failure, but the question is whether they are valid excuses.  It strikes me that the clubs that manage to do well out of the January transfer window are those with money, who can pay the inflated wage demands and fees required to prise away the few decent players who are available.  The rest (which I suppose includes us) either go for lower quality at a cheaper price, or take a gamble on what is available.  We did the latter and failed.  Fair enough.  What is the answer?  Who would you have signed in the January transfer window who could have helped us keep on track?  It's a genuine question, because I simply have no idea who was available who we would have been able to get.

Surely the point is we pay LJ and the management team , I imagine a very good wage, to handle signings in January. I have no idea who was available, the costs involved or the mechanics involved. I do not feel that is a problem as I am not employed to do this. Lee is. The other issue is a constant one we hear that we can't afford or  compete with clubs due to the money they can spend. Then do what Bristol Rugby did a few weeks ago. They signed 7 of the best players from the league they have been promoted from. Young and hungry players with a point to prove.Just don't tell us as LJ did at the end of January that we had had a good transfer window, when clearly it was a hopeless one.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, Redrascal2 said:

Surely the point is we pay LJ and the management team , I imagine a very good wage, to handle signings in January. I have no idea who was available, the costs involved or the mechanics involved. I do not feel that is a problem as I am not employed to do this. Lee is. The other issue is a constant one we hear that we can't afford or  compete with clubs due to the money they can spend. Then do what Bristol Rugby did a few weeks ago. They signed 7 of the best players from the league they have been promoted from. Young and hungry players with a point to prove.Just don't tell us as LJ did at the end of January that we had had a good transfer window, when clearly it was a hopeless one.

I agree, that LJ and teh team are paid to sign decent players (though whether it's us who pays for that is rather a moot point), but I didn't see many players moving in January who I thought "Why didn't we sign them?".  Matt Targett from Southampton to Fulham perhaps, but all the significant deals would have been way out of our price bracket.  The January window seems a complete lottery and some you get right, some you don't. 

My point was just that it is easy to say with hindsight that someone got things wrong, but I do wonder what the alternative was for us.  On paper, both Diony and Kent seemed very reasonable signings in January.  Could we really have signed seven of the best players from League One?  What League One club sells their best players in January?  Two years ago bringing in Tomlin, Matthews and Odemwingie really paid dividends; last season Matty Taylor and David Cotterill paid off, the rest far less so; this year we know was a flop.  We can't expect miracles in January - I may be wrong, but my impression is that few January transfer signings pay off big time, especially loans.

[BRISTOLCITY26]

The comments on here are a bit OTT in my opinion.

 

We obviously have a good young manager well respected in the game, well respected enough for Pep Guardiola to ask him football related questions. He's honest to a point, and protects the club and players interests, which is what any good manager does.

 

The capitulation in the second half of the season obviously wasn't good enough, but we have a decent owner, a young hungry manager, a good squad of players and some exciting new youth talent hopefully baring fruit.

 

It's easy to take a negative out of everything but i think we could just as easily take positives out of a lot of things he says, just depends on whether you like him or not.

[RumRed]

If January is so bloody difficult why not do the business to push on done in the summer?  Start with a squad with depth and quality that can see you through the whole season?  

[Redstreet]

7 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

It's a Rubiks Cube. 

Finally listened. Wish I hadn't. Didn't learn a thing. 

One thing stood out - GT asked him (I paraphrase) "you've banged on about learning from Pep and Jose, what did you actually learn?" 

His answer confirmed he learned absolutely nothing. 

He must be Ashton's golden child though. Deflection, saying lots and saying absolutely nothing. Generic platitudes without substance. Promising nothing. No specific deliverables. No particular timescales. Nothing to hang any sort of hat on (I'm doing it now!) 

Our deep thinker has very little to offer the man in the street when it comes to explaining how he wants to play football. 

Words words words.

He's more at home in a management consultancy than football management. 

Just once when he said "d'ya know what I mean" to GT I wish he'd responded "Well, no". 

