Ashton gate halt and the Portishead rail line (Merged)

[Dr Balls]

53 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Would many people get on and off at Pill ?

Not as many as would use a station at Ashton Gate, that’s for sure. Given the plans for the development on the Wickes site, surely SL would be pushing for that as part of the line re-opening, even if BS (or whichever other holding company) needs to part fund it.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

Would many people get on and off at Pill ?

 

29 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Not as many as would use a station at Ashton Gate, that’s for sure. Given the plans for the development on the Wickes site, surely SL would be pushing for that as part of the line re-opening, even if BS (or whichever other holding company) needs to part fund it.

Well judging by the X4 which stops at multiple stops in Pill on its way into the centre, yes it would be a popular stop. Also as it currently has the nearest Post Office to Portishead, (another project our new Labour Councillor is pursuing) I am sure there would be a few getting on and off there during the week. 

[TV Tom]

32 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Not as many as would use a station at Ashton Gate, that’s for sure. Given the plans for the development on the Wickes site, surely SL would be pushing for that as part of the line re-opening, even if BS (or whichever other holding company) needs to part fund it.

With all the building work and events that go on at AG it would make sense to re-open.

[Philly The Kid]

My understanding is that there are planning applications for housing estates in the Pill/Easton in Gordano locale which would significantly expand the population in this area. So by definition, there is bound to be an uptake in usage of the line simply because it then makes these areas part of the commuter belt into Bristol (and, being selfish, the rise in house prices that goes with it).

[TV Tom]

27 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

 

Well judging by the X4 which stops at multiple stops in Pill on its way into the centre, yes it would be a popular stop. Also as it currently has the nearest Post Office to Portishead, (another project our new Labour Councillor is pursuing) I am sure there would be a few getting on and off there during the week. 

Fair enough, can’t say I know Pill that well other than sneaking into the nurse’s accommodation when my Mrs was doing her nurse training at Ham Green which was many moons ago

[Phantom]

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Not as many as would use a station at Ashton Gate, that’s for sure. Given the plans for the development on the Wickes site, surely SL would be pushing for that as part of the line re-opening, even if BS (or whichever other holding company) needs to part fund it.

Will that many people really use the Ashton Gate station?

It won't be open on matchdays / events is there that much business in the area to warrant a stop?

SL offered to pay for it, but outside sources aren't able to pay for stations

[Never to the dark side]

Just seen that transport authority's in the state of Victoria in Australia,

will be providing FREE transport to the Tennis tournament taking place from the 12(this coming early hours of Monday morning) to the 26 January

If your in possession of tournament ticket.

Shame that WECA cannot provide something similar, or even discounted tickets to Parson Street train station on sporting day events

[Bowlegchicken]

Brighton do it if you got a match ticket 

[frenchred]

4 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

Just seen that transport authority's in the state of Victoria in Australia,

will be providing FREE transport to the Tennis tournament taking place from the 12(this coming early hours of Monday morning) to the 26 January

If your in possession of tournament ticket.

Shame that WECA cannot provide something similar, or even discounted tickets to Parson Street train station on sporting day events

Most french clubs do this for all home matches!

[italian dave]

Luxembourg does it all the time, everywhere, for everyone, and for all public transport. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

43 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Luxembourg does it all the time, everywhere, for everyone, and for all public transport. 

Indeed.

Public transport is entirely free for residents.

[italian dave]

13 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Indeed.

Public transport is entirely free for residents.

It’s free for visitors too, isn’t it?

I have used it!

I know there’s an issue with cross border journeys (nowhere being very far from a border there!) but even those are free for the Luxembourg section aren’t they? 

[PHILINFRANCE]

30 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s free for visitors too, isn’t it?

I have used it!

I know there’s an issue with cross border journeys (nowhere being very far from a border there!) but even those are free for the Luxembourg section aren’t they? 

I have just checked, and you are correct.

It was certainly only available for residents initially, but the rule appears to have been extended and, in any event, there are apparently never any checks.

[BS3_RED]

For me, public transport is one of the biggest drivers you can have for the economy. It makes sence to have an integrated transport plan. 

Its one  of the few things I would be happy for any government to borrow money or raise taxes for. 

The positive effect it can also have on a community can never be understated. 

They need to get this done.

[BS3_RED]

3 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

For me, public transport is one of the biggest drivers you can have for the economy. It makes sence to have an integrated transport plan. 

Its one  of the few things I would be happy for any government to borrow money or raise taxes for. 

The positive effect it can also have on a community can never be understated. 

They need to get this done.

That should have said overstated. 

[archie andrews]

4 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Indeed.

Public transport is entirely free for residents.

Corrrr.....wonder what their taxes are!.....

[SecretSam]

On 23/12/2024 at 11:15, TV Tom said:

Would many people get on and off at Pill ?

If they did, Ham Green would want a station, too, they won't want to mix with the riff-raff 

On 11/10/2024 at 21:55, Nuno Gomes said:

Cycled to Portishead today along the path that parallels (and sometimes goes over) the railway track.  I was surprised about the amount of preparatory work that has already been undertaken.  A substantial portion of the track is now clearly visible and clear of vegetation etc.  Let’s hope it’s not been wasted. 

I've ridden that path, the track looks - to my untrained eyes - not far off usable. I mean, it's not an inter-city job, but for one of those bus-on-rails affairs it would work fine. There's a couple of areas where they need to reinstate tracks - eg a bit of the cycle path - but other than that, it's surprisingly 'present'.

I imagine the big issues aren't the track, rather the signalling, safety gear, and - of course - stations. But it would really be a big boost to that area. 

Just need to sort out mass transit to the rest of Bristol. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

29 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Corrrr.....wonder what their taxes are!.....

Surprisingly, they are not that high.

I believe income taxes are lower than in the UK, and I can assure you that the tax on petrol, alcohol and coffee (our usual purchases on our very regular visits) is extremely low.

I paid the equivalent of £1.20/litre for petrol when I was last there a few weeks ago.

 

[Port Said Red]

30 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Surprisingly, they are not that high.

I believe income taxes are lower than in the UK, and I can assure you that the tax on petrol, alcohol and coffee (our usual purchases on our very regular visits) is extremely low.

I paid the equivalent of £1.20/litre for petrol when I was last there a few weeks ago.

 

They don't need things like armed forces or nuclear weapons (I doubt we need the latter either), but they also don't have public healthcare, so some of the money you save on income tax has to be used for compulsory health insurance. 

[Hxj]

2 hours ago, archie andrews said:

Corrrr.....wonder what their taxes are!.....

On personal income surprisingly high given the reputation.  

 

[pillred]

Having seen the latest economic figures, borrowing costs at their highest in 17 years, a black hole of 22 billion, pound slumping etc etc I have grave doubts about this project, they will or have already decided there are better things to spend any available money on than a local railway line in the West country, we are always at the back of the queue for anything.

Edited January 9 by pillred

[italian dave]

On 23/12/2024 at 13:11, Philly The Kid said:

My understanding is that there are planning applications for housing estates in the Pill/Easton in Gordano locale which would significantly expand the population in this area. So by definition, there is bound to be an uptake in usage of the line simply because it then makes these areas part of the commuter belt into Bristol (and, being selfish, the rise in house prices that goes with it).

Sadly, if population growth and potential demand had any bearing at all on the outcome then it would have been completed years ago. Portishead has doubled in size since the campaign for the railway started. 

[italian dave]

This is the latest update from the Portishead Railway Group campaigners.

December 2024:

The Treasury spending review, of which the Portishead & Pill line reopening is one small part, is still under way and will continue until March or April next year.

Update from PRG: PRG has been consulting carefully with many sources. The Public Petition, presented in Parliament in September by Sadik al Hassan MP, was very well and widely received in Whitehall. The mood in Whitehall about reopening the Portishead line is still positive. The final decision will be a financial one about spending across the whole of government. The Portishead line will be just a tiny part of that. This could be good or bad news. No one, including our MP, will know what that decision is until the Treasury review outcome is made public.