Gary Rowett after Derby lost last night was honest , straight to the point and clear and detailed as to what contributed to their loss . So refreshingly honest and cliche free . Respect to the guy . The LJ  interview was a consultancy type power point , full of words , no clarity . When LJ was describing scouting for players activities  , he emphasised spreadsheets.  Performance data and video footage . Fair enough , technology now used but actually watching and judging players . Not enough said on that . I thought GT was good but not pressing enough on some issues

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Redstreet said:

Gary Rowett after Derby lost last night was honest , straight to the point and clear and detailed as to what contributed to their loss . So refreshingly honest and cliche free . Respect to the guy . The LJ  interview was a consultancy type power point , full of words , no clarity . When LJ was describing scouting for players activities  , he emphasised spreadsheets.  Performance data and video footage . Fair enough , technology now used but actually watching and judging players . Not enough said on that . I thought GT was good but not pressing enough on some issues

Good points

Or simplifying it - name the last manager you heard come out with the soundbites cliches and riddles that LJ does

I am struggling to name one (There’s a few slightly off the wall like Carvalhal But all the corporate cliches and waffle - I seriously can’t think of one)

Tell you what , if he speaks in front of players that way he will get glazed eyes , lots of smirks and a lot of piss taking in his absence 

[Cowshed]

55 minutes ago, Olé said:

Quite - and it's interesting that the season before last we struggled because he frequently chopped and changed the team, and this season we have struggled because he wasn't able to change the team (or didn't trust his other options). Very easy for us with hindsight to pick on both failings, and I imagine LJ would say he's damned if he does, or damned if he doesn't, but here's where those excuses unravel - BOTH are ultimately failings of the same problem: his and MA's recruitment. If players we recruited were up to it, he could have changed the team sufficiently in either case.

Recruitment was the most poorly addressed subject in the interview yesterday. Responses were blasé, contradictory and not even close to answers.

As a reminder - after 2.5 years, his 3 transfer windows and nearly 20-30 players, the spine of the team are still all players that pre-date LJ and MA. Also I imagine if you took a straw poll, the common view of our most 4 valuable/saleable/highest quality players in the team (with all due respect to Brownhill) are also all ones that pre-date the LJ/MA. Surely in 2.5 years his recruitment could have put at least one player in that realm. It is an appalling return and was brushed off completely. He actually said he had "his team" last summer: perhaps the new "excuse" will be his team being broken up this summer. 

Lee Johnson did change the team, unless you believe its approach was consistent throughout the season. It was not.

In coaching circles there is a school of though that teams go through cycles to build cohesion.

One of these cycles is forming. Players are gathered, purchased to fit a playing style. What can follow is storming where conflicts arise where players cannot adjust, adapt to the style - Tomlin maybe. Next is norming, then performing where players are at ease within the approach and understand the teams identity.

Two words above feature. Approach and identity. After 2.5 years it should be possible to understand what Lee Johnsons approach and identity is. After 2.5 years Lee Johnson is still at stage one - Forming. His team have achieved. His teams have nosedive, but virtually no supporter can tell you want sort of team Bristol City really are.

[ScottishRed]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

If we include Wolves, they are a fairly special case. We could hire a superagent- but SL doesn't like agents fees (even though IMO it would be spending a bit to gain a whack).

Wolves aside, how do we propose it? The Football League have really started clamping down and submission of projected accounts could- and I stress could if enforced properly- be a game changer.

It can be gotten around? Ask Bolton- look at their squad and transfer restrictions at times this season.

It consisted of:

• Not allowed to pay transfer fees.
• Not allowed to pay loan fees.
• A maximum salary of £4,500 per week for new signings.
• A squad size limited to 23.
• No loans allowed which last over 6 months.

How the hell do you compete if you can only pay at this level a new signing £4,500 per week at most??

 Also as part of it, 4 Under 23 players were obviously classed as counting towards maximum squad size, so were unfortunately restricted to playing for the Under 23's.

Tell us, how you get around that set of punishments as part of the overarching embargo? That said, the restrictions on loaning out Under 23's seemed pretty gratuitous IMO.

Secondly, the Football League are looking to make an example of someone over FFP. Now we're actually well away from breaking it IMO so could push the boat out a bit, but would it be our luck if they made an example of us in say 2 years if we went over? When the new regs were fully understood and had time to filter through to all.

They are ‘trying’ the make an example of QPR - that is not going to well.

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

They are ‘trying’ the make an example of QPR - that is not going to well.

Problem with the QPR situation is the fine would bankrupt the club- once QPR have exhausted all legal options they will have to pay. just a question of how.

A difference too is the rules were different and chopping and changing then- less so now, therefore less room for manoeuvre.

Read about Bolton's sanctions in the post I provided- no wriggle room there.

[Gert Mare]

GT: So what is the biggest lesson that you have learnt this season?