The reopening project is still live and work by the MetroWest team is continuing. The budget has been reduced (to an undisclosed figure) with the aim of delivering a minimum specification solution. This means things like platforms will be designed for 5-car trains, but built to accommodate 3-car trains initially. If funding is secured, the reopened line will still have two stations – Pill and Portishead – as intended. There is much discussion about why the cost of repairing existing bridges and tunnels along the line should be borne by the Reopening project, rather than by Network Rail's maintenance budget for the existing freight line.

This is the only railway reopening project in the country that is currently under way and at an advanced stage of development. A positive decision on funding next Spring would allow the project to be completed before the next General Election in 2029.

[frenchred]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

This is the latest update from the Portishead Railway Group campaigners.

 

December 2024:

The Treasury spending review, of which the Portishead & Pill line reopening is one small part, is still under way and will continue until March or April next year.

Update from PRG: PRG has been consulting carefully with many sources. The Public Petition, presented in Parliament in September by Sadik al Hassan MP, was very well and widely received in Whitehall. The mood in Whitehall about reopening the Portishead line is still positive. The final decision will be a financial one about spending across the whole of government. The Portishead line will be just a tiny part of that. This could be good or bad news. No one, including our MP, will know what that decision is until the Treasury review outcome is made public.

The reopening project is still live and work by the MetroWest team is continuing. The budget has been reduced (to an undisclosed figure) with the aim of delivering a minimum specification solution. This means things like platforms will be designed for 5-car trains, but built to accommodate 3-car trains initially. If funding is secured, the reopened line will still have two stations – Pill and Portishead – as intended. There is much discussion about why the cost of repairing existing bridges and tunnels along the line should be borne by the Reopening project, rather than by Network Rail's maintenance budget for the existing freight line.

This is the only railway reopening project in the country that is currently under way and at an advanced stage of development. A positive decision on funding next Spring would allow the project to be completed before the next General Election in 2029.

I believe this will never happen

Ive lived in portishead for the last 15 years and it's never been anymore than a pipe dream during that time. The amount of money that has already been wasted is mind boggling!

I've never understood why they just didn't do a light railway or tram that would have slashed costs

[Tinmans Love Child]

7 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

For me, public transport is one of the biggest drivers you can have for the economy. It makes sence to have an integrated transport plan. 

Its one  of the few things I would be happy for any government to borrow money or raise taxes for. 

The positive effect it can also have on a community can never be understated. 

They need to get this done.

Go to Italy and the national train service is amazing and very cheap, you can get everywhere easily.

By privatising our trains back in the 70's we have ultimately increased costs to the customer and reduced the quality of service.  

Privatising only makes sense if you are going to open up competition to drive down prices and increase quality, but with the trains they only have one company running services on each line so there is no competition! Plus the companies don't own their own tracks rail track so, so they can't even take ownership of their own tracks!  
 

Terrible decision 

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 hours ago, Hxj said:

On personal income surprisingly high given the reputation.  

 

On the contrary, at least compared to France.

Indirect taxation, however, is certainly high, and property prices are astronomical - the corollary being that, e.g. restaurant prices, are far higher than in France.

 

[pillred]

7 hours ago, frenchred said:

I believe this will never happen

Ive lived in portishead for the last 15 years and it's never been anymore than a pipe dream during that time. The amount of money that has already been wasted is mind boggling!

I've never understood why they just didn't do a light railway or tram that would have slashed costs

My idea for a park-and-train at Portbury where they use the existing line would be a good compromise. ( I know it would need some upgrading.) A platform similar to the one at the park-and-ride in Shirehampton could easily be built. This would give easy access to people at Pill Portishead and Portbury, and if that proves popular, a track extension to Portishead could be added later.

Edited Friday at 00:48 by pillred

[James54De]

7 minutes ago, pillred said:

My idea for a park-and-train at Portbury where they use the existing line would be a good compromise. A platform similar to the one at the park-and-ride in Shirehampton could easily be built, and if that proves popular, a track extension to Portishead could be added later.

The main reason for the line is to connect Portishead, a town of 30,000 and growing, to Bristol. To remove Portishead from the line would mean there would be absolutely no political or financial support for the project. 

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, James54De said:

The main reason for the line is to connect Portishead, a town of 30,000 and growing, to Bristol. To remove Portishead from the line would mean there would be absolutely no political or financial support for the project. 

It's only a short hop from Portishead to Portbury, so it would be massively cheaper and would circumvent the funding issue. As I stated, in the future, the line could be extended into Portishead.

[REDOXO]

7 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Go to Italy and the national train service is amazing and very cheap, you can get everywhere easily.

By privatising our trains back in the 70's we have ultimately increased costs to the customer and reduced the quality of service.  

Privatising only makes sense if you are going to open up competition to drive down prices and increase quality, but with the trains they only have one company running services on each line so there is no competition! Plus the companies don't own their own tracks rail track so, so they can't even take ownership of their own tracks!  
 

Terrible decision 

The privatisation of British Rail was the process by which ownership and operation of the railways of Great Britain passed from government control into private hands. Begun in 1994, the process was largely completed by 1997. The deregulation of the industry was in part motivated by the enactment of EU Directive 91/440 in 1991, which aimed to create a more efficient railway network by creating greater competition.^[1]

[Port Said Red]

6 hours ago, pillred said:

It's only a short hop from Portishead to Portbury, so it would be massively cheaper and would circumvent the funding issue. As I stated, in the future, the line could be extended into Portishead.

The problem with that from a Portishead perspective, is that it still means a lot of traffic on what is basically the only road in and out of town (Portbury Hundred). The main advantage of the line in my view was to relieve that burden.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

The problem with that from a Portishead perspective, is that it still means a lot of traffic on what is basically the only road in and out of town (Portbury Hundred). The main advantage of the line in my view was to relieve that burden.

It was a compromise, I thought with the costs rising it could keep at least some of the project viable, the problem we now have moving forward is the new WFH culture that has sprung up post-pandemic will there be enough demand in the future for commuting into the office?

[italian dave]

8 hours ago, pillred said:

It's only a short hop from Portishead to Portbury, so it would be massively cheaper and would circumvent the funding issue. As I stated, in the future, the line could be extended into Portishead.

But it’s not much more of a ‘hop’ to Shirehampton P&R, or to Nailsea & Blackwell. But for any of them you have to get in the car. And once you’re in the car a) you’re taking up road space somewhere, and b) you might as well stay in the car and go the whole way.

Plus, can you imagine if that J19 junction roundabout was made any busier by putting a P&R on it. It barely copes with everything it has to serve now: Bristol, Portishead, the M5, the docks and Gordano services! 

[pillred]

14 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But it’s not much more of a ‘hop’ to Shirehampton P&R, or to Nailsea & Blackwell. But for any of them you have to get in the car. And once you’re in the car a) you’re taking up road space somewhere, and b) you might as well stay in the car and go the whole way.

Plus, can you imagine if that J19 junction roundabout was made any busier by putting a P&R on it. It barely copes with everything it has to serve now: Bristol, Portishead, the M5, the docks and Gordano services! 

The park and rides are very popular at Shire and Ashton so people obviously use them and don't go all the way, I thought something similar at Portbury might work, it's also quite a long way extra from Portishead to Shire P&R and the Portbury Hundred wouldn't be any busier than it is now as the same people using it to travel to Bristol would be using it to go to the Park and train at Portbury, I suppose you would get a bit more traffic on the Gordano roundabout with people from Pill and Easton in Gordano accessing the facility but not much it would also save on the cost of building a station at Pill. Surely it would be better than cancelling the project because of the overall cost.

Edited Friday at 09:55 by pillred

[italian dave]

16 hours ago, frenchred said:

I believe this will never happen

Ive lived in portishead for the last 15 years and it's never been anymore than a pipe dream during that time. The amount of money that has already been wasted is mind boggling!

I've never understood why they just didn't do a light railway or tram that would have slashed costs

I share your pessimism, I’m afraid.