LJ: To get a better life balance.

**** all about the tactics and that every time we play Korey Smith at Right Back we get totally over-run in the middle of the park, or that moving Bobby back into midfield and subbing Fammy for a winger pretty much kills off any chance we have of scoring? Tell you what, sling Flint up front to make up for it and totally expose the back line as well?!!!!

Doesn’t fill me with confidence to go along with being unable to communicate!

[CotswoldRed]

3 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

GT: So what is the biggest lesson that you have learnt this season?

LJ: To get a better life balance.

**** all about the tactics and that every time we play Korey Smith at Right Back we get totally over-run in the middle of the park, or that moving Bobby back into midfield and subbing Fammy for a winger pretty much kills off any chance we have of scoring? Tell you what, sling Flint up front to make up for it and totally expose the back line as well?!!!!

Doesn’t fill me with confidence to go along with being unable to communicate!

Don't worry, GT was with you on that I reckon. 

Reminded me of the standard job interview response.... 

"what is your greatest weakness?" 

"I just try/work too hard". 

[Gert Mare]

7 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Don't worry, GT was with you on that I reckon. 

Reminded me of the standard job interview response.... 

"what is your greatest weakness?" 

"I just try/work too hard". 

Well you would have thought the first thing he should have said was I need to sort out communication in order to stop these half a season implosions wouldn’t you? It has happened every season for the last 4 seasons with Lee Johnson.

Colin said whatever you do, never lose 2 games on the trot. Play ugly if you need to, but the psychological impact of losing games is huge, likewise it also works in a positive manner when you are in good form (I.e. First half of this season). 

[redordead1]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Lee Johnson did change the team, unless you believe its approach was consistent throughout the season. It was not.

In coaching circles there is a school of though that teams go through cycles to build cohesion.

One of these cycles is forming. Players are gathered, purchased to fit a playing style. What can follow is storming where conflicts arise where players cannot adjust, adapt to the style - Tomlin maybe. Next is norming, then performing where players are at ease within the approach and understand the teams identity.

Two words above feature. Approach and identity. After 2.5 years it should be possible to understand what Lee Johnsons approach and identity is. After 2.5 years Lee Johnson is still at stage one - Forming. His team have achieved. His teams have nosedive, but virtually no supporter can tell you want sort of team Bristol City really are.

Great post. There is no evidence of building a team to a certain style, no identity, no YoY progression etc.. As you quite rightly say, the reality is that none of us have any idea what style of football we will see next season. Could you ever say the same of any decent manager at any level, be it Pep, Fergusson, Warnock or Gradi?

His actions mimic his approach to interviews and his communication in general. He tries to cover all eventualities,  but delivers no clarity of thought whatsoever. 

[CotswoldRed]

3 minutes ago, redordead1 said:

Great post. There is no evidence of building a team to a certain style, no identity, no YoY progression etc.. As you quite rightly say, the reality is that none of us have any idea what style of football we will see next season. Could you ever say the same of any decent manager at any level, be it Pep, Fergusson, Warnock or Gradi?

His actions mimic his approach to interviews and his communication in general. He tries to cover all eventualities,  but delivers no clarity of thought whatsoever. 

That's funny.... he mentioned clarity quite a bit. 

[Redrascal2]

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I agree, that LJ and teh team are paid to sign decent players (though whether it's us who pays for that is rather a moot point), but I didn't see many players moving in January who I thought "Why didn't we sign them?".  Matt Targett from Southampton to Fulham perhaps, but all the significant deals would have been way out of our price bracket.  The January window seems a complete lottery and some you get right, some you don't. 

My point was just that it is easy to say with hindsight that someone got things wrong, but I do wonder what the alternative was for us.  On paper, both Diony and Kent seemed very reasonable signings in January.  Could we really have signed seven of the best players from League One?  What League One club sells their best players in January?  Two years ago bringing in Tomlin, Matthews and Odemwingie really paid dividends; last season Matty Taylor and David Cotterill paid off, the rest far less so; this year we know was a flop.  We can't expect miracles in January - I may be wrong, but my impression is that few January transfer signings pay off big time, especially loans.

I was not suggesting that we sign 7 players in January. I was referring to the oft quoted comment by the club and some supporters that we can't compete with other clubs at times in the transfer market in general due to the money being asked for players. The concern for me is that LJ far too often gets things wrong in signing players. It appears quantity not quality  is his mantra. Wasting the clubs transfer budget on players who are not given a chance or who sent to Cheltenham. As for expecting miracles I never have. But good signings that improve the team I do expect. Well maybe not anymore.