I’ve been here more than 35 years, and it’s been talked about most of that time. For most of that time, Mrs ID and I have commuted into Bristol for work: often both of us. At least one of us would have certainly used the train if it had been available, and we’d more than likely have had only one car for all that time, not two.

Retired now….so it’s purely academic.

You’re right: the money wasted on planning and feasibility studies and all the rest has been ludicrous. We could have built the thing and had it running years ago for a small proportion of the costs incurred in getting nowhere. I posted earlier in this thread about the contrast between the UK spending £800m talking about a Thames tunnel that’s still not been built and the Norwegians spending £140m to just get on and build the longest road tunnel in the world. 

[italian dave]

11 minutes ago, pillred said:

The park and rides are very popular at Shire and Ashton so people obviously use them and don't go all the way, I thought something similar at Portbury might work, it's also quite a long way extra from Portishead to Shire P&R and the Portbury Hundred wouldn't be any busier than it is now as the same people using it to travel to Bristol would be using it to go to the Park and train at Portbury, I suppose you would get a bit more traffic on the Gordano roundabout with people from Pill and Easton in Gordano accessing the facility but not much.

Sure, and I don’t doubt it would have takers. And I know that the people using the P&Rs include people from Portishead already. But it just seems like a compromise, instead of really addressing the issue. It still leaves people in Portishead (and Pill) needing a car to get into and drive as part of their journey.

Theres a link here with the Luxembourg discussion. One of the reasons they introduced free public transport is that they have one of the highest rates of car ownership and car use in Europe. And they realised that if you want to affect that then you have to do something serious and significant, not just tinker about at the edges.

And, I really do think it would be the straw that breaks the J19 back. It wouldn’t just be people from Pill and EiG: put a P&R there and you get people coming off the M5 from farther afield to use it too. I think it’s widely acknowledged that the junction has too much on it already - and there are times when it gets gridlocked - and getting out of the docks or the services becomes next to impossible! 

[pillred]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Sure, and I don’t doubt it would have takers. And I know that the people using the P&Rs include people from Portishead already. But it just seems like a compromise, instead of really addressing the issue. It still leaves people in Portishead (and Pill) needing a car to get into and drive as part of their journey.

Theres a link here with the Luxembourg discussion. One of the reasons they introduced free public transport is that they have one of the highest rates of car ownership and car use in Europe. And they realised that if you want to affect that then you have to do something serious and significant, not just tinker about at the edges.

And, I really do think it would be the straw that breaks the J19 back. It wouldn’t just be people from Pill and EiG: put a P&R there and you get people coming off the M5 from farther afield to use it too. I think it’s widely acknowledged that the junction has too much on it already - and there are times when it gets gridlocked - and getting out of the docks or the services becomes next to impossible! 

From June to mid-Sept it pretty much becomes a no-go area for me, especially on Fridays and Saturdays so I know what you mean, my idea was just a compromise which I know is not what the people of Portishead or Pill for that matter wanted. 

Edited Friday at 10:09 by pillred

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

I share your pessimism, I’m afraid.

I’ve been here more than 35 years, and it’s been talked about most of that time. For most of that time, Mrs ID and I have commuted into Bristol for work: often both of us. At least one of us would have certainly used the train if it had been available, and we’d more than likely have had only one car for all that time, not two.

Retired now….so it’s purely academic.

You’re right: the money wasted on planning and feasibility studies and all the rest has been ludicrous. We could have built the thing and had it running years ago for a small proportion of the costs incurred in getting nowhere. I posted earlier in this thread about the contrast between the UK spending £800m talking about a Thames tunnel that’s still not been built and the Norwegians spending £140m to just get on and build the longest road tunnel in the world. 

Exactly the same situation for me mate

[fgrsimon]

17 hours ago, italian dave said:

I share your pessimism, I’m afraid.

I’ve been here more than 35 years, and it’s been talked about most of that time. For most of that time, Mrs ID and I have commuted into Bristol for work: often both of us. At least one of us would have certainly used the train if it had been available, and we’d more than likely have had only one car for all that time, not two.