 

[Der no.2]

(sorry not read all 7 pages)

I listened to LJ’s delivery, in terms of tone, language used and impression portrayed.

imo His delivery to a degree has improved, however his tone is low and whilst some positive words were being used I never quite felt the belief. It seemed like a glass half empty approach.

Sometimes all it takes is to say “Hey I got that wrong, here’s why and here is how I’m  going to put that right”.

I sincerely hope he does improve his ability to get players motivated and believing in him. Learn from the mistakes made and those made by others and gives 100% next season.

 

[steviestevieneville]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

So we have no infrastructure for integrating foreign players into the club, yet have a recruitment process that leads to us signing a significant amount of foreign players?

If that is true then given he is in overall charge of the recruitment strategy and paid an obscene £304k a year, Mark Ashton should be fired with immediate effect.

I did tweet LJ last night asking why, when we decided to start buying foreign players there was nothing in place to help them. Amateurish 

[ScottishRed]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Problem with the QPR situation is the fine would bankrupt the club- once QPR have exhausted all legal options they will have to pay. just a question of how.

A difference too is the rules were different and chopping and changing then- less so now, therefore less room for manoeuvre.

Read about Bolton's sanctions in the post I provided- no wriggle room there.

Mate, all respect for the research you have done, and I really mean that, but effectively they will try to 'punish' the smaller clubs.

One of them, with the resources to pay for talented lawyers, will take them on. One of the things they will cite is a 'big' club flouting the rules - my guess is PSG - then it will all fall apart.

The clubs, at that level, have all the power - even to the level of setting up their own federation - they make that threat, which they would, and FFP will quietly fade away.

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Mate, all respect for the research you have done, and I really mean that, but effectively they will try to 'punish' the smaller clubs.

One of them, with the resources to pay for talented lawyers, will take them on. One of the things they will cite is a 'big' club flouting the rules - my guess is PSG - then it will all fall apart.

The clubs, at that level, have all the power - even to the level of setting up their own federation - they make that threat, which they would, and FFP will quietly fade away.

Thanks. Find it interesting personally, landscape of game is changing- how best can we compete in it etc.

Interesting to watch how it pans out I think- definitely they (UEFA) are quite prone to punishment of smaller clubs or big clubs from mid ranking Leagues.

I feel a decent number of bigger clubs- talking Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern- traditional elite if you like, quite keen on  it because they have the bigger revenue base to begin with, it helps their position. PSG, Man City? Not so much.

I believe, but I might be wrong the EU- and such a case would be heard at that level- are fairly favourable towards FFP so it may not get overturned as we think...

The big question of course a Super League. Depends how many 'traditional' big clubs favourable towards it IMO.

[GrahamC]

Having listened to this again this afternoon a couple of things struck me:

He talked about “less quantity, more quality”, which with a maximum of just 4 out of contract suggests more than a few other squad players would also be moving on.

I think in addition to Engvall, who will clearly be allowed to leave, Hegeler, Taylor & Moore (who was not mentioned at all amongst those said to be doing well out on loan) must be vulnerable.

Secondly there was an interesting answer about us looking for yet another wide player (despite already signing O’Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson & regularly using Brownhill there). He also seemed to admit in it that Paterson might move into the number 10 role to replace Reid.

Thursday’s retained list will also answer the goalkeeper question he fudged, if we give Steele another deal then I cannot see us having 3 senior keepers, my guess is we won’t.

Surprised how much he bigged up Pisano as a leader, and also exaggerated his Serie A experience, not something I have observed myself.

Overall a bit too much David Brent for me, but not quite as awful as some had made out.

[reddoh]

On 14/05/2018 at 20:57, spudski said:

It's the little things like this, that make a huge difference when a player comes in and is trying to settle quickly BBSB.

When I've said in the past that our infrastructure at the Club has been poor, and we have been run like an Amateur outfit, it's this type of thing that fits in that phrase.

It's simple...and like you said, not rocket science.

Our Club pays peanuts for the majority of it's staff...you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

If SL wants to progress, he needs to pay more money, not play at being a football owner.

It doesn't come under FFP...so stop playing around SL.

Trying to do well on the cheap in the infrastructure will get you no where.

And if it were me...get rid of your son at the Club.