Retired now….so it’s purely academic.

You’re right: the money wasted on planning and feasibility studies and all the rest has been ludicrous. We could have built the thing and had it running years ago for a small proportion of the costs incurred in getting nowhere. I posted earlier in this thread about the contrast between the UK spending £800m talking about a Thames tunnel that’s still not been built and the Norwegians spending £140m to just get on and build the longest road tunnel in the world. 

Yeah I mean the Swiss have built the longest tunnel in the world, on budget and on time and to HSR standards, in the time the Portishead re-opening has been mooted. 

The track was already there albeit mothballed from Pill to Portishead and the rest of the track from Parsons St is, and always has been, in daily use. The Swiss would have had it back in use in 12 months easily

I just don't understand how we can make such a bollocks of rail infrastructure projects every time! Witness the Northumberland Line reopening going miles over budget and missing stations.

Even Wales and Scotland have managed several reopenings successfully in the last couple of decades. The re-opened (this year) Methil branch in Scotland also mothballed, was done in around 5 years start to finish. 

The only hope for Portishead is that so much money has already been squandered that it would be too embarrassing to can it now. Either that or hand itvover to a heritage railway.

[winsaw]

6 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Yeah I mean the Swiss have built the longest tunnel in the world, on budget and on time and to HSR standards, in the time the Portishead re-opening has been mooted. 

The track was already there albeit mothballed from Pill to Portishead and the rest of the track from Parsons St is, and always has been, in daily use. The Swiss would have had it back in use in 12 months easily

I just don't understand how we can make such a bollocks of rail infrastructure projects every time! Witness the Northumberland Line reopening going miles over budget and missing stations.

Even Wales and Scotland have managed several reopenings successfully in the last couple of decades. The re-opened (this year) Methil branch in Scotland also mothballed, was done in around 5 years start to finish. 

The only hope for Portishead is that so much money has already been squandered that it would be too embarrassing to can it now. Either that or hand itvover to a heritage railway.

The Okehampton line was reopened on time and on budget so England cam get it right sometimes, but that had one council that lead the project very well, i think the twi council involved in the portishead line make it more difficult 

The track that's there at the moment is not in daily use, no traffic from the docks at the moment, believe it has one test train a month to check the track is ok, but it's got a much reduced speed limit on it, pretty sure it would all need to be relayed before it can reopen to passenger,

The mothballed section will need to be completely rebuilt,

[fgrsimon]

Yeah I knew about Okehampton but also very little needed to be done there as they were already running passenger trains on summer weekends beforehand.

Didn't realise there were no trains running to Portbury at the moment. Very sad and worrying that a first class dock connection is providing no rail traffic. I travelled on a railtour up there admittedly a fair few years ago and the track was good then. Used to be used for cars and biomass IIRC.

I don't think anything too much would need doing on the Parsons St - Pill trackwork. I think they were only talking about 45mph max for Portishead branch anyway. It was mentioned though that some infrastructure upgrades were needed (bridges, walls etc) and whether Network Rail should be funding it as it's existing 'live' part of the network.

[fgrsimon]

21 minutes ago, fgrsimon said:

Yeah I knew about Okehampton but also very little needed to be done there as they were already running passenger trains on summer weekends beforehand.

Didn't realise there were no trains running to Portbury at the moment. Very sad and worrying that a first class dock connection is providing no rail traffic. I travelled on a railtour up there admittedly a fair few years ago and the track was good then. Used to be used for cars and biomass IIRC.

I don't think anything too much would need doing on the Parsons St - Pill trackwork. I think they were only talking about 45mph max for Portishead branch anyway. It was mentioned though that some infrastructure upgrades were needed (bridges, walls etc) and whether Network Rail should be funding it as it's existing 'live' part of the network.

Some good news at least, there was a full freight train up to Portbury at least as late as 19/07/2024, so that track must be pretty good to support 2*Class 66 at 127t each.

 

[Simez]

There’s been a Portbury to Margam train conveying steel running this week. I’ve certainly seen in three days.