 

Jimmy Hill on Ralph Milne ,man red 88 170,000 

[BS4 on Tour...]

10 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Usual load of excuses on why the January transfer window was such a failure. Other clubs face the same problems but find a way to handle it. How long can he trot out this rubbish before even he gets fed up with it. He said we did the best we could. Well if that's the best then heaven help us.

And the ‘best we could’ was 4 wins in the last 22 league games....other clubs had serious injury worries (eg PNE) and the rubbish about ‘fixture congestion’ is just that....we had ONE cup match throughout the whole of November and December....unfortunately those in power at our club don’t credit the fans with much intelligence.....but we can see through the corporate guff that they spout...

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Having listened to this again this afternoon a couple of things struck me:

He talked about “less quantity, more quality”, which with a maximum of just 4 out of contract suggests more than a few other squad players would also be moving on.

I think in addition to Engvall, who will clearly be allowed to leave, Hegeler, Taylor & Moore (who was not mentioned at all amongst those said to be doing well out on loan) must be vulnerable.

Secondly there was an interesting answer about us looking for yet another wide player (despite already signing O’Dowda, Eliasson, Paterson & regularly using Brownhill there). He also seemed to admit in it that Paterson might move into the number 10 role to replace Reid.

Thursday’s retained list will also answer the goalkeeper question he fudged, if we give Steele another deal then I cannot see us having 3 senior keepers, my guess is we won’t.

Surprised how much he bigged up Pisano as a leader, and also exaggerated his Serie A experience, not something I have observed myself.

Overall a bit too much David Brent for me, but not quite as awful as some had made out.

Guess the wide player will be Watkins of Norwich who has been a disaster there but who played under LJ at Oldham.  This is likely to turn out to be another dreadful signing if correct. Norwich fan I know say their fans cannot believe we are prepared to pay good money for him. Oh dear

 

[Ivorguy]

Spudski said earlier that you pay peanuts and get monkeys.  But if you check employee views re Hargreaves Lansdown SL has form on this.  Poor management.

[miser]

7 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Spudski said earlier that you pay peanuts and get monkeys.  But if you check employee views re Hargreaves Lansdown SL has form on this.  Poor management.

HL - hasn't been a succss has it 

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Well I suppose so, but the players available but not getting a game from January onwards seem to consist of Eliason, Engvall, Kelly, Steele, Vyner (if we hadn't sent him on loan), Woodrow and Walsh.  Were they the solution?  Who else was fit in January through to March, but not getting a game?

The problem for me was he didn’t have to play 5 or 6 at a time, just a subtle 1 each game, 2 max....just keep the players fresh....and on their toes.

8 hours ago, Redstreet said:

Gary Rowett after Derby lost last night was honest , straight to the point and clear and detailed as to what contributed to their loss . So refreshingly honest and cliche free . Respect to the guy . The LJ  interview was a consultancy type power point , full of words , no clarity . When LJ was describing scouting for players activities  , he emphasised spreadsheets.  Performance data and video footage . Fair enough , technology now used but actually watching and judging players . Not enough said on that . I thought GT was good but not pressing enough on some issues

Said too many times, Diony being the target instead of Diedhiou....I just don’t buy it.

7 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Lee Johnson did change the team, unless you believe its approach was consistent throughout the season. It was not.

In coaching circles there is a school of though that teams go through cycles to build cohesion.

One of these cycles is forming. Players are gathered, purchased to fit a playing style. What can follow is storming where conflicts arise where players cannot adjust, adapt to the style - Tomlin maybe. Next is norming, then performing where players are at ease within the approach and understand the teams identity.

Two words above feature. Approach and identity. After 2.5 years it should be possible to understand what Lee Johnsons approach and identity is. After 2.5 years Lee Johnson is still at stage one - Forming. His team have achieved. His teams have nosedive, but virtually no supporter can tell you want sort of team Bristol City really are.

And what are (the lesser known) stages 5 and 6 of the Tuckman Model?

5. Adjourning

6. Mourning

You decide who’s doing what!!

[Lack of Action Man]

34 minutes ago, miser said:

HL - hasn't been a succss has it 

It has often been suggested that Peter Hargreaves was/is the dynamic, forward thinking, somewhat cut-throat entity in HL's rise to power.

[NickJ]

14 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

 So no explanation as to why tactically he would take our best ball winning and workmanlike midfielder (Korey Smith) and persist with playing him at right back even though it was evident in many games that we would be over-run in the middle of the park, and that this would reverse when he moved Korey into the midfield for the second half of the game (Man City at home is a prime example). Also, if it wasn’t Korey, then it was our other battling midfielder Josh Brownhill that would have to fill in at right back, again leaving us without that additional bite in midfield.

I can explain that one! It worked really well when LJ came on in midfield in the 2007 play off, and our league player of the season Marv, moves to RB. That worked really well didn’t it?

Blimey I’ve read that several times and none the wiser. 

Isnt it easier to say that our owner hasn’t got s clue about running a football club and our manager hasn’t got a clue about managing a football team? 

[Rich]

14 minutes ago, NickJ said:

I can explain that one! It worked really well when LJ came on in midfield in the 2007 play off, and our league player of the season Marv, moves to RB. That worked really well didn’t it?

Blimey I’ve read that several times and none the wiser. 

Isnt it easier to say that our owner hasn’t got s clue about running a football club and our manager hasn’t got a clue about managing a football team? 

You speak too much sense for this forum Nick.

[The Bard]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 15:38, Kid in the Riot said:

I think it tells its own story to be honest!

Exactly.   Some people just are incapable of making good choices..   Restrict the choice and it unclouds their minds allowing them to make the most of what they have.  

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

Exactly.   Some people just are incapable of making good choices..   Restrict the choice and it unclouds their minds allowing them to make the most of what they have.  

Makes me think that his real strength is as a coach not a manager...

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 hours ago, NickJ said:

 I can explain that one! It worked really well when LJ came on in midfield in the 2007 play off, and our league player of the season Marv, moves to RB. That worked really well didn’t it?

Blimey I’ve read that several times and none the wiser. 

Isnt it easier to say that our owner hasn’t got s clue about running a football club and our manager hasn’t got a clue about managing a football team? 

I personally think the decline that season wasn't so much LJ related- and all declines are relative, but to me it coincided with the move to 4-4-2 from the 4-4-1-1. In the 4-4-1-1, LJ played decently I thought- 4-4-2 though? Not necessarily the one.

It's ironic that GJ was ahead of his time in a sense at this level with the 4-4-1-1 (Noble behind striker)- that flexibility and fluidity undoubtedly helped us. Yet LJ persists with a relatively traditional 4-4-2. Think in the right system and with the right players around him, LJ performed a useful role tbh. On the bench, we had Weale, Vasko, Johnson, Sproule, Byfield. LJ for Orr was the wrong sub, but at the same time who do we put on? Not so easy- none are/were a natural RB.

[Ska Junkie]

21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Problem with the QPR situation is the fine would bankrupt the club- once QPR have exhausted all legal options they will have to pay. just a question of how.

A difference too is the rules were different and chopping and changing then- less so now, therefore less room for manoeuvre.

Read about Bolton's sanctions in the post I provided- no wriggle room there.

Whilst I appreciate what you say about the repercussions for QPR, they spent the money, knowing the rules and had an attitude of 'we're Premier league so it doesn't apply to us anymore'. Surely, the fines / punishment handed out to Bolton nearly crippled them so why should QPR be treated any differently?

They must have had that fine hanging over them for a good few years now yet still pay money for players. Hammer them for breaking the rules and maybe some clubs might have a tad more respect for those rules.

They can't have it both ways with all possible respect but they appear to be doing just that at the moment.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

Whilst I appreciate what you say about the repercussions for QPR, they spent the money, knowing the rules and had an attitude of 'we're Premier league so it doesn't apply to us anymore'. Surely, the fines / punishment handed out to Bolton nearly crippled them so why should QPR be treated any differently?

They must have had that fine hanging over them for a good few years now yet still pay money for players. Hammer them for breaking the rules and maybe some clubs might have a tad more respect for those rules.

They can't have it both ways with all possible respect but they appear to be doing just that at the moment.

I think they will get clobbered by it once all legal options exhausted yes.

If they don't have £40m to pay though, the only real solution is say paid over x years- e.g. it would knock £4m out of their budget for a decade- but they should pay up in full IMO.

[Ska Junkie]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think they will get clobbered by it once all legal options exhausted yes.

If they don't have £40m to pay though, the only real solution is say paid over x years- e.g. it would knock £4m out of their budget for a decade- but they should pay up in full IMO.

I agree with that Mr P. Nothing against the R's but that would hurt them for a long time and may stop others doing the same thing in the future. There's no point having rules if they aren't enforced after all.